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Unread 1 Jul 2007, 23:38   #151
torstein.gran@g
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Re: Cov Ops

No, before protection ended they maimed Feudalism and then told everyone they could change government. So you had the same choices as everyone else at that point, which was very early in the game.

well goverment and race often stick togheter,why not a restart? it was only 23 ticks gone.i diddent want to be a terran cov-op guy
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Unread 1 Jul 2007, 23:40   #152
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Re: Cov Ops

Quote:
Originally Posted by H1TMANish
Have you perhaps considered the fact that the support planet rule is so vague and inconsistent that it is difficult to tell where the rules are being breached? MH can't even state what is and isn't against the rules with any sort of consistency, and *scendancy have done everything in their power to ensure they are not breaking the rules (in that JBG went and consulted MH).

You also say Ascendancy are the people ruining and exploiting the game for everyone, but you would be hard pressed to find an alliance with as many people outspoken enough to try to suggest positive changes for the game. Your comments seem to ignore everything that anyone has posted and continually follow your tired and inaccurate agenda.
I am actually saying Asc is breaking the alliance limit rule as the most important thing. Indirectly that also means breaking the support planet rule in an organised mannor thats just makes it even worse.

Why on earth have alliance rankings if they are pointless? 25% your members aint in tag and thats giving you an unfair advantage.
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Unread 1 Jul 2007, 23:52   #153
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Re: Cov Ops

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red-
I am actually saying Asc is breaking the alliance limit rule as the most important thing. Indirectly that also means breaking the support planet rule in an organised mannor thats just makes it even worse.
What you're saying, and what many people have a problem with, is that a player shouldn't be allowed to make or join the alliance he wants, attack targets he wants in any way that he wants, and for whatever reasons he has, and to help whoever he wants in the game.

There's no abusing of alliance limit. If Ascendancy wins, Descendancy loses by definition. That's the only thing that the alliance limit accomplishes. It's the only thing that it can accomplish. There is no rule that will artificially balance all alliances. It's up to the alliances themselves to match everything their opponents do, counter it, or ultimately fail. That's kind of the point of the game, yes?
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Unread 1 Jul 2007, 23:58   #154
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Re: Cov Ops

Sure lets start playing football with 11 on one team and 15 on the other - Thatll be fun...

In competition games, like PA is also, its a basic need that there is a form of equal measssurement of the entitites competiting - If one alliance has 500 members and another has 100 then no matter how good the alliance with 100 members is they cant outscore the 500 member one.

So a basic requirement for meassuring and ranking alliances is that its done on fair and equal terms, and thats not the case when an alliance has 25% thier members actively helping outside of the main tag - I.e. _all_ covop members of Ascendancy (they all have low scores) are not in Asc tag, so they dont drag the tag down scorewise but only contribute to Asc interests.
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Unread 2 Jul 2007, 00:06   #155
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Re: Cov Ops

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red-
Sure lets start playing football with 11 on one team and 15 on the other - Thatll be fun...
Or let's play with one club having $300 mil bankroll to buy any player they can imagine for the sole reason they have a rich Russian owner, and the other one having $10k, or nearing bankrupcy. Oh wait, that does happen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red-
In competition games, like PA is also, its a basic need that there is a form of equal measssurement of the entitites competiting - If one alliance has 500 members and another has 100 then no matter how good the alliance with 100 members is they cant outscore the 500 member one.
Ascendancy has 66 players. Fair and equal and under the limit, yes?

And now I'm officially the last one to back out of this "debate".
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Unread 2 Jul 2007, 00:11   #156
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Re: Cov Ops

66+18 = ?
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Unread 2 Jul 2007, 00:12   #157
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Re: Cov Ops

= Planetarion login question. I don't think I can find any other relevance to this game.
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Unread 2 Jul 2007, 00:18   #158
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Re: Cov Ops

btw some alliance got smarter players and more experience players then others but everyone else still has to stay under 70 players, unlike asc
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Unread 2 Jul 2007, 00:26   #159
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Re: Cov Ops

You know what? If you have a problem with it, you know where we are. Our co-ord list is public. You can either continue to bark here and prove yourself to be nothing more than a yapping bitch or you can do something about it ingame.

I wouldn't take bets on it personally though, as it's pretty obvious what you'll choose.
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Unread 2 Jul 2007, 00:31   #160
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Re: Cov Ops

could i get the address list instead
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Unread 2 Jul 2007, 00:32   #161
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Re: Cov Ops

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red-
I am actually saying Asc is breaking the alliance limit rule as the most important thing. Indirectly that also means breaking the support planet rule in an organised mannor thats just makes it even worse.

Why on earth have alliance rankings if they are pointless? 25% your members aint in tag and thats giving you an unfair advantage.
Do you have some problem with reading comprehension? By definition they are two alliances. I will repeat this for the umpteenth time: Descendancy is an alliance in its own right. It plays for itself. Ascendancy is an alliance in its own right. It plays for itself. There is no organisation or coordination guiding one alliance for the benefit of the other. Hell, there is scarcely any coordination at all and that is the way Ascendancy works. Therefore, there is no breach in alliance limit.
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Unread 2 Jul 2007, 00:47   #162
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Re: Cov Ops

Quote:
Originally Posted by CBA
Tbh what Ascendancy have done is not the problem, its that the admins have allowed this to be used/abused, If the round restarted today with same stats etc i would of gone down the same route, seems fun...
but with AndroX point about playerbase into consideration i really think that is the PA Admins fault.....

Its up to the admin to make this game better, all the players can do is suggest, if the admin dont wanna do anything then abuse will happen every round and every round more player will leave.
We don't really want to abuse anyone. It's the fact that you squeal so much that makes us enjoy it
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Unread 2 Jul 2007, 00:54   #163
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Re: Cov Ops

Quote:
Originally Posted by H1TMANish
Do you have some problem with reading comprehension? By definition they are two alliances. I will repeat this for the umpteenth time: Descendancy is an alliance in its own right. It plays for itself. Ascendancy is an alliance in its own right. It plays for itself. There is no organisation or coordination guiding one alliance for the benefit of the other. Hell, there is scarcely any coordination at all and that is the way Ascendancy works. Therefore, there is no breach in alliance limit.
The problem here is that its by _your_ definition. If it had just been such that atleast some of the covop Asc members where actually tagged in Asc and not Desc, but no. Prior to round you guys made sure that all the covoppers joined the Desc tag and not the main tag where you need as much score as you can get for alliance rankings. Instead you put in the support planets, and a few others to make it look better into Descendancy.

Ofcause you didnt plan it... one should be quite the moron to believe that.
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Unread 2 Jul 2007, 01:03   #164
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Re: Cov Ops

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red-
Prior to round you guys made sure that all the covoppers joined the Desc tag and not the main tag where you need as much score as you can get for alliance rankings.
Where did you get this fantastic bit of information, because it is completely untrue. There is no command structure to make anyone do anything. Have you not been reading?
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Unread 2 Jul 2007, 01:06   #165
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Re: Cov Ops

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red-
The problem here is that its by _your_ definition. If it had just been such that atleast some of the covop Asc members where actually tagged in Asc and not Desc, but no. Prior to round you guys made sure that all the covoppers joined the Desc tag and not the main tag where you need as much score as you can get for alliance rankings. Instead you put in the support planets, and a few others to make it look better into Descendancy.

Ofcause you didnt plan it... one should be quite the moron to believe that.
This isn't true. Nobody was denied membership in one alliance or the other. We leave that sort of thing up to alliances who have people who enjoy giving orders. That quote I showed you of what started descendancy as a tag between myself and jester is quite true. If you don't believe me, I can't say I care. Luckily for me your opinion is about as relevant as the opinion of a pile of horse manure on the state of grand unification theory. You are a sad, dull little man.
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Unread 2 Jul 2007, 01:07   #166
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Re: Cov Ops

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red-
The problem here is that its by _your_ definition.
No it's not, you ignorant twat. Do I need to point out again that JBG talked to the multihunters?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red-
Prior to round you guys made sure that all the covoppers joined the Desc tag and not the main tag where you need as much score as you can get for alliance rankings.
Bullshit. I joined the Descendancy tag because that's what I ****ing felt like. Not because someone told me to, not because it was part of some grand plan, it's just what I wanted. Don't assume things you don't know jackshit about. The simple fact is that you don't have the slightest clue what you're talking about, and you make that painfully clear by every single post you make.

And now I will follow Talin's example, I really cba any more.
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Unread 2 Jul 2007, 01:15   #167
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Re: Cov Ops

Do I need to point out again that JBG talked to the multihunters?

yes ,please do
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Unread 2 Jul 2007, 01:21   #168
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Re: Cov Ops

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red-
... wild speculation ...
(no point in quoting the whole post again)

Where is your evidence for any of this? Seriously, where are you getting your intel from?

Is it really beyond the bounds of possibility that an alliance which has no functional HC* might simply have ended up with too many members for one tag, so the members who aren't playing actively ended up playing in a separate tag? And since they're not playing actively, some** of those have researched covops? It sounds quite plausible to me, without being any kind of conspiracy. I am flattered by your belief that we're that clever and that our reputation is still such that we are regarded as the source of all evil in the universe, but I have to admit that we are just not that smart. We do have some very smart people who know how to play the game better than 99% of other people, but there's no Ascendancy conspiracy to use covops or abuse the alliance limit or whatever you're suggesting.

* We have no real HC as such. The HC of the Ascendancy tag is the first person to register the tag in-game, and everyone has ops in the private channel.

** Mostly mz, it seems. That he has done enough covops alone to create the appearance of a whole alliance of covopers is one of the funniest things I have seen in many rounds. For what it's worth, I'm in the Descendancy tag and I haven't even researched covops (though this thread has inspired me to do so as soon as possible!)
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Unread 2 Jul 2007, 01:33   #169
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Re: Cov Ops

Quote:
Originally Posted by H1TMANish
There is no command structure to make anyone do anything. Have you not been reading?
Possibly there is some confusion over this in the minds of non *cendancy ppl. There _really_ isn't a command structure. At all. I've played quite a number of rounds, in quite a number of alliances. Always there was some sort of interview with a HC before you were allowed to join. Not so in *cendancy. I was sponsored by a member, on the bot, with pretty much no human intervention at all. 36 hours later, I was able to invite to #ascendancy.

No one told me to go cov ops, it just sounded fun. No one told me to join descendancy, I pretty much picked at random. The closest thing I know of to a HC is JBG, and I've never even spoken him. This is the strength of playing with adult, mature people who really don't take themselves too seriously.

And you know what? I'm having more fun this round than I have in ages. I wholeheartdly recommend playing the asc way. It's just better.
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Unread 2 Jul 2007, 01:37   #170
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Re: Cov Ops

Quote:
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This is the strength of playing with adult, mature people who really don't take themselves too seriously.
You may have gone a little too far here
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Unread 2 Jul 2007, 01:40   #171
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Re: Cov Ops

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red-
Soveh: You got plenty errors in your post i.e. jammer will have to build quite a lot of factories + build sec centers i.e. they wont have more then max jammers meaning dist whore strategy is futile now.
Yes and no; the number of factories you need depends on your population, how much resources you are trying to push through, your government and the number of factories. If you were going to be a distwh0re, you'd want some combination of the above to keep production times decent whilst not sacrificing security - thus, you might not actually need all that many factories. Or you could be patient and just wait for ships to take longer. or have smaller orders.

But yes, it would be harder to do, but you'll still find yourself much more difficult to get fleet scanned by your targets, so if you pick a good faking race like Zik, you can still be a pain in the arse. DCs who arent proper scanners will find it hard too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by torstein.gran@g
Also during this round Pa team completely maimed Feudalism making it useless, but they wont change dictatorship??? Where the logic in thier behavoir?
PA team overlooked the production time impact of having cheaper ships. No-one, whether in the beta or not, pointed this out to them, so it was "fixed" to remove what turned out to be an unintentional oversight. Whether this "completely maimed" the government or not, i'm not sure. It definately resulted in me picking a different government though .
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Unread 2 Jul 2007, 05:09   #172
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Re: Cov Ops

Stealth 125% for a winner-winner?

The issue is, again, that I can imagine had I participated in the betatesting, I would have paid no attention - or very little - to covert operations either. Why? Because you really need to look very carefully to even notice they've been seriously altered before it blows on your face.
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Unread 2 Jul 2007, 05:18   #173
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Re: Cov Ops

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk
Bullshit. I joined the Descendancy tag because that's what I ****ing felt like. Not because someone told me to, not because it was part of some grand plan, it's just what I wanted.

Mind if I ask you, if you're all (the Descendancy piece) still sharing arbiter with Ascendancy, and bot, and channel, and so on?
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Unread 2 Jul 2007, 05:31   #174
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Re: Cov Ops

Channel: No. Bot/arbiter: I don't know, who knows what goes on in their descendancy channel.

If they are, isn't that similar to two alliances sharing an arbiter though?
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Unread 2 Jul 2007, 05:52   #175
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Re: Cov Ops

loling pretty hard at the whole idea there would be any organisation between asc and desc when theres clearly no organisation inside the said alliances
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Unread 2 Jul 2007, 07:34   #176
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Re: Cov Ops

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Originally Posted by H1TMANish
You may have gone a little too far here
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Unread 2 Jul 2007, 08:33   #177
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Re: Cov Ops

Quote:
Originally Posted by NitinA
Channel: No. Bot/arbiter: I don't know, who knows what goes on in their descendancy channel.

If they are, isn't that similar to two alliances sharing an arbiter though?
True.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hude
loling pretty hard at the whole idea there would be any organisation between asc and desc when theres clearly no organisation inside the said alliances
Yeah, but there's really a thin red line between having the same guys on the same channels: when you have two alliances that effectively have their members sit on the same channel - - from my point of view, that's already organization that makes it more than just two ceparate entities. You can't hide behind the "there's no organization" (which is also a blatantly wrong, see below) excuse indefinately and claim that that makes you somewhat special, as it's not like many alliances out there have that much more organization either. One could move on to say that if Descendancy and Ascendancy share channel, it's pretty probable that the Descendancy cov op team might help Ascendancy members on their tasks (ie. blow factories when attacking, smash distorters), but then again there's always been an element of sharing and caring in what comes to scans (and covert operations are merely an extent of them). I might even dare to argue that there was a round with Omen when the organization was inferior to that of Ascendancy.

While there is clearly little organization (it's vain to claim there is none, as the sole excistance of the channel, the bot with access, arbiter, and target booking commands) it will be impossible to deny there is no organization at all. If there was absolutely no organization, there wouldn't be a channel, definately no arbiter or a bot with similar function, maybe even not a tag. An organization has to start somewhere.

I'm not trying to accuse either party (hereby Ascendancy and Descendancy) of doing anything against the rule, as it's obvious that they have the acceptance of the multimorons to whatever they are up to. What I am trying to figure out, though, is that what is really allowed and what not - but I guess I'll have to throw Fiery a query and spit my questions there once I manage my way back to the wonderful world of internet relay chat.

I guess my whole drivel just underpins the vanity of the certain mentioned rules.
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Unread 2 Jul 2007, 12:24   #178
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Re: Cov Ops

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I guess my whole drivel just underpins the vanity of the certain mentioned rules.
This entire thread does. Unfortunately people in charge are unlikely to see it that way.

I expect more rules to patch the holes (and at the same time allow for new "exploits"), rather than the abolition of the rules that actually create them.
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Unread 2 Jul 2007, 14:31   #179
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Re: Cov Ops

How I see it (although these things have been pointed out already I just want to make a summary):

1 ) Cov Ops has been made more powerful. Its now a worthy part of the game instead of a fun side thing that doesn't have that much effect in the grand scheme of things. Although I never spend much time on Cov Opping myself I like the added depth to the game.

2 ) Security is pretty much all or nothing. Having 100 alert is useless, might as well have 70. Having 115 is pretty much the bottom. And most will go for 130+ or not bother at all. So all the elaborate Guards and Centers seem like fun but in reality there isn't much customization. Its just two questions: Do I go for immunity or not. If yes do I focus on Guards or Centers. (Most will decide government on other things so that won't really be a question here.). Maybe the Dictatorship Stealth bonus moved things too high.

3 ) Disting has been nerfed by a simultaneous implementation of Production Points and an increase of Cov Op power. Scanners divide constructions over Amps and Security Centers. Disters divide constructions over Dists, Factories and Security Centers. Since a scanner only needs 1 amp more then a dister to make a successful scan distorting isn't a valid strategy anymore since in the end every decent scanner will have more amps then the decent disters. And hardcore scanners most certainly will have more amps than a hardcore distorter. Sadly I have no decent idea how to balance this without removing the production point system and I love the new production point system and certainly don't want to see it removed.


In conclusion: Nerfing the Dist strategy is a very bad thing. Without Disters scanners don't need much amps. Without much amps or distorters in the game Information Black Out becomes a lot less important and Cov Op in general will be reduced to a Bank Hacking fest (slight exaggeration of course but it will be reduced in importance again). It seems that at this time scanners are targeted more then disters which might be the only thing that is keeping the dist vs amp slightly balanced (I hear scanners worrying about their amps and suddenly start investing in sec centers while disters are lot less troubled and thus aren't investing in sec centers that much which means both parties might actually be investing equally in their amps/dists).



About the whole support rule, block forming thing. Unclear rules require rulings to define a more exact definition. PA team should decide what they want to allow and what not and I think the varying opinions here give an idea what the parties involved would like to see.

I myself don't like permanent blocks and support planets/alliances at all. Alliances should all strife for their best position on their own. Temporary naps or coops to take out a competitor is good (2+3 vs 1) but thats where I would draw the line. Alliances who work together because they share a common goal (1+2 are happy with being 1+2 and coop to stay that way), strategy (1 alliance goes for high position and the other one supports them in it not caring about their own position) or tactic (members of alliance x and y all score-whore-no-def-solo this game and just want to be a big group of napped people) are effectively forming one alliance and imho are circumventing the alliance limit. This is my ideal situation and don't ask me how to implement/enforce this in the game but thats how I would like to see it.
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Unread 2 Jul 2007, 17:19   #180
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Re: Cov Ops

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Sure lets start playing football with 11 on one team and 15 on the other - Thatll be fun...
If UEFA or whatever says that the team can play with 15 players, the team is doing nothing wrong. Weird comparison anyway.
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Unread 2 Jul 2007, 20:37   #181
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Re: Cov Ops

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spectator1
How I see it (although these things have been pointed out already I just want to make a summary):

1 ) Cov Ops has been made more powerful. Its now a worthy part of the game instead of a fun side thing that doesn't have that much effect in the grand scheme of things. Although I never spend much time on Cov Opping myself I like the added depth to the game.
I agree that Cov Ops as such is not a bad addition to the game.

Quote:
2 ) Security is pretty much all or nothing. Having 100 alert is useless, might as well have 70. Having 115 is pretty much the bottom. And most will go for 130+ or not bother at all. So all the elaborate Guards and Centers seem like fun but in reality there isn't much customization. Its just two questions: Do I go for immunity or not. If yes do I focus on Guards or Centers. (Most will decide government on other things so that won't really be a question here.). Maybe the Dictatorship Stealth bonus moved things too high.
I disagree somewhat. I have some distorters. Was cov opped with security at only just over 100 and stopped it. They didn't bother me any more. I did raise my alertness afterwards though.

Quote:
3 ) Disting has been nerfed by a simultaneous implementation of Production Points and an increase of Cov Op power. Scanners divide constructions over Amps and Security Centers. Disters divide constructions over Dists, Factories and Security Centers. Since a scanner only needs 1 amp more then a dister to make a successful scan distorting isn't a valid strategy anymore since in the end every decent scanner will have more amps then the decent disters. And hardcore scanners most certainly will have more amps than a hardcore distorter. Sadly I have no decent idea how to balance this without removing the production point system and I love the new production point system and certainly don't want to see it removed.
I disagree somewhat. Many scanners are democrats. Democrats have a lower alertness by default. This means that scanners will need more security centers.
If you look at the races then many distorter builders are terran, while many scanners are cathaar. Again space for the terrans to outbuild the scanners.
Distorters are not only meant to stop scanners. They also work against fleet analysis from the planet you attack.

Quote:
In conclusion: Nerfing the Dist strategy is a very bad thing. Without Disters scanners don't need much amps. Without much amps or distorters in the game Information Black Out becomes a lot less important and Cov Op in general will be reduced to a Bank Hacking fest (slight exaggeration of course but it will be reduced in importance again). It seems that at this time scanners are targeted more then disters which might be the only thing that is keeping the dist vs amp slightly balanced (I hear scanners worrying about their amps and suddenly start investing in sec centers while disters are lot less troubled and thus aren't investing in sec centers that much which means both parties might actually be investing equally in their amps/dists).
I think this is a good and clear analysis. But whatever the way population will be implemented next round, together with races it does offer some room to nerf the distorter strategy to remain a viable alternative in the future.
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Unread 2 Jul 2007, 21:54   #182
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Re: Cov Ops

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerbie2
I disagree somewhat. Many scanners are democrats. Democrats have a lower alertness by default. This means that scanners will need more security centers.
Firstly, really nice to see this thread back on topic. This I think is probably the issue of the round, and needs to be discussed.

Are many scanners democracies? I really can't see any advantage in it. All the scanners I've seen have been dictatorship or feudalism. And, at this point, most of the ones that didn't go dict don't have many amps.

Quote:
If you look at the races then many distorter builders are terran, while many scanners are cathaar. Again space for the terrans to outbuild the scanners.
This would be totally true, except for the cov op factor, which is probably unique to this round.
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Unread 3 Jul 2007, 01:25   #183
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Re: Cov Ops

I joined Descendany because JBG said I should join and I wanted to play the game in an alliance with Jester and JBG, because they are awesome.

So I joined and thought "LOL I WILL BE SHIT THIS ROUND".

Now I am in the top 100

I dunno how that happened.

Honestly we all play the game we want to play. Covoping doesn't excite me very much, so I've decided to play the game. It's been fun! Nobody tells me what to do or who to attack, I just find targets and launch attacks. There is no grand plan, and I certainly don't feel like I am cooperating with anybody. I just want to do the very best for my alliance and get us up the rankings! (we are 22nd )
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Unread 3 Jul 2007, 05:05   #184
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Re: Cov Ops

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cooling
I joined Descendany because JBG said I should join and I wanted to play the game in an alliance with Jester and JBG, because they are awesome.
So neither is Ascendancy anymore, huh?
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Unread 3 Jul 2007, 05:15   #185
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Re: Cov Ops

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Originally Posted by Tietäjä
So neither is Ascendancy anymore, huh?
Jonny left us

But I still see him occasionally!

It's great

You should join too! You'd love it in Descendancy, it's right up your alley.
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Unread 3 Jul 2007, 05:23   #186
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Re: Cov Ops

So you didn't make it to playing the game in an alliance with Jester then?
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Unread 3 Jul 2007, 10:42   #187
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Re: Cov Ops

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tietäjä
So neither is Ascendancy anymore, huh?
I HC ascendancy as a third party. It's fun.

I say HC, I really just do some of the things HC normally do in other alliances.
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Unread 3 Jul 2007, 13:59   #188
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Re: Cov Ops

I don't get it.
Why are people whining about a group of players trying to play in a non-generic way?
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Unread 3 Jul 2007, 16:25   #189
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Re: Cov Ops

I never really understood why Cathaar scanner are the mainstream and why they'd have to pick Democracy.

Research is important yeah. A Terran Dictator will have the full scan tree a lot later then a Cathaar Democrat true, but he will complete it eventually and he is able to compete with disters. A Cathaar Democrat will have difficulty scanning Terran Dictator Disters from tick 72 till he has maxed his buildings (which is fairly late in the game)... and from the moment the Terran Dictator Scanners have completed the Scan tree (which is still early in the game) until that time the Cathaar Democratic Scanners are second rate...

Yes, an alliance needs both scanners to start attacking and defending from tick 72 but I'd say the focus is on Terran Dictators.

Or am I missing something here... The only other reason I can think off to pick Cathaar as a scanner is being able to Cov op on the side. And I'd still pick Dictatorship above Democracy in that case.


Oh and I don't say Distorters become totally worthless. They still stop the occasional scanner and help against fleet scans. But massing Distorters as a strategy has been severely impaired. It used to be a battle between the top scanners and the top disters. Now there is no way to compete with scanners. In fact a distorter can expect a Cov Op attempt almost immediately after a important (=big alliance) scanner fails to get through. So they actually have to consider security from day one.

If it weren't for a few dedicated cov op planets out there aiming for amps the top scanners probably wouldn't even have to worry about security at all (until wars break out). In that worst case scenario a distorter would have about 15 Factories, 30 Centers and 105 distorters and a top scanner has maybe 3 Factories and 147 Amps... need I say more.
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Unread 7 Jul 2007, 00:06   #190
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Re: Cov Ops

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marv
People choose to go scanner for their alliance, how is this any different?

Having alliance cov-op'ers is just the same. If they can seek out and find their competitors for the top spot and hinder them by taking out their scanners, how is that them ruining it?

It's purely another offensive approach players / alliances can take, as opposed to doing it with fleets and SK ships.
Despite the fact TFD only plays for fun this round. I did suggest a covert ops galaxy, but several officers mentioned it would be pointless as cov ops aint that strong. I do however believe that an alliance that respects itself has at least 5 cov op players in its rank actively seeking out scanners. I also believe it only adds another dimension to the game and thus its allright.
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Unread 7 Jul 2007, 00:10   #191
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Re: Cov Ops

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spectator1
I never really understood why Cathaar scanner are the mainstream and why they'd have to pick Democracy.

Research is important yeah. A Terran Dictator will have the full scan tree a lot later then a Cathaar Democrat true, but he will complete it eventually and he is able to compete with disters. A Cathaar Democrat will have difficulty scanning Terran Dictator Disters from tick 72 till he has maxed his buildings (which is fairly late in the game)... and from the moment the Terran Dictator Scanners have completed the Scan tree (which is still early in the game) until that time the Cathaar Democratic Scanners are second rate...

Yes, an alliance needs both scanners to start attacking and defending from tick 72 but I'd say the focus is on Terran Dictators.

Or am I missing something here... The only other reason I can think off to pick Cathaar as a scanner is being able to Cov op on the side. And I'd still pick Dictatorship above Democracy in that case.


Oh and I don't say Distorters become totally worthless. They still stop the occasional scanner and help against fleet scans. But massing Distorters as a strategy has been severely impaired. It used to be a battle between the top scanners and the top disters. Now there is no way to compete with scanners. In fact a distorter can expect a Cov Op attempt almost immediately after a important (=big alliance) scanner fails to get through. So they actually have to consider security from day one.

If it weren't for a few dedicated cov op planets out there aiming for amps the top scanners probably wouldn't even have to worry about security at all (until wars break out). In that worst case scenario a distorter would have about 15 Factories, 30 Centers and 105 distorters and a top scanner has maybe 3 Factories and 147 Amps... need I say more.
You can counter that by having 2 support groups. 1 group covopping and 1 staying low on value and hoarding structure killers.
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