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Unread 12 Jun 2006, 20:20   #1
s|k
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Game design, need input

I am making a game. It is pretty ridiculous, but I am having fun. It is called 'Ogre Masters' (don't ask me why, I regged the domain years ago). I actually had several running versions of the game at one point in 2004, but they were pretty damn buggy and had serious design flaws. I hadn't picked it up until now, just because it is always something I wanted to complete.

So now I am thinking about how to design the game play, and I am trying to be innovative and original and creative and you know I probably am failing 100%.

Here is what I currently have planned:

Every player gets 1 ogre to control. You can buddy up with a few people in a 'den.'

Ogres have a score, a level, experience, and gold, and can be equipped with offensive and defensive items.

There are several ways to gain score and grow.

There is the combat option: via NPC or other players. Gain xp and gold. (possibly take items, gold)?
When one den defeats all the members of another den, the entire winning den gets extra points. Theoretically one powerful ogre in a den could defeat an entire enemy den and gain all those points for their den, but this is unlikely because some classes of ogres will be less able to fight other classes (there are three classes).

Non combat option:

Users create items (weapons, spells, other items) and sell them. Gain gold, buyer gains score,xp or something.
Users rate other user's items: score gain (or loss for negative rating).
Users post in ongame forum, gain or lose gold/score based on user rating of posts (bit of inspiration from here).
Users as a den or as individuals create NPC's and NPC dens and gain points from creating them, and they also get points when their NPC defeats a user. NPC's are not controllable, a user would have to attack an NPC, and they would do this for the xp and gold incentive. So if the challenger wins they gain gold and xp and the NPC creators lose something, but if the challenger loses they lose just like they would lose whatever in regular combat, but the creators win something.
Creators of NPC's and dens can also gain/lose score/xp/gold/something based on user ratings of their creation.

I don't want to get too technical just in case this thread sparks no interest, but I'll divulge more if anyone can/wants to give some input.

My biggest concern is 1)Is this interesting fun, etc 2)Even if I design the perfect interface (lol) is this too difficult of a system to learn, spark interest, etc. 3)Is there enough incentive to fight others. 4)too open to abuse 5)others

Thanks for any ideas.
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Unread 12 Jun 2006, 20:29   #2
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Re: Game design, need input

i'm pretty sure you could bully most of GD into playing for a while. Seems like a fun game though.
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Unread 12 Jun 2006, 20:34   #3
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Re: Game design, need input

1) It will likely appeal to alot of the fantasy nuts provided you can generate sufficient interest

2) Wouldn't be too difficult to learn especially considering your target audience (most RPG players are fairly 'clued up' at such things). Again, generating a decent player base would be the key.

3) Again, wouldn't be too much of a problem in my oppinion.

4) From what you've said it does sound too open to abuse. Things like score based on players rating one another's items/dens etc or anything to do with a forum account could be abused severely with obvious detriment to the game.

5) Can't think of any other key points. Try to keep it as original (easy task!) as you possibly can and (depending on your coding skillz) you may do well.
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Unread 12 Jun 2006, 22:28   #4
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Re: Game design, need input

Kamikaze Small Furry Animals are always good fun \o/
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Unread 12 Jun 2006, 22:41   #5
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Re: Game design, need input

this sounds like a simple version of WoW isn't it?

I'm pretty sure s|k still has me on ignore though so I don't know why i'm bothering to post in his thread. Hey ho.
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Unread 12 Jun 2006, 23:01   #6
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Re: Game design, need input

hey i remember a friend of mine, xain being involved with this; do you know what happened to him?
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Unread 12 Jun 2006, 23:05   #7
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Re: Game design, need input

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ste
this sounds like a simple version of WoW isn't it?
I hate to sound like a super wow nerd here, but you've obviously never played it
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Unread 12 Jun 2006, 23:18   #8
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Re: Game design, need input

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat
I hate to sound like a super wow nerd here, but you've obviously never played it
true

it just sounded like every online RPG i've ever played.
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Unread 12 Jun 2006, 23:44   #9
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Re: Game design, need input

Quote:
Originally Posted by jerome
hey i remember a friend of mine, xain being involved with this; do you know what happened to him?
I had him on MSN up until 2 weeks ago when I removed all the people I never talk to anymore. He was on pretty often. :/

Oh I don't have anyone on ignore anymore ste, I took everyone off many months ago.
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Unread 13 Jun 2006, 09:33   #10
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Re: Game design, need input

Golden rule of game design.. if it sounds cool, add it!

Some people will like a feature some people wont, make a game that you'd want to play and you can't really go wrong.

Then throw it through some testing just to balance things out.
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Unread 13 Jun 2006, 14:46   #11
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Re: Game design, need input

You know who else needs input dontcha?
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Unread 13 Jun 2006, 16:39   #12
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Re: Game design, need input

Quote:
Originally Posted by djbass
Golden rule of game design.. if it sounds cool, add it!

Some people will like a feature some people wont, make a game that you'd want to play and you can't really go wrong.

Then throw it through some testing just to balance things out.
I wish this were true, but unfortunately making a successful game design is probably one of the most complex things imaginable. I want users to experience a sensation of `flow` when they play my game, which is a state of intense concentration and enjoyment. I really do not know very much about game design, my current philosophy is to create some flexible tools that users can use to take advantage of their own creativity and inginuity to create good game. Just as long the rules and tools I create don't get in the way of people (which is hard).

My combat set up is this:

Three classes of ogres are physical, magical, elemental

The attack system works like this:
There is a regular attack and a special attack.
special damage = (special attack - special defense)
regular damage = (regular damage - regular defense)
regular damage + special damage

All offensive items have regular damage, and they may also have special damage which is one of the several different class types. The different class types also have different subtypes.

So for instance magic subtypes are mystic and necro; elemental are fire, earth, water, air; physical is stab and bludgeon

In order to defend one self from a special attack one must have something equipped that provides defense for the specific subtype. IE you can't just have magic defense, you have to defend againt a mystic attack, but then you're still open to a necro attack.

An ogre will have to specialise in a certain class. The classes have different advantages over each other

Elemental has more types of attacks (harder to defend against)
Physical attacks are more powerful (causes more damage if successful)
Magic can change oger states

States are another thing, there are several: poison (causes damage per round), weak (reduces regular attack), berserk (causes oger to be unable to attack), frail ( weakens physical defense), glass (ogre has no physical defense), sleep (ogre has no attack or defense), death (the ogre dies)

States only last during a battle, there are three rounds to a battle. First the defender attacks, then the attacker counter attacks, this happens three times unless someone dies first, if both are still alive after three rounds it is a tie.

:/
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Unread 13 Jun 2006, 17:09   #13
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Re: Game design, need input

Types of attacks, game-mechanics etc are irrelevant; anybody decent at maths/logic can design the system any way you want it. The kicker is deciding what you actually want the game-mechanices to do.

When you're designing focus on what you want the players to actually do. Which choices, which trade-offs etc. Choices are what makes a game, and you need the correct blend between short-term effects and long-term effects.

If players aren't allowed to make enough actual choices during/before combat, you might as well just throw a dice instead of creating a complex system; because it's going to look completely the same from the end-users perspective.

Whether the system you propose will be fun or not? ..well.. it all depends on the balancing, and that's a bloody bitch. I'm not holding my breath though
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Unread 13 Jun 2006, 17:18   #14
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Re: Game design, need input

Quote:
Originally Posted by s|k
I wish this were true, but unfortunately making a successful game design is probably one of the most complex things imaginable. I want users to experience a sensation of `flow` when they play my game, which is a state of intense concentration and enjoyment. I really do not know very much about game design, my current philosophy is to create some flexible tools that users can use to take advantage of their own creativity and inginuity to create good game. Just as long the rules and tools I create don't get in the way of people (which is hard).
No-one can create the perfect game, where everything flows 100% of the time and every person on the planet loves your game.

Think less about pleasing other people and just make the game your game.

Someone will always come along and try to play the game their own way, and in a fashion that you never even contemplated, this is human nature and you can't possibly contemplate every single persons actions in the game.

To help with flow though, storyboard or hell write an entire novel on the universe of the game. It will give you a tempo to step to if you feel yourself straying too far away from the main idea.

You wont truelly know if something works or not until you've made it and tried it for yourself. Then let other people try it, get their input, change whatever necessary then rinse and repeat until you have something you are happy with. This is just a normal part of the development cycle that all developers go through.
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Unread 14 Jun 2006, 18:29   #15
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Re: Game design, need input

Quote:
Originally Posted by djbass
Golden rule of game design.. if it sounds cool, add it!
That's a recipe for never getting anything done.
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Unread 14 Jun 2006, 18:35   #16
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Re: Game design, need input

Quote:
Originally Posted by s|k
Users post in ongame forum, gain or lose gold/score based on user rating of posts (bit of inspiration from here).
Tying ingame score to forum post approval is possibly the single worst game-design idea I've ever heard.


If I misunderstood what you meant then sorry.


The rest sounds like you could make an interesting game out of it.
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