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Unread 9 Nov 2007, 02:28   #51
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Re: Remembrance

Having stood on by, I'm going to have to interject here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wakey
1) its not mine or F-Crew's proposal. Its a multinational 'event' that has taken place at 11am on the 11th of November since 1919
It's taking place in F-Crew's channel and appears to be organised by an F-Crew HC. Further,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Juice
We (F-Crew) will be holding a minutes silence in our public and private channels on Sunday 11th November 2007 at 11am (game time) to remember those that have fallen in conflict over years.
Note: "We (F-Crew) will be holding"

Quote:
Originally Posted by wakey
2) We aren't asking for anyone to show us respect. This isnt about us as we have said over and over again. Its about Remembrance Day/Poppy Day/Veterans Day/Armistice Day. Its that which should be respected, in the same way peoples right to celebrate Christmas/Hanukkah/Ramadan should be respected. If people have nothing but 'mocking' for it then they should just keep it to themselves
As Spectator1 said, not everyone celebrates the actions of their veterans on November 11th. The Dutch hold theirs on 4th May, symbolising the end of the WWII occupation of the Netherlands. The Germans hold theirs towards the end of November as part of the end of the ecclesiastical year - a time traditionally devoted to thoughts of death, time, and eternity. Australia and New Zealand observe Remembrance Day on November 11th, but greater meaning is taken from ANZAC Day on April 25th - the anniversary of the first major military action fought by Australian and New Zealand forces during WWI.

So equally, just as Christians wouldn't celebrate Christmas Day on any day other than December 25th, you can't expect everyone to commemorate November 11th as a day for their veterans.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wakey
3) The "utter disgraces to humanity" had nothing to do with my views or forcing people to agree with them. It was about the attitude people had where all they could do was mock a long standing 'event'. If they choose to honour it is up to each person but no-one needs to mock the dead and their family and friends
I must disagree. Your belief that they were utter disgraces to humanity was directly relevant to your view that everyone should commemorate the actions of their country's veterans on November 11th. Doing so is a personal choice which is for each individual to make; they equally have the right to disagree with other peoples' personal choices, however disrespectful it may be done.

Finally, at no point did I see any poster mocking the dead. They were disenchanted with the attempt to bring alliances together to remember the fallen, and even more so with the attempt to relate this to Planetarion. The proposal was for people to perform their act of remembrance on an IRC client which they use to play an online space warfare game. Perhaps a more reverent act of remembrance would be to stop playing that game, move away from the computer and to properly pay your respects rather than staring at a flashing screen while doing so.
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Unread 9 Nov 2007, 02:33   #52
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Re: Remembrance

leave remembering the dead to the individual to choose. Hold a rememberence service if you must but dont attack those who think there are better ways to remember the fallen.
If people want to mock it, then thats on their heads and concience but i really cant see anyone mocking the dead - more the choice of location of its announcement ( and the general idea of holding it on irc perhaps )
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Unread 9 Nov 2007, 11:31   #53
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Re: Remembrance

Quote:
Originally Posted by furball
Perhaps a more reverent act of remembrance would be to stop playing that game, move away from the computer and to properly pay your respects rather than staring at a flashing screen while doing so.
Total agreement here.

In my opinion, remembrance is not just about taking 1 or 2 minutes of silence, it is much more: being around people (in RL!), together talk about history and also very important: the future. In my case I remember the fallen together with friends, joining eachother at someones place. Then we eat together and talk about history and the future. The day after, 5th of May, we will celebrate our freedoms by having a big party.

Though, if one wishes to have a moment of remembrance in ones channel of course you are allowed to do so and it should be respected.
Questionable is, however, whether remembrance is suited for being held on IRC, as stated quite often before. As I indicated above: in my opinion that is not the case. Note that I question the process, not the content!

Finally, I think everyone should make the decision for himself/herself, that is the freedom for which people have fought (in many ways, not only by means of war). Let us honour those freedoms by respecting anyones choice and not baiting eachother about this subject.
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Unread 9 Nov 2007, 12:38   #54
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Re: Remembrance

Quote:
Originally Posted by furball
Having stood on by, I'm going to have to interject here.


It's taking place in F-Crew's channel and appears to be organised by an F-Crew HC. Further,


Note: "We (F-Crew) will be holding"
T hats clutching at straws. Just because someone or some group is observing something doesn't make it 'theirs'

Quote:
As Spectator1 said, not everyone celebrates the actions of their veterans on November 11th. The Dutch hold theirs on 4th May, symbolising the end of the WWII occupation of the Netherlands. The Germans hold theirs towards the end of November as part of the end of the ecclesiastical year - a time traditionally devoted to thoughts of death, time, and eternity. Australia and New Zealand observe Remembrance Day on November 11th, but greater meaning is taken from ANZAC Day on April 25th - the anniversary of the first major military action fought by Australian and New Zealand forces during WWI.

So equally, just as Christians wouldn't celebrate Christmas Day on any day other than December 25th, you can't expect everyone to commemorate November 11th as a day for their veterans.
At no point have I said they have to join us, neither has Juice. Its people like you who seem to have an inability to read that have deemed that. It happens ever time someone from F-Crew posts anything, all of you suddenly start to read things into it that aren't there.

I'll say ot again people have been invited to join us in remembrance. You know Invite as in "To welcome" not force as in "coercion"

Quote:
I must disagree. Your belief that they were utter disgraces to humanity was directly relevant to your view that everyone should commemorate the actions of their country's veterans on November 11th. Doing so is a personal choice which is for each individual to make; they equally have the right to disagree with other peoples' personal choices, however disrespectful it may be done.
I bow down to your greatness, after all the mighty furball knows better than the people who post what they were saying.

If you actually read what I posted I acknowledge that some people here arent in countries that observe it. I then state that however its grown over the years into something that isnt just WW1 related and as such if anyone from a country that doesn't observe it just wants to pay respect to their fallen veterans there's no reason they cant and are welcome to join us, before stating once again that its up its upto them if they want to but if they don't want to atleast be respectful to peoples right to do so and to the people they are remembering.

Quote:
Finally, at no point did I see any poster mocking the dead. They were disenchanted with the attempt to bring alliances together to remember the fallen, and even more so with the attempt to relate this to Planetarion. The proposal was for people to perform their act of remembrance on an IRC client which they use to play an online space warfare game. Perhaps a more reverent act of remembrance would be to stop playing that game, move away from the computer and to properly pay your respects rather than staring at a flashing screen while doing so.
How does it matter where its being done. The act of remembrance isn't about where but about doing. Its about stopping what your doing and having a period of silent consideration about something. If your on IRC its about putting your keyboards down and stopping typing, if your at school its about putting your pens down, if your out shopping its about placing your bags/trolley/basket down ect ect.
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Unread 9 Nov 2007, 12:42   #55
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Re: Remembrance

Calm down dear - JC
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Last edited by JC; 9 Nov 2007 at 18:07.
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Unread 9 Nov 2007, 16:19   #56
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Re: Remembrance

Ditto - JC
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Unread 9 Nov 2007, 19:29   #57
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Re: Remembrance

Man - I've just read this entire thread because I was told JC was alive in it well done on editting out mz's post btw, wish you'd do that for all of them.

wakey - I think you're confusing people "mocking those who died" with people "mocking the person who made this thread". They are two different things. I'd think the vast majority of "real life people" - would also extremely mock (or something similar) people doing a rememberence on IRC.
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Unread 9 Nov 2007, 20:44   #58
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Re: Remembrance

people always acting like smart ass on forum..
many with insensitive and meaningless life.
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Unread 9 Nov 2007, 21:30   #59
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Re: Remembrance

an emotive subject that will cause some to laugh, some to yell and others to object.

- its called remembrance cos its for people who WISH TO remember the sacrifice that others took during wars, any war, including both world wars for freedom, and thats not just soldiers.

the important bit is underlined, it was their choice to fight, or nurse, or stay at home and farm the land so others could, and so it is your choices wether to spend 2 minutes in silence to respect their wish.


But try to remember, that your freedom of choice not to comes from their choice to act on their concience.

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Unread 11 Nov 2007, 16:53   #60
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Re: Remembrance

Given that the time has now passed, I believe that this is probably the right time to close the thread.
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