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Unread 8 Aug 2006, 14:18   #1
Tomkat
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A Tale of Confusion!

Inspired by this thread (which I found when googling for myself... yes I was bored), I've decided to chronicle my adventures (or lack of!) on here.

Occasionally I'll ask for advice and I want you guys to give it to me!

It'll be like one of those old Dungeons and Dragon type books where you're given options and have to go to page 97 if you want to go through the door and page 36 if you want to investigate the chest. Awesome.


The Situation

I'm currently very much single, and living in Woking with my dad. Providing the scan tomorrow goes well (fingers crossed) I then have to make some life decisions. It looks like I'll be going to live in Jersey for at least 4 months, then after that might stay there or move to London.

But you don't want to hear about that!

This thread is about a girl (hurrah!). Her name is Jenny.

I've known her since I was 12 or so, as she's one of my best friend's younger sisters*. She's 2 years younger than me.

Up until I was 18 she was just "his younger annoying sister". Then her and her friends started to come out drinking with us - and now we're all part of the same friendship group that meets during the uni holidays (they're all still at uni, being 3rd years).

Even then she was still just "his younger sister".

So up until about 2 months ago I didn't really speak to her. We were in the same friendship group and we'd exchange pleasantries but not much more.

She was also in a long-term relationship.

A few things have happened that have changed the situation though.

Firstly she is going to be in Jersey for the next year, as she's on a sandwich course. She then returns to Loughborough for her final year of university.

Secondly she has been on a "break" with her (ex)boyfriend since April. I'm one of the only people who knows about this, as she decided to tell me (but told me not to tell everyone else, as she doesn't like people gossiping about her).

NOW.

Like I said, up until 2 months ago we didn't do much except chat mildly in our friendship group. I had her on my MSN list but hardly ever spoke to her.

Then 2 months ago I decided to say "hello" to her and we ended up chatting. We only talked for an hour or so, but that's quite a long time for me on MSN (I get bored quickly, usually).

I realised "wow she's actually quite cool, I never realised".

So I got back to Jersey and whenever we'd all go out as a group, the two of us, at some point in the evening, would find ourselves ignoring the rest of the group and chatting together for about half an hour to an hour.



The Dilemma (here's where you come in!)

I'm attracted to her (as I expect you've worked out).

I don't know if she's attracted to me.

There are three main problems here.

PROBLEM ONE
The first is my friend Andreas. He's been single for about 3-4 years now. I can't rememebr the last romantic encounter he had with a girl (this includes "pulling"). His problem is that he's everyone's friend but noone's boyfriend. He also has ridiculously high standards but isn't so hot at flirting with girls (great at chatting and being their friend - not so good at taking it further).

Andreas used to be besotted by Jenny about 2 years ago. He never told her, but told most of us, and Jenny knew. Jenny thought of him as a close friend, but nothing more. Andreas seemed to just accept this situation.

This would be fine normally - nothing happened. This "love" (for want of a better word) from Andreas to Jenny lasted about a year though. And even now, we're not sure what he thinks about her. We (my friends) think it may be at the point where he's so used to adoring her that he can't even remember WHY he adores her.

So if I make a move on Jenny, and Andreas IS still infatuated with her, then it could spell disaster for us as friends. He's a very close friend and I wouldn't want to screw that up.


PROBLEM TWO
"Does the girl actually feel the same way about the boy"

I told one of her friends yesterday that I liked Jenny and her response was "errr - it's kind of obvious Tom". I thought I was incredibly subtle and my behaviour just seemed friendly. Apparently not!

So I want to find out if my feelings are reciprocated. I'm not normally like a lovesick teenager over this - normally I'd tell the girl or ask her out on a date. This is a different situation though, as rejection could spell utter humiliation for our valiant hero!


PROBLEM THREE
The (ex?)boyfriend

Now I'm not sure about this. She's still only on "a break" with this ex-boyfriend of hers - and has been for the last 4-5 months. I've asked her what this means and I don't think she really knows. I don't think she's very experienced with flirting or being single though.

I have no love for this guy - I've always thought he was a cock anyway (he went out with another of my friends before Jenny). Plus it's well known he's cheated on her on multiple occasions while she's been at uni.




OK. So here's where I need some advice! I'll be going to Jersey in about 2 weeks. I also will be chatting to her via texts/MSN in the meantime.

What I need to know is:

"Is it a good idea to pursue this, given the social risks involved?"

and

"How do I find out if she's interested in me back, without blurting it out?"

Oh - the first time I see her when I return will probably be on the Saturday night. It's her birthday and she's having a party at hers. I don't know if anyone has any ace ideas about that but I thought it might be useful for advice-givers!



It might sound really silly me being worried about this situation and yes I should just let things run their course, but I was wondering if anyone had any decent advice for me. I haven't told any of my friends about this, mainly because it'd get back to Andreas and I'm not sure how he'd react.




*I want to emphasise here that my friend doesn't have an issue with me or any of my other friends being attracted to his sister - that isn't a part of the problem at all.
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Last edited by Tomkat; 12 Aug 2006 at 00:52.
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Unread 8 Aug 2006, 14:22   #2
Knight Theamion
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Re: A Tale of Confusion!

So to what thread should I go if I want Andreas to have hot steamy sex with Jenny?
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Unread 8 Aug 2006, 14:23   #3
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Re: A Tale of Confusion!

kiss her on her birthday, but only on the cheek

"happy birthday"

*kiss on the cheek*

*hand around the small of her back*

the closeness will make her wonder and maybe she'll come find you later and make it closer
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Unread 8 Aug 2006, 14:28   #4
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Re: A Tale of Confusion!

Just do it.

If your mate Andreas is to rubbish to get together with Jenny its not your fault.
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Unread 8 Aug 2006, 14:28   #5
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Re: A Tale of Confusion!

If her friend had noticed you can bet that she, andreas and everyone else around probably has.

You shouldnt worry about andreas - since she wasnt interested in him in the first place and it sounds like hes accepted that.

You shouldnt worry about the ex either. If theyve been on a break then its for a reason - and since hes a prick and cheated on her a few times you should consider it your civic duty to rescue her from that relationship.
also, ask why she told you. Is she inviting you in? etc.

best place to find out is at her birthday. Get her a reasonably nice present etc and see how things go.
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Unread 8 Aug 2006, 14:30   #6
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Re: A Tale of Confusion!

put it in her pooper


seriously, you're already not ****ing her, so go for it. About Andreas, tell him that you're interested in Jenny and see how that goes.

One last piece of advise: be confident. Do you want this girl? Go for it.
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Unread 8 Aug 2006, 14:31   #7
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Re: A Tale of Confusion!

Ok ill go over this by using the individual problems

Problem 1
When i was in a similar situation i aked my friend, he told me he didnt like her anymore so i was fine with that. The best piece of advice i can offer is to be 100% honest. I have messed up with G/F and close frineds by simply not being as honest as i should have been. So in conclusion for this point you have to talk to your friend, if he likes her then you have to decide what is more important. Also ask him what would he feel like if you 2 did get together.


Point 2

The two easiest ways of knowing if "the girl likes the boy"

1) "Girl" plays with her hair putting her hands gently through it
2) she talks to you differently as if she cares, most of the time when you think a girl likes you she normally does althought blokes are typically bad at realising this and acting on it.

Point 3

If a girlfriend said to you she wanted a break, you know it would be over, well thats what i think anyway, To me a break means its over but were going to do it slowly.

The last point is how it would affect your social group, say you did get together what would happen if you broke up would you all still be cool??? I find most of the time everything is fine with groups of friends infact its better, you can see your g/f and your friends at the same time.


Overall my advice is talk to your mate if hes cool, go for it worst case scenario is she says no and feels flattered that you like her. Best case you get togehter and life is good.


So GL Tomkat hope i helped
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Unread 8 Aug 2006, 14:39   #8
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Re: A Tale of Confusion!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat
"Is it a good idea to pursue this, given the social risks involved?"
Yes. Your mate who may or may not still be mooning over her should understand. He swung and he missed. Time for someone else to step up to the plate.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat
"How do I find out if she's interested in me back, without blurting it out?"
I'm afraid you can't just pussyfoot around any more. You've been flirting for a while and she seems interested enough in you for you to make a move. Just say to her straight out that you wanna go out with her. I wouldn't say it to her on her birthday though.
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Unread 8 Aug 2006, 14:40   #9
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Re: A Tale of Confusion!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat
.

Secondly she has been on a "break" with her (ex)boyfriend since April. I'm one of the only people who knows about this, as she decided to tell me (but told me not to tell everyone else, as she doesn't like people gossiping about her).
Hello sailor.


Quote:
So I got back to Jersey and whenever we'd all go out as a group, the two of us, at some point in the evening, would find ourselves ignoring the rest of the group and chatting together for about half an hour to an hour.
o rly

Quote:
PROBLEM ONE
The first is my friend Andreas. He's been single for about 3-4 years now. I can't rememebr the last romantic encounter he had with a girl (this includes "pulling"). His problem is that he's everyone's friend but noone wants to go out with him. He also has ridiculously high standards but is terrible at flirting with girls.

Andreas used to be besotted by Jenny about 2 years ago. He never told her, but told most of us, and Jenny knew. Jenny thought of him as a close friend, but nothing more. Andreas seemed to just accept this situation.

This would be fine normally - nothing happened. This "love" (for want of a better word) from Andreas to Jenny lasted about a year though. And even now, we're not sure what he thinks about her. We (my friends) think it may be at the point where he's so used to adoring her that he can't even remember WHY he adores her.

So if I make a move on Jenny, and Andreas IS still infatuated with her, then it could spell disaster for us as friends. He's a very close friend and I wouldn't want to screw that up.
The fact is he's let it pass him by previously and is probably resigned to failure unless she instigates anything. As long as you aren't in his face constantly, this will not be a problem.

Quote:
PROBLEM TWO
"Does the girl actually feel the same way about the boy"

I told one of her friends yesterday that I liked Jenny and her response was "errr - it's kind of obvious Tom". I thought I was incredibly subtle and my behaviour just seemed friendly. Apparently not!

So I want to find out if my feelings are reciprocated. I'm not normally like a lovesick teenager over this - normally I'd tell the girl or ask her out on a date. This is a different situation though, as rejection could spell utter humiliation for our valiant hero!
I think being generally awesome at her birthday may be able to help TomKat go down this road.

Quote:
PROBLEM THREE
The (ex?)boyfriend

Now I'm not sure about this. She's still only on "a break" with this ex-boyfriend of hers - and has been for the last 4-5 months. I've asked her what this means and I don't think she really knows. I don't think she's very experienced with flirting or being single though.

I have no love for this guy - I've always thought he was a cock anyway (he went out with another of my friends before Jenny). Plus it's well known he's cheated on her on multiple occasions while she's been at uni.
A "break" for 4-5 months - seems like more than a break to me and I sense that if she wants some hot TomKat action (see solution problem 2), ex boyfriend will be on more than a "break".
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Unread 8 Aug 2006, 14:58   #10
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Re: A Tale of Confusion!

I agree with the first line of Flavius' post.
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Unread 8 Aug 2006, 15:29   #11
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Re: A Tale of Confusion!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat
PROBLEM ONE
The first is my friend Andreas. He's been single for about 3-4 years now. I can't rememebr the last romantic encounter he had with a girl (this includes "pulling"). His problem is that he's everyone's friend but noone wants to go out with him. He also has ridiculously high standards but is terrible at flirting with girls.

Andreas used to be besotted by Jenny about 2 years ago. He never told her, but told most of us, and Jenny knew. Jenny thought of him as a close friend, but nothing more. Andreas seemed to just accept this situation.

This would be fine normally - nothing happened. This "love" (for want of a better word) from Andreas to Jenny lasted about a year though. And even now, we're not sure what he thinks about her. We (my friends) think it may be at the point where he's so used to adoring her that he can't even remember WHY he adores her.

So if I make a move on Jenny, and Andreas IS still infatuated with her, then it could spell disaster for us as friends. He's a very close friend and I wouldn't want to screw that up.
Depends on what kind of a guy this Andreas person is. A normal guy probably wouldn't mind. He had his chance and either she wasn't interested or he blew it. It's not your fault if you should do better than him.
I can only tell you that I once was in the same situation as your friend (it didnt last that long though) and after the girl got together with a very good friend of mine I lost all sexual interest in her and we became just friends.
Quote:
PROBLEM TWO
"Does the girl actually feel the same way about the boy"

I told one of her friends yesterday that I liked Jenny and her response was "errr - it's kind of obvious Tom". I thought I was incredibly subtle and my behaviour just seemed friendly. Apparently not!

So I want to find out if my feelings are reciprocated. I'm not normally like a lovesick teenager over this - normally I'd tell the girl or ask her out on a date. This is a different situation though, as rejection could spell utter humiliation for our valiant hero!
This is a tough one. Ofc, there are about ten billion different body language signs that indicate she is interested in you. If you are bored enough you can read quite a lot on it on the internet. The problem is that most of them can also mean that she's just beeing friendly. You have to decide to go for it or not (<- best advice ever, isnt it?)
oh, and yes, apparently women can read you like an open book :/
Quote:
PROBLEM THREE
The (ex?)boyfriend

Now I'm not sure about this. She's still only on "a break" with this ex-boyfriend of hers - and has been for the last 4-5 months. I've asked her what this means and I don't think she really knows. I don't think she's very experienced with flirting or being single though.

I have no love for this guy - I've always thought he was a cock anyway (he went out with another of my friends before Jenny). Plus it's well known he's cheated on her on multiple occasions while she's been at uni.
After 4-5 month you can probably ignore him, especially if this break was her idea. And if it wasnt she should be over him by now.
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Unread 8 Aug 2006, 15:46   #12
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Re: A Tale of Confusion!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat
go to page 97 if you want to go through the door and page 36 if you want to investigate the chest
Euphamism alert!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat
Firstly she is going to be in Jersey for the next year, as she's on a sandwich course. She then returns to Loughborough for her final year of university.
Say hi to my university buddy for me - what department is she in, out of interest?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat
on a break
If it ever comes to confrontation, I expect a repeat of certain Friends episodes. You know the ones I'm talking about.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat
I told one of her friends yesterday that I liked Jenny and her response was "errr - it's kind of obvious Tom". I thought I was incredibly subtle and my behaviour just seemed friendly. Apparently not!
Depressing isn't it (I mean this in a sympathetic way, don't hurt me!). The splitting off from the group and chatting was probably a clue though.


PROBLEM ONE
It's really his problem not yours. Yes, it becomes your problem by proxy as it were, but if it's been made clear to him that she isn't interested then he needs to stop moonlighting and get on with things. I've been in that situation before myself and I've not held anything against friends who've done what you are proposing to do. I'm not saying it hasn't been hard sometimes, but it's not worth throwing away a friendship over something you can't get anyway. Hopefully he can see that or can be made to see that. Seconding the "ask him" option.


PROBLEM TWO
She knows you're interested. This is good, because however it goes you're not going to shock her or put her on the spot. If she's interested she'll be happy. If not she's probably thought about how to let you down gently. Being let down is, of course, not nice but at least it's not going to be a case of "aw hell naw!" yelled across a crowded room


PROBLEM THREE
It sounds like he basically is an ex. I assume she knows he's cheated too? Regardless she obviously doesn't feel that strongly about him right now. Is the dude himself likely to cause you any trouble?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat
"Is it a good idea to pursue this, given the social risks involved?"
Yes. Sometimes a guy just has to put himself first, am I right?

All in all it sounds like your best option is just to "blurt it out" although maybe with a bit more style! Like I said, she'll be prepared anyway.
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Unread 8 Aug 2006, 16:33   #13
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Re: A Tale of Confusion!

If you do go for it, watch out for the 'ex'.
I still get scared sometimes
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Unread 8 Aug 2006, 16:36   #14
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Re: A Tale of Confusion!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stew
If you do go for it, watch out for the 'ex'.
I still get scared sometimes :(


That's because you're made of twigs though :(
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Unread 8 Aug 2006, 17:19   #15
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Re: A Tale of Confusion!

Quote:
Originally Posted by meglamaniac
Say hi to my university buddy for me - what department is she in, out of interest?
Psychology - which are you in?

I bet I'll find you know her now
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Unread 8 Aug 2006, 17:32   #16
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Re: A Tale of Confusion!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dace
That's because you're made of twigs though
Well, yes, I suppose that does make it worse. Poor me
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Unread 8 Aug 2006, 17:51   #17
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Re: A Tale of Confusion!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat
Psychology - which are you in?

I bet I'll find you know her now
I flit between Computer Science and Information Science, as my course involves modules run by both. My home department (for things like personal tutor and course administration) is Computer Science though.

I very much doubt I know her. I did have a friend doing psychology but she finished last year, so she wouldn't even have been in the same year. So don't worry I won't be tracking her down to tell her to watch out for you... yet.
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Unread 8 Aug 2006, 18:19   #18
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Re: A Tale of Confusion!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat
"Is it a good idea to pursue this, given the social risks involved?"
This is a classic win/win situation.

Either you get with her or we get a hilarious new thread with pictures of you with drink in your face.
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Unread 8 Aug 2006, 19:21   #19
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Re: A Tale of Confusion!

TomKat, I live about 12 miles from Loughborough, so if you come see here/come on her, then we should go for a drink.
Now, if that's not an incentive to get with her, I don't know what is.

(PS, good luck tomorrow)
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Unread 8 Aug 2006, 21:16   #20
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Re: A Tale of Confusion!

Count me in to what stew said.
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Unread 8 Aug 2006, 23:08   #21
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Re: A Tale of Confusion!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat
His problem is that he's everyone's friend but noone wants to go out with him. He also has ridiculously high standards but is terrible at flirting with girls.
Hello me!

(oh come on, you even named him Andreas...)


On the plus side, I dropped my standards hugely and became more confident. This seems to be working, not that I did anything at the GD meet to prove that
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Unread 8 Aug 2006, 23:11   #22
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Re: A Tale of Confusion!

Quote:
Originally Posted by furball
Hello me!

(oh come on, you even named him Andreas...)


On the plus side, I dropped my standards hugely and became more confident. This seems to be working, not that I did anything at the GD meet to prove that
you shouldn't beat yourself up about it.

honestly I was flattered
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Unread 8 Aug 2006, 23:33   #23
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Re: A Tale of Confusion!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
you shouldn't beat yourself up about it.

honestly I was flattered
no no no no no



I'm flattered that you should think that I think of you in such a way. But no.
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Unread 8 Aug 2006, 23:34   #24
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Re: A Tale of Confusion!

Quote:
Originally Posted by furball
(oh come on, you even named him Andreas...)
I think his parents named him Andreas actually


Quote:
Originally Posted by furball
On the plus side, I dropped my standards hugely and became more confident. This seems to be working, not that I did anything at the GD meet to prove that
I don't know, the fat girl seemed ALMOST like she was giving in to your charms! Don't take the rejection from her to heart! :P
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Unread 8 Aug 2006, 23:34   #25
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Re: A Tale of Confusion!

Quote:
Originally Posted by furball
no no no no no



I'm flattered that you should think that I think of you in such a way. But no.
why is it that everyone I turn down always ends up bitter.
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Unread 8 Aug 2006, 23:38   #26
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Re: A Tale of Confusion!

You are thinking about starting up with a girl and then you will be moving? So, if you succeed, you can either 1) write threads about how terrible it is to be separated from your Jenny or 2) you can be a cheating bastard like her ex or 3) a combination of one or two.

Choices, choices.
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Unread 8 Aug 2006, 23:40   #27
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Re: A Tale of Confusion!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat
I don't know, the fat girl seemed ALMOST like she was giving in to your charms! Don't take the rejection from her to heart! :P
Could have slapped her thighs and rode the wave in....



But my penis would then reject me on account of "oh dear god WHY"
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Unread 8 Aug 2006, 23:44   #28
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Re: A Tale of Confusion!

Quote:
Originally Posted by dda
You are thinking about starting up with a girl and then you will be moving? So, if you succeed, you can either 1) write threads about how terrible it is to be separated from your Jenny or 2) you can be a cheating bastard like her ex or 3) a combination of one or two.
Or 4) Be happy he had good times he can look back on with a girl he really liked.

Not everything has to last forever. Or even a long time.
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Unread 9 Aug 2006, 00:01   #29
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Re: A Tale of Confusion!

Quote:
Originally Posted by dda
You are thinking about starting up with a girl and then you will be moving? So, if you succeed, you can either 1) write threads about how terrible it is to be separated from your Jenny or 2) you can be a cheating bastard like her ex or 3) a combination of one or two.

Choices, choices.
No, she's going to be in Jersey for the next year. I'm planning on moving to Jersey for 3-4 months and possibly longer.
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Unread 9 Aug 2006, 09:20   #30
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Re: A Tale of Confusion!

Quote:
Originally Posted by aestous
Point 2

The two easiest ways of knowing if "the girl likes the boy"

1) "Girl" plays with her hair putting her hands gently through it
2) she talks to you differently as if she cares, most of the time when you think a girl likes you she normally does althought blokes are typically bad at realising this and acting on it.
Ignore that.

Girls play with there hair when they are 15 and shit. They are more intelligent when they have sex regurlarly.

Anyhooo. If she likes you the key is eye contact. As simple as that. Nothing else, you dont even have to speak to her but just look at her from the other side of the room, eye contact and smile. That will mean way more than meaningless chat.

Remember its her party as well and she has to entertain everyone else. She has friends other than yourself so you cant hog her. That day the attention is already on her. Step back a bit and let others chat to her, whilst still smiling and getting the eye contact. Dont spend 3 hours of a 4 hour party chatting to her. You need her friends to be on your side too.

Oh she likes you, but you need to make sure you dont become friends. Hence spend less time chatting and more time flirting, eye contact, smiling etc. If you chat she might make you a friend.

On Andreas, in this situation personally I wouldnt do anything until I knew how I felt. Its a simple rule. If a friend of yours had/has/wants/rapes a girl you ask if you can try it on.

"Do you still like Jenny"

"No"

"Would you mind if I tried it on?"

"No"

or it could be

"Do you still like Jenny"

"Yes, why?"

"I think she looks hot and we get on "

"Im going to ask her out"

"Good luck!"

Remember Family, Friends, Females. In that order. If Andreas is still cut up about it then cest la vie. Unless you envisage on marrying this bird etc even then I wouldnt ruin a friendship for a girl.

On the ex, well **** him. He sounds like a twat and he probably wouldnt be so cut up if he found out you were with her.
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Unread 9 Aug 2006, 11:22   #31
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Re: A Tale of Confusion!

Quote:
Originally Posted by furball
Could have slapped her thighs and rode the wave in....



But my penis would then reject me on account of "oh dear god WHY"
You'ld still be cleaning off the sweat.

:(((((((((
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Unread 9 Aug 2006, 17:35   #32
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Re: A Tale of Confusion!

pick out a personal gift for her birthday and try to be alone with her when you give it to her ,
you should be able to gauge from her reaction if there is any point pursueing her from that
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Unread 9 Aug 2006, 19:29   #33
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Re: A Tale of Confusion!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
Not everything has to last forever. Or even a long time.
How often I have explained this to my wife.
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Unread 25 Nov 2006, 13:21   #34
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Re: A Tale of Confusion!

Word up guys. Going back into hospital and stuff delayed this little tale of romance (or lack of, am i rite?!).

OK!
Update!

The girl has now broken up with her boyfriend. They aren't "on a break" any longer. This isn't public knowledge, as she doesn't like people gossiping about her and doesn't like people going "ohhhhh are you alright?". Also she doesn't want anyone trying it on now they know she's single. She told me though! That's a good sign - right?

Now what I'd like is to simply ask her on a casual date. Going for dinner is way too full on, and drinks obviously means alcohol - and I know some girls don't like the idea of drinks for a first date as it might mean they get sloshed and do thnigs they wouldn't do if sober. So I was thinking coffee.

I'm worried about the knockback - if I get rejected then we're all in the same group of friends and it'll be embarrassing. I know the advice I'd give someone is "screw it - it'll be forgotten soon enough" but I still don't like being embarrassed.

The only way I can think of is to ask her out for coffee (or similar) when slightly drunk in a half-jokey way, then if she says "ermmm no thanks" then I can pretend I was joking or something by giving an over-the-top reaction to her rejection. This would dampen the awkwardness.

What do people think?!

Oh she's still in Jersey by the way so I won't be seeing her for 3-4 weeks anyway - we speak online etc though!
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Unread 25 Nov 2006, 13:58   #35
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Re: A Tale of Confusion!

I think she is waiting for an offer from you, Tom.
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Unread 25 Nov 2006, 14:34   #36
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Re: A Tale of Confusion!

Yeah, go for it. She's let you know that she's single - i.e. telling you is a priority above telling a lot of other people (making it public knowledge). And you can handle getting knocked back a hell of a lot better than most people.
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Unread 25 Nov 2006, 17:40   #37
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Re: A Tale of Confusion!

I think you answered your own question anyway.

I've been in similar situations before (as I'm sure you have) and the knockback is just a risk you have to take. So long as your mates aren't wankers the worst you'll get is a few lighthearted jokes - which I'm sure you can counter as you seem to be a quick witted, funny chap - and maybe some awkwardness with the girl in question for a bit. She'll get over it as will you, so all you have to decide is are the rewards worth the risks?
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Unread 25 Nov 2006, 18:55   #38
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Re: A Tale of Confusion!

Quote:
she's one of my best friend's younger sisters

theres someone else u need to talk to as well i think .. cos if you dont set ground rules with your mate .. you'll not have a mate anymore, it not just his sister ... its his little sister and no matter how annoying she was as a child...
he'd probably kill for her.
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Unread 25 Nov 2006, 22:15   #39
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Re: A Tale of Confusion!

Taking advice from me on romantic matters is just asking for trouble but ...

Ask her out. Coffee or lunch is fine. Also:


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat
The only way I can think of is to ask her out for coffee (or similar) when slightly drunk in a half-jokey way, then if she says "ermmm no thanks" then I can pretend I was joking or something by giving an over-the-top reaction to her rejection. This would dampen the awkwardness.

Don't make a joke of it. If you're straight up and she says no then at least she still knows you're into her (incase she changes her mind down the line).
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Unread 26 Nov 2006, 17:31   #40
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Re: A Tale of Confusion!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dace
Taking advice from me on romantic matters is just asking for trouble but ...
I dunno, it's not normally that bad (your advice). You're like me though - you overanalyse and think these things too much, which often backfires as it gets us all paranoid

Cheers guys! I'll buck up my courage and ask her out for coffee or something! Cor blimey.
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Unread 26 Nov 2006, 17:53   #41
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Re: A Tale of Confusion!

If you want to ask her out without seeming to ask her out.....

Tell her you need to go shopping for __________________. (Could be clothes, a present for someone, whatever)

Tell her that you would really like her opinion on whatever. Tell her that you would buy her lunch for doing you this favor. Wander around stores talking and looking at things. A man going shopping is a perfect camoflage. Also, if you are fun on a shopping trip and don't seem to be hurried, she will think well of you. If she turns you down no harm. If she goes and things go well at the end you can say, "This was fun. Maybe we could do something else sometime."
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Unread 26 Nov 2006, 18:12   #42
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Re: A Tale of Confusion!

Quote:
Originally Posted by dda
If you want to ask her out without seeming to ask her out.....

Tell her you need to go shopping for __________________. (Could be clothes, a present for someone, whatever)

Tell her that you would really like her opinion on whatever. Tell her that you would buy her lunch for doing you this favor. Wander around stores talking and looking at things. A man going shopping is a perfect camoflage. Also, if you are fun on a shopping trip and don't seem to be hurried, she will think well of you. If she turns you down no harm. If she goes and things go well at the end you can say, "This was fun. Maybe we could do something else sometime."
I did all of that except "Maybe we could do something else sometime" also when I offered to buy her lunch she turned it down stating she had already eaten before she came out. It backfired on all counts and we went into the magical world of friends territory and her thinking "is he gay".

Other than that, great plan
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Unread 27 Nov 2006, 12:55   #43
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Re: A Tale of Confusion!

My advice is that you should take up the violin. There's an in-joke between me and my psyche here, but I forget what it is. I often find these problems a little bemusing. I mean, you're British aren't you? Just get drunk and tell her what you feel and then live with the consequences--"**** it". It's painfully simple.
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Unread 27 Nov 2006, 13:09   #44
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Re: A Tale of Confusion!

pig, dda's method was a sure winner back in the 1920's you know.
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Unread 27 Nov 2006, 13:57   #45
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Re: A Tale of Confusion!

TomKat, I'm pretty much in the same boat as you, just replace Jersey for Aberystwyth and Jenny for Hannah. Even the part for going on a "break".

I'm just going to wait a bit [well, till I go home for Xmas] before saying anything, and after I've said it, asking if she wants to meet up over the Xmas hols - if theres a chance for anything she'll say yes, if there isn't she'll say she's busy.

And if you go for coffee for the love of god DON'T spill coffee on her
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Unread 27 Nov 2006, 14:19   #46
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Re: A Tale of Confusion!

Could you not simply say "hey I haven't seen you in ages, fancy going for a coffee or something to catch up?"

Or will that slip you into the friend zone too easily?
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Unread 27 Nov 2006, 15:18   #47
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Re: A Tale of Confusion!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ste
Could you not simply say "hey I haven't seen you in ages, fancy going for a coffee or something to catch up?"

Or will that slip you into the friend zone too easily?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat
The girl has now broken up with her boyfriend. They aren't "on a break" any longer. This isn't public knowledge, as she doesn't like people gossiping about her and doesn't like people going "ohhhhh are you alright?". Also she doesn't want anyone trying it on now they know she's single. She told me though! That's a good sign - right?
Sounds like he could be in the friends zone.

If she doesn't want anyone trying it on, heed her advice. If you say lets do drinks etc then she will think its as friends as she has already told you she doesnt want a relationship.

Thats what I reckon anyway.
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Unread 27 Nov 2006, 15:20   #48
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Re: A Tale of Confusion!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ste
Could you not simply say "hey I haven't seen you in ages, fancy going for a coffee or something to catch up?"

Or will that slip you into the friend zone too easily?
Well I think if we spent time together one-on-one more than once or twice then it will "become something", as I can't recall the last time we did something as just the two of us (if ever). We're in the same group of friends which is why going somewhere as a pair would probably be gossiped about by my other friends (Jersey is kind of like that... ), and regarded as us being "couply".

dda's idea is good actually - I was planning on doing something like that.


Quote:
Originally Posted by pig
Sounds like he could be in the friends zone.

If she doesn't want anyone trying it on, heed her advice. If you say lets do drinks etc then she will think its as friends as she has already told you she doesnt want a relationship.

Thats what I reckon anyway.
That's what I'd normally say.

She isn't the kind of girl I'd usually be attracted to anyway. She's kind of innocent - she's only ever kissed 7 guys, and the only one she's ever slept with is the boyfriend she just broke up with. She's inexperienced in the whole dating thing.

I expect I am in the friends zone - but screw it - I might as well crash and burn and find out! Like I said above - doing anything as just us two, with no others around, would be conceived by most of our mutual friends as "something going on" as it's kind of unusual for any of our friends to do that. Most of the time we go out in a relatively large group (or at least 3 or 4 people).
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Unread 27 Nov 2006, 15:24   #49
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Re: A Tale of Confusion!

Yes dda's idea is good, but it didn't work for me.

I believe this to be the reason for a few things. Firstly it could scream gay. Gay equates to friends. You could be her gay jersey friend. You eat chocolate, shop for shoes and drink pina colladas next to the beach.

Lets face it there is nothing more anti man than shopping. Shopping is a female domain.

Secondly are you at your best when your shopping? Im a cnut when im shopping. It bores me, annoys me, just the whole thing is painful. Hence why i will never ever go on a "date" shopping as my personality doesn't come out.

I would much rather go to the zoo or something.
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Unread 27 Nov 2006, 15:26   #50
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Re: A Tale of Confusion!

Quote:
Originally Posted by pig
I would much rather go to the zoo or something.
Taking a prospective girlfriend to a Villa match isnt a great idea
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