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Unread 25 Jul 2006, 00:20   #301
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Re: Double Standards

Quote:
Originally Posted by Judge
Kettle & Pot i would suggest.
I'm sorry. Hiring hitmen to pop off HC and their wives/children/girlfriends/family/dogs/cats/goldfish if they supported war against 1up (and thus keep anyone from hitting us properly all round) was clearly not in the spirit of the rules.
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Unread 25 Jul 2006, 00:22   #302
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Re: Double Standards

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Originally Posted by qebab
While I know this doesn't add to the discussion, and is largely irrelevant, this post made me smile considering this
Since I'm tired and hot, can I ask you why?
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Unread 25 Jul 2006, 00:23   #303
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Re: Double Standards

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zh|l
What? Examples to what? Mazz has already responded to the actual issues underlining this all, I won't repeat him as frankly, it would make for a boring post in reply.

How does neg repping even really apply to the discussion itself? I heard you neg repped mazz, and I used a great thing called willpower to shrug my shoulders and just neg rep you also since (here's the kicker for you) - mazz is my friend. Oh gosh! If you want to get technical, feel free to look up my history of repping - I don't use it really. I find it ultimately pointless but considering it just takes a click to neg rep you, I thought to do that and then click on a porn link afterwards.

If you could provide a questionnaire for me where you just put all your questions in a bullet point form, it'd be appreciative.
It wasnt about neg repping my point was that if I post on AD about an issue where I havent named any alliance specificly I get a tonne of neg reps from mainly 1up people telling me how "pointles the post is as you havent provided examples". When people provide examples these same 1up people seem to come out and attack them for naming 1up. Its another case of double standards
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Unread 25 Jul 2006, 00:35   #304
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Re: Double Standards

Quote:
Originally Posted by wakey
It wasnt about neg repping my point was that if I post on AD about an issue where I havent named any alliance specificly I get a tonne of neg reps from mainly 1up people telling me how "pointles the post is as you havent provided examples". When people provide examples these same 1up people seem to come out and attack them for naming 1up. Its another case of double standards
You people are the ones who mentioned 1up and was using us as an example of double standards to reflect us in a negative light. The very first post of this thread references 1up - and you yourself a few posts above have accused 1up of abusing the rules and contributing to the destruction of this game. You also mentioned neg repping as a horde of us doing it (which by the way, I had nothing to do with - I was keeping quiet on IRC as I'm not around for long I think). I'd say you've already shown sour grapes in your viewpoint of 1up and its personnel.

Frankly, so far, the attack upon 1up (which this has been) has been as tight as a young local prostitute posing as a nubile virgin
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Unread 25 Jul 2006, 00:42   #305
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Re: Double Standards

Actually there is one charge that needs to be fired at big alliances.

Stop fakenicking its tremendously shit and damaging to the community.

As far as i'm concerned 1up have nothing to defend here. Instead they should pile in, admit that being articulate leads to anyone getting round the rule and show up this rule for what it really is and what this thread is actually about - its crap and leads to double standards.
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Unread 25 Jul 2006, 00:59   #306
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Re: Double Standards

Quote:
Originally Posted by lokken
As far as i'm concerned 1up have nothing to defend here.
Indeed, because 1up has violated no rules.

Quote:
Instead they should pile in, admit that being articulate leads to anyone getting round the rule
What are you talking about? What rule, who got around it?

Quote:
and show up this rule for what it really is and what this thread is actually about - its crap and leads to double standards.
No, this thread is actually about the supposed double standard by which 1up gets away with breaking rules while other alliances ahve their planets closed. That is what it says in the OP.
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Unread 25 Jul 2006, 01:06   #307
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Re: Double Standards

Quote:
Originally Posted by wakey
mazzelaar: Unless your going to open your mind up to the fact things arent black or white (or should i say pro 1up or attacking 1up) you should simple stop commenting on threads as you show yourself to be a complete fool. I mean you even quote in your sig JBG who says something that highlights the kind of detrimental poster you are on these forums yet you seem to act like its something to be proud off.And then people have the cheek to blame jolt or pateam for the games failings when we have people like yourself in the community.

TomKat didnt attack 1up, all he did was complain about an inconcistancy that exists in the rules and used 1up as an example because your the most obvious example at this time. If you take a moment to remove your rose tinted glasses you will clearly see that it looks highly likly that 1up have this round and last undertaken in using support planets. However the way of using support planets are such that they wont get closed. As such we have some kind's of out of tag support planets which are allowed to to get away with it and some kinds that are closed for it and thats an inconistancy.

Now 1up arent the only alliance breaking the support planet rule and going against the very nature of the alliance limit ( anyone whos used out of tag scanners for example is clearly going agaisnt the whole point of the limit and these planets are support planets, they just arent penilised) BUT your one of the biggest names so you will almost always be used as an example when people raise issues and its relivent and if you cant live with that then I suggest you stand down from your position. And if your going to stay in your position then stop making anything an attack on 1up, stop reveling in being such a hostile bastard and listen to what people are saying

boy we'd really be screwed if we didn't have wakey here to explain it all to us
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Unread 25 Jul 2006, 01:08   #308
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Re: Double Standards

Quote:
Originally Posted by mazzelaar
That also made me 'lol'. Clearly I am responsible for the demise of the game. I apologise to one and all.
you asshole
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Unread 25 Jul 2006, 01:09   #309
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Re: Double Standards

Jeez. 7 pages of thread. I'm so awesome.

The simple truth is that I made the thread because I don't like what's going on. The last time I played, the support planet rule had only just been brought in, so people "abusing" it (or however you want to word it) weren't very common.

I couldn't care less which alliances are dodging it. It could have been SPQR and Myth. It could have been ND or HR. I still don't like it. And I know I'm not the only one.

1up, I'm sorry I used you as an example. It was mainly because you're one of the most established and probably the most famous alliance at the moment. That's why you made a good example.

Apologies if it came across as an insult or accusation to 1up. I know I can say that wasn't the intention now, but if people read/interpret it like that, obviously that doesn't matter (as it's about how it's read, not how I intended it). That last line about "one rule for 1up etc" obviously is interpreted as anti-1up. Sorry.

Like I said though - I made the thread because I don't like this dodging of the rules.

It seemed to have had the desired affect though, as Appoco made a new thread asking the userbase what to do about the support planet rule (stating that he made it because of this thread).

Hopefully this thread has contributed to improving the game (amongst the petty bickering, of which I'm not proud to admit I contributed to substantially). That was the intention.
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Unread 25 Jul 2006, 01:11   #310
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Re: Double Standards

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Originally Posted by aNgRyDuCk
boy we'd really be screwed if we didn't have wakey here to explain it all to us
He has got quite a few good points.

But then it's predictable I'd say that, I suppose. He's agreeing with me
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Unread 25 Jul 2006, 01:17   #311
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Re: Double Standards

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat
He has got quite a few good points.

But then it's predictable I'd say that, I suppose. He's agreeing with me
I'll agree with you, if you give me money :P
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Unread 25 Jul 2006, 01:21   #312
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Re: Double Standards

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat
Jeez. 7 pages of thread. I'm so awesome.

The simple truth is that I made the thread because I don't like what's going on. The last time I played, the support planet rule had only just been brought in, so people "abusing" it (or however you want to word it) weren't very common.

I couldn't care less which alliances are dodging it. It could have been SPQR and Myth. It could have been ND or HR. I still don't like it. And I know I'm not the only one.

1up, I'm sorry I used you as an example. It was mainly because you're one of the most established and probably the most famous alliance at the moment. That's why you made a good example.

Apologies if it came across as an insult or accusation to 1up. I know I can say that wasn't the intention now, but if people read/interpret it like that, obviously that doesn't matter (as it's about how it's read, not how I intended it). That last line about "one rule for 1up etc" obviously is interpreted as anti-1up. Sorry.
Tomkat not only was it very obviously and intentionally an accusation about 1up, you are still making that accusation in this very post. You continue to argue that 1up is violating the support planet rule.

From start to finish the post is about how 1up are getting away with support planets so exils support planets shouldnt be closed. The accusation about 1up is a vital part of your argument and without it you do not have an argument. If 1up is not in fact violating the support planet rule it means there is no reason to drag 1up into a discussion about exilitions support planets being closed.

The last line of the post not only can be interpreted as anti-1up, but can be read in no other way.

Quote:
Like I said though - I made the thread because I don't like this dodging of the rules.
So will you finally admit that you are accusing 1up of dodging rules?
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Unread 25 Jul 2006, 01:44   #313
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Re: Double Standards

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat
snip
Thank you for clarifying your position and extending the olive branch Tomkat.
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Unread 25 Jul 2006, 02:02   #314
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Re: Double Standards

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Originally Posted by K-W
No, this thread is actually about the supposed double standard by which 1up gets away with breaking rules while other alliances ahve their planets closed. That is what it says in the OP.
It was one example, get over it.

If you want to go alliance bashing, go stick it to TK on AD.
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Unread 25 Jul 2006, 02:30   #315
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Re: Double Standards

Quote:
Originally Posted by lokken
It was one example, get over it.

If you want to go alliance bashing, go stick it to TK on AD.
How am I alliance bashing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tomkat
Yet why are 1up allowed to keep these support planets in tow that they haven't added to their tag, when these scanners/covoppers are closed for doing nothing more than targetting one alliance a bit more than others?

It seems like "one rule for 1up, one for everyone else" really
Tomkat is asking why exil support planets should be closed when 1up support planets are not closed and suggesting that 1up are alone in the universe in being able to have support planets without being closed.

He has expanded his argument during the thread and backed away from singling 1up out, but continues to point to 1up as an example of an alliance with support planets.

You yourself have seemingly agreed with that idea, explaining that more articulate alliances (you mean 1up right?) are able to get around rules by persuading officials.

How can you deny that this thread is substaintially about 1up violating rules and getting away with it and how can you call 1up members out of line for challenging a key aspect of Tomkat's argument that you yourself have expanded upon in this thread?
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Unread 25 Jul 2006, 02:53   #316
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Re: Double Standards

The fact there are lots of examples featuring 1up (which in my opinion as the most articulate alliance is not surprising) is your own lookout.
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Unread 25 Jul 2006, 03:13   #317
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Re: Double Standards

Quote:
Originally Posted by lokken
The fact there are lots of examples featuring 1up (which in my opinion as the most articulate alliance is not surprising) is your own lookout.
I guess you're right, I guess 1up are cheaters who undermine game officials, thanks for revealing the vile truth of 1up. How dare 1up members come on these forums and question why someone would use them as an example of cheaters, they obviously are cheaters, cheaters who influence multihunters and PA team to cover up thier cheating. Im so glad we have you here to expose 1up for the frauds they are.
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Unread 25 Jul 2006, 03:22   #318
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Re: Double Standards

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ska
Funny story about 400 spiders. Somone sent 800 spiders to attack me(Im zik) with no pods etc. They were part of a teamup and raped our def. Same case as elviz, different result. Your argument sucks.
For christ sake, I keep hearing this stuff about spiders. News him and check tick 287 something with widows and or roaches, NO PODS. Seems there has been more than 1 occassion. Since I dont have all the facts I cant accuse him of anything nor can I safely say that he is inocent. But tbfh this sure as hell doesnt make him look good. And to end this post by quoting my all time favourite 1up poster. Something along the line off " Where there is smoke, there is fire"
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Unread 25 Jul 2006, 03:22   #319
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Re: Double Standards

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil^
I believe you have become confused.
1up are accused of having abused the limits last round via accounts which were sitting there doing nothing- .
I just felt the urge to point out to u and all other 1uppers that the support planets u had last round infact didnt do nothing. They DONATED resources to galaxy fund.

Is it possible to be a more clear support planet than: ALL u do for a round is donating resources into an alliance`s galaxy fund to pay for scans, and then u get kicked to add the "real" members late round.

PLZ STOP saying they didnt do anything, because even if u say so XXX times 1up PR team, it doesnt make it so.

thx alot
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I would give me right testicle to be in a gal with you wishmaster!!! wonder if thatd be enough to bribe spinner with hmmmm
<JC`> i sent him a msg saying Wishmaster 0wns, so he recalled
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Unread 25 Jul 2006, 03:46   #320
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Re: Double Standards

Quote:
Originally Posted by Treveler
There is a line were rough sex become rape and there is a line were legal planet activity becomes supportive. It can hardly be inconsistent unless the same actions is treated differently by MHs in any given round and I believe most ppl agree that inactive none interacting planets used to keep alliance score down is not 'as bad' as having an active group of coverop'ers actively targeting a single alliance.

The MHs simply decided that using inactive planets didn’t cross the line, but having a cover op team does (until they reopened them). I don’t necessarily agree with that decision but unless another alliance was told they couldn’t use inactives last round, it can hardly be called double standards.

And because of the generalness of the rule what might be allowed one round won’t necessarily be allowed next round. I assume that flexibility is why the rules as made so general.

The closest thing to inconsistency or double standards I can find in this thread is the fact that having a cover op team is actually legal despite the fact 1up command was told it wasn’t preround.
Isnt breaking a rule one way or the other.... Still breaking the rule. Whatever way you put it. Its not that 1up is beeing blamed for anything, personaly I think they played out the tactic perfectly. But having 7ish shit planets passifly playing the game with the sole purpous of keeping 1up score down to fool everyone else and with these planets exceeding the alliance limit, is still breaking the rules. What I dont understand is that MH gave 1up the go ahead to do it. It says nothing about 1up, it just says alot about how the rules are beeing enforced. /me points at the name of the thread
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Unread 25 Jul 2006, 04:00   #321
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Re: Double Standards

Quote:
Originally Posted by KweKweK
Isnt breaking a rule one way or the other.... Still breaking the rule. Whatever way you put it. Its not that 1up is beeing blamed for anything, personaly I think they played out the tactic perfectly. But having 7ish shit planets passifly playing the game with the sole purpous of keeping 1up score down to fool everyone else and with these planets exceeding the alliance limit, is still breaking the rules. What I dont understand is that MH gave 1up the go ahead to do it. It says nothing about 1up, it just says alot about how the rules are beeing enforced. /me points at the name of the thread
I agree that it has nothing to do with 1up, so what double standard are you talking about?

The fact that the multihunters didnt classify something as support that you think should have been classified as support is not a double standard. A double standard is when when groups of people are treated differently for doing the same thing.

Cov-op planets, late tagging planets, planets who idle in a tag (and donate resources), are all very different situations that may or may not fall under the support planet rule as written and interpreted by PA team and may or may not be something each of us sees as a support planet based on our own personal opinions, regardless they arent the same actions. The fact that people who did one of those things were treated differently than people who did a different one of those things doesnt reveal a double standard, it reveals where PA team draws and has in the past drawn the support planet line.

And where that line is drawn is an important and interesting discussion and im glad its happening on an appropriate thread instead of a thread about alliance double standards.
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Unread 25 Jul 2006, 04:54   #322
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Re: Double Standards

In this case all stated in the rule bellow happened with the shit planets that were intag to keep 1up tag low(R17). What are the repeated actions you might ask yourselves. 1st what Wishmaster mentioned, yes that gives an unfair advantage how little it may be. 2nd These shit planets repeated actions were even more simple by just having to log in once a while to prevent the account from beeing deleted and thus keeping the alliance score low. The advantage of this beeing, the competing alliances for the no1 spot noticed far to late how big 1up actually was. So yes, this is 1 of many examples where the rule has actually been broken, but not enforced how it should be.

(f) Support Accounts are accounts which are dedicated to undertaking specific
and repeated actions which result in an unfair benefit for a
planet/organisation, where an organisation is defined as an alliance or galaxy.

About these cov op planets that have been closed. I fail to see who they're actually supporting and which ally. Surely everyone is benefitting from it, but the alliance that gets cov opped. Pretty obvious who has been lobbying for these planets to get closed.

These are just a couple of many occasions to show how flawed the rule is.
1 occassion the rule as its written has been broken, but allowed. 2nd occassion rule hasnt been broken but planets get closed for those reasons.

Looks like "double standards" to me.

Simply shows the awfull state the game is currently in and how sh*t the rule is itself and how sh*t its beeing enforced.

P.S. Just shows that 1up lobby skills are better than others, just a fact rest of the universe has to deal with, because I dont expect the rule to change any time soon.
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Unread 25 Jul 2006, 05:08   #323
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Re: Double Standards

Quote:
Originally Posted by KweKweK
In this case all stated in the rule bellow happened with the shit planets that were intag to keep 1up tag low(R17). What are the repeated actions you might ask yourselves. 1st what Wishmaster mentioned, yes that gives an unfair advantage how little it may be. 2nd These shit planets repeated actions were even more simple by just having to log in once a while to prevent the account from beeing deleted and thus keeping the alliance score low. The advantage of this beeing, the competing alliances for the no1 spot noticed far to late how big 1up actually was. So yes, this is 1 of many examples where the rule has actually been broken, but not enforced how it should be.

(f) Support Accounts are accounts which are dedicated to undertaking specific
and repeated actions which result in an unfair benefit for a
planet/organisation, where an organisation is defined as an alliance or galaxy.

About these cov op planets that have been closed. I fail to see who they're actually supporting and which ally. Surely everyone is benefitting from it, but the alliance that gets cov opped. Pretty obvious who has been lobbying for these planets to get closed.

These are just a couple of many occasions to show how flawed the rule is.
1 occassion the rule as its written has been broken, but allowed. 2nd occassion rule hasnt been broken but planets get closed for those reasons.

Looks like "double standards" to me.

Simply shows the awfull state the game is currently in and how sh*t the rule is itself and how sh*t its beeing enforced.
If you were in PA team last round, you would have interpreted the rules differently, totally understood, I probably would have too, so what?

You havent shown a double standard because you havent shown two different alliances doing the same thing and being treated differently. You have shown alliances doing different things and being treated differently.

As far as the cov-op planets. We are talking only about planets who cov-op in a coordinated effort to support an alliance, we are not talking about random people who cov-op on thier own. And if you dont see how having a team of cov-oppers at your disposal benefits an alliance I dont know what to tell you.

Quote:
P.S. Just shows that 1up lobby skills are better than others, just a fact rest of the universe has to deal with, because I dont expect the rule to change any time soon.[
So you are trying to claim that 1up went behind the scenes and told PA team how to interpret the support planet rule? I suppose we could buy into that conspiricy, or we could go with the much more plausible explentation that 1up looked at PA teams interpretation and adjusted their tactics around it.
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Unread 25 Jul 2006, 06:00   #324
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Re: Double Standards

Lett me start with suggestesting you to read before you post. It may have well been 2 different cases, but it applies to the same rule. Thus the 2 cases and its outcome can be compared.

Well the 2nd paragraph made me chuckle tbh. Do you seriously think the certain alliance thats beeing cov opped hasnt pissed off any people to take revenge like that and arent you supposed to attack/covop who ever u want. I know I pissed off more than enough people to cov op me and I'm just 1 person.
It seems like you know what you're talking about. So instead of whining with these so called claims of yours about "Cov op coordination" etc. I would like to see some facts about who these people are and who they work for etc. PM me on IRC if you want and share this with me. Without any facts it just makes you look silly. 2nd thing I'd like to point out, you keep talking about "an" alliance thats benefitting from this. But like I said before, every alliance within reach of passing 1up or putting distance between them in the rankings is benefitting from it. Which theoreticly is pretty much the whole top 15. 3rd thing if an alliance or certain players get cov opped alot... why the hell not act accordingly and build some sec centres or set it on priority like most others who gotten cov opped (Yes, like me).

Quote:
So you are trying to claim that 1up went behind the scenes and told PA team how to interpret the support planet rule? I suppose we could buy into that conspiricy, or we could go with the much more plausible explentation that 1up looked at PA teams interpretation and adjusted their tactics around it.
Well I seem to recall a certain HC figure telling them they approached PA admins pre r17 with there tactic and plan and layed it out to the PA admins why it should be aproved etc. Oh wait... isnt that called lobbying

You make it sound like lobbying is a bad thing. Which it certainly isnt. Pretty much every alliance does it. Its the decision making of the PA team that surprises me. Which leaves me for one conclusion to make. 1up has some kick ass lobbyists for PA admins to be persuaded in making such utter bs decisions.
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Unread 25 Jul 2006, 06:46   #325
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Re: Double Standards

Quote:
Originally Posted by KweKweK
Lett me start with suggestesting you to read before you post. It may have well been 2 different cases, but it applies to the same rule. Thus the 2 cases and its outcome can be compared.
I can read just fine. Just because two things arguably fall under the same rule doesnt make them the same thing. Its certainly possible that the differences in enforcement were due to some double standard, but its also possible that they interpret the rule differently than you do and that accounts for the differences. The latter seems more likely on the face, can you give me any reasons I should believe the former?

Quote:
Well the 2nd paragraph made me chuckle tbh. Do you seriously think the certain alliance thats beeing cov opped hasnt pissed off any people to take revenge like that and arent you supposed to attack/covop who ever u want. I know I pissed off more than enough people to cov op me and I'm just 1 person.
No that isnt what I said at all.

I said that we arent talking about people who work independently whether they target 1up, exilition or just whoever attacks them. We are talking about support planets, meaning there is evidence that they are acting for the sake of an alliance. This is the case in all support planet cases, determing if the planet is acting to support an alliance or not. Nobody has ever proposed shutting down all cov oppers who target a specific alliance. Just as you wouldnt get shut down for occassionally defending a friend of yours in another alliance.

Quote:
It seems like you know what you're talking about. So instead of whining with these so called claims of yours about "Cov op coordination" etc. I would like to see some facts about who these people are and who they work for etc. PM me on IRC if you want and share this with me. Without any facts it just makes you look silly. 2nd thing I'd like to point out, you keep talking about "an" alliance thats benefitting from this. But like I said before, every alliance within reach of passing 1up or putting distance between them in the rankings is benefitting from it. Which theoreticly is pretty much the whole top 15. 3rd thing if an alliance or certain players get cov opped alot... why the hell not act accordingly and build some sec centres or set it on priority like most others who gotten cov opped (Yes, like me).
I will answer you in reverse order:

3. of course security centers were built, what does that have to do with anything?

2. an alliance randomly benefitting from a cov-ops action isnt what we are talking about, what we are talking about is planets who are working specifically to benefit one alliance

1. It is literally impossible to whine on a message board so why dont you keep the childish jibes to yourself. I have seen the results of coordinated cov-ops designed to impair planets, as to whether those planets were working with an alliance is not really something I can see. I can only say that if they are working with an alliance, they qualify as support planets to me and I hope the PA pfficials agree.

Quote:
Well I seem to recall a certain HC figure telling them they approached PA admins pre r17 with there tactic and plan and layed it out to the PA admins why it should be aproved etc. Oh wait... isnt that called lobbying
I wasn't there so I cant say what happened, but if they just asked if thier plan was legal, they werent lobbying.

Quote:
You make it sound like lobbying is a bad thing. Which it certainly isnt. Pretty much every alliance does it. Its the decision making of the PA team that surprises me. Which leaves me for one conclusion to make. 1up has some kick ass lobbyists for PA admins to be persuaded in making such utter bs decisions.
No you are also left with the conclusion that members of PA team simply have a different opinion than you do. There is no reason to assume that they did it because 1up convinced them to do it. In fact it seems highly unlikely to me that PA team members would go against thier judgement and do what 1up told them it wanted instead. They aren't puppets.

Heck, we are also left with the conclusion that PA officials made a mistake and OK'd a tactic that in retrospect they wouldnt have OK'd but let it go rather than changing the stated rules mid round, who knows.

But your point about all alliances being able to lobby is well taken and quite important. If 1up told the MH's they thought their plan should be legal, what difference does that make? Of course 1up thinks its plans should be legal, every alliance thinks its plans should be legal.

The issue with the theory that 1up gets special breaks from PA team is there is no reason to think PA team wheighs 1up's opinions over anyone elses. The only explentation ive seen so far for this supposed phenomenom is that 1up has more articulate command members and representatives based on the fact that they dissproportionatly post on the forums so they can sway PA teams opinions with thier rhetoric. That doesnt make much sense to me. There are other alliances full of smart articulate people who know thier way around the game, know people throughout the game and are perfectly able to express opinions to PA team members when they feel it necessary. Whether they happen to post on the forums is pretty irrellevant.
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Unread 25 Jul 2006, 06:57   #326
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Re: Double Standards

Let me just say that this thread delivers.

9/10
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Unread 25 Jul 2006, 07:39   #327
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Re: Double Standards

Quote:
Originally Posted by lokken
Actually there is one charge that needs to be fired at big alliances.

Stop fakenicking its tremendously shit and damaging to the community.
Are you suggesting that "fakenicking" is against the rules or even the spirit of the game?

I for sure can see no requirement to use IRC let alone have a registered IRC Nick to play this game, IRC is purely a communications tool available to all in any game enviroment.

If a person decides to use a different IRC Nick each round to hide his or her identity then that is their choice and has nothing to do with the game

I personally never Fake Nick, as I cba having several IRC clients open, in fact I cba being on NG most of the round as it is generally full of idiots.

(a bit off topic, but you raised the issue)
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Unread 25 Jul 2006, 08:26   #328
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Re: Double Standards

hey guys can one of you please inform these caths everyone's talking about to drop some spiders (about 2k should be FINE) at my planet?
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Unread 25 Jul 2006, 08:27   #329
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Re: Double Standards

Lok, shall we get rid of def bots too? and just say 'msg an op in 1up/exil/omen etc'?
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Unread 25 Jul 2006, 09:11   #330
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Re: Double Standards

Quote:
Originally Posted by KweKweK
Isnt breaking a rule one way or the other.... Still breaking the rule. Whatever way you put it. Its not that 1up is beeing blamed for anything, personaly I think they played out the tactic perfectly. But having 7ish shit planets passifly playing the game with the sole purpous of keeping 1up score down to fool everyone else and with these planets exceeding the alliance limit, is still breaking the rules. What I dont understand is that MH gave 1up the go ahead to do it. It says nothing about 1up, it just says alot about how the rules are beeing enforced. /me points at the name of the thread
If it was my decision I wouldn’t allow that tactic but that doesn’t mean shit as long as the MH'ers or the PA team allows it.

And unless some other alliance has been denied the same option it isn’t inconsistent and it certainly isn’t double standards.
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Unread 25 Jul 2006, 09:31   #331
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Re: Double Standards

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zh|l
You people are the ones who mentioned 1up and was using us as an example of double standards to reflect us in a negative light. The very first post of this thread references 1up - and you yourself a few posts above have accused 1up of abusing the rules and contributing to the destruction of this game. You also mentioned neg repping as a horde of us doing it (which by the way, I had nothing to do with - I was keeping quiet on IRC as I'm not around for long I think). I'd say you've already shown sour grapes in your viewpoint of 1up and its personnel.

Frankly, so far, the attack upon 1up (which this has been) has been as tight as a young local prostitute posing as a nubile virgin
First of all dont start being like mazz, your better than that and your supposed to be one of the more resonable 1uppers whom doesnt just read into threads what they want to read.

1) I believe I made sure that at no point did I say you were abuseing the rules, I said "Breaking the rules and going against the spirit of the rules". Anyone whos ever kept scanners out of tag has gone against the spirit of the rules, its just PATeam has never dared to enforce it and hence have stated its ok when infact these planets offer as much support to the alliance as a covoper. a def whore ect ect.

2) I didnt label 1up of destroying the game, I said that aspects of this community are helping kill the game. Now unless your ego's so big that you see 1up as the community this cant be seen as an attack on 1up as a whole. 1up are a TINY part of this community. This doesnt mean that 1up members arent part of the problem. Theres a group of them on these forums whom will attack people for having views which arent in their advantage, take pride in driving players away from the forums and will always look for a way to try and make out that if you post about anything to help people/alliances outside teh top10 that its not an issue and your just being selfish to help yourself and do it so much that any attempt to help the game gain new blood gets watered down until its basically only helps the top alliances and not where the helps needed.

But anyway this is offtopic so lets leave this for another thread. If you want to discuss it further create a new thread on it.
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Unread 25 Jul 2006, 09:39   #332
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Re: Double Standards

in all honesty anyone trying to defend tomkat with the whole it's not about 1up thing is totally blind, his wording was nothing short of awful. whilst his intentions MAY have been otherwise, he sure as hell hasn't done a good job of putting that across, if it was your alliance name instead of 1up in his original post, you'd have most likely reacted in the same way.

moving on, i really think it's brilliant how even though support planets were first brought up ROUNDS ago, nothing concrete had been done to 'deal with them' (ie either allow them totally, or not at all)

the parallels between this & the xp system are also quite cute, alliance gets whiny after their antequated playing style has been outwitted by people who use the frailities of the game design and the pa team to their advantage.

whatever happened to the 'spirit of the game' guys?
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Unread 25 Jul 2006, 09:41   #333
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Re: Double Standards

Are you a part of this problem wakey? You have repeatedly shown hostility towards one specific poster in this thread who has done nothing but debating the topic.

You are NOT the messiah of this game and you certainly haven’t done any more good for this game than any other long running HC.

The hypocrisy you repeatedly show is a tad stunning. I can only conclude that you’re trolling.
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Unread 25 Jul 2006, 10:39   #334
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Re: Double Standards

Maybe instead of arguing about what shouldn't have been allowed last round and should be allowed this round we should argue about what should be allowed for next round? There's a thread just above this one you might want to check out if you feel this way.
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Unread 25 Jul 2006, 11:41   #335
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Re: Double Standards

Quote:
Originally Posted by Treveler
You are NOT the messiah of this game ......
In fairness every time I see a post from Wakey I think "Jesus Christ almighty". Is that close enough?
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Unread 25 Jul 2006, 11:45   #336
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Re: Double Standards

Quote:
Originally Posted by mazzelaar
In fairness every time I see a post from Wakey I think "Jesus Christ almighty". Is that close enough?
Every time i see a thread on AD or PD with over 100 posts i think that. LET ALONE IF WAKEY HAS POSTED IN IT
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Unread 25 Jul 2006, 12:02   #337
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Re: Double Standards

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benneh
Every time i see a thread on AD or PD with over 100 posts i think that. LET ALONE IF WAKEY HAS POSTED IN IT

We're being harsh, Wakey often has good points to make and works hard on behalf of his alliance. It just so happens he has a hardon for turning me into some community destroying monster atm.
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Unread 25 Jul 2006, 12:02   #338
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Re: Double Standards

Quote:
Originally Posted by K-W
I guess you're right, I guess 1up are cheaters who undermine game officials, thanks for revealing the vile truth of 1up. How dare 1up members come on these forums and question why someone would use them as an example of cheaters, they obviously are cheaters, cheaters who influence multihunters and PA team to cover up thier cheating. Im so glad we have you here to expose 1up for the frauds they are.
Yes, because ridiculing posts and misinterpreting them massively is a fantastic way to persuade people that 1up are whiter than white because no alliance ever is. You'll get no change trying to pursue that line here. As ever, ph34rbot provides wisdom on the issue:

<Germania> I need a 12 step program <@Germania> to stop forum posting

Seriously, do everyone a favour and take your own advice.

Everyone is trying to undermine the rules. 1up are. Exiltiion are. Ascendancy probably have (although i'm not sure how it works when our fleets never interacted and we had no enemy). The fact is simple, 1up as the incumbent alliance is bound to have more examples. I'm sure other alliances have their fair shares but I'd say it's quite likely you have the most examples.

The support planets rule and alliance limits and the inconsistency of application PROMOTES people trying to dodge the rule. It is in the nature of the game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jer
in all honesty anyone trying to defend tomkat with the whole it's not about 1up thing is totally blind, his wording was nothing short of awful. whilst his intentions MAY have been otherwise
I thought his intentions were pretty obvious and were certainly otherwise from post 1. This is a forum where people are trying to get their opinions across, not the Planetarion Support Planet Act of 2006. I prefer to go by the jist of a post and go by what they appear to mean rather than take it legalistically/literally as to what they say.

Now to draw a line under this topic and to move onto something else as I have more shit to talk about:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

See what I did there

As for fakenicking - the reason I want rid, is because there's nothing worse than joining with a bunch of people you know are hiding and appear as if they probably don't want to defend you. It just promotes mistrust, pretty much helps lose any sense of community in the galaxy. My galaxy got rid of fakenicking and I'd say it was a much happier galaxy than the fake nicking ones i've been a part of. I just see it as a preferable, more productive way of playing the game. If you have a friendly team that's open and honest you are far more likely to engage with any new members of your galaxy and in all honesty, fakenicking is just delaying the inevitable and I think it does more harm than good.

(Mods feel free to delete this bit if you think it's too offtopic btw)
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Unread 25 Jul 2006, 12:19   #339
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Re: Double Standards

It's a bit ironic because 1up* themselves have done quite a lot of damage to their reputation and overall image by posting in this thread like trolls, when they were trying to defend their image in the first place.

More than I did by making one little post right at the beginning of this thread, anyway.

I'd stop posting on AD if I were you, guys. You aren't doing yourselves any favours




* (when I say 1up I mean mazz, zhil, germania, treveler - basically the "representatives of 1up")
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Unread 25 Jul 2006, 12:36   #340
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Re: Double Standards

I think mazz has been quite good, actually - as he's bothered to argue posts. Zhil's I haven't really read, in all honesty.
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Unread 25 Jul 2006, 19:34   #341
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Re: Double Standards

Quote:
Originally Posted by mazzelaar
In fairness every time I see a post from Wakey I think "Jesus Christ almighty". Is that close enough?
Close but no sigar!

And I wount tell you what I think when I see his posts!
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Unread 25 Jul 2006, 20:33   #342
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Re: Double Standards

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat
* (when I say 1up I mean mazz, zhil, germania, treveler - basically the "representatives of 1up")
The Usual suspects
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Unread 25 Jul 2006, 21:00   #343
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Re: Double Standards

Quote:
Originally Posted by mazzelaar
We're being harsh, Wakey often has good points to make and works hard on behalf of his alliance. It just so happens he has a hardon for turning me into some community destroying monster atm.
but you are....
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Unread 25 Jul 2006, 22:22   #344
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Re: Double Standards

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat
It's a bit ironic because 1up* themselves have done quite a lot of damage to their reputation and overall image by posting in this thread like trolls, when they were trying to defend their image in the first place.

More than I did by making one little post right at the beginning of this thread, anyway.

I'd stop posting on AD if I were you, guys. You aren't doing yourselves any favours




* (when I say 1up I mean mazz, zhil, germania, treveler - basically the "representatives of 1up")

Yes, AD would be much better if we all agreed with the initial post and let people initiate smack talk about other alliances and simply not respond.

I find it rather saddening how you're now pulling out the "you've damaged your own rep and you should stop posting!" card.

Desperation perhaps.
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Unread 25 Jul 2006, 22:31   #345
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Re: Double Standards

honestly i really get fed up of this.

dont blame 1up for the mistake of the PA team all 1up do is what we should do im ND by the way so i have no affiliation to them. 1up play by the rules they dont break them simply they use the rules to win its hardly unfair.

and to be honest i really get fed up of the majorety of AD discussions turning into lets blame 1up

nick= error in IRC

edited cos i cant spell
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Unread 26 Jul 2006, 00:41   #346
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Re: Double Standards

Quote:
Originally Posted by Treveler
If it was my decision I wouldn’t allow that tactic but that doesn’t mean shit as long as the MH'ers or the PA team allows it.

And unless some other alliance has been denied the same option it isn’t inconsistent and it certainly isn’t double standards.
If it was me in MH'ers/PA team position I would get rid of the rule that has brought so much controversy to the game.

The problem with that 2nd paragraph is. The tactic used by 1up to win round 17 was indeed in conflict with the rule. The HC approached MH and/or PA admins with there tactic and they got the go ahead. Other HC's came with slightly different tactics but with a bit more direct benefit and got denied (Omen). Here is the problem with what you say. If MH and/or PA admins allow a tactic to be used that is in conflict with the original rule, this should be made clear with the whole community that an exception on the rule has been added to the rules. I think this was the case with the whole scanner thing.

With all of this I'm in no way indicating that 1up are the bad guys or anything or even beeing favoured by the game admins cause thats just ridiculous. They thought of a tactic, pleaded there case with MH and/or PA admins and got it approved and played it out perfectly. This added even more to my respect for 1up than I already had.

What I just cant understand is how the hell MH and/or PA admins could have approved a tactic which gave 1 alliance an unfair advantage over the rest of the universe by having more members "playing" for them than the tag allows. And thus allowing support planets. "Double Standards"
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Unread 26 Jul 2006, 01:18   #347
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Re: Double Standards

Quote:
Originally Posted by aestuos
honestly i really get fed up of this.

dont blame 1up for the mistake of the PA team all 1up do is what we should do im ND by the way so i have no affiliation to them. 1up play by the rules they dont break them simply they use the rules to win its hardly unfair.

and to be honest i really get fed up of the majorety of AD discussions turning into lets blame 1up

nick= error in IRC

edited cos i cant spell
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Unread 26 Jul 2006, 01:20   #348
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Re: Double Standards

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheShadowMan
but you are....
how exactly?
does he take a crowbar to your face if you don't hand over your roids or something?
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Unread 26 Jul 2006, 01:22   #349
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Re: Double Standards

Quote:
Originally Posted by KweKweK
If it was me in MH'ers/PA team position I would get rid of the rule that has brought so much controversy to the game.

The problem with that 2nd paragraph is. The tactic used by 1up to win round 17 was indeed in conflict with the rule. The HC approached MH and/or PA admins with there tactic and they got the go ahead. Other HC's came with slightly different tactics but with a bit more direct benefit and got denied (Omen). Here is the problem with what you say. If MH and/or PA admins allow a tactic to be used that is in conflict with the original rule, this should be made clear with the whole community that an exception on the rule has been added to the rules. I think this was the case with the whole scanner thing.

With all of this I'm in no way indicating that 1up are the bad guys or anything or even beeing favoured by the game admins cause thats just ridiculous. They thought of a tactic, pleaded there case with MH and/or PA admins and got it approved and played it out perfectly. This added even more to my respect for 1up than I already had.

What I just cant understand is how the hell MH and/or PA admins could have approved a tactic which gave 1 alliance an unfair advantage over the rest of the universe by having more members "playing" for them than the tag allows. And thus allowing support planets. "Double Standards"
I guess it all boils down to how we define double standards. I won’t call it DS unless it’s more or less the exact same situation and you define it slightly different.

We both agree that the MH's handled the situation badly though it seems.
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Unread 26 Jul 2006, 02:00   #350
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Re: Double Standards

Quote:
Originally Posted by K-W
I can read just fine. Just because two things arguably fall under the same rule doesnt make them the same thing.
Seriously lol, you see but you dont read.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kwekwek
Lett me start with suggesting you to read before you post. It may have well been 2 different cases, but it applies to the same rule. Thus the 2 cases and its outcome can be compared.
So where exactly do I say its the same thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by K-W
but its also possible that they interpret the rule differently than you do and that accounts for the differences. The latter seems more likely on the face, can you give me any reasons I should believe the former?
We're already way past this. You just didnt comment on my argument why the tactic shouldnt have been allowed in the 1st place. Which I already explained in another post on this thread.


Quote:
Originally Posted by K-W
No that isnt what I said at all.

I said that we arent talking about people who work independently whether they target 1up, exilition or just whoever attacks them. We are talking about support planets, meaning there is evidence that they are acting for the sake of an alliance. This is the case in all support planet cases, determing if the planet is acting to support an alliance or not. Nobody has ever proposed shutting down all cov oppers who target a specific alliance. Just as you wouldnt get shut down for occassionally defending a friend of yours in another alliance.
Than where is this evidence I keep hearing you talk about. That's another 1 of my questions you still havent answered. And what the hell was the criteria for a cov opper to be closed on grounds of beeing a support planet? How can you even suggest that only 1 alliance benefits from 1 alliance beeing cov opped repeatedly? Surely the alliances right behind and right infront of that alliance in the rankings benefit from it that its improvement is beeing slowed down. Makes it easier to pull away and catch up is it not?
Could you also define occasionaly for me please. The problem with it is that its relative. Rules shouldnt be relative but should be crystal clear.


Quote:
Originally Posted by K-W
I will answer you in reverse order:

3. of course security centers were built, what does that have to do with anything?

2. an alliance randomly benefitting from a cov-ops action isnt what we are talking about, what we are talking about is planets who are working specifically to benefit one alliance

1. It is literally impossible to whine on a message board so why dont you keep the childish jibes to yourself. I have seen the results of coordinated cov-ops designed to impair planets, as to whether those planets were working with an alliance is not really something I can see. I can only say that if they are working with an alliance, they qualify as support planets to me and I hope the PA pfficials agree.
1. exactly, IF they are working with an alliance, yet what is the criteria for a cov op planet to be considered to be supporting a given alliance. Cov opping is a form of attacking and attacking isnt a form of supporting an alliance so that cant be it.

2. 1 alliance can never be the sole party benefitting from another alliance beeing cov opped. Explained that for a 2nd time already and a 3rd time isnt gonna happen.

3. If sec centres have been built, than what the hell is the problem. Because there must have been some complaining from the party beeing cov opped at PA admins/MH camp otherwise there wouldnt have been a problem in the 1st place.


Quote:
Originally Posted by K-W
No you are also left with the conclusion that members of PA team simply have a different opinion than you do. There is no reason to assume that they did it because 1up convinced them to do it. In fact it seems highly unlikely to me that PA team members would go against thier judgement and do what 1up told them it wanted instead. They aren't puppets.
But 1up did convince PA team from there point of view and thus got there tactic approved eventho the tactic was against the rule. This has nothing to do with PA Admins beeing 1up puppets what so ever. Nor did I ever state anything like that. Again 1up isnt to blame for this, why should I be blaming 1up for beeing good at convincing/lobbying/etc. Its just the poor decision and rule making MH/PA admins are doing atm
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