eXilition

[bwtmc]

I wouldn't call Forest a loser, I don't think he has ever made an effort to challenge eXi as a player/officer/hc.

[JonnyBGood]

Originally Posted by ATRO

JBG i often find your posts lighting up my day with your wit , but its a shame you cant offer an unbiased view as a mod , its a shame you dont apply the threats to "certain" members of your ally who constantly brag of their exploits and how great they are.

I'm not actually seriously going to ban him, that'd just be silly. Also who from my alliance goes around posting about how great they are?

[Forest]

Originally Posted by JonnyBGood

If you ever spout out such pretentious gibberish again I will ban you straight out to remove the irritation of possibly reading such crap in the future. Next time you post please try and leave out any references to how great you are.

Mine was a direct response to a spam response by a mod to a detailed post i made on a different subject.

If anything, it should be the mod in question who should be getting a ticking off as if he was a 5 year old and not me.

[Forest]

oh I have, i just get owned each time

[ATRO]

Originally Posted by JonnyBGood

I'm not actually seriously going to ban him, that'd just be silly. Also who from my alliance goes around posting about how great they are?

The reason i didnt name the person concerned in my original post is due to the fact im not into blackening names, my mistake if i took your threat serious just the general tone of your reply was at best condescending.

[JonnyBGood]

Originally Posted by ATRO

The reason i didnt name the person concerned in my original post is due to the fact im not into blackening names, my mistake if i took your threat serious just the general tone of your reply was at best condescending.

It's jerome isn't it?

[Forest]

Originally Posted by lokken

OK proper response: So 1up knew they were going to win when they lost to Exi and Asc?

FFS stunning logic.

Ok seeing as it appears you added this after (and i got told off for making a spam reply to a psam reply).

It is not a knowledge that they are going to win. It is a belief.

It is a belief that going into a round, exi/1up expect to win.
It is that belief that carries an alliance to the next level.
It is that belief that has the other alliances in the game beaten befoe the round even stands.

I apoligise for not making that clear, it seemed clear enough to me when I wrote the original post.

[Forest]

Oh well, that is one interesting thread that the mods have managed to nicely derailed.

[JonnyBGood]

Team high-five!

[lokken]

Originally Posted by Forest

Ok seeing as it appears you added this after (and i got told off for making a spam reply to a psam reply).

It is not a knowledge that they are going to win. It is a belief.

It is a belief that going into a round, exi/1up expect to win.
It is that belief that carries an alliance to the next level.
It is that belief that has the other alliances in the game beaten befoe the round even stands.

I apoligise for not making that clear, it seemed clear enough to me when I wrote the original post.

OK, now we've got you backtracking into some realistic territory.

As for what ND believe, was Icarus a good friend of yours? We're a realistic bunch, simply cos we don't have the mentalists required that 1up/Ex possess.

Now look here - we were trying to win this one - we were pulling away from ex. In the end 4 or 5 alliances (or should I say what's left of them) decided to put a stop to it. Are you suggesting that we can predict a merger out of our crystal ball and somehow change politics to stop ex from winning regardless of the consequences to ND? We got our lead by playing conservatively and intelligently after when quite honestly, I thought we were going down the swanny.

All this stuff about belief is all cobblers, we get ND members online to do the job. It's down to how well you play and how good your politics are and when you aren't the best alliance you need a bit of help. If other alliances appear to blindly want you dead, well there's nought you can do about it. There's only one thing ND can do - play to it's best and let the HC do the rest politically. Now in all honesty, if FO/ToF/VsN are attacking ND - how do you suppose eX can be stopped?

So like i've said to others - if you can formulate a realistic plan for ND to defeat ex, angels + block, omen plus a whole random stack of other incoming a few weeks ago and end up with ND the winning the round, please dignify us with your genius. You suggest we should have bitten the bullet and hit exi - this would have got us killed by an angels block with near certainty. People say ND shouldn't play one way - so which way should they play exactly? One that's concurrent with your favoured outcome, or with their own? I'm not sure they coincide.

[Treveler]

Here's an idea. FO (wtf is FO btw) and ND - team up on exil and let the ally that does that best get the win. Ohh wait, sorry, that makes sense. How stupid of me.

I got a penny here saying you will do something else, like ganging up on the peniz alliance or something.

Cowardice and incompetence is a bad combo.

[pig]

The words

"I told you so" spring to mind

lol

[Forest]

Originally Posted by lokken

OK, now we've got you backtracking into some realistic territory.

As for what ND believe, was Icarus a good friend of yours?

Never heard of him.

Originally Posted by lokken

We're a realistic bunch, simply cos we don't have the mentalists required that 1up/Ex possess.

You again miss my point. You NEED them mentalists.
In poker, if I dont believe I am going to win when I sit down, I am going to lose all my money.
In football, when a team is in a bad run, they start believing they cant win. then they dont. Just look at Crouch. He couldnt score to save his life, and he didnt believe a goal was coming. yet when a goal came, he couldnt stop scoring. He had that belief. If you dont ahve the belief you can win, you are beat before you start.

Originally Posted by lokken

Now look here - we were trying to win this one - we were pulling away from ex. In the end 4 or 5 alliances (or should I say what's left of them) decided to put a stop to it. Are you suggesting that we can predict a merger out of our crystal ball and somehow change politics to stop ex from winning regardless of the consequences to ND? We got our lead by playing conservatively and intelligently after when quite honestly, I thought we were going down the swanny.

What option did they have? If they kept hitting exi, then ND would of won easily. They had to hit you to rein you in.
The merger you could do nothing about, and as far as I am concerned it is disgraceful behaviour form two of the top alliances.

Originally Posted by lokken

All this stuff about belief is all cobblers, we get ND members online to do the job. It's down to how well you play and how good your politics are and when you aren't the best alliance you need a bit of help. If other alliances appear to blindly want you dead, well there's nought you can do about it. There's only one thing ND can do - play to it's best and let the HC do the rest politically. Now in all honesty, if FO/ToF/VsN are attacking ND - how do you suppose eX can be stopped?

Thats not strictly true though, is it? I was happy to take full military control of Angels, and provide you with sufficient guarentee that Angels and ND would continue to hit exi until a predetermined amount of score was between exi and the 2nd place alliance.

Your HC stated catagorically to me that they believed that if they hit Exi, then Exi would hit ND. They believed that ND would then fall. See what belief can do?

Originally Posted by lokken

So like i've said to others - if you can formulate a realistic plan for ND to defeat ex, angels + block, omen plus a whole random stack of other incoming a few weeks ago and end up with ND the winning the round, please dignify us with your genius. You suggest we should have bitten the bullet and hit exi - this would have got us killed by an angels block with near certainty. People say ND shouldn't play one way - so which way should they play exactly? One that's concurrent with your favoured outcome, or with their own? I'm not sure they coincide.

If ND and Angels hit Exi, then Exi would of fallen.
Then Angels and ND would of gone to war.

Now, your belief was that ND/Omen would get beat by Angels/Vsn/Tof. That is why that path wasnt followed.

Again, your belief that you werent good enough to win is what actually stopped you winning.

You may of beat angels. Or you may of lost. But either way, you would of had a chance of winning.

When you didnt hit exi alongsode angels, you guarenteed yourself a loss. Because at some point in the round, Exi would hit you to pull your score back, and angels would of hit you out of the same spite to stop you winning, as you showed in not going to war with exi.

You DID have options, but as an alliance you didnt take those options seriously.

[lokken]

Originally Posted by Treveler

Here's an idea. FO (wtf is FO btw) and ND - team up on exil and let the ally that does that best get the win. Ohh wait, sorry, that makes sense. How stupid of me.

I got a penny here saying you will do something else, like ganging up on the peniz alliance or something.

Cowardice and incompetence is a bad combo.

Read what I posted. I didn't ask for a solution for now. I asked for one where we were weeks ago.

[Cannon_Fodder]

Originally Posted by JonnyBGood

It's jerome isn't it?

It's true, he could get blacker.

[voodoo]

forest, its good that u think u matter so much
there is at least one person that thinks highly of u(urself).

as for the rest, there were 3 threads about omen merging with angels. why not one about exi having closed the gap, and proving certail ppl were right since roundstart.
whose fault it is? thats a shared lack of interest/initiative all the other alliances have.


oh and stoom, what does my vac mode have to do with exi merging and closing the gap?
and stop beating about the bush. exi fencesat most of the round, and when its over, in the speech, im sure were all gonna hear about how brave and courageous they were in their fights. question is: which fights? random gal raids and hitting fat f-crew planets when all anti fi/co is gathered at wakey's FC ? just one example, im thinking that if ppl try, they can come up with more

[Forest]

hehe voodoo

my point was, that the thread is interesting and proper discussion was happening (until mods derailed it).

Dont nmake a decent post and the end with 'anyway this is a pointless post' cause that just undermines everything you previously have written.

[qebab]

Originally Posted by Forest

Thats not strictly true though, is it? I was happy to take full military control of Angels, and provide you with sufficient guarentee that Angels and ND would continue to hit exi until a predetermined amount of score was between exi and the 2nd place alliance.

This had me baffled. At what point were you able to take full military control of Angels? I've been in HC channels all round, and I've heard nothing about anything of the like. _Nothing at all_.

While this doesn't necessarily mean that what you are saying is untrue, I consider it highly unlikely at best.

[NitinA]

Nihilium WoW Gaming Community -- they play with eXilition WoW. Hopefully one day a full-fledged Planetarion Alliance.

[lizardking]

Originally Posted by qebab

This had me baffled. At what point were you able to take full military control of Angels? I've been in HC channels all round, and I've heard nothing about anything of the like. _Nothing at all_.

Call it divine intervention.

[Treveler]

Originally Posted by lokken

Read what I posted. I didn't ask for a solution for now. I asked for one where we were weeks ago.

Its simple. Without Exil being taken out Exil will win or did you actually think you were about to win 2-3 days ago?

So with Exil flying safe than what to do? Yeah nap Exil. Brilliant. Much like when you attacked the losing side in r15 or whatever round it was when you desperatly needed to enlongate the war.

[NitinA]

Originally Posted by voodoo

and stop beating about the bush. exi fencesat most of the round, and when its over, in the speech, im sure were all gonna hear about how brave and courageous they were in their fights. question is: which fights? random gal raids and hitting fat f-crew planets when all anti fi/co is gathered at wakey's FC ? just one example, im thinking that if ppl try, they can come up with more

We picked our fights. Every alliance that went hostile and attacked us, we returned fire. We stated at the start of the round that our politics were going to be different this round--not the "proactive" political style of eXilition past.

[qebab]

It was indeed round 15, Trev. The situation this round is so similar that it is scaring.

[Forest]

Originally Posted by qebab

This had me baffled. At what point were you able to take full military control of Angels? I've been in HC channels all round, and I've heard nothing about anything of the like. _Nothing at all_.

While this doesn't necessarily mean that what you are saying is untrue, I consider it highly unlikely at best.

It is not untrue.

Whilst i doubt it was ever discussed at hc level formally, it was discussed that I come and get the job done.
A combination of my history within angels and my friends within angles hc made it a pretty much certainty.

Whilst i will not say at this time which players i spoke with, i have never lied on the forums and am not gonna start doing so now.

[pig]

Originally Posted by voodoo

as for the rest, there were 3 threads about omen merging with angels. why not one about exi having closed the gap

Because I and a couple of others banged on about it since pre round, tickstart and throughout the round. If HC at the end of the day as a collective don't do anything about it then what can be done? This feud between Angels and ND (which appears to have more anger on the angels side) is pathetic. Round 15 Angels or ND could of prevented an eXilition win. Likewise this round they could of done so. However once again egos are in the way of doing anything sensible and allowing one of the two groups of alliances who deserve to win it, win.

If I was an ND HC, I would be contacting Omen/Angels HC, likewise if I was Omen/Angels I would contact ND HC.

Immediatly stop all targetting. Call a NAP on a planets and just target eXilition. Whoever roids them the most effectively wins the round. Seems fair to me.

[Treveler]

"Immediatly stop all targetting. Call a NAP on a planets and just target eXilition. Whoever roids them the most effectively wins the round. Seems fair to me."

That make sense Pig. Stop posting on AD.

[Kargool]

Originally Posted by pig

If I was an ND HC, I would be contacting Omen/Angels HC, likewise if I was Omen/Angels I would contact ND HC.

Immediatly stop all targetting. Call a NAP on a planets and just target eXilition. Whoever roids them the most effectively wins the round. Seems fair to me.

It would be lovely to get some more action throughout the round. But i dont think it will happen.

[Treveler]

Originally Posted by qebab

It was indeed round 15, Trev. The situation this round is so similar that it is scaring.

Thats the scary part. The same ppl makes the same vital ****ups round after round.

[Forest]

Pig, Angels were willing to worl iwth Omen/ND. It was omen and ND who wouldnt work with Angels.

Funnily enough Omen were most vocal in refusing to work with angels, stating on more than one occasion they would rather exi won angels.

And ND were just totally uncoperative, and it appears to me as an outsider that there HC never really agreed with each other, or knew what the other was doing.

[pig]

Originally Posted by Kargool

It would be lovely to get some more action throughout the round. But i dont think it will happen.

Because people think like "oh we can't work with our enemy"

Smell the coffee ladies, the enemy isnt some feud between two alliances who have lets face it never won a round but instead the enemy should be against the alliance who wins every round they play.

Regain some pride, show that someone else can win other than the pa powerhouses and you know what your members might gain some nice roids, xp and decent ranks from a war with eXil as oppose to twatting each other silly and letting Tides of Dire gain decent ranks.

[JonnyBGood]

FAnG won that dire round of PA if you consider them roughly analogous to Angels so that's slightly off-base.

[-=Yggdra=-]

Originally Posted by pig

Regain some pride, show that someone else can win other than the pa powerhouses and you know what your members might gain some nice roids, xp and decent ranks from a war with eXil as oppose to twatting each other silly and letting Tides of Dire gain decent ranks.

"Regain some pride" by having 3 alliances gangbang 1 powerhouse just for the sake of not having eX to win the round?

[JonnyBGood]

Originally Posted by pig

I don't.

Yeah what with them using the same channels and having the same HC and the same members and the same tools and the same community and the same gaming website I can see how you'd think they're not remotely the same.

[qebab]

Originally Posted by pig

Because I and a couple of others banged on about it since pre round, tickstart and throughout the round. If HC at the end of the day as a collective don't do anything about it then what can be done? This feud between Angels and ND (which appears to have more anger on the angels side) is pathetic. Round 15 Angels or ND could of prevented an eXilition win. Likewise this round they could of done so. However once again egos are in the way of doing anything sensible and allowing one of the two groups of alliances who deserve to win it, win.

Did you miss Angels hitting eXilition constantly for 2 weeks in round 15? And of course being roided by New Dawn for the same two weeks.

Or Angels trying for a week to peg back eXilition this round? And yet again being roided by New Dawn.

If it is the case that there is more anger on our side, can you blame us for that?

But anger doesn't run politics. It would, from the point of view of FO, not make sense to planetpick eXilition and give another go when ND would more than certainly see us as a challenger for their "secure #1 spot" and start hitting us. Which was what happened immediately after the merge, even though our hostility to ND at the time was, in fact rather low.

ND asked for a war with us when they, and LCH planetpicked us. We gave them what they asked for. Let's just hope the politics for the rest of the round will not be this static. There is still time, though not much.


Edit: Taking a well earnt rest for a day now, and I won't reply to anything here until tomorrow earliest. Go ahead and slaughter my post if you feel like it, but try to at least think about what you would have done in our position!

[ComradeRob]

Originally Posted by lokken

I don't see how ND makes a difference when Angels/Omen/Vision/P|M/ToF are 5 alliances. If 5 alliances can't take down eXilition then they need to look at it again. I don't see why ND should join in anything just for the sake of taking down one alliance, when that almost certainly dooms it to defeat to a rather substantial block, just 'for a change' in who wins the game. We were being hit to join in, when they could have hit ex - this to me is wasting my time and theirs.

This is the crux of the problem right here. ND and Angels couldn't cooperate. Angels will blame ND (presumably accusing ND of being snobbish, or uncooperative) and ND will blame Angels (for political stupidity, or for having a block). Both decided that it was better to piss about hitting each other (in a really half-arsed way too - I wouldn't dignify any of these scraps by calling them 'wars') than to hit eXilition.

ND can't expect Angels and co. to take on eXilition without ND's support. At times it seemed that ND were saying 'well, Angels have a block, so they can go ahead and start a war with eXilition if they want, and we'll stay out of it'. This, had it happened, would have given ND a very good shot at #1, at the (apparent) expense of Angels. There was no incentive for Angels to hit eX unless they thought that ND were also doing the same (and thus running an equal risk of eX retaliation).

Invoking P|M and ToF doesn't really change matters. Alliance attack capacity follows something close to a power law curve - the top alliances are highly effective (with eX most effective), but effectiveness drops sharply outside of the top 5 alliances. eX, Angels, Omen, ND and perhaps Vision and LCH have the mixture of experience, commitment, motivation and organisation necessary to sustain a war in the right circumstances. I doubt that P|M or ToF make that much of a difference in a war (though I've seen ToF do some good things this round). So saying 'Angels have P|M and ToF so they don't need ND' is wrong. They needed ND, though who is to blame for them not getting ND's support is a question that I admit you're more qualified to answer.

Originally Posted by lokken

Now let me make it plain - I'm not complaining about eX's victory should they win - we knew exactly what risks we took with our policy, but it was the best way out of a bad situation. Until the FO merger it looked like those risks might have paid off, given that our lead was extending (albeit slowly). But to give ourselves even a vague hope of doing anything this round, it involved giving eX hope and I'd defend that decision to the hilt.

FO have tilted the balance immeasurably - but if they want they can try and fix it.

It's entirely in FO's interests to see eX win this round - it gives eX sharply reduced chances of winning next round, which is in FO's interests, whether they play next round as FO or as separate alliances. You can't expect them to give ND a win out of the goodness of their hearts, or even out of a totally illogical desire to beat eXilition (I'm not implying that this is what you believe, but I do think expecting anything else from FO is fruitless).

[wakey]

Originally Posted by Forest

Thats not strictly true though, is it? I was happy to take full military control of Angels, and provide you with sufficient guarentee that Angels and ND would continue to hit exi until a predetermined amount of score was between exi and the 2nd place alliance.

Nice to know that when you were going around asking alliance to get help from other alliance to hot exil that the whole point was simply to ensure angels got a top2. Thank god you never came back to us like you said you would because we were actually willing to agree and to even commit to a level significantly increased on what we had discussed.

I'm guessing thats the reason you refused to announce who was involved as it was clearly just Angels and maybe ND and you were hoping to use alliances like F-Crew as flak

[pig]

Originally Posted by -=Yggdra=-

"Regain some pride" by having 3 alliances gangbang 1 powerhouse just for the sake of not having eX to win the round?

Yes.

eXilition have twice as many roids as ND and Angels/Omen (pretty much). They have more score per member and are set to win the round.

Angels and ND on the other hand haven't won the round (or a round) and would gain considerable pride by gaining roids, xp, score and one of them winning the round.

[Forest]

Originally Posted by wakey

Nice to know that when you were going around asking alliance to get help from other alliance to hot exil that the whole point was simply to ensure angels got a top2. Thank god you never came back to us like you said you would because we were actually willing to agree and to even commit to a level significantly increased on what we had discussed.

I'm guessing thats the reason you refused to announce who was involved as it was clearly just Angels and maybe ND and you were hoping to use alliances like F-Crew as flak

No.

I made it quite clear too all alliances, including angels and nd, that i didnt care who won.

It didnt even matter of exi won. What was important was that exi had a challenge, a proper challenge.

I believed (and i still do) that an unchallenged exi win would be a last final blow to pa that would finally kill it off as a competition.

The simple reason i didnt name other alliances was to protect politics, keep my cards close to my chest and ensure that no spies could leak all plans, becaus ei would be the only one with the plans.

Seeing as you named yousrelf, I can say with a substantial degree of accuracy that f-crew and some other smaller alliances have shown a lot more honour, respect and balls than any of the bigger ones ever did this round, and if maybe HC such as wakey was in charge of the bigger alliances, we wouldnt even be discussing an exi win.

[Kargool]

Originally Posted by Forest

Seeing as you named yousrelf, I can say with a substantial degree of accuracy that f-crew and some other smaller alliances have shown a lot more honour, respect and balls than any of the bigger ones ever did this round, and if maybe HC such as wakey was in charge of the bigger alliances, we wouldnt even be discussing an exi win.

Some alliances hit eXilition at times. But when TGV actually was one of the most hostile alliances towards eXilition, you know that something is wrong somewhere. :-S

[Forest]

Exactly kargool, my point exactly.

[Stoom]

I heard eXilition won't play next round!

[voodoo]

theres only pride in winning. only the winners are remembered. so if they-alliances - decide to go ahead and do it, and succeed, why not take pride in it? and if they dont, it will be just some failed political action just like countless others before them.........

or, maybe 'ppl that matter' (forest or somebody else with initiative) can show they matter and organise things-with individuals, not alliances. u say ure a great MO, then organise ppl. talk to ppl,make a chan, put up scans and update them constantly, etc. im sure ud find all sorts of people from alliances all around joining in. either for easy gains or for grudges or just for fun.

[Forest]

Waste of time.

Unless FO and ND agree to work together, its too late for anyone to make a difference.

[voodoo]

its not too late till everybody has given up. did that happen already?

[wakey]

Originally Posted by Psi_K

:crymeariver:

Breaking apart 2 alliances to merge 30 members from each side without caring about the people that were lost is far less important then eXi picking up a small group of friends...

again ...

:crymeariver: :crymeariver: :crymeariver:

It's maybe not as bad but its still abusing the merge system. These players were in another alliance and if you wanted them you should have gained them for no score gain as the score system is designed to do. The mergers both the kinds that Angels/Omen did and the kind that you did have devalued the round significantly imho as the alliance ranks are supposed to be a sign of quality and attrition is a signifcant factor in this

Originally Posted by NitinA

We picked our fights. Every alliance that went hostile and attacked us, we returned fire. We stated at the start of the round that our politics were going to be different this round--not the "proactive" political style of eXilition past.

When were F-Crew hostile to you, while we were willing to be hostile we never were unles you counting clear retals or galaxy raids as being 'hostile' to you. And its really nice of you to have your members pay so much attention to my planet that when i forget to recall my prelaunch fleet due to being busy at work so that you could try and Fleetcatch me. Its pretty sad actually that here i am on a planet thats not that big (Really havent been active ingame this round due to work where i cant access irc and preparing to move house so ive not been bothering much about the game rather focusing on behind the scenes alliance stuff) and you have nothing better to do as an alliance to wait for me to present a chance for you to FC me

[NitinA]

Originally Posted by wakey

When were F-Crew hostile to you, while we were willing to be hostile we never were unles you counting clear retals or galaxy raids as being 'hostile' to you. And its really nice of you to have your members pay so much attention to my planet that when i forget to recall my prelaunch fleet due to being busy at work so that you could try and Fleetcatch me. Its pretty sad actually that here i am on a planet thats not that big (Really havent been active ingame this round due to work where i cant access irc and preparing to move house so ive not been bothering much about the game rather focusing on behind the scenes alliance stuff) and you have nothing better to do as an alliance to wait for me to present a chance for you to FC me

F-Crew have been hitting us all round. It's 100% understandable though--you guys go for decent sized galaxies and do galaxy raids. We don't consider it hostile targeting, it's considered "normal" Just like you should consider the fleetcatch on your planet. We've attempted fleetcatchs on you guys as many times as we have on other incs/alliances we've had throughout the round. Don't feel special--you're not. In fact, judging from your jumpgate probe, you're pretty much a defence leech. I've never seen an F-crew planet with *SO* much overdefence, not even in other fleetcatchs. Sorry, but I fail to see the whole, "F-crew, unlike all others who have the same thing happen to them, don't deserve to be fleetcaught." So get over it, it's a tactic and part of the game.

[Kargool]

Originally Posted by wakey

It's maybe not as bad but its still abusing the merge system. These players were in another alliance and if you wanted them you should have gained them for no score gain as the score system is designed to do. The mergers both the kinds that Angels/Omen did and the kind that you did have devalued the round significantly imho as the alliance ranks are supposed to be a sign of quality and attrition is a signifcant factor in this




When were F-Crew hostile to you, while we were willing to be hostile we never were unles you counting clear retals or galaxy raids as being 'hostile' to you. And its really nice of you to have your members pay so much attention to my planet that when i forget to recall my prelaunch fleet due to being busy at work so that you could try and Fleetcatch me. Its pretty sad actually that here i am on a planet thats not that big (Really havent been active ingame this round due to work where i cant access irc and preparing to move house so ive not been bothering much about the game rather focusing on behind the scenes alliance stuff) and you have nothing better to do as an alliance to wait for me to present a chance for you to FC me

I have had this discussion with eXi in regards to my own alliance. But i do understand eXi's point of view. In one case i had a alliancemember who had 22 hostile attacks towards exi, and I got no problems with them retalling. However, I think that eXi should rethink their fc strategy towards thoose of the smaller alliances that attacks them. Yes we know you can kick our butts, but atleast be a sport about it instead of overkilling us

However fleetcatching Wakey only shows how big of a defdrain he is in F-crew and f-crew should be duely punished for overdeffing his planet.

I thought you used SMART tactics in defence..

[bwtmc]

Originally Posted by wakey

When were F-Crew hostile to you, while we were willing to be hostile we never were unles you counting clear retals or galaxy raids as being 'hostile' to you. And its really nice of you to have your members pay so much attention to my planet that when i forget to recall my prelaunch fleet due to being busy at work so that you could try and Fleetcatch me. Its pretty sad actually that here i am on a planet thats not that big (Really havent been active ingame this round due to work where i cant access irc and preparing to move house so ive not been bothering much about the game rather focusing on behind the scenes alliance stuff) and you have nothing better to do as an alliance to wait for me to present a chance for you to FC me

Your planet was unmarked in the eX arbiter. The attackers, who organised it themselves, maybe three guys? They didn't have a clue who you were until a million def fleets showed up.

[lokken]

Originally Posted by ComradeRob

This is the crux of the problem right here. ND and Angels couldn't cooperate. Angels will blame ND (presumably accusing ND of being snobbish, or uncooperative) and ND will blame Angels (for political stupidity, or for having a block). Both decided that it was better to piss about hitting each other (in a really half-arsed way too - I wouldn't dignify any of these scraps by calling them 'wars') than to hit eXilition.

Well actually we had no interest in hitting Angels at all, until they started smashing us for not agreeing to what they wanted (to which I'll detail on below)

ND can't expect Angels and co. to take on eXilition without ND's support. At times it seemed that ND were saying 'well, Angels have a block, so they can go ahead and start a war with eXilition if they want, and we'll stay out of it'. This, had it happened, would have given ND a very good shot at #1, at the (apparent) expense of Angels. There was no incentive for Angels to hit eX unless they thought that ND were also doing the same (and thus running an equal risk of eX retaliation).

Perhaps, but why do something which seals your doom just for the sake of stopping eX? Now like you I would like someone who isn't eX winning. But i don't see why alliances should sacrifice themselves for that cause.

Invoking P|M and ToF doesn't really change matters. Alliance attack capacity follows something close to a power law curve - the top alliances are highly effective (with eX most effective), but effectiveness drops sharply outside of the top 5 alliances.

The problem is simply this: Angels and ND could very well take each other on, but any gains we got would have been pegged back by the presence of their block members. The simple (and undeniably true) argument is that if you throw enough at one alliance, it will leak roids like nothing else. Your quote, then continued:

eX, Angels, Omen, ND and perhaps Vision and LCH have the mixture of experience, commitment, motivation and organisation necessary to sustain a war in the right circumstances. I doubt that P|M or ToF make that much of a difference in a war (though I've seen ToF do some good things this round).

Considering they've given us significant levels of incoming that have severely pegged back any gains we've been able to get from FO up to now, I disagree. I don't see how that would be any different when Angels existed. The effect of ToF and Vision is simply to flood you with incoming, at times they've even been drawing defence to let Angels have a clean hit.

So saying 'Angels have P|M and ToF so they don't need ND' is wrong.

First off, I think outnumbering eX by maybe 4 or 5 to 1 is more than adequate to take down exilition early on in the round when they were undermanned. While exilition have good fleet management, I don't see how they could stop what would ultimately be, a lot of incoming and a logistical nightmare.

They needed ND, though who is to blame for them not getting ND's support is a question that I admit you're more qualified to answer.

I for one can't believe that a block of over 200 people can't take out exilition at an early stage, then rip through an ND which at the time looked as if it would be pleased to get top 5, as our play early on was shambolic. Whoever thought suiciding for XP was a good idea needs taken out and thrashing.

As far as I'm concerned the point of no return was crossed when they attacked ND for not doing anything, instead of trying to do something else once they were knocked back. This is pretty much an LCH style capitulation when they could have plugged away at eX and see where they got.

If they wanted to win, hitting what at the time was a dawdling alliance struggling to stay top 5 at the time was not the way, as it only motivated that alliance to play harder and fight them. It is that motivation that has ironically pushed ND forward into the position it got itself 22 million ahead.

Had they even showed themselves as struggling a bit and just left it alone, ND might have felt forced to intervene. Instead they chose to alienate ND and forced ND to attack them. Needless to say, none of this helps towards cooperation and a working relationship. Doing something like that in planetarion has the option of going for you or badly against you.

Since the first few weeks ND were in a vice between a large block and the threat of exilition. Maybe ND were never able to get out of this vice; but instead of getting bashed out of the top 5 by a larger enemy numerically, they chose an option that gave them the opportunity to move up the ranking.

Even so, this round shows yet again, that despite ND's best efforts, you can't beat having hugely active members to back up your politics and an image where people think you are good. For alliances like ND/Angels/Omen, it is a game of probability, with the odds against, simply because if people are determined to attack you, there is little that alliance can do about it. If you get lucky you win. When you are seen as a 'lesser' alliance you need people to be able to stomach you winning - as people hate being beaten by people they see as rubbish. This can unite a lot of people against you, unlike eX who for some reason, people find it 'acceptable' to lose to.


If ND wants to win, it will just have to play better either during this round or the next opportunity that comes up.

It's entirely in FO's interests to see eX win this round - it gives eX sharply reduced chances of winning next round, which is in FO's interests, whether they play next round as FO or as separate alliances. You can't expect them to give ND a win out of the goodness of their hearts, or even out of a totally illogical desire to beat eXilition (I'm not implying that this is what you believe, but I do think expecting anything else from FO is fruitless).

I don't expect them to hand victory to ND, but by the same token to hit an alliance for not joining in to take down ex, then when they have a second alliance and block capable of hitting eX, they do it again defies logic. They gave ND reason to hit them twice when eX was their main concern - first by trying to bully them to act how they wanted, second by merging an alliance ahead of them. Things have been done to spite others when they could have just got on with it, if they thought the threat was urgent enough.

As for who wins this round affecting next round, it's something I don't give a stuff about myself. If you're feared, it'll make other alliances help you out by eliminating each other because they don't want to eliminate you. What's done is done and is water under the bridge, I don't 'do' grudges. This happened this round, but I think Angels overestimated the threat of exilition at that stage in the round and ended up in an extra war which they really didn't need.

[Ceadrath]

Originally Posted by Kargool

However fleetcatching Wakey only shows how big of a defdrain he is in F-crew and f-crew should be duely punished for overdeffing his planet.

I thought you used SMART tactics in defence..

Considering f-crew don't do priority defence, and that wakey wasn't even on at the time of the fc then i can't see how you claim he's a def leech. The same effort would have gone into any member that was being fleetcaught, if it takes a lot of fleets to cover it then so be it. To suggest that wakey leeched defence at the expense of others is quite frankly wrong.