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View Poll Results: How should the free events be layed out?
Ditch the alliance comp, just the free round 56 56.00%
alliance comp then free round 10 10.00%
free round then alliance comp 7 7.00%
longer free round with alliance comp running alongside 26 26.00%
other 1 1.00%
Voters: 100. You may not vote on this poll

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Unread 4 Jan 2006, 19:16   #1
Appocomaster
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Free Round vs Alliance Competition

I know that a few people have felt the free round is a lot later than it should have been. Part of the reason for this is the alliance competition [2] will probably take up both servers if we're just running it within a week and so if we were going to keep to the week limit we weren't going to run them both at the same time. If we use the beta server (which probably won't be in use so much at the beginning of the round at least) we could probably have a more drawn out alliance competition.

We have a few options, so I thought we could have a poll

If we ditched the alliance competition, we'd start the round earlier (hopefully we'd have around 7 weeks I guess).
We can optionally keep it as some sort of league / cup system, with alliances going head to head in an otherwise closed universe. We don't have an official prize for the winner though.
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Unread 4 Jan 2006, 19:21   #2
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Re: Free Round vs Alliance Competition

longer free round! and more importantly EARLIER free round.
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Unread 4 Jan 2006, 19:24   #3
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Re: Free Round vs Alliance Competition

Alot earlier free round, start it within 2 weeks.
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Unread 4 Jan 2006, 19:27   #4
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Re: Free Round vs Alliance Competition

You say in your post that running them both together isnt an option, yet it is an option on the poll. You also dont specify whether ditching the comp would also cause a longer round.
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Unread 4 Jan 2006, 19:29   #5
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Re: Free Round vs Alliance Competition

Yes. I was trying to change the option on the poll but it didn't fit :/

basically, we'd origionally planned to use both servers for the alliance competition, so we could do it more quickly. If we only used the beta server (when not in use for testing or whatever for PAN) we could use that to run the alliance competition.
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Unread 4 Jan 2006, 19:33   #6
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Re: Free Round vs Alliance Competition

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Originally Posted by cypher
longer free round! and more importantly EARLIER free round.
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Unread 4 Jan 2006, 19:41   #7
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Re: Free Round vs Alliance Competition

The alliance comp sounds like a 2 week speedgame :eek: I don't think many alliances would play it seriously with the next round soon starting after

/me wants rd 16 sooner \o/
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Unread 4 Jan 2006, 19:42   #8
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Re: Free Round vs Alliance Competition

I think those freebies are meant to keep the players enterntained, as well as to attract new players... right? WRONG!!! Now, by making us wait so long for the actual round, you do both, loose players and waste the opportunity to get new ones. Is bad enough the round is for free and thus most decent players expect it to suck; you wanna make those players to completely forget about playing it???

Why has it always been the case we have to wait so long between rounds? FOR YEARS. To give us a break? In my humble opinion breaks are needed within the rounds not between the rounds (and perhaps during these "breaks" you could have these infamous "speed rounds"). But in any case, 6 to 8 weeks between rounds is a bit too much; actually iS ridiculous. I think it was a very BAD call.

If I were you I would have round after round, even if it means a few players choose to skip every other round (would be their decision), in the long run is better to both groups: players will get to play more, and you guys might even collect more moeny thus being able to do more shit, etc
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Unread 4 Jan 2006, 19:53   #9
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Re: Free Round vs Alliance Competition

ditch the ally comp, earlier and longer free round
and yes new stats
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Unread 4 Jan 2006, 20:02   #10
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Re: Free Round vs Alliance Competition

I don't really care about the alliance competition - it will be an artificial environment in wich we will not really know anything about wich alliance is better in the end, really, so it won't matter to me.

I rather want a longer free round, after all, wich way is better to judge how good an alliance is; A round, or a (speeder)competition?

And new stats, yes. We desperately need new stats.
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Unread 4 Jan 2006, 20:06   #11
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Re: Free Round vs Alliance Competition

Alliance reputation is established by rounds, not alliance special games.
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Unread 4 Jan 2006, 20:25   #12
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Re: Free Round vs Alliance Competition

screw the ally comp, longer free round.
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Unread 4 Jan 2006, 21:32   #13
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Re: Free Round vs Alliance Competition

Earlier free round and fixed stats.
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Unread 4 Jan 2006, 21:35   #14
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Re: Free Round vs Alliance Competition

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Originally Posted by isildurx
Earlier free round and fixed stats.
Naturally and perhaps if you understood how hard it is to make balanced stats, you'd have a little more sympathy.
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Unread 4 Jan 2006, 21:37   #15
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Re: Free Round vs Alliance Competition

Oh peeeeeliz.


he knows where to find me for constructive criticism(fixed stats \o/ )
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Unread 4 Jan 2006, 21:48   #16
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Re: Free Round vs Alliance Competition

Fixed stats get more of a /o\ reaction from me. Who can the community blame if the stats don't have any problems?


You'd never notice that the stats are fixed from the beginning of the round
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Unread 4 Jan 2006, 21:51   #17
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Re: Free Round vs Alliance Competition

I could tell before last round that Tzen would be too powerful and that Terrans would struggle
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Unread 4 Jan 2006, 22:04   #18
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Re: Free Round vs Alliance Competition

isn't the game in fact an alliance competition, as well as a personal measure of your skills
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Unread 4 Jan 2006, 22:06   #19
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Re: Free Round vs Alliance Competition

Free round all the way tbh
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Unread 4 Jan 2006, 22:12   #20
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Re: Free Round vs Alliance Competition

Can I ask why people are against the alliance comp if it runs alongside the free round?

It was a community suggestion that many people seemed to support, but now people seem to be against it, so i'm a little confused :/
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Unread 4 Jan 2006, 22:15   #21
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Re: Free Round vs Alliance Competition

I dont have a problem with it running same as the round tbh.
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Unread 4 Jan 2006, 22:44   #22
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Re: Free Round vs Alliance Competition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal
Can I ask why people are against the alliance comp if it runs alongside the free round?

It was a community suggestion that many people seemed to support, but now people seem to be against it, so i'm a little confused :/
i think the issue is less with the alliance comp but rather than the dating of the round, if the round isnt until 17th feb, i will be playing p l a n e t i a (23rd of jan), i ofc will play pa when it comes back but how many people are willing to play two games. If one game comes up first they will ened up playing that. If instead pa was brought forward to end of jan you would keep more pa players, a hell of a lot more (mid jan would be best imo but shrug)
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Unread 4 Jan 2006, 22:47   #23
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Re: Free Round vs Alliance Competition

Quote:
Originally Posted by pig
i think the issue is less with the alliance comp but rather than the dating of the round, if the round isnt until 17th feb, i will be playing p l a n e t i a (23rd of jan), i ofc will play pa when it comes back but how many people are willing to play two games. If one game comes up first they will ened up playing that. If instead pa was brought forward to end of jan you would keep more pa players, a hell of a lot more (mid jan would be best imo but shrug)
we can;t base our schedules around other games, that will only cuase us the same problem again and again with future rounds though - starting this round earlier might mean we then loose players to pia just before pan, there is no way of knowing other games long term schedules
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Unread 4 Jan 2006, 22:48   #24
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Re: Free Round vs Alliance Competition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal
we can;t base our schedules around other games, that will only cuase us the same problem again and again with future rounds though - starting this round earlier might mean we then loose players to pia just before pan, there is no way of knowing other games long term schedules
Ofcourse that is true, but dont focus on that as its merely just another argument. The main thing as Pig mentions is not that we dont want ally compo, its just that we want the round to start asap
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Unread 4 Jan 2006, 22:49   #25
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Re: Free Round vs Alliance Competition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal
Can I ask why people are against the alliance comp if it runs alongside the free round?

It was a community suggestion that many people seemed to support, but now people seem to be against it, so i'm a little confused :/
People don't have time to play the alliance competition if they're playing a real round as well.


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Unread 4 Jan 2006, 22:49   #26
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Re: Free Round vs Alliance Competition

problem is alliances say they can;t manage playing a round and an alliance comp at the same time
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Unread 4 Jan 2006, 22:50   #27
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Re: Free Round vs Alliance Competition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal
we can;t base our schedules around other games, that will only cuase us the same problem again and again with future rounds though - starting this round earlier might mean we then loose players to pia just before pan, there is no way of knowing other games long term schedules
nope im not saying base your schedule around the other games, merely saying that such a large gap leaves players with nothing to do, hence they turn to the other games. With a smaller gap players are less likely to go to your rivals and thus stay with you. So in the long run come pan you have a more dedicated playerbase rather than a group of players who come and go, depending on when the rounds are. If you can knock of close to 4-5 rounds a year, you keep people interested and the hungar alive imo, if you win you want to prove you can do it again (unless your exil) if you lose you want to gain revenge and prove you can win and so on...
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Unread 4 Jan 2006, 22:52   #28
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Re: Free Round vs Alliance Competition

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Originally Posted by pig
nope im not saying base your schedule around the other games, merely saying that such a large gap leaves players with nothing to do, hence they turn to the other games. With a smaller gap players are less likely to go to your rivals and thus stay with you. So in the long run come pan you have a more dedicated playerbase rather than a group of players who come and go, depending on when the rounds are. If you can knock of close to 4-5 rounds a year, you keep people interested and the hungar alive imo, if you win you want to prove you can do it again (unless your exil) if you lose you want to gain revenge and prove you can win and so on...
moving things earlier potenitally increases the gap between the free round and pan though, so again its only transferring the problem to a later date. I think its reasonable to assume that there will be delays of some sort with PAN simply becuase we have a one ma coding team and if he gets ill or whatever things get delayed. Our schedule does have slack time in it, but moving the free round earlier does remove some of our scheduling flexibility.
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Unread 4 Jan 2006, 23:00   #29
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Re: Free Round vs Alliance Competition

Well have two rounds inbetween then, or something.
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Unread 4 Jan 2006, 23:01   #30
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Re: Free Round vs Alliance Competition

I see the problem, well then perhaps the solution is a longer free round?
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Unread 4 Jan 2006, 23:04   #31
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Re: Free Round vs Alliance Competition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal
moving things earlier potenitally increases the gap between the free round and pan though, so again its only transferring the problem to a later date. I think its reasonable to assume that there will be delays of some sort with PAN simply becuase we have a one ma coding team and if he gets ill or whatever things get delayed. Our schedule does have slack time in it, but moving the free round earlier does remove some of our scheduling flexibility.
rearranging the alliance compo for after the free round will have no impact on the schedule other then the order they come in.
similarly, getting rid of the alliance compo for now, and extending the free round instead also has no effect as long as the extended time is as long as the alliance compo would have been in the first place.
yes the gap between a free round and pan itself would increase but with something in the middle to keep people entertained it shouldnt have too much of an effect and infact with an alliance compo before pan, it could spice up alliance politics. "revenge" for being beaten in the compo for instance

imo the sooner the free round starts ( or anything for that matter ) , the sooner pa can dig its claws into players and keep them playing pa, instead of other clones
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Unread 4 Jan 2006, 23:20   #32
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Re: Free Round vs Alliance Competition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal
Can I ask why people are against the alliance comp if it runs alongside the free round?

It was a community suggestion that many people seemed to support, but now people seem to be against it, so i'm a little confused :/
I think the main concern is to insure a proper free round, and 5 weeks just doesn't get it done....if they had that, the alliance comp running alongside may be ok, just not sure how many ppl would actually play it
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Unread 4 Jan 2006, 23:21   #33
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Re: Free Round vs Alliance Competition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal
we can;t base our schedules around other games, that will only cuase us the same problem again and again with future rounds though - starting this round earlier might mean we then loose players to pia just before pan, there is no way of knowing other games long term schedules

Planetarion is a better game, that being said, as long as they can play PA in a timely manner, they will
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Unread 4 Jan 2006, 23:24   #34
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Re: Free Round vs Alliance Competition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal
moving things earlier potenitally increases the gap between the free round and pan though, so again its only transferring the problem to a later date. I think its reasonable to assume that there will be delays of some sort with PAN simply becuase we have a one ma coding team and if he gets ill or whatever things get delayed. Our schedule does have slack time in it, but moving the free round earlier does remove some of our scheduling flexibility.

it doesn't mean a larger gap IF the free round goes longer. I think we all are comfortable with the possability that PAN admin set up will take time, we know that going in, the free round needs to be a proper one if you intend on the current player base staying interested, and bringing in new players
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Unread 4 Jan 2006, 23:32   #35
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Re: Free Round vs Alliance Competition

the problem is that we have to wait for 1.5 months still while you already have all the required stuff to start the round even next week tbh.

we wanna play pa. simple as that... if you have 2 servers use 1 for alliance comp if you must. but fact is alliances won't really join in. the alliance comp might be something besides regular pa, not instead of pa.

mostly everyone would prefer a start 3 weeks earlier for the 5 week round and make it an 8 week round so it can actually be played properly aswell. simple as that really.
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Unread 4 Jan 2006, 23:33   #36
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Re: Free Round vs Alliance Competition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal
moving things earlier potenitally increases the gap between the free round and pan though, so again its only transferring the problem to a later date. I think its reasonable to assume that there will be delays of some sort with PAN simply becuase we have a one ma coding team and if he gets ill or whatever things get delayed. Our schedule does have slack time in it, but moving the free round earlier does remove some of our scheduling flexibility.
You don't move the problem to a later date, even if you start sooner now and stick with the 5 weeks schedule, by then PA:N would have had a sufficient amount of coding done to let us play alpha/beta rounds. Most people are kept entertained with that, but running nothing like you are doing now is really a waste of time. So start the round sooner, decide during the round if its going to be 5, 6 or 7 weeks (depending how the (hopefully 50 players) alliances play it) and just do something else afterwards but DON'T do nothing!

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Unread 4 Jan 2006, 23:44   #37
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Re: Free Round vs Alliance Competition

I dont see what the problem is. I dont understand why PA team ever suggested all this stop gap? Why ruin a round and make it 5 weeks? If last round was 5 weeks any alliance of 4 could have won it easy peasy. They realistically need to be longer to get a decent winner, so why was it ever to be so short anyway?

Get rid of this alliance comp, or at the very least play it alongside. But i want to play PA, thats why im here, not for anything else. So let me please?

P.S. 8 week round > 5 week round
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Unread 5 Jan 2006, 00:33   #38
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Re: Free Round vs Alliance Competition

I dont get how starting the round two weeks earlier than planned leaves a larger gap between the free round and PAN. Surely if the round is extended by starting it earlier than planned, it will be finishing at the same time as was originally provided for.
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Unread 5 Jan 2006, 00:54   #39
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Re: Free Round vs Alliance Competition

it should be proxi....
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Unread 5 Jan 2006, 00:55   #40
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Re: Free Round vs Alliance Competition

While the alliance comp may be a total failure imho it is something which really is worth doing as it possible adds a bit more variety to community which in the long run isnt a bad thing.

However it has to happen BEFORE the free round otherwise we may as well say sod the round being free as you remove alot the benifts of having a free round because its the casual players whom a free round will initially attract that will drift away if PAN doesnt start almost immediatly after the free round.

Now this is where the problems arise, people wnat the free round to start sooner which leaves the options of
1) a longer free round
2) PAN start being pushed forward.

#2 is probally something we dont want, a rushed game will do more damage to the game than anything else but is a longer free round what we want also.

A 7 week round almost gives us a full round of play, certainly enough to change the perception of the free round. Its no longer some rather meaningless round that can be played at a lower intensity and allows more risks to be taken (especially when it comes to recruiting so more of these new players are given a chance to get hooked), now it has to be taken completly seriously as a poor showing could change how the alliance enters PAN (I know ND said somewhere on the forums they were going to play less intsense, if they do so now that could kill recruitemnt and retention going into PAN). And then if your going to have a proper round your going to have to put a proper break between the free round and PAN as teh 5 days of setting server up and 10 days of signups isnt going to cut it as a break after another intsense round, and a proper round means more of the causual players attracted by the free round will wander off.

Now like my call for breaks during a round all you normal members of alliances will start jumping up and down going "We dont need breaks so we can go into a round with very little break" and thats probally true you could. However why is this, its because of your HC and BC's whom put in alot of work to make that so, its these people whom burn out over a round and its them whom need a break. Without these people you all screwed and you would either have to put in 18 hour days or youd be in a situation where most of you would simply have to quit the game. Even in a normal round alliance see their command burn out and the alliance implode let alone two back to back intense rounds and we dont want to enter a new era only to have half the game imploding and having their rounds ruined

So imho we cant have any break longer than neccesary between these two rounds but we cant afford it to turn into your normal intense round either if we are to have a free round that gives new players a way in and doesnt cause major burn out in alliances so I feel we need another solution if the free round is to start sooner. What that solution is I dont know though
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Unread 5 Jan 2006, 07:51   #41
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Re: Free Round vs Alliance Competition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal
Can I ask why people are against the alliance comp if it runs alongside the free round?

It was a community suggestion that many people seemed to support, but now people seem to be against it, so i'm a little confused :/
TBH, I dont think I even saw the thread about alliance competition before it was mentioned in the what happens in 2006 message. If I had I would have been strongly opposed it.

Maybe put up an own forum with things the PA crew wants to do? There are so many suggestions and things going on on PD that it is hard to keep track on all the suggestions.

BTW, LONGER FREEROUND FTW!
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Unread 5 Jan 2006, 11:18   #42
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Re: Free Round vs Alliance Competition

Quote:
The Anon Neg Repper

well done. Another long winded post without any real point
To whoever neg repped me with that comment. YOUR READING FORUMS, on forums people are supposed to express and explain their opinions. I could shorten my posts and just go around posting "X FTW" or "It should be Y" but quite frankly anyone who does that is a waste of forum space as a view without jutification is WORTHLESS as theres no way to put it into context, its exactly why polls are a complete waste of time also as you have a load of people voting whom cba to explain why they voted and whom you cant even tell if there vote is valid (for example sometimes with votes people can get the wrong end of the stick and not fully understand why they are posting)

My post stated my views on 3 different aspects (The alliance comp viabily and usefullness, the placement of the rounds and the length of the free round) and explained why I had those views which is what a post should do. And ofc its going to get a little long when your dealing with 3 aspects of something, especially when its basically issues which havent been raised by anyone else but atleast i could be bothered to state my views unlike you who just neg reps people but is too ****ing lazy to state why you voted as you did.
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Unread 5 Jan 2006, 11:34   #43
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Re: Free Round vs Alliance Competition

To be quite frank, the reputation function is not working as I assume it is intended. I, and quite a few people I know, get a lot of blank reps, both positive and negative, and quite some that don't make sense even if they had comments. Perhaps if people were forced to sign their reps (as most people should have the guts to do anyway...) we wouldn't see quite so much rubbish. I don't get very pissed off when recieving a blank red rep, but long term, it is rather annyoing. Or when seeing "you're the biggest eXil asslicker on the face of earth." given to me on posts where I state that eXilition may not be all cheaters etc.

Pardon me for going off topic, but I am getting provoked by this, wich happens a lot lately. Even if I pretend not to care about reputation, obviously I do care about other people's opinion about how I post. I am not used to getting pepper for who I am, or what I do, and hence I would like know what I do wrong.

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And the likes of that, don't help me on my quest to satisfy every user of these forums. Perhaps if people were forced to leave their nicks, they would take the necessary time to explain what is wrong, because obviously, they must have their own very good reasons for what they do.
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Unread 5 Jan 2006, 11:50   #44
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Re: Free Round vs Alliance Competition

Quote:
Originally Posted by wakey
So imho we cant have any break longer than neccesary between these two rounds but we cant afford it to turn into your normal intense round either if we are to have a free round that gives new players a way in and doesnt cause major burn out in alliances so I feel we need another solution if the free round is to start sooner. What that solution is I dont know though
I dont know how the free round is planned exactly, but wouldnt a 10 day havoc appended at the regular round serve that purpose? Surely havoc is a time when there is hardly any organisation and everybody decides if or how they play mostly by themselves. Havoc would also be a time when the new people can use bigger fleets and have some success in attacks against organised people (who dont play havoc anymore or dont take it serious anymore). More resources given out during the havoc period and maybe some special event like "capture the holy roid" or something else.

And what would happen if after 5/6 weeks the round is declared beeing ended, the (ingame) alliances are disbanded, some resources are given to push the smaller planets a bit and maybe the universe shuffled to let the remaining 2 weeks run as a "dog eats dog" compo (ok by now this sounds like a havoc version . Also half hour ticks maybe.
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Unread 5 Jan 2006, 12:16   #45
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Re: Free Round vs Alliance Competition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramihyn
I dont know how the free round is planned exactly, but wouldnt a 10 day havoc appended at the regular round serve that purpose? Surely havoc is a time when there is hardly any organisation and everybody decides if or how they play mostly by themselves. Havoc would also be a time when the new people can use bigger fleets and have some success in attacks against organised people (who dont play havoc anymore or dont take it serious anymore). More resources given out during the havoc period and maybe some special event like "capture the holy roid" or something else.

And what would happen if after 5/6 weeks the round is declared beeing ended, the (ingame) alliances are disbanded, some resources are given to push the smaller planets a bit and maybe the universe shuffled to let the remaining 2 weeks run as a "dog eats dog" compo (ok by now this sounds like a havoc version . Also half hour ticks maybe.
Shaking havoc up and making it meaningful enough to keep the average player and casual players around and having fun while letting those whom have played a more intense round to sit out for two weeks ontop of the turnaround time between rounds sounds like something which might work. Maybe go as far as far as changing the setup so that either out of galaxy cant be sent at all or make it so that out of galaxy defence eta's are so high that they arent a viable option (as we dont want alliances to be able to operate in such a solo havoc setup). If the ticks are faster though the prelaunch system would need extended so you can still let people go away for a resonable length of time without leaving ships to be smashed and thus drive them away before PAN starts.

If Jolt could maybe find some prizes for this 'havoc' game as well it may help make this havoc time competative and fun
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Unread 5 Jan 2006, 12:35   #46
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Re: Free Round vs Alliance Competition

Hmm, over 50% for a longer freeround and the dropping of the alliance comp. /me waits for the PA crew to spin this into that the community wants a alliancecomp twice and 4 speedgames before a 2 weeks freeround and PaN start in may
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Unread 5 Jan 2006, 12:48   #47
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Re: Free Round vs Alliance Competition

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Originally Posted by Kargool
Hmm, over 50% for a longer freeround and the dropping of the alliance comp. /me waits for the PA crew to spin this into that the community wants a alliancecomp twice and 4 speedgames before a 2 weeks freeround and PaN start in may
For starters the first option doesnt indicate a longer free round so what your saying isnt totally true. Also as ive said about polls on this thread already you simply cant use them as any real basis of decisions as its on the whole very misleading. Theres no justification for why most people voted the way they did (45 replies to the thread, with many making multiple posts, nearly 70 voters), it doesnt indicate if they understand the various arguments for each option and also it doesnt account for people changing view as the discussions go on. The arguments that people make on the thread are worth much more than the actual poll results
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Unread 5 Jan 2006, 12:55   #48
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Re: Free Round vs Alliance Competition

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Originally Posted by wakey
For starters the first option doesnt indicate a longer free round so what your saying isnt totally true. Also as ive said about polls on this thread already you simply cant use them as any real basis of decisions as its on the whole very misleading. Theres no justification for why most people voted the way they did (45 replies to the thread, with many making multiple posts, nearly 70 voters), it doesnt indicate if they understand the various arguments for each option and also it doesnt account for people changing view as the discussions go on. The arguments that people make on the thread are worth much more than the actual poll results
We got a norweigan word for what u are saying here, its called Flisespikkeri. Since there isnt an option with a longer speedround without an alliance competition I am quite sure alot of thoose voters wants a longer freeround instead of an alliance competition.
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Unread 5 Jan 2006, 13:06   #49
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Re: Free Round vs Alliance Competition

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Originally Posted by Kargool
We got a norweigan word for what u are saying here, its called Flisespikkeri. Since there isnt an option with a longer speedround without an alliance competition I am quite sure alot of thoose voters wants a longer freeround instead of an alliance competition.
Your probably right but the option is a vague which causes a problem in that you cant actually tell who does and doesn't want a longer round. Its why when the options as vague as it is its even more vital that those voting justify their choice on the thread
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Unread 5 Jan 2006, 15:31   #50
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Re: Free Round vs Alliance Competition

I voted other,

As I just want a LONGER free round > 5 weeks

Thx
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