User Name
Password

Go Back   Planetarion Forums > Planetarion Related Forums > Planetarion Discussions

Reply
Thread Tools Display Modes
Unread 9 Jul 2007, 16:23   #101
shibaMac
huzo0r
 
shibaMac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Ireland
Posts: 58
shibaMac has a spectacular aura aboutshibaMac has a spectacular aura about
Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gio2k
So let me get this right. Remy closed Achi bc almost all the jgp scans he did were for Asc, while he himself is Transc?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gio2k
How am I misstating a fact?
This is a misstatement of a fact. Achi wasn't closed for this. If you think he was, you haven't been keeping up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gio2k
And the fact that you replied to my post is proof enough that you understood my 'No comment' perfectly.
Giving me too much credit here I'm afraid. I thought you were just blowing hot air out of your ass. Still do.
shibaMac is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 9 Jul 2007, 16:25   #102
shibaMac
huzo0r
 
shibaMac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Ireland
Posts: 58
shibaMac has a spectacular aura aboutshibaMac has a spectacular aura about
Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Quote:
Originally Posted by jupp
the game really needs people like Achi, dec, mz & co
Not that huzo0r guy though, ****er's always afk
shibaMac is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 9 Jul 2007, 16:25   #103
Gio2k
Bolivian Alpaca
 
Gio2k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 912
Gio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond repute
Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Anyways, the support rule should be dropped. Hell, if 500 guys want to play together, let them. For purposes of rankings and deciding the winner of a round, you can always say only the first 60 or so count towards the alliance ranking.
__________________
"I throw myself into the sea, release the wave, let it wash over me ..."
MadCowS - Angels - eXilition - Destiny - Wolfpack - Jenova - p3nguins
Gio2k is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 9 Jul 2007, 16:27   #104
Gio2k
Bolivian Alpaca
 
Gio2k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 912
Gio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond repute
Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Quote:
Originally Posted by shibaMac
This is a misstatement of a fact. Achi wasn't closed for this. If you think he was, you haven't been keeping up.
LOL
What was he closed for then? Enlighten me.
__________________
"I throw myself into the sea, release the wave, let it wash over me ..."
MadCowS - Angels - eXilition - Destiny - Wolfpack - Jenova - p3nguins
Gio2k is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 9 Jul 2007, 16:31   #105
Heartless
CRASHING BEATS 'N FANTASY
 
Heartless's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Cold Country.
Posts: 1,912
Heartless is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himHeartless is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himHeartless is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himHeartless is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himHeartless is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himHeartless is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himHeartless is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himHeartless is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himHeartless is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himHeartless is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himHeartless is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like him
Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gio2k
LOL
What was he closed for then? Enlighten me.
Remy claimed that 90% of Achilles' scans were performed for Ascendancy people, not that 90% of his jgps were done for Ascendancy people. Come on, you are not that stupid to mistake jgps for all scans performed
__________________
Ià! Ià! Munin F'tagn! - [*scendancy]
Heartless is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 9 Jul 2007, 16:50   #106
shibaMac
huzo0r
 
shibaMac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Ireland
Posts: 58
shibaMac has a spectacular aura aboutshibaMac has a spectacular aura about
Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Quote:
Originally Posted by gio2k
What was he closed for then? Enlighten me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartless
Remy claimed that 90% of Achilles' scans were performed for Ascendancy people, not that 90% of his jgps were done for Ascendancy people. Come on, you are not that stupid to mistake jgps for all scans performed
Exactly.
shibaMac is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 9 Jul 2007, 17:01   #107
Gio2k
Bolivian Alpaca
 
Gio2k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 912
Gio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond repute
Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartless
Remy claimed that 90% of Achilles' scans were performed for Ascendancy people, not that 90% of his jgps were done for Ascendancy people. Come on, you are not that stupid to mistake jgps for all scans performed
And you are not that stupid as to claim his reason is null just because he said '90% of all scans' instead of '59% of all scans' or '90% of all jgp scans'.
__________________
"I throw myself into the sea, release the wave, let it wash over me ..."
MadCowS - Angels - eXilition - Destiny - Wolfpack - Jenova - p3nguins
Gio2k is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 9 Jul 2007, 17:19   #108
Heartless
CRASHING BEATS 'N FANTASY
 
Heartless's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Cold Country.
Posts: 1,912
Heartless is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himHeartless is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himHeartless is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himHeartless is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himHeartless is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himHeartless is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himHeartless is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himHeartless is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himHeartless is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himHeartless is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himHeartless is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like him
Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gio2k
And you are not that stupid as to claim his reason is null just because he said '90% of all scans' instead of '59% of all scans' or '90% of all jgp scans'.
Actually I find his whole reason for closure as somewhat weird. Just because Ascendancy requested most of his public scan service that doesn't make him a support planet.
__________________
Ià! Ià! Munin F'tagn! - [*scendancy]
Heartless is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 9 Jul 2007, 17:23   #109
SOL
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: UK , Nottingham
Posts: 138
SOL is on a distinguished road
Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

im lost here which part of the EULA says you cant share scans with friends?

signed
__________________
Just some n00b
SOL is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 9 Jul 2007, 17:26   #110
Gio2k
Bolivian Alpaca
 
Gio2k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 912
Gio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond repute
Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Actually, if we go by the way such things have been dealt with in previous rounds, it does make him a support planet. Or we could use the same argument for other cases too:
'Just because i mostly attack on alliance X raids, it doesn't make me a support planet'
I personally do not agree with the support planet rules, they should be eliminated and let the players themselves level what they perceive as unfair in the game. But as long as the support planet rule is in place, i think Remy has applied it correctly.
__________________
"I throw myself into the sea, release the wave, let it wash over me ..."
MadCowS - Angels - eXilition - Destiny - Wolfpack - Jenova - p3nguins
Gio2k is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 9 Jul 2007, 17:31   #111
Heartless
CRASHING BEATS 'N FANTASY
 
Heartless's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Cold Country.
Posts: 1,912
Heartless is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himHeartless is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himHeartless is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himHeartless is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himHeartless is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himHeartless is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himHeartless is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himHeartless is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himHeartless is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himHeartless is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himHeartless is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like him
Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gio2k
Actually, if we go by the way such things have been dealt with in previous rounds, it does make him a support planet. Or we could use the same argument for other cases too:
'Just because i mostly attack on alliance X raids, it doesn't make me a support planet'
I personally do not agree with the support planet rules, they should be eliminated and let the players themselves level what they perceive as unfair in the game. But as long as the support planet rule is in place, i think Remy has applied it correctly.
Yes but Achilles offered his services to everyone. The other support planets never did that, at least I never saw a public channel where oyu could ask for attack support.
__________________
Ià! Ià! Munin F'tagn! - [*scendancy]
Heartless is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 9 Jul 2007, 17:38   #112
wakey
Hamster
 
wakey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Crewe, England
Posts: 3,606
wakey is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himwakey is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himwakey is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himwakey is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himwakey is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himwakey is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himwakey is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himwakey is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himwakey is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himwakey is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himwakey is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like him
Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Quote:
Originally Posted by shibaMac
And yet you still have to have evidence to close someone. So far, the only piece we've seen (and afaik the only piece at all) has been shown to be at the very least dubious.

The question still has to be answered. Why was Achi closed? And "he pushed his luck" isn't good enough.
Lets see
  1. Descendancy are openly a 'support' alliance for Ascendancy how much support they were doing is a contentious issue but the fact this was happen did cause concern as gmufc stated.
  2. Achi then decided to start a new alliance that followed in the naming convention
  3. On his recruitment thread he posted comments like
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Achilles
    Transcendancy aka *scendancy Support Alliance II is looking for new HARDCORE planetarion members to disregard their self respect and jump on board the bandwagon for round 22.
    Quote:
    Last round the alliance we are supporting ended 2nd.
    There are players from all parts of *scendancy in Transcendancy
    Quote:
    Activity - We want you to be around, for us to help you (lol), and for you to help *scendancy.

    Loyalty - We simply don't want anyone who isn't 100% dedicated into helping *scendancy achieve our goals of ruining the internet for everyone.
    Quote:
    An active playercore of over 100 *scendancy members! People who got both the time and the skills but will doubtfully care about helping you.
  4. The thread could have been tongue in cheek but there's doubt there and when he is ensuring people the alliance is serious he says the following

    Quote:
    operate in the spirit of our Block partners including my own former alliance, Ascendancy
    So despite saying the threads tongue in cheek hes stating that they are working with Asc
  5. He doesn't deny doing a large number of scans for Asc, just the amount he did. He stated to me in pm

    [14:37] <Wakey|afk> Yes it is, you have done scans for them, something you dont deny
    [14:37] <Achi> 30%
    [14:37] <Achi> because they were the ones who asked
    [14:37] <Achi> no other reason

    30% is still a pretty high concentration, not as bad as 90% or the 54% marked on the spreadsheet but still above what you would think should be average.

All this plus anything else the MH had does build a fair case againts him and as such hes been closed for cheating. Did he actually cheat or has he just been caught out by Asc's actions, his own claims and the grey area he was operating? Only he really knows but when you making claims like he did you risk them being taken wrong and when you operate in a grey area you risk getting a wrong decision.

No rules even rl laws are infallible and rely on interpretation. If you kill someone by accident and it is deemed to be on purpose by a Jury then you can go down for murder and its the same here you act in a way that could be considered suspicious you risk getting punished for it even if innocent as it can be hard to tell otherweise
__________________
Wakey
PD and Suggestions Moderator
Co-founder of [F-Crew]
The Farnborough Crew
Cos anything else is just an alliance
Join our public channel at #f-crew
wakey is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 9 Jul 2007, 17:41   #113
Mzyxptlk
mz.
Alien Invasion Champion, Submarine Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Barts Watersports Adventure Champion
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Saying Transcendancy operates "in the spirit of" Ascendancy is not the same as "Trancendancy fights for/with Ascendancy".

Also, it makes sense that many Ascendancy planets ask for scans from #transcendancy, simply because there are not many Ascendancy scanners left who don't scan through that channel, while many other alliances still have "private" scanners.
__________________
The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
Mzyxptlk is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 9 Jul 2007, 17:42   #114
Gio2k
Bolivian Alpaca
 
Gio2k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 912
Gio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond repute
Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Right. So what you are basically saying is that i can set-up a channel, where people feed me coords i can attack, and as long as i also attack some of those coords occasionally, i can keep on launching on alliance X raids, because now i am not a support planet anymore.
__________________
"I throw myself into the sea, release the wave, let it wash over me ..."
MadCowS - Angels - eXilition - Destiny - Wolfpack - Jenova - p3nguins
Gio2k is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 9 Jul 2007, 17:44   #115
Wandows
[Vision]
 
Wandows's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 897
Wandows has a reputation beyond reputeWandows has a reputation beyond reputeWandows has a reputation beyond reputeWandows has a reputation beyond reputeWandows has a reputation beyond reputeWandows has a reputation beyond reputeWandows has a reputation beyond reputeWandows has a reputation beyond reputeWandows has a reputation beyond reputeWandows has a reputation beyond reputeWandows has a reputation beyond repute
Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Signed!

I'll sign anything to get rid of that stupid support planet rule, freeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeedom!
__________________
[Vision] in a lost dream, contributing to The 5th Element at present
Wandows is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 9 Jul 2007, 17:51   #116
OlaTa
Friends and Foes
 
OlaTa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Estonia
Posts: 461
OlaTa is a splendid one to beholdOlaTa is a splendid one to beholdOlaTa is a splendid one to beholdOlaTa is a splendid one to beholdOlaTa is a splendid one to beholdOlaTa is a splendid one to beholdOlaTa is a splendid one to behold
Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk
while many other alliances still have "private" scanners.
Those "private" scanners are just regular alliance members who choosed to start on other end of research tree, but they all are in alliance tag, and are counted like regular members. Atleast so is the situation in my garden. Dunno about others


OlaTa.
__________________
ASCENDANCY
OlaTa is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 9 Jul 2007, 17:54   #117
Heartless
CRASHING BEATS 'N FANTASY
 
Heartless's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Cold Country.
Posts: 1,912
Heartless is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himHeartless is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himHeartless is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himHeartless is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himHeartless is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himHeartless is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himHeartless is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himHeartless is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himHeartless is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himHeartless is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himHeartless is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like him
Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gio2k
Right. So what you are basically saying is that i can set-up a channel, where people feed me coords i can attack, and as long as i also attack some of those coords occasionally, i can keep on launching on alliance X raids, because now i am not a support planet anymore.
At least you are not a support planet in an unfair sense - you are offering your services to everyone.

But to make it clear, it is mainly the support planet rule which is idiotic, and that is all I wanted to show. So there we agree I guess
__________________
Ià! Ià! Munin F'tagn! - [*scendancy]
Heartless is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 9 Jul 2007, 17:56   #118
wakey
Hamster
 
wakey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Crewe, England
Posts: 3,606
wakey is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himwakey is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himwakey is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himwakey is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himwakey is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himwakey is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himwakey is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himwakey is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himwakey is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himwakey is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himwakey is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like him
Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk
Saying Transcendancy operates "in the spirit of" Ascendancy is not the same as "Trancendancy fights for/with Ascendancy"..
Your ignoring the important part of what he said notice the Block Partners part.
__________________
Wakey
PD and Suggestions Moderator
Co-founder of [F-Crew]
The Farnborough Crew
Cos anything else is just an alliance
Join our public channel at #f-crew
wakey is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 9 Jul 2007, 17:57   #119
Marv
Jazz Man
 
Marv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,494
Marv is a jewel in the roughMarv is a jewel in the roughMarv is a jewel in the rough
Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

There are several puzzling things that I have found confusing from last round and this...

1. The fact that the support planet rule seems to get even more woolly and left down to individual interpretation as opposed to setting out what is and is not allowed.

2. The fact that the game and it's rules are being treated as if it's a huge "online sensation" with a more natzi* approach to the rules, yet the the rewards for winning are almost negligible.

3. Why the support planet wont just be removed, give everyone the chance to help each other. Remove the alliance limit, allow everyone the ability to scan for their friends / girlfriends / alliance friends / friends in other alliances. Allow all the alliances to have all the members they want to include everyone and exclude no one.

The MH team can then spend more time finding those actually doing far more serious things like running multiple accounts etc..

Stop all this bollocks going on, view the support planet rule as an idea that seemed good at the time and has now gone pear shaped.

Make the game more fun, all these rules and anal approach to their "enforcement" just makes it shit for everyone. Bring back a more round 4 approach to the game, with higher regulation of those actually cheating instead of going for those who may or not be breaking a rule that no one is really sure of it's boundaries and limitations.

It's a sad reality but the game isn't as big as it used to be and lives on a knife edge round on round. Having all these rules that are half there and half not just pulls away from the enjoyment and fun approach that it's supposed to be.


*We make the rules and enforce them without telling anyone what they are or that parts of them even exist.
__________________
Marv

Ex ROCK HC & PA Team Head of Support.
Marv is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 9 Jul 2007, 17:58   #120
Mzyxptlk
mz.
Alien Invasion Champion, Submarine Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Barts Watersports Adventure Champion
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gio2k
Right. So what you are basically saying is that i can set-up a channel, where people feed me coords i can attack, and as long as i also attack some of those coords occasionally, i can keep on launching on alliance X raids, because now i am not a support planet anymore.
That's not what we're doing. I'm not refusing people from outside alliance X so that I can keep scanning for people from alliance X. I'm scanning everyone, for everyone, indiscriminantly.

If a Jenova BC would ask a Transcendancy scanner to scan all (Tr)a(n)scendancy planets for an alliance raid, we would not refuse. Hell, I've already done scans on Transcendancy planets (hi Kila!), for people that were attacking them (hi Appoco!).

In fact, come take a look, you may be surprised.



Quote:
Originally Posted by wakey
Your ignoring the important part of what he said notice the Block Partners part.
You're right, I did. But how is that any different from any other 2 alliances cooperating?



Quote:
Originally Posted by OlaTa
Those "private" scanners are just regular alliance members who choosed to start on other end of research tree, but they all are in alliance tag, and are counted like regular members. Atleast so is the situation in my garden. Dunno about others


OlaTa.
Yes. I know. How is this relevant?
__________________
The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
Mzyxptlk is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 9 Jul 2007, 18:06   #121
Phil^
Insomniac
 
Phil^'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 3,583
Phil^ spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldPhil^ spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldPhil^ spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldPhil^ spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldPhil^ spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldPhil^ spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldPhil^ spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldPhil^ spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldPhil^ spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldPhil^ spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldPhil^ spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus would
Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Quote:
Originally Posted by Achilles
edit. mz, Keizari is correct. The current EULA setup as regards the rules was drafted by MH's and as far as I'm aware is maintained by them.
Not quite. Its drafted by pateam and maintained by them.
The multihunters are not part of pateam, there is only one who is a member of both groups
__________________
Phil^
Phil^ is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 9 Jul 2007, 18:20   #122
Achilles
Poblacht na hÉireann
 
Achilles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,167
Achilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAchilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAchilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAchilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAchilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAchilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAchilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAchilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAchilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAchilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAchilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus would
Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gio2k
Actually, if we go by the way such things have been dealt with in previous rounds, it does make him a support planet.
I'm afraid that's not true man. From the other thread:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Assassin
When i invented the support planet rule it was because we had people claiming to be 'scan planets' and having mass of 1 ship type also and defending a lot with those ship types to make a certain eta bonus etc while out of tag.
Now I ask you, how can this same rule, this EXACT same rule, be applied so differently now than it was then? Also, as far as I know, this is the first ever round where someone has been closed solely for scanning. Why is it that these same multihunters are applying different standards in 2 different rounds with the EXACT same rule in place?

Gio, speaking a little offtopic here but I think it's pretty shit of you to condemn what we are doing when you haven't even taken a look for yourself.
Achilles is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 9 Jul 2007, 18:23   #123
OlaTa
Friends and Foes
 
OlaTa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Estonia
Posts: 461
OlaTa is a splendid one to beholdOlaTa is a splendid one to beholdOlaTa is a splendid one to beholdOlaTa is a splendid one to beholdOlaTa is a splendid one to beholdOlaTa is a splendid one to beholdOlaTa is a splendid one to behold
Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk
Yes. I know. How is this relevant?
What i wanted to say is, that when the allie you mentioned had barely any scanners, then people had to find another way to get scans. Cause others have "private" scanners, then the public ones ended up to scan mainly for that alliance. It's not my business to discuss why that allie had no scanners, but that is the problem what stabed Achilles in back. Neither will i speculate how much of his scans where for an alliance, not any of my business.

But what concerns the rule, then if i'm not mistaking, it was created cause of escort fleets and additsional def fleets out of alliance. Atleast that was the main goal of the rule, to prevent such planets. So the EULA 18.2 f) should be written more concrete. Even if needed then write down excactly what is concidered as support account. What actions are forbitten. And community is something what should be helping writing em, cause the game bases on community.

I hope i managed to bring out what i mean. Sorry for bad english

OlaTa
__________________
ASCENDANCY
OlaTa is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 9 Jul 2007, 18:25   #124
shibaMac
huzo0r
 
shibaMac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Ireland
Posts: 58
shibaMac has a spectacular aura aboutshibaMac has a spectacular aura about
Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Quote:
Originally Posted by wakey
Lets see
  1. Descendancy are openly a 'support' alliance for Ascendancy how much support they were doing is a contentious issue but the fact this was happen did cause concern as gmufc stated
No, they're not. This was clarified pre-round, by JBG, with Fiery.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wakey
The thread could have been tongue in cheek
It was
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakey
but there's doubt there
In whose mind exactly? It's called humour. Is this really another attempt at "He brought it on himself"? Now it's being funny instead of pushing his luck.

This is also not a good enough reason.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wakey
All this plus anything else the MH had does build a fair case againts him and as such hes been closed for cheating.
No, again, for the millionth time. There is no evidence he cheated. There is no rule being clearly violated.

Don't you get why people are upset? This could happen to you next. Or me, or any of the players. Because the rules aren't clear, and there's precious little oversight, it's wide open for abuse of power. How can you not have a problem with this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by wakey
No rules even rl laws are infallible and rely on interpretation. If you kill someone by accident and it is deemed to be on purpose by a Jury then you can go down for murder and its the same here you act in a way that could be considered suspicious you risk getting punished for it even if innocent as it can be hard to tell otherweise
Are you actually comparing this situation to a court of law? Can you not see how patently moronic that is? There's not even an incidental similarity between the justice system and an internet game. Get a clue.
shibaMac is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 9 Jul 2007, 18:29   #125
Achilles
Poblacht na hÉireann
 
Achilles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,167
Achilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAchilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAchilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAchilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAchilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAchilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAchilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAchilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAchilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAchilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAchilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus would
Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wakey
All this plus anything else the MH had does build a fair case againts him and as such hes been closed for cheating. Did he actually cheat or has he just been caught out by Asc's actions, his own claims and the grey area he was operating? Only he really knows but when you making claims like he did you risk them being taken wrong and when you operate in a grey area you risk getting a wrong decision.
This is awesomeness in an internet can. You are seriously saying that in a case of dubious guilt someone should be convicted? You really are a special kind of idiot. I have been accused of something which, in terms of Planetarion, carries the ultimate sanction. The evidence should match that and all they have is a bogus list, a multihunters exaggerations and a satirical recruitment post I carbon copied from TGV in the vain hope it might annoy some people into actually thinking about they shit they allow themselves to be spoonfed on a continuous basis.

I don't expect you to understand though because you have proven to me that you are exactly the kind of wanker who judges a book solely by it's cover. You could have chosen to investigate for yourself but you would rather believe the worst and libel people. Shame on you.

edit: Allow me to reiterate for the final time for those of you (take a bow Wakey) too dense to figure it out from all the others times I have said the exact same thing. Transcendancy is a real alliance. Transcendancy will play R23 in exactly the same manner except that we will be encouraging all our members, as well as the public at large, to play free planets.
Achilles is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 9 Jul 2007, 18:36   #126
Talin
Mildly Amused
 
Talin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 105
Talin will become famous soon enoughTalin will become famous soon enough
Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gio2k
But as long as the support planet rule is in place, i think Remy has applied it correctly.
The problem is obviously in the actual rule. Multihunters can use this rule to close hundreds and hundreds of planets if they choose to do so. Closing a scanner is only the worst thing that has happened so far. I can think of a dozen of examples of even more far-fetched interpretation of the support rule. In fact, even people who play strictly confined inside their alliance for a long time aren't invulnerable to support planet rule due to the game politics and possible coincidences that can happen in a relatively small universe.

Basically, the support planet rule in effect does the almost the same that a "MH can close whoever is, in their opinion, violating the game in any manner" rule would - or even more simple, "MH can close whoever they feel like". Not quite, but very close to.

Now, a MH with some reason and common sense would know where to "stop" in his interpretation of the rule. Others (like Remy, for example) will exploit every possible option within the rule and push it as far as it takes to close someone without actually doing anything "wrong".

The current support planet rule leaves way too much space for individual interpretation and judgement, which is a bad thing. While we're at it, the entire idea behind the rule is rotten and made by someone with no insight at all, and the whole thing should just be scrapped completely, instead of trying to modify or upgrade it to become "clearer" (which is impossible as well).
__________________
R4-R9.5 ETY | ViruS | Retalion | Other...
Inactive R13 and a couple of later rounds.
Talin is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 9 Jul 2007, 18:37   #127
Phil^
Insomniac
 
Phil^'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 3,583
Phil^ spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldPhil^ spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldPhil^ spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldPhil^ spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldPhil^ spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldPhil^ spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldPhil^ spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldPhil^ spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldPhil^ spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldPhil^ spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldPhil^ spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus would
Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Quote:
Originally Posted by shibaMac
No, again, for the millionth time. There is no evidence he cheated. There is no rule being clearly violated.
Actively scanned for an alliance he was not part of ( since it seems you dont want to confess that its just a support wing of the same group )
Quote:
Originally Posted by eula
(f) Support Accounts are accounts which are dedicated to undertaking specific
and repeated actions which result in an unfair benefit for a
planet/organisation, where an organisation is defined as an alliance or galaxy.
Specific - check ( Scans )
Repeated + Dedicated - check ( Scanned quite a hefy % for the same group )
Unfair - Grey area. Is it unfair that an alliance has a scanner working for them while not belonging to ( and dragging down the average score for ) their tag? Probably. Alliances should have their scanners in their own tag if they are going to use their services.
Organisation - Check.

Seems reasonably clear which parts you just need to check against to determine guilt or innocence.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shibaMac
Don't you get why people are upset? This could happen to you next. Or me, or any of the players. Because the rules aren't clear, and there's precious little oversight, it's wide open for abuse of power. How can you not have a problem with this?
In not 100% if its genuine upset/shock/etc or just another ploy. text is unemotive
The rules are moderately clear but it would be better for things to be hardcoded and take the strain off the hunters for having to check 1001 things

As for no oversight - are you serious?
Theres the MH manager, Pateam, and above them Jolt.
'Abuse of power' is the favourite slogan screamed by those who have no genuine grievance but just want to cause problems for the sake of doing so.
There are checks every step of the way with a closure procedure.
Evidence is gathered, a case is made, the planet is closed and actively told to seek communication with the hunter to explain their side of things. After which they have a punishment decided for them if they are guilty. After this is the appeal process where they can go to the head of the hunters for a final say.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shibaMac
Are you actually comparing this situation to a court of law? Can you not see how patently moronic that is? There's not even an incidental similarity between the justice system and an internet game. Get a clue.
Laws are rules of society , enforced by the police and judicial system, written by the politicians.
Rules are the rules of the game, enforced by the multihunters, written by pateam

Theres a reasonable similarity there for analogy no?
__________________
Phil^
Phil^ is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 9 Jul 2007, 18:49   #128
Talin
Mildly Amused
 
Talin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 105
Talin will become famous soon enoughTalin will become famous soon enough
Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil^
Repeated + Dedicated - check ( Scanned quite a hefy % for the same group )
Unfair - Grey area. Is it unfair that an alliance has a scanner working for them while not belonging to ( and dragging down the average score for ) their tag? Probably. Alliances should have their scanners in their own tag if they are going to use their services.
Organisation - Check.
The "grey area" part of that analysis pretty much makes all other arguments null and void.

First of all, no one should get to decide what is "unfair" and what isn't, unless there is a detailed list of all "unfair" actions. Second of all, basing a judgement on someone's (subjective) opinion of wheter something is unfair or not is infinitely idiotic.

If I was a MH, I would never have closed Achi because I wouldn't think that what he was doing was unfair in any way. Even if two thousand players were showing me evidence against his actions, I still wouldn't have closed him because I simply don't see anything unfair there. No unfairness, no unfair benefit, no case. Thanks and come again.

Remy (or the entire MH team, it doesn't matter) decided that Achi's scanning gave Asc an "unfair benefit", and closed him based on that. Now, Remy can also think of a dozen of other ways to implement this rule, just by figuring out what else would be an "unfair benefit" to some alliance, and close basically anyone he feels like - while still following the rule.

Ultimately, it would be perfectly within the rule to close anyone who attacks with an alliance (even if it's his own, irrelevant), because it's a specific, repeated action which benefits an organization - and to complete the formula, MH decides that anything except solo attacks is unfair (nothing is stopping him to do so).

Get it now?
__________________
R4-R9.5 ETY | ViruS | Retalion | Other...
Inactive R13 and a couple of later rounds.

Last edited by Talin; 9 Jul 2007 at 18:55.
Talin is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 9 Jul 2007, 18:54   #129
Mzyxptlk
mz.
Alien Invasion Champion, Submarine Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Barts Watersports Adventure Champion
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Quote:
Originally Posted by EULA
(f) Support Accounts are accounts which are dedicated to undertaking specific
and repeated actions which result in an unfair benefit for a
planet/organisation, where an organisation is defined as an alliance or galaxy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil^
Actively scanned for an alliance he was not part of ( since it seems you dont want to confess that its just a support wing of the same group )
Specific - check ( Scans )
Repeated + Dedicated - check ( Scanned quite a hefy % for the same group )
Unfair - Grey area. Is it unfair that an alliance has a scanner working for them while not belonging to ( and dragging down the average score for ) their tag? Probably. Alliances should have their scanners in their own tag if they are going to use their services.
Organisation - Check.

Seems reasonably clear which parts you just need to check against to determine guilt or innocence.
Indeed. A planet needs to meet the requirements I made bold in order to be deemed closable. I'll go over them again.

Dedicated - check (a scanner is primarily dedicated to scans only, and Achi is no exception)
Specific - check (see above)
Repeated - check (again, see above)
Advantage - fail (getting scans clearly gives you an edge over those who don't. But then, Transcendancy scans for everyone, so there is no one left that doesn't get scans, which voids this point)
Unfair - fail (as per the above point, no one has a disadvantage)
Organisation - fail (the universe is not an organisation)

There are numerous actions that meet with the first 3 points, that no one considers a breach of the support planet rule. The only thing that Achi could be doing wrong in this case would be refusing to scan certain coordinates, or refusing to scan for some people. I've not seen any evidence that would support this claim.
__________________
The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
Mzyxptlk is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 9 Jul 2007, 18:56   #130
furball
Registered Awesome Person
 
furball's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 5,676
furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil^
Unfair - Grey area. Is it unfair that an alliance has a scanner working for them while not belonging to ( and dragging down the average score for ) their tag? Probably. Alliances should have their scanners in their own tag if they are going to use their services.
You're saying that all alliances should have their own specialist scanners. I fundamentally disagree with this.
__________________
Finally free!
furball is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 9 Jul 2007, 18:59   #131
Phil^
Insomniac
 
Phil^'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 3,583
Phil^ spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldPhil^ spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldPhil^ spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldPhil^ spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldPhil^ spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldPhil^ spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldPhil^ spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldPhil^ spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldPhil^ spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldPhil^ spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldPhil^ spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus would
Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Quote:
Originally Posted by Talin
The "grey area" part of that analysis pretty much makes all other arguments null and void.

First of all, no one should get to decide what is "unfair" and what isn't
erm? Pateam?
They develop the game, dont you think that gives them the right to determine what is and is not fair in it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Talin
unless there is a detailed list of all "unfair" actions. Second of all, basing a judgement on someone's (subjective) opinion of wheter something is unfair or not is infinitely idiotic.
thats sort of what the eula tries to do. it lists actions which are forbidden because they were deemed to be unfair

Quote:
Originally Posted by Talin
Remy (or the entire MH team, it doesn't matter) decided that Achi's scanning gave Asc an "unfair benefit", and closed him based on that.
He applied the rule to the situation. Thats his job as a multihunter

Quote:
Originally Posted by Talin
Now, Remy can also think of a dozen of other ways to implement this rule, just by figuring out what else would be an "unfair benefit".

Get it?
yeah, he could but why would he?
he has nothing to gain by doing so, only more work
__________________
Phil^
Phil^ is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 9 Jul 2007, 19:00   #132
Ramihyn
Emperor
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: in front of a computer
Posts: 490
Ramihyn has much to be proud ofRamihyn has much to be proud ofRamihyn has much to be proud ofRamihyn has much to be proud ofRamihyn has much to be proud ofRamihyn has much to be proud ofRamihyn has much to be proud ofRamihyn has much to be proud ofRamihyn has much to be proud of
Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Quote:
Originally Posted by Remy
You have no access to the logs like i do, so you might not even be ABLE to see WHY such scans are related to asc.
The standard reply #1 - "we have LOGS and know SO MUCH MORE then you do" (but sadly we cant show you so you need to trust us)

From experience throughout many past PA years, i have no problem calling that BS

Quote:
Originally Posted by Remy
2 small things: nowhere did we express the % of scans you need to do before being seen as a support planet, so maybe 50% was enough, or 30%, or 80%? Did you care to ask?
Thats pretty much highlighting one of the beauties of arbitrary rules like the "support planet" one - the definition fits whatever is needed at that moment. What would be the point in asking about it? Obviously you cant or dont want to make the rule more precise or why dont you dare to write it clearly into the EULA?

The problem is that too many people agree to unfair and ridiculous EULAs because they hope it wont be applied to them or the "creative interpretation" wont hurt them. Well sometimes it does.
Ramihyn is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 9 Jul 2007, 19:07   #133
shibaMac
huzo0r
 
shibaMac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Ireland
Posts: 58
shibaMac has a spectacular aura aboutshibaMac has a spectacular aura about
Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil^
Actively scanned for an alliance he was not part of ( since it seems you dont want to confess that its just a support wing of the same group )
Umm, cos it's not. It's another tag, with people in it that aren't playing too seriously. This was cleared pre-round. Are you saying Fiery ok'd a support alliance?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil^
Specific - check ( Scans )
Repeated + Dedicated - check ( Scanned quite a hefy % for the same group )
This is just essentially requoting the really really unclear rule. You can't even talk about the rule without being non-specific. What exactly is a "hefty" percentage. What is less than "hefty" that I as a transcendancy scanner have to avoid? If a "hefty" percentage of the people who ask me for scans are in Vision, will I be closed? What if Ascendancy players ask me? Is this the same "hefty", or a different one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil^
Unfair - Grey area. Is it unfair that an alliance has a scanner working for them while not belonging to ( and dragging down the average score for ) their tag? Probably. Alliances should have their scanners in their own tag if they are going to use their services.
In your opinion. I tend to agree, but that's not what the support planet rule was intended to do. And again, Achilles was scanning for everyone, in #transcendancy, just as I am, and dec is. Given that we're not closed yet, I can only assume we're not doing anything wrong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil^
Seems reasonably clear which parts you just need to check against to determine guilt or innocence.
Not to me. Not to the MHs, by their own admission.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil^
In not 100% if its genuine upset/shock/etc or just another ploy. text is unemotive
I'm getting really sick of being told that this is some kind of ploy. Who exactly do you think I am? If you're making claims like this, you better have something to back them up other than baseless speculation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil^
The rules are moderately clear but it would be better for things to be hardcoded and take the strain off the hunters for having to check 1001 things
You know, Mz said something along these lines recently, and I laughed my ass off because I knew he was joking. Just what we need, more rules, more things hardcoded.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil^
'Abuse of power' is the favourite slogan screamed by those who have no genuine grievance but just want to cause problems for the sake of doing so.
And those who have been the victims of abuse of power, and their supporters.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil^
Laws are rules of society , enforced by the police and judicial system, written by the politicians.
Rules are the rules of the game, enforced by the multihunters, written by pateam

Theres a reasonable similarity there for analogy no?
Given the incredible complexity, checks and balances, and accountability of any first world legal system, I suppose there's enough of a similarity for a really really bad analogy.
shibaMac is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 9 Jul 2007, 19:11   #134
Talin
Mildly Amused
 
Talin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 105
Talin will become famous soon enoughTalin will become famous soon enough
Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil^
erm? Pateam?
They develop the game, dont you think that gives them the right to determine what is and is not fair in it?
That's a debate which I wouldn't want to get into now (also largely off-topic).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil^
thats sort of what the eula tries to do. it lists actions which are forbidden because they were deemed to be unfair
Uh, no, it doesn't. There's nothing that says that repeated scanning for an organization is unfair benefit. It says "unfair benefits", without specifying what they are. And so the MH can make up those unfair benefits at spot, like someone just did when Achi was closed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil^
He applied the rule to the situation. Thats his job as a multihunter
Are you refusing to read? He didn't apply the rule, he applied his own interpretation of it because the rule allows him to do so without any limitations.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil^
yeah, he could but why would he?
he has nothing to gain by doing so, only more work
Lolling. "He could but has nothing to gain"? Is that supposed to be an argument? Thanks for heavily underlining my point.

Someone (cba to read up again) pointed out the analogy with law. The exact analogy with law would be having a statmement along the lines of: "Every unfair action towards an organization is punishable by law".

And then the prosecutor can accuse anyone of anything, and the court decides wheter what the man did was unfair or not (and makes a judgement based on that). That is not law, that is lack of law.
__________________
R4-R9.5 ETY | ViruS | Retalion | Other...
Inactive R13 and a couple of later rounds.

Last edited by Talin; 9 Jul 2007 at 19:16.
Talin is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 9 Jul 2007, 19:14   #135
shibaMac
huzo0r
 
shibaMac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Ireland
Posts: 58
shibaMac has a spectacular aura aboutshibaMac has a spectacular aura about
Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Quote:
Originally Posted by talin
The "grey area" part of that analysis pretty much makes all other arguments null and void.

First of all, no one should get to decide what is "unfair" and what isn't



Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil^
erm? Pateam?
They develop the game, dont you think that gives them the right to determine what is and is not fair in it?
erm? no? That wouldn't be fair. Things are fair (or just) or they're not. No one can decide one way or the other.
shibaMac is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 9 Jul 2007, 19:26   #136
Cannon_Fodder
Registered User
 
Cannon_Fodder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,174
Cannon_Fodder spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldCannon_Fodder spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldCannon_Fodder spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldCannon_Fodder spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldCannon_Fodder spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldCannon_Fodder spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldCannon_Fodder spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldCannon_Fodder spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldCannon_Fodder spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldCannon_Fodder spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldCannon_Fodder spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus would
Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Signed.


P.S. Jesus christ wakey and gio2k need to buy a clue.
__________________
If one person is in delusion, they're called insane.
If many people are in delusion, it's called a religion.
Cannon_Fodder is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 9 Jul 2007, 19:32   #137
Achilles
Poblacht na hÉireann
 
Achilles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,167
Achilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAchilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAchilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAchilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAchilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAchilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAchilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAchilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAchilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAchilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAchilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus would
Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Quote:
That is not law, that is lack of law.
The correct parlance would be Kangaroo Court. Widely used in organisations such as the IRA and it is actually an excellent analogy.
Achilles is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 9 Jul 2007, 20:06   #138
Entium
Registered User
 
Entium's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Confœderatio Helvetica
Posts: 323
Entium has much to be proud ofEntium has much to be proud ofEntium has much to be proud ofEntium has much to be proud ofEntium has much to be proud ofEntium has much to be proud ofEntium has much to be proud ofEntium has much to be proud ofEntium has much to be proud ofEntium has much to be proud of
Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Quote:
Originally Posted by Achilles
Upon speaking to Fiery I was told that I had been closed because 90% of my scans were done for the benefit of Ascendancy.
That's probably the lowest point Planetarion has ever reached during its time of existence.
Entium is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 9 Jul 2007, 20:13   #139
AdmV0rl0n
Registered User
 
AdmV0rl0n's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 207
AdmV0rl0n is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Quote:
Originally Posted by Remy
Normally, we cannot comment on cases, but since you chose to throw it all o the forum, i guess i can comment here too, even though it will be short.

Your analysis is wrong, you are free to speak to ME about it, so i can explain it a bit more in detail. You have no access to the logs like i do, so you might not even be ABLE to see WHY such scans are related to asc.

Of course a few of those annotations will be wrong, or possibly a bit far fetched (if you see him scanning a whole galaxy, that is attacked by asc a few ticks later, then one combo of tech/unit scan on one of the not attacked planets in that gal at the same time he scanned the rest, is prbably a scanned planet not attacked because no1 liked it ), but on the other had, some i will have annotated as non Asc, when they indeed WERE asc related.

2 small things: nowhere did we express the % of scans you need to do before being seen as a support planet, so maybe 50% was enough, or 30%, or 80%? Did you care to ask?

Im not an administrator, i am a multihunter.

No, and I don't believe we would see any possible logic in the answer.
And here is a bloody clue for you, They players should not have to ask, YOU and PA team should specify it if you happen to know what it is. Its called writing up the actual rules, and not operating in MultiHunter EULA Myth land.

If you know what the percentage is, then put it clearly in the rules for RD23.

Maybe some of you should take your head out your arses, and focus on the actual original and prime purpose of your existance, and focus on Multi's.
AdmV0rl0n is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 9 Jul 2007, 20:19   #140
Allfather
The PropaGhandi
 
Allfather's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 796
Allfather is infamous around these partsAllfather is infamous around these partsAllfather is infamous around these partsAllfather is infamous around these partsAllfather is infamous around these partsAllfather is infamous around these parts
Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

21:13 -!- Topic for #transcendancy: Scans for free, ask in channel. PM if no reply. Volunteer community scanners - Achi, Dec, huzo0r, marty, mz, NitinA, ZamaZ || Pm an @ to be added to munin as a guest. || Use -intel over !in..|| Free covop: AllFather


-Remy = Arse.
How many public scans do you think this chan generates on average?
some people ask for 1 scan, some for 3-4-5-6-7-8-9-10 a pop.....
__________________
Free imagehosting: Link
Free scans: #transcendancy

<Deffeh> I just told my parents im a homosexual, now they kicked me out
Allfather is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 9 Jul 2007, 20:37   #141
AdmV0rl0n
Registered User
 
AdmV0rl0n's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 207
AdmV0rl0n is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Originally Posted by EULA
(f) Support Accounts are accounts which are dedicated to undertaking specific
and repeated actions which result in an unfair benefit for a
planet/organisation, where an organisation is defined as an alliance or galaxy.

----------------

I cannot think of a round where I have played, where there has *not* been a good egg in a gal doing scans to help his gal mates out, dedicated, specific, and repeated.

So, PAteam, how far are you going to let this absolute horsecrap continue. Are you going to start throwing out scanners in gal who happen to scan too many times for gal mates?

As for REMY and his mythical % percentage that he knows but we should ask for, probably after having our ass handed to us by a closure.

1. Write up the goddamn rules, OR GET OUT.
2. All cases of closure should come with a pack of compiled evidence given to the closee, If the close wishes to disclose that private information in discussion that should be their choice. The MHs should also be able to disclose all info if they choose that option.
3. If you can't be arsed to fix the rules, then FIX the goddamn support planet problem NOW, and have at least that written up in a soldi way, and if you can't do that right, then follow Marv's comment on simplifying it and get rid of the damn thing and focus on the things that matter, not this crap.

SIGNED.
Achilles, Your planet needs to be restored.
AdmV0rl0n is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 9 Jul 2007, 21:21   #142
Zaejii
This Space for Rent
Speedy Thief Champion, Turbo Turtle Champion, Cop-For-This Champion
 
Zaejii's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 583
Zaejii has much to be proud ofZaejii has much to be proud ofZaejii has much to be proud ofZaejii has much to be proud ofZaejii has much to be proud ofZaejii has much to be proud ofZaejii has much to be proud ofZaejii has much to be proud of
Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

i love how people are all caught up on the *sc thing being blocked and against the rules, but VGN and Jenova can be blocked (both 70 member alliances), attack together, share scans, and it is not against the same rules. not to mention the big alliances with people HIDING out of tag or in other tags instead of making it fairly obvious that they had a member overflow. hm.



if one planet gets closed for one thing, all planets doing such thing should also be closed. it should be an all or nothing rule. if you want to interpret it in your own unique way, then come down on every single person in the game that has done anything similar to it. otherwise, fix the rule, make it clear and specific.
__________________
When in doubt, blame Ascendancy.
#pastats
Zaejii is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 9 Jul 2007, 21:37   #143
Virall
The Scareh Clown
 
Virall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 275
Virall is a splendid one to beholdVirall is a splendid one to beholdVirall is a splendid one to beholdVirall is a splendid one to beholdVirall is a splendid one to beholdVirall is a splendid one to beholdVirall is a splendid one to behold
Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Well, this proves two things.

A) When banded together, an experience community 'obviously' knows nothing and cleary doesn't know what its on about (Note sarcasm).

B) We have a team of dull ****s heading the MH that can't admit when they're wrong.





Shower of shite.
Virall is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 9 Jul 2007, 22:20   #144
qebab
The Original Carebear
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Trondheim, Norway
Posts: 1,048
qebab is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himqebab is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himqebab is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himqebab is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himqebab is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himqebab is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himqebab is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himqebab is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himqebab is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himqebab is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himqebab is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like him
Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Hahaha. Joking, right? No?

Yeah, okay. Not paying to play a game where I can lose my money on being closed for anything, if a multihunter has a bad day. \o

Edit: Yeah, I really do mean this. This is an excellent occasion to quit a game that really bores me lately anyway. I was going to scan next round but now, why would I?
__________________
If at first you don't succeed, try, try again. Then quit. No use being a damn fool about it.

Oh crap, I might be back. I should take my own advice.
qebab is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 9 Jul 2007, 23:42   #145
Gio2k
Bolivian Alpaca
 
Gio2k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 912
Gio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond reputeGio2k has a reputation beyond repute
Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Quote:
Originally Posted by Achilles
I'm afraid that's not true man. From the other thread:
Now I ask you, how can this same rule, this EXACT same rule, be applied so differently now than it was then? Also, as far as I know, this is the first ever round where someone has been closed solely for scanning. Why is it that these same multihunters are applying different standards in 2 different rounds with the EXACT same rule in place?

Gio, speaking a little offtopic here but I think it's pretty shit of you to condemn what we are doing when you haven't even taken a look for yourself.
It was exactly this same rule somewhere in r17 (i guess) that got covert oppers out of eXilition tag closed, for targetting mostly 1up scanners. The fact is that this rule leaves a lot up to the interpretation of the multihunter, and it's dumb as it gets, but it has been around since r15 i think.
I am not condemning anyone, i just think that Remy has done nothing wrong, if i saw a planet out of tag whose jgp scans are 90% used for the benefit of one particular alliance, i would not think twice about closing it. As long as the support planet rule stays in place it classifies such behaviour as support planet. Perhaps your motives were truly altruistic, perhaps not. In any case i think it is irrelevant whether you broke the support planet rule with nothing but good intentions on your mind or just to see how far you can push the interpretation of the rule, or whatever reason you might come up with. The only thing that matters is that the rule allows the MH to close your planet for being a support planet.
__________________
"I throw myself into the sea, release the wave, let it wash over me ..."
MadCowS - Angels - eXilition - Destiny - Wolfpack - Jenova - p3nguins
Gio2k is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10 Jul 2007, 02:33   #146
Makhil
Registered User
 
Makhil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,663
Makhil is a splendid one to beholdMakhil is a splendid one to beholdMakhil is a splendid one to beholdMakhil is a splendid one to beholdMakhil is a splendid one to beholdMakhil is a splendid one to beholdMakhil is a splendid one to behold
Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

There's no black or white in the grey zone... surprised ?
Obviously some alliances are reluctant to add all their scanners in the tag coz they want to compete for top spots. A possible solution would be to allow the alliances to tag up to 10(?) planet as "scanners" without counting them in the alliance score.
__________________
<smith> You're 15 and full of shit.
<Furious_George> no, im 22
Makhil is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10 Jul 2007, 08:03   #147
Tietäjä
Good Son
 
Tietäjä's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Finland
Posts: 3,991
Tietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better place
Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gio2k
It was exactly this same rule somewhere in r17 (i guess) that got covert oppers out of eXilition tag closed, for targetting mostly 1up scanners. The fact is that this rule leaves a lot up to the interpretation of the multihunter, and it's dumb as it gets, but it has been around since r15 i think.

Funny you mentioned, come to think of it. In fact, several eXilition out of tag scanners were getting caned in round 18 for covert operating/scanning for eXilition out of tag. So in this aspect, there is an existing case in the game history that talks about the incident (which sort of validates the closure and definately abolishes Rob's point on "being allowed before"). Well.

Doesn't make it any less stupid.

In fact, we (read: Omen) hosted some of them in our tag (I can remember Odihnitoru, the eXilition scan/covert operation team officer was in our tag hiding from the multihunters) probably because it was pretty damn ridiculous.
Tietäjä is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10 Jul 2007, 09:31   #148
JonnyBGood
Banned
 
JonnyBGood's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Further to the right
Posts: 19,441
JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Quote:
and definately abolishes Rob's point on "being allowed before"
Actually it really means it's been both allowed and forbidden before with basically nobody announcing that the rules were changing. If we look at, say r19, and exilition's strategy there it's fairly clear that as stringent an application of the support planet rule at that point would have led to the closing of all those planets in whatever the hell tag it was.
__________________
Some might ask what good is life without purpose but I'm anticipating a good lunch.
JonnyBGood is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10 Jul 2007, 10:07   #149
Tietäjä
Good Son
 
Tietäjä's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Finland
Posts: 3,991
Tietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better place
Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
If we look at, say r19, and exilition's strategy there it's fairly clear that as stringent an application of the support planet rule at that point would have led to the closing of all those planets in whatever the hell tag it was.
And 1up round 17? (Nihilium tag, but given that'd validate closures of all merging alliances, which would radically abolish the whole purpose of merging!).

It doesn't change the fact has been punished for before, given it wouldn't be so very surprising if it gets punished for again (whereas if it had never been punished for it'd be "the first time").

It's not like it the viper planets were banned before Assassin made a rules change in the middle of the round (and subsequently joined 1up). The whole enforcement of the support planet rule is based on how much sand can be found in a multihunter's vagina or packed below his foreskin on a given period of time.
Tietäjä is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10 Jul 2007, 10:41   #150
JonnyBGood
Banned
 
JonnyBGood's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Further to the right
Posts: 19,441
JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: An Open Letter to the Planetarion Players

Actually if those were closed for covert-ops and not scanning then they're entirely separate to rob's case as I don't believe he'd bothered with covert-ops yet.
__________________
Some might ask what good is life without purpose but I'm anticipating a good lunch.
JonnyBGood is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 23:29.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2002 - 2018