User Name
Password

Go Back   Planetarion Forums > Non Planetarion Discussions > General Discussions

Reply
Thread Tools Display Modes
Unread 4 Jun 2007, 10:04   #1
milo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,094
milo is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himmilo is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himmilo is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himmilo is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himmilo is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himmilo is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himmilo is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himmilo is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himmilo is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himmilo is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himmilo is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like him
Pay to stay jails [DDA]

I'd heard of these kinds of things in columbia. Where iirc the drug cartels effectively run things, but id never heard of it in 'developed' nations. Admitedly its nowhere near on the same scale and the people you er 'work with' aren't the ones they're looking for, but i was wondering how well known they are in california?

I'm really wondering about the possibilities of expanding it to any crime, you may not pay to stay somewhere with more freedoms but you could get a better cell. The money generated would go to help other inmate programs.
__________________
boobs
milo is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 4 Jun 2007, 10:15   #2
pyirt
nomen est omen
 
pyirt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Bristol, UK
Posts: 1,095
pyirt has a reputation beyond reputepyirt has a reputation beyond reputepyirt has a reputation beyond reputepyirt has a reputation beyond reputepyirt has a reputation beyond reputepyirt has a reputation beyond reputepyirt has a reputation beyond reputepyirt has a reputation beyond reputepyirt has a reputation beyond reputepyirt has a reputation beyond reputepyirt has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Pay to stay jails [DDA]

I don`t think they`ll expand it to any crime: ie murder, rape, armed robbery. You could have an asending "pay scale" reflecting on the severity of other crimes; the more serious, the more you pay etc.
__________________

Me=Hans_Blix
Views expressed are those of the author and not of any company or organisation I am associated with. Electronic communication can be forged and the integrity of this message is not guaranteed.
pyirt is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 4 Jun 2007, 10:22   #3
Nodrog
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 8,476
Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: Pay to stay jails [DDA]

I'm guessing theres some backstory behind this and its not quite as simple as the article makes out because as it stands this is one of the stupidest things I've read this month.

Quote:
I'm really wondering about the possibilities of expanding it to any crime, you may not pay to stay somewhere with more freedoms but you could get a better cell. The money generated would go to help other inmate programs.
You dont think theres an intrinsic problem with letting wealthy people buy better sentences?
Nodrog is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 4 Jun 2007, 10:49   #4
All Systems Go
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: London
Posts: 3,347
All Systems Go has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.All Systems Go has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.All Systems Go has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.All Systems Go has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.All Systems Go has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.All Systems Go has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.All Systems Go has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.All Systems Go has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.All Systems Go has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.All Systems Go has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.All Systems Go has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: Pay to stay jails [DDA]

Wait until Gorden Brown hears about this. First thing on is manifesto, after the evolution of the police state, of course.
__________________
The 20th century has been characterised by three developments of great political importance. The growth of democracy; the growth of corporate power; and the growth of corporate propaganda as a means of protecting corporate power against democracy.
All Systems Go is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 4 Jun 2007, 11:02   #5
Cooling
Tilting at windmills
 
Cooling's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 579
Cooling is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himCooling is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himCooling is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himCooling is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himCooling is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himCooling is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himCooling is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himCooling is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himCooling is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himCooling is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himCooling is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like him
Re: Pay to stay jails [DDA]

It seems like the perfect way to insinuate that society is prepared to accept a 'softly-softly' approach to white collar crime. Not that they seem to be using them for that purpose herel; but you could certainly extend the concept in that direction.

Wire fraud? Well have we got a deal for you sir! For only $2000 a day you can live in the 'lap of luxury', and help cross subsidise that super-max we would have put you in; all at the same time.

If nothing else, it introduces a degree of transparency to sentencing.
__________________
[Fury] [1up] [Ascendancy]
Cooling is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 4 Jun 2007, 11:24   #6
All Systems Go
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: London
Posts: 3,347
All Systems Go has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.All Systems Go has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.All Systems Go has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.All Systems Go has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.All Systems Go has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.All Systems Go has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.All Systems Go has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.All Systems Go has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.All Systems Go has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.All Systems Go has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.All Systems Go has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: Pay to stay jails [DDA]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cooling
It seems like the perfect way to insinuate that society is prepared to accept a 'softly-softly' approach to white collar crime. Not that they seem to be using them for that purpose herel; but you could certainly extend the concept in that direction.

Wire fraud? Well have we got a deal for you sir! For only $2000 a day you can live in the 'lap of luxury', and help cross subsidise that super-max we would have put you in; all at the same time.

If nothing else, it introduces a degree of transparency to sentencing.
As well as extending any actual disparities between rich and poor to the furthest possible point, short of people being able to 'opt-out' of a jail sentance for a one-off payment of £5000 or whatever.
__________________
The 20th century has been characterised by three developments of great political importance. The growth of democracy; the growth of corporate power; and the growth of corporate propaganda as a means of protecting corporate power against democracy.
All Systems Go is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 4 Jun 2007, 11:34   #7
Cooling
Tilting at windmills
 
Cooling's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 579
Cooling is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himCooling is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himCooling is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himCooling is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himCooling is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himCooling is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himCooling is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himCooling is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himCooling is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himCooling is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himCooling is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like him
Re: Pay to stay jails [DDA]

Even at the lower levels of offending, you might find that the collective wealth of criminal gangs could be used to provide their members with a cozy prison cell. I don't mean to suggest that the existance of pay-to-stay prison cells might incentivise gang membership, but this could be flagged as one potential flow on effect.

If prison is meant to have a deterrence effect - particularly for low level offending - then these facilities make no sense whatsoever.
__________________
[Fury] [1up] [Ascendancy]
Cooling is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 4 Jun 2007, 13:40   #8
G.K Zhukov
Evil inside
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 3,631
G.K Zhukov is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Pay to stay jails [DDA]

I guess people are willing to pay for not getting raped or beaten up.
__________________
<Germania>but you called Fury a bully, and that is terribly unfair
<Hicks>Occassionally individuals do things without Executive consent
<Dreadnought>You cant whois on Eclipse server without a registered nic, which mr ****stirrer doesnt have.
<Almeida> well i like to grow fat myself too, and when i have enough ships then i can engage in big battles
<Nantoz> Zhukov for Lord Protector!
<Jakiri> (Windows)XP was fine on release
G.K Zhukov is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 4 Jun 2007, 13:54   #9
pyirt
nomen est omen
 
pyirt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Bristol, UK
Posts: 1,095
pyirt has a reputation beyond reputepyirt has a reputation beyond reputepyirt has a reputation beyond reputepyirt has a reputation beyond reputepyirt has a reputation beyond reputepyirt has a reputation beyond reputepyirt has a reputation beyond reputepyirt has a reputation beyond reputepyirt has a reputation beyond reputepyirt has a reputation beyond reputepyirt has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Pay to stay jails [DDA]

Quote:
Originally Posted by G.K Zhukov
I guess people are willing to pay for not getting raped or beaten up.
Is n`t that exstortion?
__________________

Me=Hans_Blix
Views expressed are those of the author and not of any company or organisation I am associated with. Electronic communication can be forged and the integrity of this message is not guaranteed.
pyirt is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 4 Jun 2007, 13:56   #10
G.K Zhukov
Evil inside
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 3,631
G.K Zhukov is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Pay to stay jails [DDA]

No, it's called "the free market".
__________________
<Germania>but you called Fury a bully, and that is terribly unfair
<Hicks>Occassionally individuals do things without Executive consent
<Dreadnought>You cant whois on Eclipse server without a registered nic, which mr ****stirrer doesnt have.
<Almeida> well i like to grow fat myself too, and when i have enough ships then i can engage in big battles
<Nantoz> Zhukov for Lord Protector!
<Jakiri> (Windows)XP was fine on release
G.K Zhukov is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 4 Jun 2007, 16:57   #11
milo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,094
milo is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himmilo is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himmilo is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himmilo is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himmilo is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himmilo is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himmilo is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himmilo is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himmilo is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himmilo is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himmilo is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like him
Re: Pay to stay jails [DDA]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nodrog
You dont think theres an intrinsic problem with letting wealthy people buy better sentences?

Not better sentences better prison cells - just individual cells if you want. I'm not sure it is that bad an idea actually. They seem to have less problems with people who pay and putting some kind of onus to pay your own way and behave or go to shared facilities is a good way of controlling behaviour (though admitedly this is only being done on middle class drink drivers at the moment).

Prison reform programs are never going to be well funded by any government and i don't see an intrinsic problem with letting prisons generate an additional income. If you think about an analogy with taxes, 'flat rate' taxes or 'flat rate' prisons hurt the poor the most. Someone from a council estate who shared his cell with jeffrey archer was more affected by his prison term than archer. Giving rich people the opportunity to pay up to indiviudal cells and putting the money into helping the other prisoners is a better idea than leaving them all to fester in the same crap. And it evens up the financial hardship faced by prisoners.


edit the backstory is i read paris hilton was offered the opportunity to go to a pay jail but turned it down; i wanted to know what a pay jail was.
__________________
boobs
milo is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 4 Jun 2007, 21:06   #12
Dante Hicks
Clerk
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 13,940
Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: Pay to stay jails [DDA]

Quote:
Originally Posted by milo
Not better sentences better prison cells - just individual cells if you want. I'm not sure it is that bad an idea actually. They seem to have less problems with people who pay and putting some kind of onus to pay your own way and behave or go to shared facilities is a good way of controlling behaviour (though admitedly this is only being done on middle class drink drivers at the moment).
Arguably, it's the opposite. Prison probably does scare people wealthy people quite a lot for two reasons
i) It would probably destroy their career/business/etc
ii) They're frigthened of serving a harsh sentence, at least partially because it could involve them being in close contact with some very unpleasant people.

So imagine you're a reasonably senior guy in a company, making $100,000-$200,000. Your family might have a million dollars between them in cash, savings or equity. Someone offers you an inside trading tip, which could involve making millions but could also involve prison. If someone said "The worst you could happen is 4 years inside, which your family can pay $100,000 per year to ensure is not horrible" then I think more people would take the risk compared to "The worst that could happen to you is you'll be in prison where you might get shanked or repeatedly raped by someone with HIV".

Prison fails to work as a detterent against many groups, but I suspect that rich folks are not among them.

On a more general principle I think it's better if everyone shares the same outcomes where appropriate.
Dante Hicks is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 4 Jun 2007, 21:44   #13
Snurx
Dirte
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 5,573
Snurx spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldSnurx spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldSnurx spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldSnurx spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldSnurx spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldSnurx spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldSnurx spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldSnurx spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldSnurx spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldSnurx spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldSnurx spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus would
Re: Pay to stay jails [DDA]

The fact is that with plenty of cash you can buy yourself protection in prisons as it is. I think there's something fundamentally wrong with separating prisoners on behalf of their wallets on the outside, simply because the worst criminals will have it easiest (white collar, organized crime), if there is supposed to be a prison system at all.
In Norway, it's a known fact that if you're a rapist or child molester, you get easier prison conditions then ordinary criminals. The same goes for white collar. If they could add on even better conditions by the power of their wallets, then you would a even bigger class difference inside, and that would not be good for the general prison population or the population in general.

As a more general comment, it's "funny" that she serves for drunken driving, one of the worst crimes you can commit of the common ones in my opinion. Take a look at criminal statistics and see the cost of drunken driving in society when it comes to injuries, deaths and cost of repairs compared to crimes that gives much more severe prison sentences (burglary, theft, graffiti).
__________________
"Freedom, morality, and the human dignity of the individual consists precisely in this; that he makes waffles not because he is forced to do so, but because he freely conceives it, wants it, and loves it."
Snurx is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 5 Jun 2007, 01:32   #14
milo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,094
milo is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himmilo is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himmilo is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himmilo is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himmilo is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himmilo is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himmilo is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himmilo is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himmilo is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himmilo is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himmilo is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like him
Re: Pay to stay jails [DDA]

Just to clarify im not advocating more money equals more rights in prison, just that more money equals your own cell - to help with prison crowding if nothing else. If you think about it its not that different to the situation that exists now with tagging. AFAIK the limits of your property are marked out as the boundary which you must not cross, i vaguely remember archer saying he chose his country house as his base as opposed to his london flat as it had more room. Even if they've set a maximum amount of space that can be allocated (surely farmers can't mark out hectares?) theres still a discrepency between the rich and poor. Someone who is poor may have a tiny flat with 2-3 rooms whereas the penthouse of a rich person could occupy an entire floor. Society can't ignore difference in wealth but it can make it work to its advantage. Oh and this was pwnage if a little cruel
__________________
boobs
milo is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 5 Jun 2007, 05:13   #15
Tietäjä
Good Son
 
Tietäjä's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Finland
Posts: 3,991
Tietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better place
Re: Pay to stay jails [DDA]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snurx
In Norway, it's a known fact that if you're a rapist or child molester, you get easier prison conditions then ordinary criminals. The same goes for white collar. If they could add on even better conditions by the power of their wallets, then you would a even bigger class difference inside, and that would not be good for the general prison population or the population in general.
Yeah, same applies a bit everywhere, I suppose. Rapists and child molestors have a tendency of getting mugged and arse****ed inside.

Quote:
Originally Posted by milo
edit the backstory is i read paris hilton was offered the opportunity to go to a pay jail but turned it down; i wanted to know what a pay jail was.
Also, if you're Paris Hilton, you'll likely get an easier spot. They've handpicked her up a cellmate that's unlikely to anal fist her too many times a day; or at least it's less likely she'll be taking pictures while doing so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by milo
Just to clarify im not advocating more money equals more rights in prison, just that more money equals your own cell - to help with prison crowding if nothing else
The bottom line probably is, that it's not supposed to be a spot for your own cell and luxury - in fact, any luxury you can buy pretty much ruins the whole purpose of the institution.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
Someone offers you an inside trading tip, which could involve making millions but could also involve prison. If someone said "The worst you could happen is 4 years inside, which your family can pay $100,000 per year to ensure is not horrible" then I think more people would take the risk compared to "The worst that could happen...
Economics of crime. Risk averse people (the majority of the world) are still bound to avoid the risk, mainly because the gains don't sufficiently improve their status. Risk loving people would, on the other hand, be more tempted, as they're controlled more by the punishment than the gain.
Tietäjä is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 5 Jun 2007, 05:26   #16
Nodrog
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 8,476
Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: Pay to stay jails [DDA]

This is all rather silly; if the prison system is underfunded then the solution is to give it more funding, not to allow rich people to buy better sentences. Its not like there isnt enough tax money floating around anyway; the legal system is one of the few legitimate purposes of government and should be priorirised over other things. Maybe if this was some theoretical discussion about how to fund prisons in an idealised taxation-free society then this sort of thing could be what youd consider, but that isnt the situation we're in at present.

Also, 'prison overcrowding' is a pseudo-problem given that a large percentage of people in prison shouldnt be there in the first place.

Last edited by Nodrog; 5 Jun 2007 at 05:35.
Nodrog is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 14:47.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2002 - 2018