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16 May 2009, 10:20
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#101
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Ireland
Posts: 1,143
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Re: Why changing salvage sucked ass and please change it back next round
that is pretty close to 50%
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16 May 2009, 10:35
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#102
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 936
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Re: Why changing salvage sucked ass and please change it back next round
wheres the attackers salvage?
__________________
If the opponent resists, CaRnage there will be!
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16 May 2009, 12:11
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#103
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Hungary
Posts: 96
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Re: Why changing salvage sucked ass and please change it back next round
eksero i actually checked my news so here goes:
value of my cr fleet was in resources: 9,250m M 10,400m C 9,250m E
exact sal: 3,052m M 3,424m C 3,052m E
with the cr i could have rebuilt from the sal i could have gotten a sh**e and pretty weak fleet tbh
fun eh?=P
hardly 50%
__________________
RD 19-23 F-crew
RD 24-30 1/2 ASS
RD 30 1/2-31Conspiracy
- retired -
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16 May 2009, 15:24
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#104
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Ireland
Posts: 1,143
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Re: Why changing salvage sucked ass and please change it back next round
thats not 230k value as u said in the first post tho!
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16 May 2009, 18:24
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#105
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This Space for Rent
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 583
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Re: Why changing salvage sucked ass and please change it back next round
cathaar is supposed to get a 40% bonus already. still seems low even considering that.
__________________
When in doubt, blame Ascendancy.
#pastats
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16 May 2009, 18:57
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#106
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Hungary
Posts: 96
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Re: Why changing salvage sucked ass and please change it back next round
i estimated eksero duh!
__________________
RD 19-23 F-crew
RD 24-30 1/2 ASS
RD 30 1/2-31Conspiracy
- retired -
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16 May 2009, 21:14
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#107
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xVx Peon
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Coventry
Posts: 268
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Re: Why changing salvage sucked ass and please change it back next round
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ave
wheres the attackers salvage?
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Why should attackers get salvage, especially if they have crashed?
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VisioN
xVx
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16 May 2009, 22:02
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#108
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This Space for Rent
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 583
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Re: Why changing salvage sucked ass and please change it back next round
i think what Ave was asking about, was where is the attacker's salvage in the FC on csillag. The only ships that died were hers, and the attackers took no losses iirc.
__________________
When in doubt, blame Ascendancy.
#pastats
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17 May 2009, 08:28
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#109
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 936
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Re: Why changing salvage sucked ass and please change it back next round
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary
Why should attackers get salvage, especially if they have crashed?
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Why should defenders get salvage when they crash? same freaking thing!
__________________
If the opponent resists, CaRnage there will be!
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17 May 2009, 08:52
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#110
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Ireland
Posts: 1,143
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Re: Why changing salvage sucked ass and please change it back next round
Defending should be rewarded, crashing your fleet on attacks shouldnt.
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17 May 2009, 09:32
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#111
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Ent|lunch
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Liverpool
Posts: 539
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Re: Why changing salvage sucked ass and please change it back next round
crashing defence through poor DCing shouldnt be rewarded
__________________
[F-Crew] - You know when you've been [FC]uked
"Don't tell people how to do things, tell them what to do and let them surprise you with their results."
"Ars longa, vita brevis, occasio praeceps, experimentum periculosum, iudicium difficile"
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17 May 2009, 10:11
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#112
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 936
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Re: Why changing salvage sucked ass and please change it back next round
Quote:
Originally Posted by eksero
Defending should be rewarded, crashing your fleet on attacks shouldnt.
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Fleet movement in general needs to be rewarded, regardless where u move it. Obviously bad movement causes some step backs, but shouldnt how ever end your round. Else it DOES ENCOURAGE NOOB ROIDING! Because there is no place for mistakes. Such as not noticing some hidden production or stuff like that, anyone expesially new people can easily step in to trap like that.
The reward from attacking is possible kills, roid gain and xp bonus.
The reward from defending is possible kills and keeping your roids/growth (alliance/gal/your own) and xp bonus.
I dont see how ****ing up your defence or ****ing up your attack should differ. Most crashes aint made by purpouse thats for sure.
__________________
If the opponent resists, CaRnage there will be!
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17 May 2009, 12:37
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#113
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Ireland
Posts: 1,143
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Re: Why changing salvage sucked ass and please change it back next round
Quote:
Originally Posted by [DW]Entropy
crashing defence through poor DCing shouldnt be rewarded
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You dont need to crash your def to get salvage
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17 May 2009, 20:40
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#114
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Mercenary
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Todmorden
Posts: 1,192
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Re: Why changing salvage sucked ass and please change it back next round
I think some people are also forgetting that last round the reason Golan/Hude/Shazna etc got such value gains is not completely due to the salvage % but the fact they were zik and so stole the equivalent value of what they lost AND THEN got the salvage on top.....
__________________
FAnG
Ascendancy
Apprime
Ultores
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18 May 2009, 14:38
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#115
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Hungary
Posts: 96
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Re: Why changing salvage sucked ass and please change it back next round
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colt
I think some people are also forgetting that last round the reason Golan/Hude/Shazna etc got such value gains is not completely due to the salvage % but the fact they were zik and so stole the equivalent value of what they lost AND THEN got the salvage on top.....
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ziks already lose ships when stealing. if u wouldnt get any salvage when stealing on def mission and therefore losing ships, zik d lose their speciality=P
__________________
RD 19-23 F-crew
RD 24-30 1/2 ASS
RD 30 1/2-31Conspiracy
- retired -
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18 May 2009, 14:43
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#116
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mz.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
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Re: Why changing salvage sucked ass and please change it back next round
They lose ships but not value.
__________________
The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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18 May 2009, 14:46
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#117
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Ent|lunch
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Liverpool
Posts: 539
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Re: Why changing salvage sucked ass and please change it back next round
Quote:
Originally Posted by csillag
ziks already lose ships when stealing. if u wouldnt get any salvage when stealing on def mission and therefore losing ships, zik d lose their speciality=P
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Zik speciality is stealing, noones taken that away. They lose ships but swap them for other ships. so not much value (if any) is lost.
EDIT : mz beat me to it
__________________
[F-Crew] - You know when you've been [FC]uked
"Don't tell people how to do things, tell them what to do and let them surprise you with their results."
"Ars longa, vita brevis, occasio praeceps, experimentum periculosum, iudicium difficile"
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18 May 2009, 22:52
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#118
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Drunken Boozer
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 298
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Re: Why changing salvage sucked ass and please change it back next round
But you might loose useful ships and steal some bullshit that does not fit into your fleet
__________________
Geilheit ist KEINE Schande !!!!
! [ToT]-KC !
Äscendäncy, we got Penis inside!
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19 May 2009, 08:18
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#119
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idle
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Germany
Posts: 968
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Re: Why changing salvage sucked ass and please change it back next round
salvage is for pussies
__________________
m0rph3us formerly known as Bugz
"It´s not about how hard u hit, its about how hard u can get hit and still keep moving forward! How much u can take and still move forward!"
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19 May 2009, 10:33
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#120
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Hungary
Posts: 96
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Re: Why changing salvage sucked ass and please change it back next round
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk
They lose ships but not value.
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that im aware of.
maybe should have pointed out that rounds ago ziks didnt even lose stealers when capping ships (attack or defwise), and that has been changed drastically by introducing the "zik stealers die to steal" principle.
why on earth should people reduce defsalvage for ziks?
__________________
RD 19-23 F-crew
RD 24-30 1/2 ASS
RD 30 1/2-31Conspiracy
- retired -
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19 May 2009, 11:24
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#121
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This Space for Rent
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 583
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Re: Why changing salvage sucked ass and please change it back next round
maybe the answer would be in raising salvage given when attackers die dividing between defenders THAT ACTUALLY PARTICIPATE IN COMBAT (yes that needed caps), while reducing salvage for defender ships that die?
it is a war game, so when you lose ships while defending and killing attackers off - the main bonus is that the attacker has lost those ships and does not get compensation to rebuild. the defender should receive enough to rebuild, but not enough to rebuild 100% - let alone profit from it.
__________________
When in doubt, blame Ascendancy.
#pastats
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19 May 2009, 12:25
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#122
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mz.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
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Re: Why changing salvage sucked ass and please change it back next round
Quote:
Originally Posted by csillag
that im aware of.
maybe should have pointed out that rounds ago ziks didnt even lose stealers when capping ships (attack or defwise), and that has been changed drastically by introducing the "zik stealers die to steal" principle.
why on earth should people reduce defsalvage for ziks?
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The point of this thread is reducing salvage, period. Ziks are affected by this change no more than other races are. No offence intended, but what you say is quite irrelevant.
__________________
The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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19 May 2009, 17:05
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#123
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Klaatu barada nikto
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: St. Paul, Minnesota
Posts: 3,237
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Re: Why changing salvage sucked ass and please change it back next round
I wonder if part of the problem is that any salvage formula has to serve more than one master? You want high(er) salvage to reward defenders and you want low(er) salvage to reduce/eliminate donations.
One solution might be to cap salvage at a percentage of each defender's losses. So if you don't lose any ships then you don't get any salvage (no matter how many ships you may have disabled). It wouldn't be completely realistic of course but it would eliminate any donations.
I know some people don't like "artificial caps," but it would allow the salvage formula to just focus on the right level of compensation.
__________________
The Ottawa Citizen and Southam News wish to apologize for our apology to Mark Steyn, published Oct. 22. In correcting the incorrect statements about Mr. Steyn published Oct. 15, we incorrectly published the incorrect correction. We accept and regret that our original regrets were unacceptable and we apologize to Mr. Steyn for any distress caused by our previous apology.
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19 May 2009, 19:09
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#124
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 936
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Re: Why changing salvage sucked ass and please change it back next round
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tactitus
I wonder if part of the problem is that any salvage formula has to serve more than one master? You want high(er) salvage to reward defenders and you want low(er) salvage to reduce/eliminate donations.
One solution might be to cap salvage at a percentage of each defender's losses. So if you don't lose any ships then you don't get any salvage (no matter how many ships you may have disabled). It wouldn't be completely realistic of course but it would eliminate any donations.
I know some people don't like "artificial caps," but it would allow the salvage formula to just focus on the right level of compensation.
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agreed there, defenders can be rewarded in other ways too.
__________________
If the opponent resists, CaRnage there will be!
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21 May 2009, 11:02
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#125
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 386
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Re: Why changing salvage sucked ass and please change it back next round
Imo ziks have it good now. They win by defending and capping ships that way. If they'd get more salvage on attacks, it would just make them n00bbash alot and try getting ships that way.
__________________
Adapt has never been an official ND HC. He was on his way to promotion for some reason, but then got denied promotion. Lol at the muppet claiming he has been
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21 May 2009, 20:54
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#126
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 386
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Re: Why changing salvage sucked ass and please change it back next round
Tbh, I don't understand this whining about no salvage. Why the fk get ships replaced for skrewing up? Both att and def. When a call is not covered, it isn't. People are just whining cause it's not as easy to defend now. I say it's good, makes the game more offensive.
__________________
Adapt has never been an official ND HC. He was on his way to promotion for some reason, but then got denied promotion. Lol at the muppet claiming he has been
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22 May 2009, 08:42
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#127
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Tallinn
Posts: 734
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Re: Why changing salvage sucked ass and please change it back next round
game should b far more offencive than it is atm.. atm its quite easy to cover 3-4 fleet wave incs tbh.. and basicly if u arent cath this round then u cant hit neone alone :P thats for sure and thats whats wrong imho
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VISION FTW
THIS IS ULTORES
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24 May 2009, 16:30
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#128
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xVx Peon
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Coventry
Posts: 268
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Re: Why changing salvage sucked ass and please change it back next round
Etd BS can still hit alot of planets solo - and no one says you have to hit the fat targets all the time. Capping 75 - 125 roids a day is perfectly fine if your trying to build value.
Again salvage should be set higher to reward decent defence effort as opposed to retarded lands that fully cap but lose 50% - 80% of fleet value for example :|
__________________
VisioN
xVx
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27 May 2009, 16:16
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#129
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: blackpool england
Posts: 76
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Re: Why changing salvage sucked ass and please change it back next round
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
I'm not writing this post from my perspective, despite what wish mentioned earlier really, ascendancy aren't going to be the ones who fail to defend. What you're going to find is that the lower alliances gradually stop defending because the core of players there who do often defend will either become small, due to insignificant salvage gains and quite often losses, while defending or they'll become slightly big and worry that their fleets will be destroyed in battles defending small planets that couldn't possibly defend them back when they get incoming.
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As the head of HA defence one of the lower allaince it is excally what has happened def is dropping off more by the day because people just arnt willing to sacrifce ships.
Salvage should be based almost entirly on comparitve value, small planet deffing against sombody bashing at the limit should have almsot 100% salvage recovered, for normal kill ships and emp ofc and steal ships that are killed,
Salavge for big planets bing crashed on by people half there score should be alot lower, Salvage was brought into help people recover from bashings
so wheather it is a 500k value planet being bashed by a 1 million value or a 2 million value planet being ten man attacked by combined value of 5 or more million, those planets shoudl regain enough that they dont quit and reduce the player base even more
while at the same time making the 1 million value planets crashed on by a 300k 400k forgot to recall idiot have little salvage at all
__________________
Veni Vedi Vici
We came We saw We conquered
(then we got laided )
Round 27 28 HA DC BC, 29 VGN DC, 30 ND DC, 31 32 HA head DC,
Round 33 34 35 ND DC
Round 36 37 38 ND HC DC
Round 39 to Forever ND DC
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