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Unread 2 Mar 2006, 02:24   #1
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3 ideas

The first 2 have probably been mentioned before and probably been shot down in flames but i will put them here anyway.

1. 4 fleets instead of 3, 2 for defence only and 2 for attack only.
I dont need to explain this im sure.

2. Pods come back with the fleet that stole them.
Perhaps a solution to the ticking/roiding problem? im sure there are 1000 coding reasons why this wont happen but its an idea...

3. PA lottery!
If you want to join the lottery each planet can pay 10k of each res to buy a ticket. The winning tickets are randomly selected at 24:00 each night with 1st tick getting 50% of the res, 2nd getting 30% and 3rd getting 20%.
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Unread 2 Mar 2006, 04:41   #2
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Re: 3 ideas

1) i support this idea
2) tbh i dont want to wait for my roids to return, so no, imo bad idea
3) a possibility, but open to abuse. would be nice tho

and how about

4) either remove XP and make Ziks lose a %'age ships when stealing, or add xp for defence
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Unread 2 Mar 2006, 08:29   #3
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Re: 3 ideas

1: I support the idea (This one is actually very good I think! Fixed attack and defence slots, maybe have it as in engineering that you can fix your fleets for a certain amount of time)
2: dont agree on this one.
3: Nah, lottery is bad mkay. I never win

4: xp for defence, xp for defence, xp for defence xp for defence!
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Unread 2 Mar 2006, 13:55   #4
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Re: 3 ideas

1 sound like fun - almost every other feature has changed since R1, but we've always had 3 fleets. I know some will say - it works don't mess with it - but again - almost every other feature, working or not has changed since R1. It would be nice to see the tactics change and how people cope, fixed attack/def slots would certainly bring in some tactical thinking.
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Unread 2 Mar 2006, 16:34   #5
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Re: 3 ideas

1) Nah.
2) Nah.
3) Nah.
4) Even though I suggested this somewhere too, I'd like the basic PA more <--- Nah..
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Unread 2 Mar 2006, 16:49   #6
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Re: 3 ideas

I support the idea of 1 or 2 pure defence fleets.
I also suggest changing the salvage calculation formula:
- If i lose 500 ships in a defence missions, i want the corresponding salvage for those ships lost, regardless of how many other defenders there were. The way it works now, people that don't lose ships get my salvage.
- Salvage for killed hostile fleets can be still calc'ed the way it is. (Or, if you want to make it fair, distribute salvage according to the ships that actually shoot at the attacker).
Last suggestion: GET RID of the trading messages in the news. Let the MoD see the last trades on a separate page.
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Unread 2 Mar 2006, 18:07   #7
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Re: 3 ideas

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gio2k
Last suggestion: GET RID of the trading messages in the news. Let the MoD see the last trades on a separate page.
Ive missed numerous happenings due to all the chatter.
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Unread 2 Mar 2006, 18:28   #8
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Re: 3 ideas

Idea #2 is good and actually makes sense.

Idea #1 just restricts options unnecessarily. What's the need for it?

Idea #3... why? It just feels like a gimmick to me.
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Unread 2 Mar 2006, 18:30   #9
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Re: 3 ideas

Quote:
Originally Posted by x-dANGEr
1) Nah.
2) Nah.
3) Nah.
4) Even though I suggested this somewhere too, I'd like the basic PA more <--- Nah..
1) Why not?
2) Why not?
3) Why not?
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Unread 2 Mar 2006, 18:43   #10
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Re: 3 ideas

1. No, because everyone should be able to decide how they'd want to use their fleets.

2. I agree to this, then the zik can't go out roiding at once again.

3. No, it's not a lottery game + it will give the winners an INSANE advantage. Let's say there's 1500 people buying 1 ticket each in the lottery @ 10k of each res. 30'000*1'500 = 45'000'000. 1st prize: 45'000'000*0,5 = 22'500'000. Imagine how much of an impact that would have on his planet.
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Unread 2 Mar 2006, 20:42   #11
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Re: 3 ideas

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nadar
3. No, it's not a lottery game + it will give the winners an INSANE advantage. Let's say there's 1500 people buying 1 ticket each in the lottery @ 10k of each res. 30'000*1'500 = 45'000'000. 1st prize: 45'000'000*0,5 = 22'500'000. Imagine how much of an impact that would have on his planet.
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Unread 2 Mar 2006, 21:10   #12
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Re: 3 ideas

How about whenever you get roided you lose a certain proportion of the xp the attacker gained?
I'm not sure if this has come up in all the 'xp for defence' threads, but I thought I'd throw the idea out there.
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Unread 2 Mar 2006, 21:52   #13
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Re: 3 ideas

Quote:
Originally Posted by idiotwind
How about whenever you get roided you lose a certain proportion of the xp the attacker gained?
I'm not sure if this has come up in all the 'xp for defence' threads, but I thought I'd throw the idea out there.
You would like people to lose even more score when attacked?
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Unread 3 Mar 2006, 00:48   #14
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Re: 3 ideas

Quote:
Originally Posted by -=Zyth=-
2. Pods come back with the fleet that stole them.
Perhaps a solution to the ticking/roiding problem? im sure there are 1000 coding reasons why this wont happen but its an idea...
This would significantly reduce the amount of resources coming into the universe each day. I have no idea how many roids are capped a night (and stats on this would be useless as currently they'd include roids capped by planet a off planet b at 1am and then capped by planet c off planet a at 2am) but I'd imagine it's a significant amount.
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Unread 3 Mar 2006, 01:30   #15
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Re: 3 ideas

Quote:
Originally Posted by -=Zyth=-
The first 2 have probably been mentioned before and probably been shot down in flames but i will put them here anyway.

1. 4 fleets instead of 3, 2 for defence only and 2 for attack only.
I dont need to explain this im sure.

2. Pods come back with the fleet that stole them.
Perhaps a solution to the ticking/roiding problem? im sure there are 1000 coding reasons why this wont happen but its an idea...

3. PA lottery!
If you want to join the lottery each planet can pay 10k of each res to buy a ticket. The winning tickets are randomly selected at 24:00 each night with 1st tick getting 50% of the res, 2nd getting 30% and 3rd getting 20%.
1) Won't happen - adds more unbalance to top / bottom players, and fleets only doing a set thing isn't a great idea.
2) JBG gave good reasons why this won't happen (even though I included it in the combat engine spec, I think)
3) would be fun tbh, within limits.
4) XP for def in various forms is in the new combat engine. Not sure if I can find simple code modifications to include it before - it's on my todo list.
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Unread 3 Mar 2006, 04:00   #16
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Re: 3 ideas

1. NO
2. NO
3. Yes, why not


4. Either KILL XP completely or Add XP for defence too! Maybe getting much XP for the stunning of the biggest enemy-value!
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Unread 3 Mar 2006, 04:08   #17
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Re: 3 ideas

appoco you are wrong about #1

it doesnt add imbalance in the same way that you haven't reduced fleets to 1 as 3 adds imbalance, same with 4, same with 5. if you want to eliminate imbalance then give nobody any fleet and indeed any ships to use. In fact just delete the game then there will be no imbalance. I'm sorry but imbalance is part of what PA is all about, who exploits it first and who does it best. making 2 fleets for def and 2 fleets for attack will just eliminate the 3 fleet xp whores. I've been an alliance HC for many rounds and trust me in this, 2 attack and 2 defence fleets won't add more imbalance to a game that is 100% swayed to players that the game mechanics can't dictate to (active players). This would not reduce imbalance nor increase it, but it would add an extra dimention.

Due to the fact that there would be definded defence fleets, you would have to reward them with xp by the amount of ships the actually kill less the roids that were lost. i.e. killres*100/(1-roidslost*1500)

I would like to see 1 fleet extra as gal def only as well, but then I think gals are a fundamental part of this game, otherwise lets not have them...
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Unread 3 Mar 2006, 04:41   #18
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Re: 3 ideas

4 fleets just widens the option of "3 fleeting" and having somewhere to run the rest of your ships. Having only 3 fleets forces you to choose wisely what you want to do/risk
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Unread 3 Mar 2006, 10:22   #19
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Re: 3 ideas

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaisto
1) Why not?
2) Why not?
3) Why not?
1) No, because I want to decide how I want to use my fleets. Maybe playing as a Zik defending with all 3 of them at the start of the round..

2) Because using this, roids will keep travelling in space more than being mined. It's simply that they take 9 tick to arrive, and an attack will land at you after 10 ticks as a retail, so what use is that? 1 tick mining? Espiecially with this round, that roids dont tend to stand more than a day, that'd simply waste their importance.

3)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nadar
No, it's not a lottery game + it will give the winners an INSANE advantage. Let's say there's 1500 people buying 1 ticket each in the lottery @ 10k of each res. 30'000*1'500 = 45'000'000. 1st prize: 45'000'000*0,5 = 22'500'000. Imagine how much of an impact that would have on his planet.
4) I think it does work now, so why changing it to something that might complicate the game a lot..
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Unread 3 Mar 2006, 11:48   #20
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Re: 3 ideas

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
This would significantly reduce the amount of resources coming into the universe each day. I have no idea how many roids are capped a night (and stats on this would be useless as currently they'd include roids capped by planet a off planet b at 1am and then capped by planet c off planet a at 2am) but I'd imagine it's a significant amount.
Could this potentially be used in a round that is afflicted with Stagnation? Stagnation becomes a problem when there is too much fleet (which comes from resources, obviously) defending a certain amount of roids - thus by reducing the number of resources in the game without reducing the amount of fleet *should* make it easier to steal roids.

Then, otoh i suppose, it makes it less viable to attack as the rewards for a successful resource are smaller, thus taking longer to pay off any losses capturing the roids, thus less landing and more stagnation.


Time for empirical evidence, methinks .
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Unread 3 Mar 2006, 11:51   #21
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Re: 3 ideas

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultimate Newbie
Could this potentially be used in a round that is afflicted with Stagnation? Stagnation becomes a problem when there is too much fleet (which comes from resources, obviously) defending a certain amount of roids - thus by reducing the number of resources in the game without reducing the amount of fleet *should* make it easier to steal roids.

Then, otoh i suppose, it makes it less viable to attack as the rewards for a successful resource are smaller, thus taking longer to pay off any losses capturing the roids, thus less landing and more stagnation.


Time for empirical evidence, methinks .
When I read it, the second point came into my mind. I can't see the first point occuring.
Also, I don't think we'd be popular for such a mid-round change.
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Unread 3 Mar 2006, 11:57   #22
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Re: 3 ideas

Quote:
Originally Posted by -=Zyth=-
1. 4 fleets instead of 3, 2 for defence only and 2 for attack only.
I would be in favour of having four fleets, 3 just like they are now and a fourth in-galaxy only fleet, to promote in-galaxy co-operation, harmony and participation. The other three fleets would still be able to attack, defend or fake attack as per the player's choice. Forcing people into attacking and defending isnt really a good move i think, as different races require different strategies - some are more offensively based and others are more defensive, and thus by limiting fleet options kinda screws those races a bit. Further, its takes rougly 2 fleets (plus home fleet) in defence to achieve a decisive victory against every attacking fleet that is launched, and thus by having a 1:1 ratio means that there simply wont be enough defence around in the universe, so again i'm no so sure if that's such a crash hot idea.

Quote:
3. PA lottery!
If you want to join the lottery each planet can pay 10k of each res to buy a ticket. The winning tickets are randomly selected at 24:00 each night with 1st tick getting 50% of the res, 2nd getting 30% and 3rd getting 20%.
I'm not sure if i would like a lotterly like this, as clearly someone will gain a large amount infrequently which has massive distortionary implications for that individual planet. What i would much prefer is a more "Casino" type idea where you are able to play Roulette (for example), and bet on a single number, thirds, halves, red/black, odds/evens and so on, using resources at your planet. Further, the maximum bet that you could place would depend on your planet's value (or score perhaps) so people dont clear themselves out by betting everything they own on 0 and loose etc.

I dont know if there would be any legal issues regarding minors "gambling" over the internet with "money", however regardless i think it is something to be explored as it would result in far more people doing stuff in-game between ticks, and actually capturing player's interest in the game itself (as opposed to forum/IRC activity).

Thoughts?
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Unread 3 Mar 2006, 12:47   #23
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Re: 3 ideas

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultimate Newbie
I would be in favour of having four fleets, 3 just like they are now and a fourth in-galaxy only fleet, to promote in-galaxy co-operation, harmony and participation. The other three fleets would still be able to attack, defend or fake attack as per the player's choice. Forcing people into attacking and defending isnt really a good move i think, as different races require different strategies - some are more offensively based and others are more defensive, and thus by limiting fleet options kinda screws those races a bit. Further, its takes rougly 2 fleets (plus home fleet) in defence to achieve a decisive victory against every attacking fleet that is launched, and thus by having a 1:1 ratio means that there simply wont be enough defence around in the universe, so again i'm no so sure if that's such a crash hot idea.



Thoughts?
An ingal defence fleets looks fun, add private galaxies to that and it will be even more fun
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Unread 3 Mar 2006, 13:23   #24
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Re: 3 ideas

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kargool
An ingal defence fleets looks fun, add private galaxies to that and it will be even more fun
I cant say that i would be a fan of private galaxies with a fourth in-gal defence slot only. I would imagine that would make top galaxies far too powerful. The main advantage of the fourth slot (other than running your fleet ) would presently be held by medium sized galaxies, with a few largely active players who would like to defend the newbie or less active players in their galaxies, but due to the high demand for their fleets in either attack or by their alliances in defence, have no slots free for helping when they would normally if there wasnt such need for slots.

Top galaxies, when they are attacked, get attacked properly, and thus the usefulness of the fourth slot is reduced in comparison (though it would obviously be used the most frequently to the greatest extent by those active top galaxies), i doubt it would make or break a proper raid on said top galaxy.

On a side note, i wonder if Zikonians (or other stealing races) should have a fourth in-gal slot due to stealing issues.
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Unread 3 Mar 2006, 14:50   #25
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Re: 3 ideas

2 for defence 2 for attacking only reduces choice for those 3 fleet attacking/3 fleet defending players. Granted there are some out there and a lot more this round due to XP whoring, but it doesn't stop you from deciding if you want to attack or defend. Plus aren't people complaining that there is too much attacking anyway?

How does it create more imbalance between top and bottom players? If the imbalance at the moment is the size of fleet (I can't think of another) then the only thing it could cause is more ships being put into one fleet slot for attacking or defence - but size of fleets isn't limited at the moment anyway (only a planets values stop bashing). If the number of fleets went up to 4 or 5, then a large player would be able to send out more fleets to attack more targets. But again a bottom player send out more fleets too so no imbalance?

I could understand if there was a genuine reason for not going this route if there was an abuse aspect (I can't see one), but all this change would do is change tactics - and PA's being doing that every round since R1.
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Unread 4 Mar 2006, 23:24   #26
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Re: 3 ideas

On point 1, no no no no and no. I am not against having x amount of fleet, although too many would just get stupid, as it doesnt affect the amount of ships you have. And everyone will have the same amount of fleets.

So i guess it would be attack one big player with 1 big fleet or 3 small players with 3 small fleets for example. Although would be more battle with more fleets and hence take a bit longer to tick, i dont think it would be a huge problem tho.

However, i am dead against making fleets dedicated to defence or attack. It is the players choice what they would like to do with their fleets. If they attack with all 3 and so cant set the ships left at base on prelaunch when they get attacked thats their risk. Or if they def with all three fleets they dont get roids and xp. I dont think forcing players into having to do something with their fleets is a good idea. And what about the solo players who aren't in an ally, you essentially reduce thier fleets to 2.

Also having a dedicated ingal def fleet??? What??? Definately not, simply for the reason of if you are in a crappy gal which you cant exile out of yet. Or maybe your a purely alliance player.

Just let people do what they want with their fleets. Or we will start to reduce or eliminate certain styles of playing pa. And what a bad galaxy it will be if everyone plays exactly the same way. Its the variety and uncertainty of what is gonna happen next which is what makes pa exciting and keeps people playing. So please dont dedicate fleets, its just silly
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Unread 5 Mar 2006, 12:48   #27
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Re: 3 ideas

The ability to not allow units in base fleet,to go in to combat...

I have :-
1) Two returning fleets (eta 8)
2) One attacker (eta 4, with no defence)
3) One spare fleet slot
4) 1.4k ghosts in production eta 3
5) An alliance mate who I could defend (I do like to defend, unlike some people).

Now I ordered the ghost because i wanted to drop my Value for XP. I dont mind losing the roids, but I would like the option to have my 1.4k ghosts hide behind my moon, when they come out of production, and so stay out of the incoming hostile. And still have my 3rd fleet defend.

p.s. XP for Defence!!!!
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Unread 6 Mar 2006, 21:41   #28
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Re: 3 ideas

Quote:
Originally Posted by -=Zyth=-
1. 4 fleets instead of 3, 2 for defence only and 2 for attack only.
I dont need to explain this im sure.
I have had all 3 fleets out defending more than once this round.
Also, this would put a stop to DLR's all out attacking strategy this round.
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Unread 7 Mar 2006, 11:50   #29
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Re: 3 ideas

3) I think the problem with this idea is that it is gambling, and when you get into this department, there is different rules in different countries about gambling and so forth. "its a game" I hear you say but it still counts as gambling and many games can't and wont do it due to the legality's( however you spell that) and different rules for each country.
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Unread 7 Mar 2006, 15:07   #30
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Re: 3 ideas

I for one don't see the problem with an fourth fleet, for defence purposes. Or like Mr. Lobster said, give the possibility to hide your basefleet, your planet should have bunkers doesn't it, would maybe add some usage to structurekillers too (you have destroyed 5 bunkers which contained 250 pegasus, for example).

So IMHO it's either gave the players a fourth defensive fleetslot, or add the hide basefleet.
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Unread 10 Mar 2006, 16:50   #31
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Re: 3 ideas

What about a variable amount of fleets?


ie you start with two fleets, but you have the option of researching this to increase the total fleet number?

So players could choose to go for speed increase, ship type increase or more fleets.
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Unread 10 Mar 2006, 20:45   #32
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Re: 3 ideas

nice ideas, i feel that 4 fleets only a maximum of 3 can attack or defend or fake attack at once. So people that like attacking can send a fake and 3 real attacks, those that like to defend could send out 2 or 3 defences and an attack fleet or two.

xp for defence
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Unread 13 Mar 2006, 05:59   #33
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Re: 3 ideas

1) make this option available on a tech tree
- 1 extra fleet slot for gal def
- upgrade it to universe def
- upgrade it to fake attack
- upgrade it to attack

that makes a 4th fleet slot available to people who find it useful, but they have to make a choice, and lose time on other research.

Mr Lobster, the idea of giving the home base ships the option the 'hide' or 'dock' was suggested and rejected... no sure what was the reason.
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Unread 13 Mar 2006, 12:59   #34
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Re: 3 ideas

I would imagine that the reason was because fleetcatching is an important aspect of the game, and is frequently the only way to kill the top planets who are the most successful. Further, removing fleet catching has implications for Zikonians who need it to steal stuff.

Fleet catching needs an open base for attack as it might only be 20 ships returning, but it still pins everything that the player might have at home. which could be what you are after anyway.
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Unread 16 Mar 2006, 15:23   #35
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Re: 3 ideas

ziks are a race that should be deleted anyways in my opinion. It's the only race that is incouraged to use fleetcatches and also the race most likely to bash players.

EDIT:

Let me give some reasoning behind this before I will get all negrepped by the zik lovers out there.

Fleetcatches are the best way for ziks to get them prized ships from other races, since there is no way they can hide there fleet now, so that's kinda obvious. It's up to alliance def and / or galaxy def to prevent them for landing the fleetcatch.

About the bashing, this is something I can only tell from personal experience, but I have never been attacked by a zik with lower value then me nor did I even noticed something similar on galmates of mine. On the contrary even, I often see ziks attacking someone who would have been to small to attack if they waited 4 ticks. I do release that with the capability of stealing ships you value rises faster then when you have to build them all by yourself, but nonetheless I do NOT like these criminals of the galaxy (stealing bastards).
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Unread 16 Mar 2006, 15:43   #36
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Re: 3 ideas

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clogg
ziks are a race that should be deleted anyways in my opinion.
I absolutly agree. This round we've seen a shocking increase in something only referred to as 'fun', and I find this reprehensible. Players describe themselves as 'enjoying' Planetarion, and this MUST be stamped out. Since the introduction of Zikonean 'stealing' in Round 13, non-virtual thievery has gone up 600% while Guinness consumption has gone down by 43%. Both JonnyBGood and I find this a deplorable state of affairs and call upon PA Team to remove the game of this menace.


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