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Unread 11 Mar 2006, 17:22   #1
SYMM
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[BBC]JJ's Idea of a good weekend?

Quote:
A motorist drove for 60 miles at speeds of 135mph after the accelerator on his BMW car jammed and his brakes failed.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/4796264.stm

I get scared when I find myself doing 80 on the motorway
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Unread 11 Mar 2006, 17:25   #2
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Re: [BBC]JJ's Idea of a good weekend?

Thats because you are a pussy. Real men travel at 95/100

ROAR


I dont understand why he didnt just turn the engine off. and then the key back into the second position before ignition...it enables power steering but no engine?
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Unread 11 Mar 2006, 17:28   #3
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Re: [BBC]JJ's Idea of a good weekend?

Incidently its a testament to BMW safety that hes alive. Given that its an R Reg so not exaactly 'latest and upto date' to survive a crash at 130mph and walk away relatively unharmed is astonishing.
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Unread 11 Mar 2006, 17:31   #4
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Re: [BBC]JJ's Idea of a good weekend?

No.

Real men travel at Mach 1.2.

<3 you Cruisey.


But yeah, turning the engine off would have worked. To be fair to him though, would you have thought of that whilst bucketing down the A1 at 70mph with no brakes and the thoughts of burning and dying against a lamp-post in your mind?
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Unread 11 Mar 2006, 17:32   #5
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Re: [BBC]JJ's Idea of a good weekend?

Turn the engine off, take the thing out of gear!
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Unread 11 Mar 2006, 17:33   #6
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Re: [BBC]JJ's Idea of a good weekend?

Um, the gears were jammed. It states that in the article.

But no, turn the engine off, leave it in gear. The gear ratio and no power from the engine will slow the car faster than letting it freewheel.
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Unread 11 Mar 2006, 17:34   #7
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Re: [BBC]JJ's Idea of a good weekend?

Quote:
Originally Posted by skiddy
No.

Real men travel at Mach 1.2.

<3 you Cruisey.


But yeah, turning the engine off would have worked. To be fair to him though, would you have thought of that whilst bucketing down the A1 at 70mph with no brakes and the thoughts of burning and dying against a lamp-post in your mind?

Yes.. It wouldve been the first thing i wouldve done apart from maybe put it into neutral which he said he couldnt do. Which im not sure I believe because ive pushed the autobox on my car into neutral a fair few times purely by accident and its the same make.
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Unread 11 Mar 2006, 17:35   #8
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Re: [BBC]JJ's Idea of a good weekend?

The fact that the accelerator got stuck in the first place detracts from the other safety matters somewhat.

I still don't understand why he didn't turn off the engine though. I listened to the radio interview, and he said he'd have lost everything if he did, giving power steering as a major reason. At 130mph you don't NEED power steering, and it's probably not engaged at anything much above 30 anyway as the handling is light enough on its own by then.

I know its easy to say after the event, but I reckon the best thing to do would have been to turn the engine off, and use what was left of the brakes (and gently apply the handbrake). The engine was in gear, so it would have slowed pretty quickly from 130 just from the friction, and then at a "safeish" speed you could bump it on to the central reservation to slow it down to a stop.

As he had a police escort by that point, I'd have thought it would be a much more attractive option than ploughing head on into a roundabout.
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Unread 11 Mar 2006, 17:57   #9
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Re: [BBC]JJ's Idea of a good weekend?

Quote:
Originally Posted by skiddy
Um, the gears were jammed. It states that in the article.
I didn't read the article, durr!
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Unread 11 Mar 2006, 18:00   #10
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Re: [BBC]JJ's Idea of a good weekend?

Interesting case. He used his breakes till they where burned out, i think in the interview with the female race driver she mentioned that its a difficult decision if he should have turned off the engine because of the steering problems if he has no experience in what exactly that results in ("nothing works anymore" - as he was saying).

Personally i would have turned the engine of in my car because some months ago i did excercises with a professional driver, training stuff like that and more so i know i can actually still control my car without electronic help.

I guess he handled it pretty nicely - however if he had crashed into some other cars resulting in killing or seriously harming other people, we would all condemn him now for not "doing the right thing" by turning of the engine
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Unread 12 Mar 2006, 23:12   #11
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Re: [BBC]JJ's Idea of a good weekend?

if its stuck in gear turning the engine off then putting it back into 'on' will just 'push start' the engine into ignition

if its a manual just stick your foot on the clutch, bring it to a stop then turn it off before the engine goes waaaamoooshhhhh

if you're an american/unable to coordinate and drive an automatic making it fairly straight on the hardshoulder turning the engine off and using the brakes/handbrake (gently) is what i would have done, tooting my horn like a mad man before hand to make drivers avoid me.
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Unread 12 Mar 2006, 23:22   #12
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Re: [BBC]JJ's Idea of a good weekend?

Quote:
Originally Posted by milo
if its stuck in gear turning the engine off then putting it back into 'on' will just 'push start' the engine into ignition

if its a manual just stick your foot on the clutch, bring it to a stop then turn it off before the engine goes waaaamoooshhhhh

if you're an american/unable to coordinate and drive an automatic making it fairly straight on the hardshoulder turning the engine off and using the brakes/handbrake (gently) is what i would have done, tooting my horn like a mad man before hand to make drivers avoid me.

of course turning the engine off and back on will turn it on. You wouldnt want to turn it back on youd want it off but with the electrics still working or at least in position 1 so the steering isnt locked because then you really would be fecked.
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Unread 13 Mar 2006, 01:16   #13
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Re: [BBC]JJ's Idea of a good weekend?

Quote:
Originally Posted by milo
if its a manual just stick your foot on the clutch, bring it to a stop then turn it off before the engine goes waaaamoooshhhhh
There is no reason on earth to do this. I know of no car that disables the steering when the engine is off such that there isn't an override. My car will lock the steering wheel with the ignition off, but not if you have it at stages 1 (activates basic essential systems like the lights and the brake servo) or 2 (everything else such as power to accessories and does the computer checks) - so you could either take the key out then reinsert and activate the electronics, or just twist lightly back to stage 2 to kill the engine while leaving the electronics operating.

Even on a car with fully electric "fly by wire" style steering (ie. no direct mechanical link from the wheel to the steering rack) the steering will still be active in any pre-start ignition position. What use is a car that you can't steer with the engine off? What the hell would happen if you stalled? How would you move it if you ran out of petrol, broke down, or needed to be towed?

So as I said previously, I still think the best course of action would be to turn on full beam headlights, hazard lights, foglights, anything to make you visable (as the police advised), then flick the key back a stage killing the engine, leave the car in top gear (it'll slow faster working against the engine), and head either for the grass verge if there is one, or the central reservation which is usually grass or gravel. Some healthy use of the horn probably wouldn't hurt either.

Again, it's easy to rationalise this after the event and say "oh well I'd have done this", but I'm surprised the police didn't advise him to kill the engine - especially when he was heading for the roundabout.
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Unread 13 Mar 2006, 07:16   #14
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Re: [BBC]JJ's Idea of a good weekend?

tbh they should've just shot him with this

fools.
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Unread 13 Mar 2006, 07:22   #15
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Re: [BBC]JJ's Idea of a good weekend?

Most drivers, in my opinion, would have no idea what to do in this situation, or other "emergency" situations. I think emergency driving courses, at the moment, are more of a novelty then some thing most people should consider taking. He did well, especially under the circumstances.
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Unread 13 Mar 2006, 11:13   #16
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Re: [BBC]JJ's Idea of a good weekend?

'Kevin Nicolle, 26, was on the A1 near Thirsk in North Yorkshire when the car started to accelerate.'

thats where I got caught doing 96mph, and got a speeding ticket Who would of thought the police had a done up lexus! Anyway he said he wouldnt issue a court summons, you get one if your going over 95 I think? So instead just gave me a ticket, still was a sad day
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Unread 13 Mar 2006, 11:39   #17
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Re: [BBC]JJ's Idea of a good weekend?

I thought that was scarying close too, Alki. You could have followed him and given a GD commentary!

I like this:
Quote:
Mr Nicolle was in constant contact with the police on a hands-free phone.
"hurray, hands free safety thing" but seriously, who's going to be driving at 135 MPH with a phone in their hand?

I hope he sorts something out with BMW.

The Blythe roundabout isn't that bad, but at that speed there's no chance of getting around it.
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Unread 13 Mar 2006, 11:54   #18
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Re: [BBC]JJ's Idea of a good weekend?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Appocomaster
"hurray, hands free safety thing" but seriously, who's going to be driving at 135 MPH with a phone in their hand?
Hands free phones are barely safer than non-hands free phones.
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Unread 13 Mar 2006, 12:20   #19
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Re: [BBC]JJ's Idea of a good weekend?

i dont agree. mine syncs with the car via bluetooth. i dont even have to take my hands of the wheel as theres a button on it which will answer the call. the speakers act as the phone speaker (duh) and theres a small mic hidden close to the lights (on the roof). It is infinitely more safe than picking up the phone and dialing or even picking it up and holding it to head.
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Unread 13 Mar 2006, 12:46   #20
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Re: [BBC]JJ's Idea of a good weekend?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JammyJim
i dont agree. mine syncs with the car via bluetooth. i dont even have to take my hands of the wheel as theres a button on it which will answer the call. the speakers act as the phone speaker (duh) and theres a small mic hidden close to the lights (on the roof). It is infinitely more safe than picking up the phone and dialing or even picking it up and holding it to head.
It sounds like some sort of state of the art amazingly cool new thing, with some sort of Kit-type voice to talk to you and a sat nav system that actually works.
Just waiting for you to tell me it's in a skoda now or something.
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Unread 13 Mar 2006, 12:47   #21
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Re: [BBC]JJ's Idea of a good weekend?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JammyJim
i dont agree. mine syncs with the car via bluetooth. i dont even have to take my hands of the wheel as theres a button on it which will answer the call. the speakers act as the phone speaker (duh) and theres a small mic hidden close to the lights (on the roof). It is infinitely more safe than picking up the phone and dialing or even picking it up and holding it to head.
The major safety risk is the distraction while talking on the phone, you know.
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Unread 13 Mar 2006, 12:56   #22
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Re: [BBC]JJ's Idea of a good weekend?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri
The major safety risk is the distraction while talking on the phone, you know.
To some extent.
However, I talk to whoever is in the car with me all the time.
A lot of people drive "subconciously" - they use the part of their brain near the base of the skull (which is image recognition, not active concious sight as such) and then it triggers the brain to pay attention when something unexpected happens.
Hands up drivers who actively spend *every second* of driving thinking about nothing but the road, and so on.
Learning how to drive is just making the driving process second nature and subconcious, so you don't have to actively think all the time.

Where was I going with this?
Oh yes, so speaking on the phone isn't that huge a distraction, as long as you don't look at the phone all the time and get too carried away talking. It can be a distraction, but so can someone else in the car, and someone else in the car is generally seen to be a GOOD thing because it stops you getting all caught up in trying to drive and screwing up.
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Unread 13 Mar 2006, 12:57   #23
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Re: [BBC]JJ's Idea of a good weekend?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Appocomaster
It sounds like some sort of state of the art amazingly cool new thing, with some sort of Kit-type voice to talk to you and a sat nav system that actually works.
Just waiting for you to tell me it's in a skoda now or something.
its meant to have voice activation but im buggered if i can get it working. oddly enough i call the car kitty because she does talk when satnav is on but shes (obviously) female so i couldnt call her kit.


its a BM btw. i just have to worry about the thing jamming into accelerate now lollerskates
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Unread 13 Mar 2006, 12:57   #24
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Re: [BBC]JJ's Idea of a good weekend?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri
The major safety risk is the distraction while talking on the phone, you know.

no more than listening to the radio or talking to someone in the passenger seat.
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Unread 13 Mar 2006, 12:59   #25
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Re: [BBC]JJ's Idea of a good weekend?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Appocomaster
To some extent.
However, I talk to whoever is in the car with me all the time.
A lot of people drive "subconciously" - they use the part of their brain near the base of the skull (which is image recognition, not active concious sight as such) and then it triggers the brain to pay attention when something unexpected happens.
Hands up drivers who actively spend *every second* of driving thinking about nothing but the road, and so on.
Learning how to drive is just making the driving process second nature and subconcious, so you don't have to actively think all the time.

.

I always wondered how i was able to drive mile after mile after mile and then arrive somewhere and think 'wait a minute...did i run any reds or do anything stupid because i cant for the life of me remember the past 30minutes of driving...'
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Unread 13 Mar 2006, 13:18   #26
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Re: [BBC]JJ's Idea of a good weekend?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JammyJim
I always wondered how i was able to drive mile after mile after mile and then arrive somewhere and think 'wait a minute...did i run any reds or do anything stupid because i cant for the life of me remember the past 30minutes of driving...'

Sometimes it's nice to think of things just to stop getting bored of driving. (running over pedestrians, while a popular thought, isn't usually a good idea).

On motorway driving I pick up "friends" who are travelling at the same speed. It's sort of sad when they turn off
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Unread 13 Mar 2006, 14:20   #27
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Re: [BBC]JJ's Idea of a good weekend?

heh i do that. some guy in a golf gti followed me for about 2 hours when travelling back from southampton late at night once. hed overtake me and then let me overtake him and wed carve round what little traffic there was. When he pulled off he gave me a quick flash to say bye.

it made me smile. ive started doing it now if i find a 'friend' on the motorway. i tend to give them a quick flash to say 'tata' when i pull off.


that sounds so sad
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Unread 13 Mar 2006, 14:38   #28
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Re: [BBC]JJ's Idea of a good weekend?

idd that is sad, i remember following a car on a single country road, he was doing 20, and it was 60. So as i slowed down i came closer to him, suddenly he stopped and inidcated to pull over i overtook, and he suddenly sped up behind me with his full beam on, i was like wtf, so i kept braking harshly, then he decided to leave it alone. WHY?
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Unread 13 Mar 2006, 16:10   #29
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Re: [BBC]JJ's Idea of a good weekend?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JammyJim
no more than listening to the radio or talking to someone in the passenger seat.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Appocomaster
Oh yes, so speaking on the phone isn't that huge a distraction, as long as you don't look at the phone all the time and get too carried away talking. It can be a distraction, but so can someone else in the car, and someone else in the car is generally seen to be a GOOD thing because it stops you getting all caught up in trying to drive and screwing up.
You guys do realise that people in the car tend to stop talking when you're doing something that may be considered difficult, and somehow people on the other end of the phone don't know this? You guys do realise that most studies done demonstrate that users of mobile phones whilst driving are 3-5 times more likely to have accidents than people not using them, and that these figures are not significantly changed with different kinds (eg hands free) of phones?

No?
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Unread 13 Mar 2006, 16:22   #30
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Re: [BBC]JJ's Idea of a good weekend?

Quote:
Originally Posted by meglamaniac
The fact that the accelerator got stuck in the first place detracts from the other safety matters somewhat.

I still don't understand why he didn't turn off the engine though. I listened to the radio interview, and he said he'd have lost everything if he did, giving power steering as a major reason. At 130mph you don't NEED power steering, and it's probably not engaged at anything much above 30 anyway as the handling is light enough on its own by then.

I know its easy to say after the event, but I reckon the best thing to do would have been to turn the engine off, and use what was left of the brakes (and gently apply the handbrake). The engine was in gear, so it would have slowed pretty quickly from 130 just from the friction, and then at a "safeish" speed you could bump it on to the central reservation to slow it down to a stop.

As he had a police escort by that point, I'd have thought it would be a much more attractive option than ploughing head on into a roundabout.
If he had turned the engine off and lost the power steering, what would have happened to his steering ability? would it be just like driving an ordinary car without power steering? Given that he seems to have been going at a heck of a pace for quite a while on a relatively straight road, if this was the case I wouldn't really see the problem, then slowed down and then used the brakes (he burnt the brakes out at speed)

anyway, he was a fag for driving an automatic. manual all the way.
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Unread 13 Mar 2006, 16:29   #31
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Re: [BBC]JJ's Idea of a good weekend?

most probably his steering wheel would of locked
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Unread 13 Mar 2006, 16:54   #32
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Re: [BBC]JJ's Idea of a good weekend?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Radical Edward
If he had turned the engine off and lost the power steering, what would have happened to his steering ability? would it be just like driving an ordinary car without power steering? Given that he seems to have been going at a heck of a pace for quite a while on a relatively straight road, if this was the case I wouldn't really see the problem, then slowed down and then used the brakes (he burnt the brakes out at speed)

anyway, he was a fag for driving an automatic. manual all the way.
Power steering is not usually active by that speed, as it's not needed due to the speed making the steering lighter. If it is active, then it's actually there to make the steering heavier so that it feels consistant at all speeds. So, in short, he'd either feel no difference or it would feel lighter than normal, until he dropped to ~20mph when it would start to get pretty heavy.
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Unread 13 Mar 2006, 16:58   #33
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Re: [BBC]JJ's Idea of a good weekend?

Does anyone remember the similar incident with the lorry driver who it turned out was actually just after attention?
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Unread 13 Mar 2006, 17:29   #34
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Re: [BBC]JJ's Idea of a good weekend?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri
You guys do realise that people in the car tend to stop talking when you're doing something that may be considered difficult, and somehow people on the other end of the phone don't know this? You guys do realise that most studies done demonstrate that users of mobile phones whilst driving are 3-5 times more likely to have accidents than people not using them, and that these figures are not significantly changed with different kinds (eg hands free) of phones?

No?

Ive never heard Jeremy Vine on radio2 say "wait a minute everyone. JammyJim is currently performing a 3 point turn in a busy road. We will have a 30 second break in transmission so he can do it in silence...."

As for the figures you are probably totally right but for me i dont honestly have any change in concentration from when im listening to people talk on radio or in the car and i do on the phone. unless i have to write something down and take a swig of coke at the same time whilst driving with my knees at 90mph on the outside lane of the M40. You may be right in that scenario.
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Unread 13 Mar 2006, 18:07   #35
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Re: [BBC]JJ's Idea of a good weekend?

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Originally Posted by JammyJim
heh i do that. some guy in a golf gti followed me for about 2 hours when travelling back from southampton late at night once. hed overtake me and then let me overtake him and wed carve round what little traffic there was. When he pulled off he gave me a quick flash to say bye.

it made me smile. ive started doing it now if i find a 'friend' on the motorway. i tend to give them a quick flash to say 'tata' when i pull off.


that sounds so sad
Oh dear god
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Unread 13 Mar 2006, 18:57   #36
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Re: [BBC]JJ's Idea of a good weekend?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JammyJim
Ive never heard Jeremy Vine on radio2 say "wait a minute everyone. JammyJim is currently performing a 3 point turn in a busy road. We will have a 30 second break in transmission so he can do it in silence...."
Radio generally isn't a two way process.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JammyJim
As for the figures you are probably totally right but for me i dont honestly have any change in concentration from when im listening to people talk on radio or in the car and i do on the phone.
How exactly do you measure this?
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Unread 13 Mar 2006, 20:22   #37
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Re: [BBC]JJ's Idea of a good weekend?

Pedestrian Kills & Road accident without phone = 0
Pedestrian Kills & Road accident using phone = 0

Conclusive, no?
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Unread 13 Mar 2006, 21:32   #38
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Re: [BBC]JJ's Idea of a good weekend?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JammyJim
Pedestrian Kills & Road accident without phone = 0
Pedestrian Kills & Road accident using phone = 0

Conclusive, no?
your Nobel prize is in the post.
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Unread 13 Mar 2006, 23:21   #39
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Exclamation Re: [BBC]JJ's Idea of a good weekend?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JammyJim
no more than listening to the radio or talking to someone in the passenger seat.
I've found a couple of kids in the back seat arguing/fighting to be rather distracting.

"Daaad, Tony poked me."
"Did not."
"Did to."
"Did not!"
"Did to!"
...

After a while, you start wanting to have a car accident.
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Unread 14 Mar 2006, 03:48   #40
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Re: [BBC]JJ's Idea of a good weekend?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Appocomaster
To some extent.
However, I talk to whoever is in the car with me all the time.
A lot of people drive "subconciously" - they use the part of their brain near the base of the skull (which is image recognition, not active concious sight as such) and then it triggers the brain to pay attention when something unexpected happens.
Hands up drivers who actively spend *every second* of driving thinking about nothing but the road, and so on.
Learning how to drive is just making the driving process second nature and subconcious, so you don't have to actively think all the time.

Where was I going with this?
Oh yes, so speaking on the phone isn't that huge a distraction, as long as you don't look at the phone all the time and get too carried away talking. It can be a distraction, but so can someone else in the car, and someone else in the car is generally seen to be a GOOD thing because it stops you getting all caught up in trying to drive and screwing up.


Actually you're talking bullshit.

The reason that talking on a mobile phone is bad is because there's lots of breaks in a phone conversation (like 20 tiny breaks per second or something).

As such your brain has to work harder to make sense of what is being said.



THEY DID STUDIES AND EVERYTHING!!!*











*NewScientist is your friend (it was reported a couple of months ago i think)
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Unread 14 Mar 2006, 08:50   #41
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Re: [BBC]JJ's Idea of a good weekend?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JammyJim
When he pulled off he gave me a quick flash to say bye.
He held his cock up to the window while driving? Thats such a safety risk!
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Unread 14 Mar 2006, 09:21   #42
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Re: [BBC]JJ's Idea of a good weekend?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tactitus
I've found a couple of kids in the back seat arguing/fighting to be rather distracting.

"Daaad, Tony poked me."
"Did not."
"Did to."
"Did not!"
"Did to!"
...

After a while, you start wanting to have a car accident.
Yeah, kids in the back seat cause accidents... but to be fair, accidents in the back seat cause kids too

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dace
Actually you're talking bullshit.

The reason that talking on a mobile phone is bad is because there's lots of breaks in a phone conversation (like 20 tiny breaks per second or something).

As such your brain has to work harder to make sense of what is being said.



THEY DID STUDIES AND EVERYTHING!!!*
I don't care.
It was convincing bullshit. What do you mean breaks in the phone converstation? I suppose it sort of makes sense but I still don't care.

For the record, hands free sets should be far safer. I mean, trying to drive down the motorway even at 80 with my phone a hot drink and a couple of sandwiches I'm *far* more likely to crash without a hands free set to use my phone.
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