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Unread 12 Jul 2004, 23:38   #101
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Re: power abusing by jolt (bribings!?) :)

i want solid proof that jolt this time is willing to help the community.,
not going into another adventure or "work for Jolt for nothing and dont get the appropriate tools you need" or "undermine the PATeam"
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Unread 12 Jul 2004, 23:45   #102
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Re: power abusing by jolt (bribings!?) :)

My wish to Jolt;

Bring back the glory days of r3/4 + have a few open FREE rounds to get customers back.
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Unread 12 Jul 2004, 23:48   #103
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Re: power abusing by jolt (bribings!?) :)

my wish to jolt is build some integrated tools into PA to make the marketing campaign a little bit more effective. thanks.
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Unread 13 Jul 2004, 00:00   #104
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Re: power abusing by jolt (bribings!?) :)

my wish, close this thread please.
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Unread 13 Jul 2004, 00:06   #105
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Re: power abusing by jolt (bribings!?) :)

Quote:
Originally Posted by biffy
Mist - I was told to re-open the accounts. If you don't do what you are told to in your job then usually you don't keep that job for long.

In general I think this situation has been blown out of proportion a bit, as someone who has spent a lot of money on planetarion accounts it is important to get the decision correct and therefore I don't think it is unreasonable to take steps beyond those normally required when dealing with possible multi accounts. If a suitable explanation for the information we have isn't forthcoming then he will be closed like any other multi.

so what you are saying is that in this case "money talks" and rules are put aside accordingly. I seem to have been missinformed about the rules then probably, I understood that a multi would be closed while the account/s in question were checked, not "the account/s will be allowed to saty open while you multi as long as you have thrown enough money our way"

mebbe I am just old fashoined and dont belive a tiger can change his stripes, likewise I wont believe that BBW who has been closed in the last 2 rounds for multying will ever stop cheating, all you do by leaving his planets running is allow him to crush down people who otherwise would have stood a chance to attain top rankings ( and no I aint amongst those people, I will be happy at top 250-300 come tickend )

As it stands, well I dont think I will be paying out good money for my account, or those of my friends as I have been doing while MULTIES ARE ALLOWED TO BUY THEIR WAY IN WITHOUT FEAR OF CLOSURE This round ends its bibi PA from me unless this farce is brought to an end, you have closed BBW and re-opened, and closed and re-opened him now too much, he is a lieing cheating peice of scum, just ban hos ass for good and call it a day, others will pay for the people he paid for ( or are the rumours true that he paid for anice new shiney server ) but end of day, if multies thrive, then soon its just gonna be like 10 people running 5k accounts agin like in the old days when it was free to play
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Unread 13 Jul 2004, 00:06   #106
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Re: power abusing by jolt (bribings!?) :)

To clear something up BBW has not paid Jolt to look into this specific matter, or given us "televisions" to do so. I thought I should mention that, even though the suggestion itself is pretty laughable.
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Unread 13 Jul 2004, 00:12   #107
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Re: power abusing by jolt (bribings!?) :)

biffy - could you check with your legal assistant in jolt, if jolt breaching the EULA we have agreed upon without any prior notice is a case to dispute our accounts? because i know some people who want to dispute their account and get reimbursed for the money they have putted in this game this round.
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Unread 13 Jul 2004, 00:21   #108
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Re: power abusing by jolt (bribings!?) :)

i don't think people were suggesting that bbw has paid jolt to reopen his account, however your previous post suggested that he's getting special treatment because he's paid for a lot of accounts, ie he's getting special treatement for the money he's previously / is likely to pay in the future.

i take it when you say that he's not given you televisions, you mean at all rather than in relation to his account being closed?

-mist
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Unread 13 Jul 2004, 00:30   #109
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Re: power abusing by jolt (bribings!?) :)

btw Jolt... I'll contact you with my details so you can send my money back, tnx
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Unread 13 Jul 2004, 00:37   #110
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Re: power abusing by jolt (bribings!?) :)

Just close the account already before I covert op it
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Unread 13 Jul 2004, 00:38   #111
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Re: power abusing by jolt (bribings!?) :)

Just rename their ruler/planet name to "BBW of Cheaters Assosiation"
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Unread 13 Jul 2004, 00:56   #112
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Re: power abusing by jolt (bribings!?) :)

Quote:
i don't think people were suggesting that bbw has paid jolt to reopen his account, however your previous post suggested that he's getting special treatment because he's paid for a lot of accounts, ie he's getting special treatement for the money he's previously / is likely to pay in the future.
As I said he is a valued customer but like anyone else if he cannot explain the evidence we have then he will be closed for good.

It's also true that, following communications with him, it was felt that the alleged proof was not conclusive and that allegations were made that he was being victimised because of reptuations gained in previous rounds. I'm aware that BBW is a controversial character and had dealings with him myself in the last round when his daughter was closed, but in the light of his comments it was felt that it was only fair to examine the case further.

There has been no breach of the EULA agreement and cheats will continue to be dealt with in exactly the same way they always have.

Finally I should state that nobody was told they were going to lose their job over this, whether it is a paid job or a role in PA Team.
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Unread 13 Jul 2004, 01:05   #113
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Re: power abusing by jolt (bribings!?) :)

Quote:
Originally Posted by biffy
I'm aware that BBW is a controversial character and had dealings with him myself in the last round when his daughter was closed, but in the light of his comments it was felt that it was only fair to examine the case further.
His daughter isn't playing PA tho.. His daughter wasn't closed last round, he was..
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Unread 13 Jul 2004, 01:20   #114
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Re: power abusing by jolt (bribings!?) :)

I want proof he has a daughter

In the form of pics
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Unread 13 Jul 2004, 01:22   #115
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Re: power abusing by jolt (bribings!?) :)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richie987
My wish to Jolt;

Bring back the glory days of r3/4 + have a few open FREE rounds to get customers back.


What you want me back ;p

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Unread 13 Jul 2004, 01:25   #116
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Re: power abusing by jolt (bribings!?) :)

I'm just one person, but I feel let down and so does the PA community i bet. I think the decisions should be made by the people who have enforced rules and embedded them into someones skull for the past 11 rounds, not the owner who has probably never shown himself to the community.

Just my opinion.
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Unread 13 Jul 2004, 01:48   #117
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Re: power abusing by jolt (bribings!?) :)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quazi Starbucks
I want proof he has a daughter

In the form of pics
There's a picture of Ironic on Netgamers gallery.. but that's ofc not her.. just a made up one to make it look like Ironic is a real person
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Unread 13 Jul 2004, 02:19   #118
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Re: power abusing by jolt (bribings!?) :)

Quote:
Originally Posted by biffy
As I said he is a valued customer but like anyone else if he cannot explain the evidence we have then he will be closed for good.
yet again you imply he's more valuable than everyone else. why?

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Unread 13 Jul 2004, 02:22   #119
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Re: power abusing by jolt (bribings!?) :)

also, if the accused was, as you say, "victimised", will there be reprimands?

seems that having multi hunters running around picking on people would be a bad thing

-mist
ps, somehow, i have more faith in the hunters than jolt, pls don't take this as an insult boys (and girls?)
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Unread 13 Jul 2004, 02:30   #120
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Re: power abusing by jolt (bribings!?) :)

As someone who has bought a lot of accounts it does mean that more care has to be taken as any multiying has a potential impact on more accounts that would normally be the case (in this case at least 4 or 5, possibly more) but also larger amounts of compensation would be involved in any possible refund. If the case was proven to be false there is also a larger potential loss from the next round if that person decides they no longer wish to take part due to being accused of cheating.

This doesn't mean he has an excuse to cheat or that the burden of proof for cases involving just two accounts is low.
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Unread 13 Jul 2004, 02:31   #121
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Re: power abusing by jolt (bribings!?) :)

Quote:
also, if the accused was, as you say, "victimised", will there be reprimands?
There would be in any case where it was proven that a PA Team member or multi-hunter had acted in that manner.
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Unread 13 Jul 2004, 02:43   #122
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Re: power abusing by jolt (bribings!?) :)

i totally agree that more care has to be taken, as more accounts would be affected were an error made. however, you must agree that the opposing argument is that with more accounts concerned the rules breach is worse.

given that the hunters only close an account when they're sure the rules have been breached, and only open an account when they're convinced they made a mistake, i'm guessing that people were pretty convinced when the accounts were closed. if they're no longer convinced, then yes, the accounts should be reopened, however the case should also be closed - which it isn't.

so, while i agree there's more at stake here, financially, for jolt, there is also more at stake for planetarion itself. the problem lies in the fact that jolt is showing it cares more about the financial side than the game ethos side, which is upsetting a lot of people - plus showing jolt to be rather short sighted.

anyway, after all that waffle the point still stands. the hunters apparently still think he's guilty, yet he's open. your justification seems inadequate.

you do, however, imply that jolt will give refunds if someone is closed by mistake. is this true?

Quote:
Originally Posted by biffy
There would be in any case where it was proven that a PA Team member or multi-hunter had acted in that manner.
i asked for a comment on this specific case. if bbw is cleared, ie he was victimised, will heads roll?

-mist
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Unread 13 Jul 2004, 02:43   #123
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Re: power abusing by jolt (bribings!?) :)

FFS

jolt go away and make it free again !

GO PA
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Unread 13 Jul 2004, 02:47   #124
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Re: power abusing by jolt (bribings!?) :)

somehow, i suspect that random jolt bashing isn't going to help... tempting as it may be :P

-mist
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Unread 13 Jul 2004, 02:49   #125
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Re: power abusing by jolt (bribings!?) :)

Fs... Hilarious, dunno wether to laugh or cry :/
Someone tell me how this all ends cause I doubt i'll be following too actively anyway.
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Unread 13 Jul 2004, 03:02   #126
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Re: power abusing by jolt (bribings!?) :)

how much is it to be an important customer more valued than the rest of the universe needing more evidence to be closed ect. I find it highly wrong that more evidence is needed to close a player that bought 10 accounts to one thaght bought just one. Pa crew have been clear since the start of the round that any players playing from the same place should tell them and that accounts on same computer should avoid interacting don't know what kinda reason this player came up with but if it involves anything like close to accounts from same computer defending each other Jolt need there head examining for reopening.
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Unread 13 Jul 2004, 03:07   #127
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Re: power abusing by jolt (bribings!?) :)

You guys really have to decide now.. Now BBW's accounts is closed again.. Open/Closed/Open/Closed/Open/Closed.. Give bets through me: How will it end? Open or Closed?
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Unread 13 Jul 2004, 03:16   #128
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Re: power abusing by jolt (bribings!?) :)

I still dont see how a company can possibly be interested in lowering it's own marketing value by annoying so to speak every single person actively taking part in the community.

isnt jolt concerned that a lot more people than the person in question has accounts, will refuse to play the next round due to jolt's management flaws ?
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Unread 13 Jul 2004, 03:19   #129
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Re: power abusing by jolt (bribings!?) :)

Quote:
Originally Posted by I am Idler
I still dont see how a company can possibly be interested in lowering it's own marketing value by annoying so to speak every single person actively taking part in the community.
It worked for Fifth Season
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Unread 13 Jul 2004, 03:22   #130
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Re: power abusing by jolt (bribings!?) :)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quazi Starbucks
It worked for Fifth Season
uhm, nope.
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Unread 13 Jul 2004, 03:24   #131
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Re: power abusing by jolt (bribings!?) :)

hmmm well im a bit l8 here so ill start with the begining :P

1:SO ye if u buy 20 accounts then ur god to jolt?Comeone is jolt such stupid twats?Dont think so 20 accounts means what?200$?
2:Lets do this on the leagal RL way:if u get acused of somthing and found guilty u are locked away till ur trial where they deicde if u are or not guilty.If u want to be free while the investigation is being done u have to pay the caution(or what ever its called(money anyway))so this means this BBW payed somthing to have his accounts opened.Now this isnt real law or RL to send a lawyer but if he did then it turns out it is
3:bribing?now this sounds like romania.can it be that all countrys come to look like romania but no1 notices?maybe so but bribe is a normal thing here so im guessing that jolt has some romanians.nobody else is stupid enough.

Thx
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Unread 13 Jul 2004, 03:25   #132
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Re: power abusing by jolt (bribings!?) :)

Idler just buy it and give me and starbucks some admin orientated role.

You'll have a product that will piss all over anything similar out there.
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Unread 13 Jul 2004, 03:25   #133
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Re: power abusing by jolt (bribings!?) :)

Quote:
Originally Posted by I am Idler
uhm, nope.
But they reduced their market share by annoying everyone too I thought
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Unread 13 Jul 2004, 03:32   #134
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Re: power abusing by jolt (bribings!?) :)

speaking without a shred of evidence to back it up:

jolt's traditional product seems to be things liek counter strike servers, that kinda thing. as long as you have enough bandwidth + a decent box and can keep them running i don't think anyone really gives a crap what you do. ban someone, worst that happens is a clan goes elsewhere, that's like one server - who really cares

pa on the other hand is a lot more difficult to manage, you've got to worry about software updates, you've got to worry about the community, if you make a mistake everyone knows about it.

saddly, jolt appear to be applying the same management style to pa as i'd expect them to apply to cs, and it appears to be inappropriate. hence a lot of the problems

-mist
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Unread 13 Jul 2004, 03:33   #135
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Re: power abusing by jolt (bribings!?) :)

After futher investigation the accounts have been closed and will remain closed.
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Unread 13 Jul 2004, 03:35   #136
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Re: power abusing by jolt (bribings!?) :)

Quote:
Originally Posted by biffy
After futher investigation the accounts have been closed and will remain closed.
took you long enough
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Unread 13 Jul 2004, 03:41   #137
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Re: power abusing by jolt (bribings!?) :)

Quote:
Originally Posted by biffy
After futher investigation the accounts have been closed and will remain closed.
so, the question remains - was the money the reason they were reopened when they shouldn't have been?

i think the answer has to be yes...

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Unread 13 Jul 2004, 04:15   #138
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Re: power abusing by jolt (bribings!?) :)

The answer is no. There were grounds to suggest that his closing was due to circumstantial evidence and in this situation it was felt that re-opening the accounts was the best course of action. This is no longer the case, so the accounts are closed.
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Unread 13 Jul 2004, 04:56   #139
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Re: power abusing by jolt (bribings!?) :)

Smart move closing his accounts. but very late idd. The damage has been done. Lucky the community cares, because his 'Family" would have all been in the top 15. Biffy, i know you try. But people all have to look at it from an owners viewpoint. Think of it like this guys. You make a lot of money with a game already. You see this other game, and decide to buy into it. At hardly no extra cost, you can maitain this game. This new game you bought hardly brings in any real doe anymore. Now, you can simply stop this game, and use the server space for something else. or you can keep it, like an investment. You really don't care if it does well now or later. it doesn't look promising, but it still rakes in a few bucks here and there. So what if people complain. At any time you can ditch this game and go on with making your money. This is the mind frame that Jolt has. Thats why they don't market the game. Thats why you hardly ever see any banners on PA. THAT'S why there is a damn CS tournament being advertised via PA. Hehe, because they just don't care. As far as they care, we are just a bunch of complaining idiots. You heard biffy yourselves. Since there was some abnormal money involed, his accounts were kept open. They weren't investigating him, they were investigating, based on what the accused said, what they had to do to keep his money. There is nothing noone can do. It will always be about money. And the truth is, that in the end, we all would do the same thing. Maybe not as harsh or as openly stupid, but its human nature to look out for your own best interest. Lets face it.
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Unread 13 Jul 2004, 08:37   #140
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Re: power abusing by jolt (bribings!?) :)

Quote:
Originally Posted by biffy
The answer is no. There were grounds to suggest that his closing was due to circumstantial evidence and in this situation it was felt that re-opening the accounts was the best course of action. This is no longer the case, so the accounts are closed.
So far, the image that has been presented by everyone, yourself included, is that the 'Open him' camp was jolt and the 'Close him' camp was everyone else.

If you believe that there was grounds for reopening, then either you or PA Team was wrong. This is true independent of the end result.

There is no good way out of this for Jolt; either they're incompetent because they were just plain wrong wrt dealing with cheaters, or they're incompetent because they let incompetent people run the game.

Good work everybody
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Unread 13 Jul 2004, 09:31   #141
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Re: power abusing by jolt (bribings!?) :)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mist
so, the question remains - was the money the reason they were reopened when they shouldn't have been?

i think the answer has to be yes...

-mist
i normaly dont respond to this with "inside information"
but basicly this happened because of a miscommunication between jolt and PAteam
the money was never a issue

basicly this is what realy happend:

1) jolt got a official complaint about admin abuse by BBW, he claimed that we as PA team where hunting for him and are trying to proof that he cheated, he poined out that his kids where now getting closed because PAteam had a personal vendeta against him.

2) jolt asked for the info on the closure at that time and we profided them with a case summery(taken from our admintools and made into a smaller file that does not include all the evidence)

3) jolt read the summery and concluded that there COULD be a case of admin abuse and then took the side of BBW on this (as they should)

4)then jolt took the action of overruling the PAteam as they might be on a vendeta and reopening the account

5) last night i send the complete report and not the summery to the head of jolt and made a blow by blow analisis of what we could proof in a court of law (it was a long list :-) )
i also pointed out that i am new to the game and never had any dealings with BBW
so no vendeta on my end
the head of jolt agreed and closed the account again

i think jolt made a mistake in reopening a account that is under investigation (i do understand the resons behind it)
but PAteam is also not clean of fault
we shoud have made the evidence more clear for jolt so they would never have take this action

now how to continue

i think we should just drop this right now and all find a nice target and go roid happy
if you need to blame someone you can always roid 1:1 (but we do defend)
i would also like to point out that jolt saved PA from closing down completely, and should be comended for that

hope this made it more clear to you all
greetz
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Unread 13 Jul 2004, 09:46   #142
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Re: power abusing by jolt (bribings!?) :)

with all the flashy flash games arround and no real manual or newbie guide this game is doomed, new players won't play a tick.
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Unread 13 Jul 2004, 09:51   #143
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Re: power abusing by jolt (bribings!?) :)

btw sliekas and kaifux closed? non-shocker
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Unread 13 Jul 2004, 09:56   #144
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Re: power abusing by jolt (bribings!?) :)

with all the flashy flash games arround and no real manual or newbie guide this game is doomed, new players won't play a tick.


you should have a look at the mentor manual... thanks.
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Unread 13 Jul 2004, 11:01   #145
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Re: power abusing by jolt (bribings!?) :)

Doubt we're gonna see that ugly cockhead(BBW) online anymore
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Unread 13 Jul 2004, 13:13   #146
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Re: power abusing by jolt (bribings!?) :)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace
so what your saying Biffy is :

If the hunters close you just scream FIRE (meaning file a complaint) to Jolt and you will be open?

Don't think thats a good way of doing things.
And I think a fair explanation is in order here.

in thus case to jolt it looked liek admin abuse, which was a fair position in that they were only sent an evidence sumamry rather than the full lot we produce. This has been corrected and jolt's decision reversed.
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Unread 13 Jul 2004, 13:18   #147
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Re: power abusing by jolt (bribings!?) :)

can someone point out multi evidence that isn't circumstantial?

you were sharing the same ip - mate was at my place, family, etc etc
you attacked the same people - they're my mates, we're going to work together
you did something else bad - was hacked, wasn't me!

seems like pretty much everything can be excused really...

has jolt appologised for this yet? either to the general public or to the pateam, 'cus it seems both would be a good idea...

-mist
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Unread 13 Jul 2004, 14:50   #148
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Re: power abusing by jolt (bribings!?) :)

Quote:
Think of it like this guys. You make a lot of money with a game already. You see this other game, and decide to buy into it. At hardly no extra cost, you can maitain this game. This new game you bought hardly brings in any real doe anymore. Now, you can simply stop this game, and use the server space for something else. or you can keep it, like an investment. You really don't care if it does well now or later. it doesn't look promising, but it still rakes in a few bucks here and there. So what if people complain. At any time you can ditch this game and go on with making your money. This is the mind frame that Jolt has.
We want planetarion to be a success, which is why we employ someone (part-time) to develop it when it would have been quite easy to let a volunteer team develop it whilst hoping they would release something. Yes, the game is quite a way off from where we want it to be (both in pay accounts and total size) but this round has seen an improvement on r10.5 and with the efforts of PA Team and Spinner we hope that will continue with r12 when it is released.

Quote:
Thats why they don't market the game. Thats why you hardly ever see any banners on PA.
We have marketed some of the rounds, all be it very limited. As far as Jolt goes we run Planetarion banners on there constantly and have Planetarion in our 200,000 user mailing list as one of the top few items. I agree that more should be done in terms of advertising but doing that usually requires some sort of investment and, with us not being sure how popular this latest round would be, doing that probably wasn't considered. It might now be for r12.

Quote:
THAT'S why there is a damn CS tournament being advertised via PA. Hehe, because they just don't care.
The CS tournament was the idea of PA Team who wanted a community event like that. We are supporting it with servers.

Quote:
As far as they care, we are just a bunch of complaining idiots. You heard biffy yourselves. Since there was some abnormal money involed, his accounts were kept open. They weren't investigating him, they were investigating, based on what the accused said, what they had to do to keep his money.
We were investigating his accounts further, which is why they have now been closed.
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Unread 13 Jul 2004, 14:54   #149
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Re: power abusing by jolt (bribings!?) :)

Okay well, i got bored of readng everyones post... so urm.. i'm gonna unofficially close the post and declare jolt? (i don't know him/her) innocent! wahey


--------Closed--------

(anyone who posts i'll send a crack team of lawyers to come and sue you...)
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Unread 13 Jul 2004, 14:55   #150
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Re: power abusing by jolt (bribings!?) :)

Quote:
Originally Posted by biffy
We were investigating his accounts further, which is why they have now been closed.
If you realised he had accounts it shoudlnt have taken much investigation .
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