Planetarion Forums

Cut Tooth · 13 Feb 2006, 10:14

Being one of the most active people in my galaxy it normally comes down to me to organise defence throughout the early hours. Now when I cannot personally provide def (fleets out etc) I have to contact my gal members alliance. Using the "msg to def chan" system, which is obviously quite a brilliant idea! but what really really hacks me off is when you report the incoming and get no reply.

My problem with this is that if you cannot help then tell me so I can go about organising something else. Why not just send me a quick pm over IRC saying something along the lines of "we can't offer any defence". I understand that you all wanna protect your indentities - this is fine, but have you ever heard of using a fake nick ?

Also i think you should also say if you CAN send defence. Afterall I am trying to help one of your alliance members too.

Thanks

Cut Tooth · 13 Feb 2006, 10:16

Btw I'm not saying all alliances do this, but I have noticed at least 3 well known ones that do. I wont name them.

isildurx · 13 Feb 2006, 10:35

Ive not gotten more than one reply the last three rounds reporting incs so its nothing new :P

jerome · 13 Feb 2006, 10:38

huh? what's this "defence" phenomenon you mentioned there once or twice?

Beermonster · 13 Feb 2006, 10:44

What i do is report .
And organise gal def as incs get to an eta when no poss ally def can make it

But i can understand ur frustration

Paisley · 13 Feb 2006, 11:07

Last round When I did def calls I often talked with My ally members gal m8's on def calls if they knew they were in subh. After all wyverns were sometimes a better option than vipers (as they were in short supply at times) to take out them Xan frig fleets or at the very least annoy the attacker into a sore loss free landing.

But there a few ally that reply to ya the [bot] is one example... From a DC point of view if ingal def is available report the gal line and on the next line state "100 dragons ingal def available" that could make the difference to the call being covered/dropped if additional def ships are needed

Personally I have stop reporting incs on gal m8s that dont def ingal.

Banned · 13 Feb 2006, 11:15

In my experience as an MO (for 1up a few rounds ago), I don't need the extra hassle of communicating with galmates. They can wait to see if stuff goes uncovered from alliance, plus they can prelaunch defense ingal as an added measure until alliance defense goes visible.

There's also the risk of someone reporting their own attack (that is, launching on a member, then posing as a galaxy member and reporting it). This might sound pointless, but there are 3 possible goals. One can try to confirm whether or not the person is a member. One might be short on JGPs. Or one could be attempting to draw out alliance defense with a fake*.

* Which is hard if the incoming goes unreported.

Cut Tooth · 13 Feb 2006, 11:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Banned

In my experience as an MO (for 1up a few rounds ago), I don't need the extra hassle of communicating with galmates. They can wait to see if stuff goes uncovered from alliance, plus they can prelaunch defense ingal as an added measure until alliance defense goes visible.

There's also the risk of someone reporting their own attack (that is, launching on a member, then posing as a galaxy member and reporting it). This might sound pointless, but there are 3 possible goals. One can try to confirm whether or not the person is a member. One might be short on JGPs. Or one could be attempting to draw out alliance defense with a fake*.

* Which is hard if the incoming goes unreported.

I see what you're saying but I don't agree with all of what you're saying. I don't want to be arsing around with my fleet on prelaunch IF the alliance IS going to defend, it's so easy to just pm saying 'defence will be sent' Afterall I might need my fleet to defend other galaxy/allliance members so imho it is just polite to respond. I am making the effort to ensure your alliance member has defence the least you can do is let me know whether or not you can defend?

With regards to the idea of spies, I guess that is possible - if the attacker knows the def chan! This could be resolved by each alliance member supplying their alliance with a list of nicks are likely to report defence.

Buddies: Good point about telling the alliance how much you can supply, as that will encourage a response

Banned · 13 Feb 2006, 11:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cut Tooth

I see what you're saying but I don't agree with all of what you're saying. I don't want to be arsing around with my fleet on prelaunch IF the alliance IS going to defend, it's so easy to just pm saying 'defence will be sent' Afterall I might need my fleet to defend other galaxy/allliance members so imho it is just polite to respond. I am making the effort to ensure your alliance member has defence the least you can do is let me know whether or not you can defend?

Often this won't be known until an hour or two later, at which point looking up who reported it will often yield 'no such nick'. And even then there's a new batch of incoming about to be reported. Given the choice between a 5 minute break to get a snack, take a piss or even read AD rather than look up people, I know what I'll choose.

Quote:

With regards to the idea of spies, I guess that is possible - if the attacker knows the def chan! This could be resolved by each alliance member supplying their alliance with a list of nicks are likely to report defence.

I think you misunderstand the purpose of a relay channel. Most alliances have relay bots idling in their public channel for 'trusted' members of the galaxy to report incoming to. Whereas relay channels are completely anonymous. Therefore, a relay coming via a channel is from someone who (ostensibly) doesn't know what alliance is organizing the defense, and it's therefore impossible to reply without breaking anonymity of the member. I'd be mighty angry if my alliance did that for me.

wakey · 13 Feb 2006, 11:45

The two main reasons for not getting a responce is

1) They dont know if they can cover it. During peak incoming times there is normally a substancial amount of incoming reports andteh BC's are rushed off their feet trying to juggle whats available. Its certainly not a case that a responce can be given the moment its reported.

2) Even when it is known if it can be covered at peak times once ones been covered thers another 5 to sort which takes priority over chasing up the person who reported the incoming (especially as it seems that 90% of reporters either change name after reporting or only logon to report it)

3)Security, most alliances use defence channels so as to help hide their members. If you have multiple defence channels spread amongst your members you require an alliance to put in real effort to find all your members. Now if you reply to an incoming report you often comprise this channel and help make obtaining your memberlist much easier

Synthetic_Sid · 13 Feb 2006, 11:48

It's possible to answer from a fake nick, yes - and I have done that myself in the pat on occasion. About the only time I'll do it however is if a galmate offers defence via the relay channel and wants to know if to send it.

Ultimately, from my perspective, if a 1up member has been so careless as to make a buddy-pack which has noone online - and hence relies on random gal-mates reporting via a def-channel - then I'm not particularly inclined to waste the time of myself or MOs jumping through hoops while other members who took more care pre-round can be covered much more easily with direct correspondence with people who know their identity.

Cut Tooth · 13 Feb 2006, 12:06

some very fair points, just so frustrating at times.

Benneh · 13 Feb 2006, 12:17

Def is highly overrated.

As are roids for that matter...

Right jer?

Kargool · 13 Feb 2006, 12:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by buddies

Personally I have stop reporting incs on gal m8s that dont def ingal.

We've also stopped reporting all subh incs to the galaxies where we are with subh, since Subh is hitting their own galaxies.

jerome · 13 Feb 2006, 12:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tweaker

Def is highly overrated.

As are roids for that matter...

Right jer?

spot on

kargool: aw, such bitterness! such spite! what a waste of another kid

Kargool · 13 Feb 2006, 13:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by jerome

kargool: aw, such bitterness! such spite! what a waste of another kid

Not bitter, just not caring about people who are willing to cannibalize their own galaxies for roids.

ComradeRob · 13 Feb 2006, 13:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kargool

Not bitter, just not caring about people who are willing to cannibalize their own galaxies for roids.

Let me guess, a nasty alliance is attacking you and you want an excuse to complain about them?

In case it escaped your attention, galaxies haven't been private since round 9. Therefore the concept of a galaxy 'belonging' to an alliance is absurd. Of course, there is a strategic decision to be made by the alliance about whether attacking galaxies which contain their members is a good idea, but they are under no moral obligation to avoid doing so.

Kargool · 13 Feb 2006, 13:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by ComradeRob

Let me guess, a nasty alliance is attacking you and you want an excuse to complain about them?

In case it escaped your attention, galaxies haven't been private since round 9. Therefore the concept of a galaxy 'belonging' to an alliance is absurd. Of course, there is a strategic decision to be made by the alliance about whether attacking galaxies which contain their members is a good idea, but they are under no moral obligation to avoid doing so.

Nope, my galaxy havent gotten hit in that particular way since we dont got a Subh in our galaxy.

TGV has a policy that we dont hit our own gals unless there are an alliance attack or planets being extremly hostile to our alliance.

Call it lack of eagerness to screw the galmates of our members, we prefer calling it being helpful to our members, and create a good enviroment for our members to work in.

Nadar · 13 Feb 2006, 13:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kargool

We've also stopped reporting all subh incs to the galaxies where we are with subh, since Subh is hitting their own galaxies.

What? Everyone is hitting their own galaxies now and then. You (kargool, not tgv) even did it a few rounds back when you were NoS. If the galaxy was hostile I saw no problem hitting them and avoiding the nossers while telling them not to defend. Against morale? No.

It's a strategy wargame, Kargool, not a kids puzzle.

Kargool · 13 Feb 2006, 13:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nadar

What? Everyone is hitting their own galaxies now and then. You (kargool, not tgv) even did it a few rounds back when you were NoS. If the galaxy was hostile I saw no problem hitting them and avoiding the nossers while telling them not to defend. Against morale? No.

It's a strategy wargame, Kargool, not a kids puzzle.

I strongly disagreed with it then and I strongly disagree with it now.

Nadar · 13 Feb 2006, 13:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kargool

I strongly disagreed with it then and I strongly disagree with it now.

So... let's say you're on a crusade against NewDawn(just an example). You got a TGV'er in 23:32 (example ahoy), which is heavily dominated with ND'ers which is some of ND's "best" planets. Would you really avoid hitting those targets? If it means you'd get beaten bigtime by ND by avoiding them, would you really avoid it just because there's a TGV planet in there? If so, having a war with TGV might be nice if your alliance shares many galaxies with them.

Kargool · 13 Feb 2006, 13:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nadar

So... let's say you're on a crusade against NewDawn(just an example). You got a TGV'er in 23:32 (example ahoy), which is heavily dominated with ND'ers which is some of ND's "best" planets. Would you really avoid hitting those targets? If it means you'd get beaten bigtime by ND by avoiding them, would you really avoid it just because there's a TGV planet in there? If so, having a war with TGV might be nice if your alliance shares many galaxies with them.

If you read my reply #18 I think it covers it.

furball · 13 Feb 2006, 13:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kargool

TGV has a policy that we dont hit our own gals unless there are an alliance attack or planets being extremly hostile to our alliance.

Call it lack of eagerness to screw the galmates of our members, we prefer calling it being helpful to our members, and create a good enviroment for our members to work in.

Ditto, and it's nice to see another alliance agreeing with us on this. We haven't hit a VGN galaxy more than a few times a round for quite some time now. We've hit them where there's major hostiles in-gal, but as Kargool said, why cannabalise your own galaxies for roids?

Nadar · 13 Feb 2006, 13:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kargool

If you read my reply #18 I think it covers it.

Good, I missed that one and thought you had gone over your mind for a bit

But, who says Subh aint hitting hostiles? And still, hitting "their own" galaxies isn't the worst thing you can do. Doubt it affects Subh badly either way seeing they're ranked 2nd atm.

Kargool · 13 Feb 2006, 14:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by I am Idler

14:27] -P- USER: Kargool ACCESS: 500 LU
[14:27] -P- CHANNEL: #Incestbuddies -- AUTOMODE: OP INVITE
[14:27] -P- LAST SEEN: 0 days, 02:22:17 ago.

(This account has been hijacked by a troll)

Oh dear... I forgot I put you up as a supporter on that channel

deleted Idler's post as requested - this one stands, as you reported it, then rose to the bait and took it further yourself. You have attracted the mods attention for the third occasion today - please take care in your posting - Lok

Benneh · 13 Feb 2006, 14:45

So that means that surely, that most t10 allys cant hit any of the t10 gals yeah?

Damn raid on 1:1 anyone?

Kargool · 13 Feb 2006, 14:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tweaker

So that means that surely, that most t10 allys cant hit any of the t10 gals yeah?

Damn raid on 1:1 anyone?

No, it means that alliances should start hitting alliances instead of "innocent" flak

Nadar · 13 Feb 2006, 14:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kargool

No, it means that alliances should start hitting alliances instead of "innocent" flak

The innocent flak that might defend against them ingal? There's two strategies when "waring" another alliance: Either you hit their main galaxies and cover it all, including "innocents", or you hit the whole alliance and give a shit about the galaxies. Seems Subh likes the first one, which I don't see any problem with. I like the second one best though, but that's mostly because of efficiency.

(I got no idea if Subh is in a war or anything btw)

Cut Tooth · 13 Feb 2006, 15:04

What Kargool is saying is that he doesnt target planets in galaxies with TGV members in if he doesnt need to. This makes sense because your alliance cannot be strong if your members are in weak galaxies.

Gate · 13 Feb 2006, 15:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nadar

The innocent flak that might defend against them ingal? There's two strategies when "waring" another alliance: Either you hit their main galaxies and cover it all, including "innocents", or you hit the whole alliance and give a shit about the galaxies. Seems Subh likes the first one, which I don't see any problem with. I like the second one best though, but that's mostly because of efficiency.

Isn't the first one shit and proven to be a complete failure? At best, this is a tactic early game to slow down the growth of another alliance by 'skimming the fat' from their top players, but it's unbelievable that any half decent alliance would lose just by having their gals hit.

With a very few exceptions. (eg at one point in r14, something like 18% of 1up's roids were in 6:10 and so a good bashing there would have been effective for a night)

Benneh · 13 Feb 2006, 15:15

yeah but that round 6:10 had so many of the univs roids

Desse · 13 Feb 2006, 15:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by ComradeRob

In case it escaped your attention, galaxies haven't been private since round 9.

Quick Correction.

There was private gals in r10.5

Desse · 13 Feb 2006, 15:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tweaker

yeah but that round 6:10 had so many of the univs roids

We had a lot of incoming early on. It sort of died out in the middle of the round.

Apparently peope got scared. At some point we had around 30-40% of 1ups roids, but hardly got incoming.

Veedeejem! · 13 Feb 2006, 15:24

It's never fun to see your own alliance crush your gal. It creates a negative atmosphere in the gal and that isn't good for anyone.

On topic: DC's are usually occupied with actually sorting def for their members and hardly have any time to waste on replying to the people reporting the incs. Only if the person reporting the inc offers ingal def should they get a reply imo.

Benneh · 13 Feb 2006, 16:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Desse

We had a lot of incoming early on. It sort of died out in the middle of the round.

Apparently peope got scared. At some point we had around 30-40% of 1ups roids, but hardly got incoming.

I know Desse.
I was in the gal, i was the planet who sat underneath yours...

Alki · 13 Feb 2006, 17:57

with the universe so small how can you not hit your own galaxies?

Benneh · 13 Feb 2006, 18:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alki

with the universe so small how can you not hit your own galaxies?

Obviously TGV manage it..

Stoom · 13 Feb 2006, 18:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tweaker

Obviously TGV manage it..

oh they're not the only ones

Benneh · 13 Feb 2006, 20:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tweaker

Obviously TGV manage it..

and for that i got.

Alliance HC's And DC's 13 Feb 2006 18:23 prick prick prick

this, i really couldnt give a shit about reputation as i never post much anyway but seriously, if you wanna call me a prick. PM me on irc or at least tag the rep. Thank you Kargool.

coffee- · 13 Feb 2006, 20:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kargool

We've also stopped reporting all subh incs to the galaxies where we are with subh, since Subh is hitting their own galaxies.

Well, I'm not sure where you get your intel Kargool, but I can assure you, that you are wrong. So how about you put your unsubstantiated claims back in your crazy little head. Go back to thy evil depths vile creature!

Kargool · 13 Feb 2006, 20:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by coffee-

Well, I'm not sure where you get your intel Kargool, but I can assure you, that you are wrong. So how about you put your unsubstantiated claims back in your crazy little head. Go back to thy evil depths vile creature!

I've talked to 2 other alliances who comfirms it. So my claim still stands.

Benneh · 13 Feb 2006, 20:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kargool

I've talked to 2 other alliances who comfirms it. So my claim still stands.

OMFG IS TGV BLOCKING WITH 2 OTHER ALLIES?

coffee- · 13 Feb 2006, 20:35

How would other allies know better about who Subh is attacking? Similiar to TGV we also have a no-Subh in galaxy rule when selecting targets. I insist that you persist with your anti-Subh propaganda, if you wish to continue your track record of being wrong.

The_Mad_Keg · 13 Feb 2006, 20:36

Fraid im fencesitting on this one, I know F-Crew dusnt hit galaxies with its members in, even solo attacks on gals with fc members are dissalowed.. however F-Crew isnt as hardcore as the other alliances involved in this thread and has so has less need to do such a thing and indeed theres gonna be less F-Crew members in the top gals than Subh.

I do understand why Subh is doing this and while its definately not the best thing to do sometimes the best course involves some sacrifices...

Against Subh its not just TGV that are aware of Subh hitting their own gals, one of F-Crews members was also in a gal hit by Subh that included a Subh member, the tacticts debatable but as u can see several people understand its use, blatantly denying it just makes things worse

coffee- · 13 Feb 2006, 20:38

Don't make me start with you too Keg.
/me prepares the probe.

Kargool · 13 Feb 2006, 20:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by coffee-

How would other allies know better about who Subh is attacking? Similiar to TGV we also have a no-Subh in galaxy rule when selecting targets. I insist that you persist with your anti-Subh propaganda, if you wish to continue your track record of being wrong.

And you would ofcourse admit it if you were doing that.

Ali · 13 Feb 2006, 20:41

obviously we would say we weren't doing it if we weren't also...

coffee- · 13 Feb 2006, 20:43

Just about every attack I setup I try to find every Subh I can to attack. The more the merrier! But Ali keeps telling me no. Alas my evil plans to bring Subh down from the inside are foiled.

Kargool · 13 Feb 2006, 20:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by coffee-

Just about every attack I setup I try to find every Subh I can to attack. The more the merrier! But Ali keeps telling me no. Alas my evil plans to bring Subh down from the inside are foiled.

I was going to comment this, but then I thought.. Why bother.. Instead I like to dedicate this post to Pet Shop Boys who seem to be wanting to make another album. Lets hope Pet Shop Boys will be doing yet another run through Europe with their excellent synth pop music.

coffee- · 13 Feb 2006, 20:57

I am glad. However, Pet Shop Boys are not my cup of tea. Or should I say, cup of coffee?