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Unread 21 Mar 2005, 19:53   #1
Doorsdown
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[Discuss] Research ability

This thread sparked an idea that i have been thinking about a diffrent idea to research queing. instead of being able to start 2 at once or what not. more like being able to stop and restart researches where you left off. when your researching something and stop for a bit you don't throw away all ur data.. you have it saved. so rather than restarting a research from scratch...let us stop and restart where we left off. it would not speed up research in any way as it still would take the same ammount of time. just the longer data is sitting there the bigger chance someone can "hack in and destroy it"


comments?
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Unread 21 Mar 2005, 20:08   #2
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Re: Research ability

this gives me ideas...
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Unread 21 Mar 2005, 20:57   #3
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Re: Research ability

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doorsdown
This thread sparked an idea that i have been thinking about a diffrent idea to research queing. instead of being able to start 2 at once or what not. more like being able to stop and restart researches where you left off. when your researching something and stop for a bit you don't throw away all ur data.. you have it saved. so rather than restarting a research from scratch...let us stop and restart where we left off. it would not speed up research in any way as it still would take the same ammount of time. just the longer data is sitting there the bigger chance someone can "hack in and destroy it"


comments?

good idea would give the oppertunity to stop a research neerly finished, and start a fresh one overnight to loose as few research ticks as possible, however to balance this if you were cov opped with the researchy one then you should have ALL ongoing researeches set back by the same amount of ticks, so effectively loosing 2x the number of research ticks you would normally.
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Unread 21 Mar 2005, 21:09   #4
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Re: Research ability

I like it.
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Unread 21 Mar 2005, 21:34   #5
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Re: Research ability

Quote:
Originally Posted by barney
good idea would give the oppertunity to stop a research neerly finished, and start a fresh one overnight to loose as few research ticks as possible, however to balance this if you were cov opped with the researchy one then you should have ALL ongoing researeches set back by the same amount of ticks, so effectively loosing 2x the number of research ticks you would normally.
the cov op thing i was thinking that it wouldn't no totaly set back your oppertaion back to start but the more agents that got though the more ticks that would be set back. so like if 5 agents go in it would be set back like 2 or 3 ticks where as if 30 got in like 10 to 15 ticks
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Unread 21 Mar 2005, 22:19   #6
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Re: Research ability

yeah expand it sounds good
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Unread 21 Mar 2005, 22:55   #7
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Re: Research ability

So to expand

i am researching X and it has 10 ticks left when i stop and start research Y which has a 48 tick period by default. From this i stop Y at tick 5 and start Z which has a 10 tick period. 4 ticks into that i get cov-oped by 25 agents. my X is set back to 13 and my Y is set back to 8.

Other than a little more db space and coding i don't see any other problems this idea. It would make PA's system more revolutinary and more attractive to both new and old players. this would make mistakes alittle bit more fixiable without lossing time already spent on researching something else
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Unread 22 Mar 2005, 00:35   #8
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Re: Research ability

Very intersting. I like the idea of adding a strategic value to how and when you build and research.
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Unread 22 Mar 2005, 08:10   #9
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Re: Research ability

ive always thought you should be able to co-op back researches entirely... well not entirely, i mean it would take scientists a shorter period of time to rediscover technologies. As a whole i think that Co/ops are stupid, they should be more devastational, but it should take longer for your security to slack off... as in if you get covert op'ed it should take like 48 ticks of progression for you to go back to the way your security was origionally, i mean as a terran i would wake up in the morning to see that id been covert opped 6 times in 8 hours, lost like 900k each resource, which is a big deal to me but not to the people who did the covert opping, considering that most of the time they were not the same person (based on those that failed)
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Unread 22 Mar 2005, 08:57   #10
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Re: Research ability

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceman
as in if you get covert op'ed it should take like 48 ticks of progression for you to go back to the way your security was origionally,
2 days!? That's a redicuously long peroid of time to wait to reattack somone - imagine if you had the same restrictions on attacking a planet with ships?

I agree in principle, however, that it should take longer for your security level to fall - in the region of 4 ticks (boosting up to 6 with max security settings). That way, people would only be able to covert op you with your normal security level at most twice whilst you are asleep - which is fair i reckon.
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Unread 22 Mar 2005, 10:17   #11
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Re: Research ability

na i mean like make co ops proportionately stronger too... like 10 times stronger with 10 times the length for security to fall
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Unread 22 Mar 2005, 10:55   #12
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Re: Research ability

I like this idea. As stopping a research by accident can happen and to re - start it where you left off would be a good thing indeed.
(I still dont know why you cant get a refund on construction accidental stoppping)
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Unread 22 Mar 2005, 12:11   #13
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Re: Research ability

yeah reckon aye, if you cancel a construction/ship order on the tick you order it you should get a full refund
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Unread 22 Mar 2005, 13:55   #14
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Re: Research ability

No, the thing is, with the idea of Doorsdown, you wont cancel your researches or constructions. You just put them on hold. So you wont lose any resources. The positive thing about this is when you have a plan worked out, and it turns out it wont work, you can put one of your researches or constructions on hold, and then put on another one. Like then, when someone killed your light factory, and you have none left, you dont have to cancel your Research Lab wich is ETA 4 from finishing. You can put it on hold, and start building a Light Factory so you can build ships again quicker.

One thing has got to be mentioned. If you make it possible to put everything you want on hold, its easy to build a Factory till ETA 1, then put it on hold. The advantage is that when you got attacked and co-opped and people took out your factories so they can launch a nice attack, you can build a new factory in 1 tick! So my advice would be, dont make it possible to have more then 1 research or construction on hold.

Next to that, what has already been mentioned, people can put on other researches or construction when they go to bed. It is usefull, but I think it shouldnt be possible for free. Maybe, when you put a research or a construction on hold, maybe count up 1-2 extra ticks to complete or something. So there will be a slight disadvantage. Wich gives following a tickplan step by step more advantage.

For cov-opping I think it should affect the on hold researches and constructions. Atm it is mainly 1-2 ticks that a research is set back. People having a research or construction on hold are doing it with a reason. Just set back every on hold research or construction back for 1 tick. The more on hold the stronger.
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Unread 22 Mar 2005, 20:55   #15
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Re: Research ability

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Originally Posted by CrazySpoon
One thing has got to be mentioned. If you make it possible to put everything you want on hold, its easy to build a Factory till ETA 1, then put it on hold. The advantage is that when you got attacked and co-opped and people took out your factories so they can launch a nice attack, you can build a new factory in 1 tick! So my advice would be, dont make it possible to have more then 1 research or construction on hold.
i think this only applies to contructions, you wouldnt get a research down to 1 tick to go incase you got attacked :P
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Unread 22 Mar 2005, 22:15   #16
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Re: Research ability

I think people are only going to use this feature for correcting accidental cancelling of research for there isn't any, in my opinion, strategic value to this. Not completing a research to start another one is very dismembering and will paralyze for an x amount of ticks, your tech-tree.

But the fact that we can finally un**** ourselves with this when clumsily cancelling researches definitely makes this a good idea.
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Unread 23 Mar 2005, 10:06   #17
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Re: Research ability

i like the research thing. i would definitly use it
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Unread 23 Mar 2005, 16:24   #18
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Re: Research ability

this is a cool idea but i see 1 major problem
1) Wouldn't this fill up the database stupidly quickly (haven't PATeam just made changes to reduce size of database eg rank history only last 500 ticks??)
kinda defies the point!!!?!?!?!
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Unread 24 Mar 2005, 01:15   #19
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Re: Research ability

Quote:
Originally Posted by Goafer LX
this is a cool idea but i see 1 major problem
1) Wouldn't this fill up the database stupidly quickly (haven't PATeam just made changes to reduce size of database eg rank history only last 500 ticks??)
kinda defies the point!!!?!?!?!

not really atm it has to store whats finished and whats yet to be started..it would just be a matter of decremeting one of those values so not really. the db would be about the same size. keeping te db small isn't always the best option either..its a nice one just if you are only worried about db size u can lose alot else where
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Unread 7 May 2005, 07:42   #20
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Re: [Discuss] Research ability

**bump**
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Unread 7 May 2005, 08:48   #21
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Re: [Discuss] Research ability

atm we store the status of the research in progress - for this we would need to store the status of all researches which would be a major overhaul.
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Unread 7 May 2005, 09:33   #22
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Re: [Discuss] Research ability

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal
atm we store the status of the research in progress - for this we would need to store the status of all researches which would be a major overhaul.
Well, i wouldnt have thought that you would need to store the progress of all researches that have been completed, nor any research that you are currently unable to research (ie one above the next step of research) - thus only the progress of the researches that you are able to do would need to be stored.

though granted, it wouldnt be anywhere near as small as it is now - but it wouldnt be as large as you have made it out to sound above.
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Unread 7 May 2005, 09:33   #23
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Re: [Discuss] Research ability

[x]gd idea
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Unread 7 May 2005, 16:37   #24
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Re: [Discuss] Research ability

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal
atm we store the status of the research in progress - for this we would need to store the status of all researches which would be a major overhaul.
as some of the limitation said, you could only have 1 or 2 on hold, so you would only need a few extra variables
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Unread 5 Nov 2005, 07:41   #25
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Re: [Discuss] Research ability

*bump*
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Unread 5 Nov 2005, 13:55   #26
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Re: [Discuss] Research ability

to bad the co op is the most crappy idea ever invented in a game that or sk's :/
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Unread 6 Nov 2005, 04:33   #27
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Re: [Discuss] Research ability

If this is applied to research, why not constructions, or even ship production, with the caviot on those two that if attacked by struct killers there is a chance in progress work can be destroyed.
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Unread 6 Nov 2005, 04:58   #28
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Re: [Discuss] Research ability

Because that is tending more and more towards Tactitus' "SimPlanet" concerns.

Though tbh, i tend to be in favour of queing (or at least, parallel research), there are considerable arguments against it which is obviously unfortunate.

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Unread 6 Nov 2005, 21:16   #29
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Re: [Discuss] Research ability

tbh what's the point in this? you make a choice to go for a certain research and that's it... if you wanna cancel it then cancel it but there's no need to be able to go on again later...
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Unread 7 Nov 2005, 02:28   #30
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Re: [Discuss] Research ability

What about making the research set back covop into research THEFT. They lose 1 tick on theirs and you gain 1 on yours. This is kinda unrelated but i just thought of it.

I feel that most covops arent much use (rsrch one, and blownig up like 5 fi ships one)
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Unread 7 Nov 2005, 15:44   #31
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Re: [Discuss] Research ability

I've looked at some of these things for ways to alter research for round 16. I can't really say more.
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Unread 7 Nov 2005, 17:47   #32
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Re: [Discuss] Research ability

Quote:
Originally Posted by Appocomaster
I've looked at some of these things for ways to alter research for round 16. I can't really say more.
Ok kal:/
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Unread 9 Nov 2005, 19:03   #33
Appocomaster
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Re: [Discuss] Research ability

Well I like some of the ideas on this thread but don't want to be toooo specific.
I prefer the parallel research idea to the queueing idea - having 2 researches and researching them in parallel instead of one after the other means you don't get the first one until slightly later, but you don't have to be around to start the second one. On the one hand, you don't have to be around. On the other hand, you get the first tech later than the second one.

As a covert ops aside, it needs a complete overhaul. Which will happen, I think.
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