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Unread 10 Nov 2005, 00:21   #1
All Systems Go
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Slowly but surly children are sinking deeper into the mire...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4419796.stm

So now American kids will need to be taught about alternatives (such as God) to evolution.

http://www.answersingenesis.org/museum/walkthrough/

But it's not all bad, at least they can go on a fied trip here.

the cynic in me wants to see the whole thing as being a plot to make this 'museum' more money, but I fear it's a genuine religious thing.


But it's not just you crazy yanks that are going nutty. Good old tony Blair wants to introduce a curriculem for the under fives.

http://newsforums.bbc.co.uk/nol/thre...20051109231527

Good idea, let's see how babies cope when put under intense pressure nearly from birth. Let's see how many school shootings we get.
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Unread 10 Nov 2005, 00:32   #2
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Re: Slowly but surly children are sinking deeper into the mire...

I saw the Rev. Jerry Falwell and a scientist on Good Morning America (or some such) this morning. Rev. Fallwell was saying what a wonderful thing it was that Kansas was doing. The scientist was so stunned that he was almost incoherent.

Fallwell expressed his belief that science required more faith than did religion because you had to believe that something just happened to come from nothing and life just happened against all of the odds.

I found myself shouting at the television set, "Then where did god come from you ignorant f**k?"
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Unread 10 Nov 2005, 00:36   #3
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Re: Slowly but surly children are sinking deeper into the mire...

On the bright side, apparently :
Quote:
Eight school board members in Pennsylvania who supported an alternative to Darwin's theory of evolution lost their seats to evolution supporters.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4417560.stm
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Unread 10 Nov 2005, 09:53   #4
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Re: Slowly but surly children are sinking deeper into the mire...

I think the reason creationists fail to understand evolution is because they have yet to try it.
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Unread 10 Nov 2005, 10:24   #5
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Re: Slowly but surly children are sinking deeper into the mire...

george bush is a 40 year old child

he wants all the other children of the universe to be like him

this is a great day for education.





Quote:
Today's Rep Tosser 1 Nov 2005 12:41 You are shit
GJ using my idea from 2 months ago.
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Unread 10 Nov 2005, 10:31   #6
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Re: Slowly but surly children are sinking deeper into the mire...

George Bush now controlls the Kansas State Board of Education?

And here it was me thinking they are a group of misguided religious conservatives from the Southwest.

Apparently somone else is pulling their strings.

Logic Wept
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Unread 10 Nov 2005, 10:42   #7
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Re: Slowly but surly children are sinking deeper into the mire...

the Kansas State Board of Education has been bribed with oil money to vote this way by the 40 year old child george bush

"Steve Abrams" more like Steve A. Bush

we need to plant anti-terrorist seeds into the minds of our youth

we need more brave Christian warriors to spread justice and freedom to those in need

these are just some of the goals of the Bush Administration

Last edited by Duncan; 10 Nov 2005 at 11:09.
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Unread 10 Nov 2005, 10:43   #8
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Re: Slowly but surly children are sinking deeper into the mire...

hey guyz evolution must be true check dis out: www.bushorchimp.com
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Unread 10 Nov 2005, 10:46   #9
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Re: Slowly but surly children are sinking deeper into the mire...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nodrog
hey guyz evolution must be true check dis out: www.bushorchimp.com
gwhafhahahafhah bush looks like a monkey
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Unread 10 Nov 2005, 10:48   #10
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Re: Slowly but surly children are sinking deeper into the mire...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duncan
gwhafhahahafhah bush is a monkey
modified for truth
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Unread 10 Nov 2005, 11:03   #11
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Re: Slowly but surly children are sinking deeper into the mire...

^^^^^^^^^^^^
word

the current wave of creationist propaganda is to HIDE THIS TRUTH

if only someone put the 40 year old monkey child back into his cage blood for oil would stop and we could all take out our bongs and smoke in peace

this world is so corrupt
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Unread 10 Nov 2005, 12:53   #12
Marilyn Manson
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Question Re: Slowly but surly children are sinking deeper into the mire...

Why are people surprised that those who live outside of the reach of the civilised world do this kind of thing?
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Unread 10 Nov 2005, 19:09   #13
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Re: Slowly but surly children are sinking deeper into the mire...

[quote] Slowly but surly children are sinking deeper into the mire.../[quote]

Here I was thinking this was something about angry, gruff, drunk children...

"Hey, Surly only looks after one guy..Surly!"
"Sorry Surly"
"Shut up".
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Unread 10 Nov 2005, 19:28   #14
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Re: Slowly but surly children are sinking deeper into the mire...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marilyn Manson
Why are people surprised that those who live outside of the reach of the civilised world do this kind of thing?
Because we exist in a state of mild delerium which makes us believe that people want to teach things that are true to children.
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Unread 10 Nov 2005, 19:44   #15
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Re: Slowly but surly children are sinking deeper into the mire...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cooling
George Bush now controlls the Kansas State Board of Education?

And here it was me thinking they are a group of misguided religious conservatives from the Southwest.

Apparently somone else is pulling their strings.

Logic Wept

Kansas is in the Midwest.

Geography wept.
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Unread 10 Nov 2005, 20:51   #16
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Exclamation Re: Slowly but surly children are sinking deeper into the mire...

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri
Because we exist in a state of mild delerium which makes us believe that people want to teach things that are true to children.
I'm not sure there's any meaningful curriculum that everyone would agree is true. Someone would find fault with some aspect of every one, because of intelligent design or political correctness or whatever; and if you remove everything controversial then someone will object to that. It's only a question of who gets to decide which "truths" are taught to which children.
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Unread 10 Nov 2005, 22:07   #17
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Re: Slowly but surly children are sinking deeper into the mire...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duncan
george bush is a 40 year old child

he wants all the other children of the universe to be like him

this is a great day for education.







GJ using my idea from 2 months ago.
It is a good idea,

I see you are using Charles Babbage's idea from over 100 years ago
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Unread 10 Nov 2005, 22:26   #18
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Re: Slowly but surly children are sinking deeper into the mire...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tactitus
I'm not sure there's any meaningful curriculum that everyone would agree is true. Someone would find fault with some aspect of every one, because of intelligent design or political correctness or whatever; and if you remove everything controversial then someone will object to that. It's only a question of who gets to decide which "truths" are taught to which children.

my god, have we finally found the one subject upon which tacticus agrees with the american nutjobs rather than the rest of the world? (hehehe)
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Unread 10 Nov 2005, 22:33   #19
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Re: Slowly but surly children are sinking deeper into the mire...

Quote:
Originally Posted by All Systems Go
But it's not just you crazy yanks that are going nutty. Good old tony Blair wants to introduce a curriculem for the under fives.

http://newsforums.bbc.co.uk/nol/thre...20051109231527

Good idea, let's see how babies cope when put under intense pressure nearly from birth.
That is taken entirely out of context.
In most nurseries, children already learn maths and english.
They have there toes counted as they put thier socks on for instance, or count out how many fingers they have.
This SHOULD happen. It is NOT intense pressure, its learning through play.
All the government is proposing is that this is extended so that proof is shown it is happening in EVERY nursery.
Whilst I am not agreeing, or disagreeing, with the government until I see the proper proposals and how they intend to monitor this, I think it needs to be quite clear, children won't be sat down and taking lessons as such.

I think actually it is a very sad state of affairs that this is even needed, parents should ALL be doing this all the time. Talking to there children, counting, prounouncing words correctly. Truth is, a huge percentage of children can't even pronounce words properly, so there is no chance of them even getting the sounds right when they write at school.
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Unread 10 Nov 2005, 22:41   #20
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Re: Slowly but surly children are sinking deeper into the mire...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tactitus
I'm not sure there's any meaningful curriculum that everyone would agree is true. Someone would find fault with some aspect of every one, because of intelligent design or political correctness or whatever; and if you remove everything controversial then someone will object to that. It's only a question of who gets to decide which "truths" are taught to which children.
While there are certainly a lot of power issues involved in deciding which versions of reality receive the official stamp of approval, your post seems close to outright relativism. It's one thing to acknowledge that any curriculum will reflect the ideology of whichever people happen to have power and influence at the time its drawn up, but it's quite another to suggest that everything people disagree over is automatically on an equal footing. While the current popularity of evolutionary theory is largely a result of sociological factors involving our attitudes towards the claims of scientists, this doesnt imply that intelligent design is anything but arbitrary, no more deserving to be taught than the creation myths of the Sumerians or Greeks.
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Unread 11 Nov 2005, 02:01   #21
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Re: Slowly but surly children are sinking deeper into the mire...

The topic of "intelligent design" makes me incoherent with rage whenever it's mentioned.
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Unread 11 Nov 2005, 02:09   #22
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Re: Slowly but surly children are sinking deeper into the mire...

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Originally Posted by Dace
The topic of "intelligent design" makes me incoherent with rage whenever it's mentioned.
It is frustrating but not as bad as unintelligent design.

The strict creationist who adamantly spout that the earth is no more than 6-7 thousand years old because of the ages of the prophets in Genisis or some such. They brush aside any and all scientific evidence to the contrary. I was once told that dinosaurs and other fossil evidence was stuff that was put there by the devil to mislead the faithfull.

It is such stunning stupidity that you can't reply coherently.
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Unread 11 Nov 2005, 02:16   #23
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Re: Slowly but surly children are sinking deeper into the mire...

The only way to counter absurdity is to become even more absurd than the person you're arguing against.
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Unread 11 Nov 2005, 07:11   #24
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Exclamation Re: Slowly but surly children are sinking deeper into the mire...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nodrog
While there are certainly a lot of power issues involved in deciding which versions of reality receive the official stamp of approval, your post seems close to outright relativism. It's one thing to acknowledge that any curriculum will reflect the ideology of whichever people happen to have power and influence at the time its drawn up, but it's quite another to suggest that everything people disagree over is automatically on an equal footing. While the current popularity of evolutionary theory is largely a result of sociological factors involving our attitudes towards the claims of scientists, this doesnt imply that intelligent design is anything but arbitrary, no more deserving to be taught than the creation myths of the Sumerians or Greeks.
But who decides what is deserving to be taught? And as soon as you conclude there's only one right curriculum then how can you enforce that without some sort of state sanction? Whatever authority the state puts in charge of that definition can screw it up (e.g., the Kansas Board of Education) and what alternatives do you have if/when that happens?

I'd prefer to get the state out of the education business (or at least out of the curriculum business) and let people choose their own curricula from whatever the market can provide. Some people will choose to have their children learn creationism or intelligent design, but there are already some private religious schools which are undoubtably already teaching that, so that's nothing new. Everyone would have choices but more importantly, no one--not even the majority--would be in the position to impose their curriculum on anyone else.

I believe the state should be relatively neutral towards education, not because of a sense of relativism but because a state which has the power to kick intelligent design out of the schools also has the power to put it in (as the residents of Kansas have unfortunately discovered).
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Unread 11 Nov 2005, 09:27   #25
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Re: Slowly but surly children are sinking deeper into the mire...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tactitus
I'm not sure there's any meaningful curriculum that everyone would agree is true. Someone would find fault with some aspect of every one, because of intelligent design or political correctness or whatever; and if you remove everything controversial then someone will object to that. It's only a question of who gets to decide which "truths" are taught to which children.
Well, it's objective truth that ID isn't scientific, for a start. Lets start with removing things that are objectively false, shall we?
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Unread 11 Nov 2005, 14:54   #26
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Re: Slowly but surly children are sinking deeper into the mire...

Quote:
Originally Posted by All Systems Go
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4419796.stm

So now American kids will need to be taught about alternatives (such as God) to evolution.
FYI. Only a very small percentage of American kids go to school in Kansas.
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Unread 11 Nov 2005, 15:01   #27
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Question Re: Slowly but surly children are sinking deeper into the mire...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4427144.stm

Whoever said fundamentalists were uncaring, petty-minded, illiberal people?
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Unread 11 Nov 2005, 15:01   #28
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Re: Slowly but surly children are sinking deeper into the mire...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texan
FYI. Only a very small percentage of American kids go to school in Kansas.
FYI "american kids" means "kids who are american". Your interpretation is only valid as a reply to "the kids of america".
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Unread 11 Nov 2005, 15:32   #29
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Re: Slowly but surly children are sinking deeper into the mire...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marilyn Manson
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4427144.stm

Whoever said fundamentalists were uncaring, petty-minded, illiberal people?
Speaking as someone who regularly communes with the almighty I can most definitely guarantee that his wife has sex with a large semi-atheist islamic black man named Marvin who "does the garden".
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Unread 11 Nov 2005, 15:35   #30
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Exclamation Re: Slowly but surly children are sinking deeper into the mire...

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
Speaking as someone who regularly communes with the almighty I can most definitely guarantee that his wife has sex with a large semi-atheist islamic black man named Marvin who "does the garden".
Can you get his phone number for me please?
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Unread 11 Nov 2005, 15:36   #31
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Re: Slowly but surly children are sinking deeper into the mire...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marilyn Manson
Can you get his phone number for me please?
God or Marvin?












(Never thought I'd be asking that question again.)
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Unread 12 Nov 2005, 00:23   #32
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Re: Slowly but surly children are sinking deeper into the mire...

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri
FYI "american kids" means "kids who are american". Your interpretation is only valid as a reply to "the kids of america".
Most "kids who are american" don't go to school in kansas.
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Unread 12 Nov 2005, 00:46   #33
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Re: Slowly but surly children are sinking deeper into the mire...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texan
Most "kids who are american" don't go to school in kansas.
I don't feel that you have a point.
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Unread 12 Nov 2005, 08:42   #34
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Re: Slowly but surly children are sinking deeper into the mire...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texan
Most "kids who are american" don't go to school in kansas.
Some american kids are called "Billy".
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Unread 12 Nov 2005, 14:42   #35
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Re: Slowly but surly children are sinking deeper into the mire...

Vote for Creationism or God Will Kick Your Ass
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Unread 12 Nov 2005, 14:49   #36
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Re: Slowly but surly children are sinking deeper into the mire...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
Dante hates MM posts
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Unread 12 Nov 2005, 15:03   #37
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Re: Slowly but surly children are sinking deeper into the mire...

Quote:
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Dante hates MM posts


Sorry, I missed that first time round. I expect the geek, secular equivalent of a fatwah.
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Unread 12 Nov 2005, 16:21   #38
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Exclamation Re: Slowly but surly children are sinking deeper into the mire...

btw, someone should e-mail him and say 'You just rejected Science from your life. Please don't bother calling a doctor when you get prostate cancer.'

P.S Dante you may miss my posts but I still want to give you a blowjob.
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Unread 12 Nov 2005, 18:58   #39
J-Kama-Ka-C
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Re: Slowly but surly children are sinking deeper into the mire...

^ Surely it's not (demanded or) common practice for the medical students to run the hospitals either.

"The board ordered schools to read students a short statement in biology classes informing them that the theory of evolution is not established fact and that gaps exist in it."

Teach bad science for the win?
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Unread 12 Nov 2005, 19:11   #40
JonnyBGood
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Re: Slowly but surly children are sinking deeper into the mire...

I assume that, in the strict philosophical tradition they've adopted, they'll also be stating that your classmates might not exist so it could be okay to kill them and use their skin for curtains?
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