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Unread 7 Oct 2005, 18:57   #1
Weeks
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Would be being born blind and deaf be that bad?

During my work-place meanders, I found a leafleat asking for money for some charity. On the front of this leaflet was a pictures of a boy, who was blind and deaf, and it read: "Can you imagine how it must be like to be this boy?"

Obviously they assumed that his life was awful, and that he needed money, and I'm sure if I did donate he'd most likely benefit along with everyone else the charity caters for. But is his life that awful?

We imagine that living without sight or hearing would be awful, and rightly so. But what if you'd never had those senses in the first place? Surely you'd be missing nothing. He wouldn't be sitting at home thinking "Gee, I sure wish I could see" as he wouldn't know what seeing is. Surely he'd be reasonably happy?
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Unread 7 Oct 2005, 19:13   #2
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Re: Would be being born blind and deaf be that bad?

there is no input and no output. not sure if he would miss anything, but i would imagine that to be a crappy live. beeing blind or deaf would be bad enough, but without both for your whole live i dont even know if a person could think as normal people do.
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Unread 7 Oct 2005, 19:24   #3
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Re: Would be being born blind and deaf be that bad?

well, if i think of all the great things i have seen and heard, it must be awfull to never be able to experience those. Also communication seems really hard if you are blind and def, i mean, how do you even learn how to communicate. But indeed, the boy probabely doesnot know better. The thing i wonder about tho, is WHY exactly ppl should give money for kids with that handicap? In our western world i am pretty sure thre is enuff government support for parents with kids like that, if they cant take care of it themselfs totally even. I mean, i am lucky to have 2 healthy kids, but any idea what they costs fs? The parents of that boy at least dont have o buy him a tv, playstation and cd player, now do they.

Seriously tho, inless its in some african country where anybody with a handicap is like abandonned at birth, i dont see WHY handicapped ppl should enjoy charity in our society.
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Unread 7 Oct 2005, 19:34   #4
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Re: Would be being born blind and deaf be that bad?

Yeah I imagine it'd be like brail. But communicating to them what a bird or dinosaur, for example, is would be difficult. As for wu_trax' point, he probably doesn't think like normal people. But would that matter to him, would he be any less happy? Sigrid, they ask for money as the welfare state isn't perfect, and doesn't posses all the money in the world. You don't have to give money. You just give money if you've got extra cash and you want to help those less fortunate. It just so happens you've got no soul. Sorry.
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Unread 7 Oct 2005, 19:41   #5
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Re: Would be being born blind and deaf be that bad?

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Originally Posted by Weeks
Yeah I imagine it'd be like brail. But communicating to them what a bird or dinosaur, for example, is would be difficult. As for wu_trax' point, he probably doesn't think like normal people. But would that matter to him, would he be any less happy? Sigrid, they ask for money as the welfare state isn't perfect, and doesn't posses all the money in the world. You don't have to give money. You just give money if you've got extra cash and you want to help those less fortunate. It just so happens you've got no soul. Sorry.
Oi, thats a bit harsh, you have NO idea what i do for charity, i am just wondering why handicapped ppl need charity. Can you explain it to me maybe....because you say money is for the less fortunate. So what exactly would this boy need that other kids dont need~°
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Unread 7 Oct 2005, 19:48   #6
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Re: Would be being born blind and deaf be that bad?

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Originally Posted by Weeks
We imagine that living without sight or hearing would be awful, and rightly so. But what if you'd never had those senses in the first place? Surely you'd be missing nothing.
Would it be so bad to be dead?
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Unread 7 Oct 2005, 19:50   #7
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Re: Would be being born blind and deaf be that bad?

i'm sure he would be fine... but it must be awful for the people looking after him
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Unread 7 Oct 2005, 19:50   #8
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Re: Would be being born blind and deaf be that bad?

Someone may need to teach him special brail. As he has to feel everything he'd probably need special help in school, because, you know, not being able to see or hear may put him at a slight disadvantage. The next time I see a blind and deaf kid I'll ask. I'll say: A man called sigrid on the internet asks why you need more money than the rest of us. He does a lot of charity by the way, just so you know.
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Unread 7 Oct 2005, 19:51   #9
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Re: Would be being born blind and deaf be that bad?

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Would it be so bad to be dead?
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Unread 7 Oct 2005, 19:51   #10
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Re: Would be being born blind and deaf be that bad?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sigrid
The thing i wonder about tho, is WHY exactly ppl should give money for kids with that handicap? In our western world i am pretty sure thre is enuff government support for parents with kids like that, if they cant take care of it themselfs totally even. I mean, i am lucky to have 2 healthy kids, but any idea what they costs fs? The parents of that boy at least dont have o buy him a tv, playstation and cd player, now do they.
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Unread 7 Oct 2005, 19:51   #11
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Re: Would be being born blind and deaf be that bad?

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Originally Posted by Weeks
Someone may need to teach him special brail. As he has to feel everything he'd probably need special help in school, because, you know, not being able to see or hear may put him at a slight disadvantage. The next time I see a blind and deaf kid I'll ask. I'll say: A man called sigrid on the internet asks why you need more money than the rest of us. He does a lot of charity by the way, just so you know.

Make that ..a woman called Sigrid then please. Tho i doubt he will HEAR YOU:P

Non-handicapped kidshave to go to school too.
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Unread 7 Oct 2005, 19:56   #12
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Re: Would be being born blind and deaf be that bad?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Weeks
Someone may need to teach him special brail. As he has to feel everything he'd probably need special help in school, because, you know, not being able to see or hear may put him at a slight disadvantage. The next time I see a blind and deaf kid I'll ask. I'll say: A man called sigrid on the internet asks why you need more money than the rest of us. He does a lot of charity by the way, just so you know.
I doubt someone who is deaf/blind could learn a language (how would you go about linking objects to the signs?).
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Unread 7 Oct 2005, 19:57   #13
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Re: Would be being born blind and deaf be that bad?

To put it this way: I'd rather be born deaf and blind than become blind and deaf after being used to live with those senses. But it's ofc sad for them to not have these senses anyway.

Btw.. How can a person being born deaf AND blind know that he's actually missing something? There's no way of telling that person that there's something wrong.
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Unread 7 Oct 2005, 19:57   #14
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Re: Would be being born blind and deaf be that bad?

OK, I'm sorry. You just didn't seem that feminine to me. How was I to know?
OK, replace going to school with going to the toilet.
Yeah, I doubt he'll hear me too, that was my point. Sorry you didn't get it.
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Unread 7 Oct 2005, 19:58   #15
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Re: Would be being born blind and deaf be that bad?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nodrog
I doubt someone who is deaf/blind could learn a language (how would you go about linking objects to the signs?).
Give him a giraffe, then make him feel the word for giraffe. The next time you're referring to a giraffe, you'll make him feel the word for giraffe, then he'll know.
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Unread 7 Oct 2005, 20:04   #16
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Re: Would be being born blind and deaf be that bad?

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Not if you'd never been alive.
But who or what precisely would not enjoy being dead?
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Unread 7 Oct 2005, 20:05   #17
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Exclamation Re: Would be being born blind and deaf be that bad?

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I doubt someone who is deaf/blind could learn a language (how would you go about linking objects to the signs?).
You should see/read The Miracle Worker.
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Unread 7 Oct 2005, 20:06   #18
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Re: Would be being born blind and deaf be that bad?

Well, we generally form concepts by having similarities pointed out to us. But to someone blind/deaf, the similarities that are there for us just wouldnt be there for them (think about how you'd distinguish cats from dogs based on feel alone, or how you could convey that a kitten is a baby cat despite feeling completely different). If a blind/deaf community managed to evolve a language it would probably be based around tactile groupings and I suspect the concepts they had (if any) would be utterly distinct from those employed in languages used by the non-blind.
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Unread 7 Oct 2005, 20:06   #19
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Re: Would be being born blind and deaf be that bad?

We refer to enjoyment in reference to our senses. The dead don't have the senses we have. So we can't really talk of thier enjoyment.
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Unread 7 Oct 2005, 20:08   #20
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Re: Would be being born blind and deaf be that bad?

Look, weeks, I actually read your post, wanted to green-dot you and thought it over for a bit before i replied, because in daily life i indeed do my fair share of charity but always have refused to give anything to any handicapped fund. It has always been something i resented, paying charity for handicapped ppl. Maybe that is because where i live, in Holland, the handicapped ppl get money for going to a prostitute even from the government, so they can have their sexual pleasures also. I mean...I am deffo NOT paying for that, let the government do it. Obviously everything the government provides for handicapped ppl is payed fro taxes, wich i pay also, so eventually i DO pay for it a bit.

As i said, i indeed cannot imagine how it is to be deaf and blind, i said it must be awfull, but at the same time i thought what i always think when it comes to handicapped ppl, WHY do they need charity? What extra costs do they have that the government does NOT provide for?

Last week there was some fundraising in my village to send handicapped ppl on a holiday to spain or so. I mean, wtf, i dont get my holidays payed by charity do I? I just dont have this...I AM SO SORRY YOU ARE HANDICAPPED AND MISS A LEG GO SPEND A HOLIDAY IN SPAIN ON MY MONEY feeling...., there are loads of ppl who are perfectly ealthy and cannot afford that vacation either.

Thats basically the discussion i wanted to have with you I am not a heartless person who doesnot care, but i DO think before i drop money down the drain.
For instance, dont you think vaccinating kids around the world so they wont die ofstupid diseases like the measles is a bit more important then handicapped ppl in the western world?
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Unread 7 Oct 2005, 20:10   #21
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Re: Would be being born blind and deaf be that bad?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nodrog
Well, we generally form concepts by having similarities pointed out to us. But to someone blind/deaf, the similarities that are there for us just wouldnt be there for them (think about how you'd distinguish cats from dogs based on feel alone, or how you could convey that a kitten is a baby cat despite feeling completely different). If a blind/deaf community managed to evolve a language it would probably be based around tactile groupings and I suspect the concepts they had (if any) would be utterly distinct from those employed in languages used by the non-blind.
Yeah, in the same way different cultures developed different languages, and often place emphasis on different things. Deaf blind perople probably don't get irony. But I'm sure they're not crying into their porrige about that one.
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Unread 7 Oct 2005, 20:12   #22
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Re: Would be being born blind and deaf be that bad?

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Originally Posted by Weeks
We refer to enjoyment in reference to our senses. The dead don't have the senses we have. So we can't really talk of thier enjoyment.
So being dead wouldn't be that bad would it? And having more senses than zero and hence experiencing things would be better would it?
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Unread 7 Oct 2005, 20:16   #23
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Re: Would be being born blind and deaf be that bad?

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Look, weeks, I actually read your post, wanted to green-dot you
Awww, bless.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sigrid
Maybe that is because where i live, in Holland, the handicapped ppl get money for going to a prostitute even from the government, so they can have their sexual pleasures also. I mean...I am deffo NOT paying for that, let the government do it. Obviously everything the government provides for handicapped ppl is payed fro taxes, wich i pay also, so eventually i DO pay for it a bit.
Yeah cool. No-ones demanding you to give money to the handicapped. I'm not trying to guilt-trip you. Well, ok, I am. But just for kicks. But seriously, if I had 50 quid spare and a deaf blind person needed it to get some, I'd give him the money.


Quote:
Originally Posted by sigrid
As i said, i indeed cannot imagine how it is to be deaf and blind, i said it must be awfull, but at the same time i thought what i always think when it comes to handicapped ppl, WHY do they need charity? What extra costs do they have that the government does NOT provide for?
Handicapped people need a lot of caring for, and thus it costs quite a bit. Your government probably doesn't have enough money.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sigrid
For instance, dont you think vaccinating kids around the world so they wont die ofstupid diseases like the measles is a bit more important then handicapped ppl in the western world?
I think they're both important. And if I had enough money I would heal the world.
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Unread 7 Oct 2005, 20:16   #24
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Re: Would be being born blind and deaf be that bad?

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Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
So being dead wouldn't be that bad would it? And having more senses than zero and hence experiencing things would be better would it?
I don't know. I've not been dead in a long time.
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Unread 7 Oct 2005, 20:18   #25
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Re: Would be being born blind and deaf be that bad?

Don't prevaricate dude
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Unread 7 Oct 2005, 22:45   #26
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Re: Would be being born blind and deaf be that bad?

Well people often seem pretty unhappy even if they have all their senses, so I'm going to assume it's highly possible that people without them can be unhappy too.

Anyway, your point is flawed. I sometimes get annoyed that I feel pain, or that I lack telepathic/telekinetic abilities, or that I get older. The fact I've never experienced a state where that wasn't the case doesn't change anything.

Also, presumably the human brain is evolved for an "average" amount of stimuli. Lacking senses to supply this stimuli probably leads to a certain feeling of....emptiness or something.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sigrid
Last week there was some fundraising in my village to send handicapped ppl on a holiday to spain or so. I mean, wtf, i dont get my holidays payed by charity do I?
So if you don't get something you begrudge others that do?

Quote:
For instance, dont you think vaccinating kids around the world so they wont die ofstupid diseases like the measles is a bit more important then handicapped ppl in the western world?
The fact there are disabled people in the Western World is not the reason that some people in the third world are not receiving a full vaccination program. Taking everything down a "Well this money could be spent on kids in Africa!" level makes everything seem frivilous. Sure, we should be trying to do more to help people in all countries. But that doesn't actually mean we have to treat anyone else worse.
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Unread 7 Oct 2005, 23:23   #27
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Re: Would be being born blind and deaf be that bad?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
Well people often seem pretty unhappy even if they have all their senses, so I'm going to assume it's highly possible that people without them can be unhappy too.
A lot of people are unhappy because of the fact they're not 'succeeding' in life or their dad shouted at them when they were 7 giving them some kind of complex. But as he can't hear his dad shouting at him, or hear how he should be doing X, Y & Z in life, I reckon he'd be quite happy all and all. Unless his dad repeatedly beat him around the head that is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
Anyway, your point is flawed. I sometimes get annoyed that I feel pain, or that I lack telepathic/telekinetic abilities, or that I get older. The fact I've never experienced a state where that wasn't the case doesn't change anything.
You heard about the possibility of telekinesis, you haven't got it, you're pissed off. If you'd never heard about telekinesis I doubt your brain'd be saying:"Dante you ****, you haven't got telekinetic abilities - L O S E R."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
Also, presumably the human brain is evolved for an "average" amount of stimuli. Lacking senses to supply this stimuli probably leads to a certain feeling of....emptiness or something.
Possibly I suppose. Suppose there are untapped abilities the brain has now, but we're just not using them. I'm not sitting at home beating myself up about it. I think it'd be quite cool to have special powers or something, seeing in this boy's case, but I don't cry myself to sleep about it.
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Unread 7 Oct 2005, 23:43   #28
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Re: Would be being born blind and deaf be that bad?

Have none of you other than Tacitus heard of Helen Keller? Try Wikipedia.
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Unread 8 Oct 2005, 00:54   #29
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Re: Would be being born blind and deaf be that bad?

given the shit typed in this thread I envy the blind.
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Unread 8 Oct 2005, 01:17   #30
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Re: Would be being born blind and deaf be that bad?

I would like to be deaf every night from the hours of midnight through 4am so I could avoid listening to the loud morons coming out of the pubs.

I would like to be deaf whenever an old person answers 'Just two teas dear' to my question of 'Smoking or non smoking?' (And possibly blind so that when I go to punch them in the face I would miss).

I would like to be blind every time I walk through the streets of a major city (or sometimes, shamefully, my own small town) so I don't have to bother supressing the urge to shout 'GET SOME CLOTHES THAT ****ING FIT YOU' at random people.



Yes, being deaf and blind would certainly have its advantages.
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Unread 8 Oct 2005, 09:26   #31
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Re: Would be being born blind and deaf be that bad?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
Well people often seem pretty unhappy even if they have all their senses, so I'm going to assume it's highly possible that people without them can be unhappy too.

Anyway, your point is flawed. I sometimes get annoyed that I feel pain, or that I lack telepathic/telekinetic abilities, or that I get older. The fact I've never experienced a state where that wasn't the case doesn't change anything.

Also, presumably the human brain is evolved for an "average" amount of stimuli. Lacking senses to supply this stimuli probably leads to a certain feeling of....emptiness or something.


So if you don't get something you begrudge others that do?


The fact there are disabled people in the Western World is not the reason that some people in the third world are not receiving a full vaccination program. Taking everything down a "Well this money could be spent on kids in Africa!" level makes everything seem frivilous. Sure, we should be trying to do more to help people in all countries. But that doesn't actually mean we have to treat anyone else worse.
Of course you are right, everybody is, in their eyes anyways. And there is always worse and even worse and blablabla.
But as long as handicapped ppl demand to be treated like so called "normal" ppl (and what is normal anyways), and have their own olympics, wheel their own marathons and god knows what, i dont see how they suddenly have to be treatened as needy sorrow ppl when it comes to money. If you wanna be equal and be treated equal, then you dont get charity. Thats MY point.


you mention this:
But that doesn't actually mean we have to treat anyone else worse.

I cannot find the right words to say what i mean in english, but my whole point is.....they are NOT 'anyone else'.
You miss a leg, are deaf, well so be it, nottin special in OUR western world and you can get along in society JUST fine. Handicappd ppl dont wanna be looked at as...somebody else...., they are US also, and US dont get charity.
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Unread 8 Oct 2005, 09:46   #32
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Re: Would be being born blind and deaf be that bad?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Weeks
You heard about the possibility of telekinesis, you haven't got it, you're pissed off.
Not necessarily. Let's imagine the blind/deaf boy was walking around and hurt himself (stepped on something / bumped into it). Are you saying that it's beyhond imagination that he could think "Damn, I really wish there was someway I could prevent that from happening"?

Similarly, if I experience pain it's not like I have to read about some guy who didn't feel pain to wonder "I wish this wasn't happening".
Quote:
If you wanna be equal and be treated equal, then you dont get charity. Thats MY point.
I like to think I am equal, and I wish to be treated equally. I also think it's nice if people choose to help me out from time to time. You're entire point is that charity is an automatic "bad thing". I don't believe so. People helping each other out is one of the finest things human beings can do.
Quote:
I cannot find the right words to say what i mean in english, but my whole point is.....they are NOT 'anyone else'.
You miss a leg, are deaf, well so be it, nottin special in OUR western world and you can get along in society JUST fine. Handicappd ppl dont wanna be looked at as...somebody else...., they are US also, and US dont get charity.
You don't have to be "special" to receive aid, as I mention. One of my relatives wife died a few years ago, and his neighbours helped him out for a while, cooking him dinners a few times of his week, popping into check he was OK, etc. These were acts of charity, yet wasn't because he was "unequal" or unable to function - it was just a nice thing to do and about people looking out for each other.

I'm sorry if no-one has tried to help you your entire life, but that's no reason to be angry when other people get help from others.
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Unread 8 Oct 2005, 09:56   #33
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Re: Would be being born blind and deaf be that bad?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Weeks
We imagine that living without sight or hearing would be awful, and rightly so. But what if you'd never had those senses in the first place? Surely you'd be missing nothing. He wouldn't be sitting at home thinking "Gee, I sure wish I could see" as he wouldn't know what seeing is. Surely he'd be reasonably happy?
I'm sure he's having a ****ing blast.
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Unread 8 Oct 2005, 13:24   #34
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Re: Would be being born blind and deaf be that bad?

If he has never known sight or sound, he won't understand or be able to comprehend what these things are. We only would miss it because we've experienced it.

There was quite a bit of psychological research done into blindness. A few people had their sight restored after 20/30 years of blindness. Nearly all went into depression. Quite a few tried to kill themselves. They couldn't handle the new leash on life. They didn't understand what sight was, so they couldn't understand what to do with it.

So no, they wouldn't necessarily have such a bad life. You can't want something you don't understand.

If, however, they had sight and then lost it, that's a different story.



Take another sense for example. Smell. Some people have a very refined sense of smell. Now they probably think we're all really jealous and they're lucky. But we don't really care - we've never experienced this enhanced smell and so can't want it, because we don't understand it or why we'd need it.
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Unread 8 Oct 2005, 13:36   #35
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Re: Would be being born blind and deaf be that bad?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
given the shit typed in this thread I envy the blind.
best reply of the thread, it made me laugh.

Anyway on the subject. To be honest if you have never sensed seeing or hearing, you wont really be missing it. I feel sorry for them but to be honest there isnt anything I can really do. I will give my money to charities, but I prefer giving them to research charities like cancer research etc, as I always believe prevention is better than trying to solve it on the spot. Unfortunately people are dealt the cards for life and they have to play them, and where possible I help them out.
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Unread 8 Oct 2005, 15:15   #36
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Re: Would be being born blind and deaf be that bad?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
Not necessarily. Let's imagine the blind/deaf boy was walking around and hurt himself (stepped on something / bumped into it). Are you saying that it's beyhond imagination that he could think "Damn, I really wish there was someway I could prevent that from happening"?

Similarly, if I experience pain it's not like I have to read about some guy who didn't feel pain to wonder "I wish this wasn't happening".

I like to think I am equal, and I wish to be treated equally. I also think it's nice if people choose to help me out from time to time. You're entire point is that charity is an automatic "bad thing". I don't believe so. People helping each other out is one of the finest things human beings can do.

You don't have to be "special" to receive aid, as I mention. One of my relatives wife died a few years ago, and his neighbours helped him out for a while, cooking him dinners a few times of his week, popping into check he was OK, etc. These were acts of charity, yet wasn't because he was "unequal" or unable to function - it was just a nice thing to do and about people looking out for each other.

I'm sorry if no-one has tried to help you your entire life, but that's no reason to be angry when other people get help from others.

I think we may have the same opnion. Helping ou others who are in a shitty situation to me is not charity tho, its called helping:P This post was about a folder or leaflet, so obviously something organised bu some institute to raise money for a large group, using a severe case of the goup they try to get money for as tearjerker. That is quite different from helping out a neighbour.

Charity is not a bad thing at all and there are many ppl who desperately need it, but also those who in my eyes DONT, and handicapped ppl belong to the latter group imo. Charity should be used to stop poverty, illness and whatever that is NOT needed, like ppl dying of measles, or ppl starving to death because their fking government fights a civil war. Handicapped ppl will always be there, they are born in all layers of society and nottin can really prevent it, like getting kids who need glasses, have red hair or have a handicap that we qualify more as a handicap.
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Unread 8 Oct 2005, 18:05   #37
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Re: Would be being born blind and deaf be that bad?

What if you were never born without sight or hearing, would you know what it was like? Would you be able to post some sort of guess of what it would be like or would you just be babbling utter nonesense?
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Unread 8 Oct 2005, 18:27   #38
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Re: Would be being born blind and deaf be that bad?

having just sat through the England v Austria game, I feel I've gained an appreciation of the true advantages of being deaf and blind
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Unread 8 Oct 2005, 19:10   #39
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Re: Would be being born blind and deaf be that bad?

Quote:
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having just sat through the England v Austria game, I feel I've gained an appreciation of the true advantages of being deaf and blind
LOL

Likewise.
I am married to an Engishman who is now hoping Holland will win in 30 mins:P NOW THATS THE FIRST TIME EVER!
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Unread 8 Oct 2005, 19:21   #40
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Re: Would be being born blind and deaf be that bad?

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Originally Posted by sigrid
I think we may have the same opnion. Helping ou others who are in a shitty situation to me is not charity tho, its called helping:P This post was about a folder or leaflet, so obviously something organised bu some institute to raise money for a large group, using a severe case of the goup they try to get money for as tearjerker. That is quite different from helping out a neighbour.

Charity is not a bad thing at all and there are many ppl who desperately need it, but also those who in my eyes DONT, and handicapped ppl belong to the latter group imo. Charity should be used to stop poverty, illness and whatever that is NOT needed, like ppl dying of measles, or ppl starving to death because their fking government fights a civil war. Handicapped ppl will always be there, they are born in all layers of society and nottin can really prevent it, like getting kids who need glasses, have red hair or have a handicap that we qualify more as a handicap.
char·i·ty (chăr'ĭ-tē)
n.
, pl. -ties.
  1. Provision of help or relief to the poor; almsgiving.
  2. Something given to help the needy; alms.
  3. An institution, organization, or fund established to help the needy.
  4. Benevolence or generosity toward others or toward humanity.
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Unread 8 Oct 2005, 21:29   #41
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Re: Would be being born blind and deaf be that bad?

Wassn't there that bloke that was deaf and dumb and blind that ended up being really good at pinball ?

He's probably shite at Counter Strike though.
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Unread 8 Oct 2005, 22:08   #42
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Re: Would be being born blind and deaf be that bad?

I think he was just blind.
Being partially deaf myself, I would hate to lose the rest of my hearing, and the thought of losing my sight aswell is something that haunts me.
I did an exercise in cadets once, we were to be blindfolded and work our round an assualt course helping each other all the way. To put the blindfold on comfortably I had to take out my hearing aids, being unable to see or hear at the same time damn near freaked me out, I ended up sitting that particular exercise out.
Being born deaf and blind though.. As others have said you wouldnt know the difference, although after a while you may come to realise that you cant experience things as others around you can.
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Unread 9 Oct 2005, 16:36   #43
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Re: Would be being born blind and deaf be that bad?

Being born deaf and blind... The first thing that comes to my mind is that you wouldn't have to name it, because it'll never come when you call for it anyway. It'll probably make some freakish noises too, every now and then.
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Unread 9 Oct 2005, 18:12   #44
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Re: Would be being born blind and deaf be that bad?

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Originally Posted by horn
sorry i'm not quite sure what you an weeks are arguing about, i'm not sure exactly what part of his point you are reffering too.
Surely the pain he would experience from bumping into something is direct interaction. Something he could form a concept from. What if the child had no senses at all ?
If the child has no senses at all this is another debate - we are talking about a child who can't see or hear. They can still feel and presumably smell and taste too.

However, I was unclear in my earlier post. To summarise : Weeks appears to be saying life isn't so bad for this kid because he doesn't know any different.

This may well be true. The kid doesn't (probably) think "Damn, I wish I could see". To use Tom's wording - he does not "miss" seeing, because he's obviously never had it. However, it is quite possible that he experiences considerable difficulties performing basic tasks (e.g. using the toilet, eating, navigating around their home). It's possible that these difficulties lead to a certain amount of pain and discomfort. When reflecting (in a very basic sense) on their pain, they may somehow "wish" there was someway this pain could be eased.

To use an analogy : There is a tribe of people who are cut off from the outside world. They are very "primitive" by our standards - they possess no electrical goods or anything of this nature. Now, obviously they don't "miss" having mobile phones, or modern medicence, since they've never had these things. However, they may well reflect that it's pretty annoying they can't contact someone while that person is out on the hunt, or that 20% of their females die in childbirth or whatnot.
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Unread 9 Oct 2005, 23:05   #45
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Re: Would be being born blind and deaf be that bad?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
Not necessarily. Let's imagine the blind/deaf boy was walking around and hurt himself (stepped on something / bumped into it). Are you saying that it's beyhond imagination that he could think "Damn, I really wish there was someway I could prevent that from happening"?
Yeah the whole environmentally disabled thing fits in here. Living in a world made for the seeing and hearing must be pretty shit. If this kid is intelligent, he'd save up all the money the dutch government is giving him to have sex with whores and devise a dastardly plot to deafen and blind everyone. Problem solved!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
You're entire point is that charity is an automatic "bad thing". I don't believe so. People helping each other out is one of the finest things human beings can do.
Erm, are you mistaking me and whats-her-face up? That wasn't my point at all. My point was that kid was probably happy, except for the whole living in a world that's made for the seeing and hearing population.
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Unread 10 Oct 2005, 00:17   #46
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Re: Would be being born blind and deaf be that bad?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Weeks
Erm, are you mistaking me and whats-her-face up?
No, my response was to Sigrid (if you look at the text I'm replying to in that bit of my post, it's her post - not yours). I forgot to make this explicit though (by putting in the 'Originally Posted by...' bit).

Last edited by Dante Hicks; 10 Oct 2005 at 08:36.
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Unread 10 Oct 2005, 07:25   #47
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Re: Would be being born blind and deaf be that bad?

Oh, is sigrid female?

I seeee
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Unread 10 Oct 2005, 08:13   #48
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Re: Would be being born blind and deaf be that bad?

i was born deaf and blind, its alright tho - i communicate thru smell.
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Unread 10 Oct 2005, 11:20   #49
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Re: Would be being born blind and deaf be that bad?

Quote:
Originally Posted by horn
i'm sure they learn to communicate through touch. At least i think i've heard of it happening before.

So I put the question to you. Would it be OK to grope a fit blind birds tits and pussy to communicate that you think she is fit?

I think it is.
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