Planetarion Forums - co-ord leaks

-Blue Moon- · 5 Jan 2006, 12:52

ok, i has an einstein type moment of slipping in the bath and coming up with a fantastic idea:

Not that I've ever done this *rubs neck innocently* but there are less-than-honest 'ways' of getting your enemies' co-ords.

Lets say we had a list of 50 suspected Alliance X planets - we could ask a spy or disloyal member in that alliance's tag to do some Attack missions on those co-ords. Any Attacks which refuse to go thro due to the 'cannot attack your own alliance' rule are obviously Alliance X, and the others suspected could then be deemed as Alliance X friendly, support, flack, etc, or something like that.

Understandably having a good arbiter is useful in compiling such a list - but anyone with enough time could just do the whole universe with a few planets in a few alliances. Plus, as you can imagine, arbiters these days are very advanced. I mean, I took a look at Ricka's one and literally had to wipe the drool from my face.

So anyway that's my introduction story/pitch and here's the suggestion:

Make planets that attack their own alliance more than 3(?) times a day be A-CLOSED, bear with me here. A-CLOSED would mean something like the planet has it's Attack functions disabled for 24hrs. If the planet in question has a good cause for attacking its own planets so much (could just be random dumb luck that all the nice targets are from their alliance) then they can appeal to their HC to have their attack functions re-enabled which would be a flip of a switch on the in-game tag. It also means that these offenders can be seen by alliance before it's too late, but adds a small element of tactics and timing for those allies who rely on such evil acts of co-ord grabbing espionage. And as I see it, 24hrs is a small punnishment but there are other ways we could make it harsher or less harsh - although someone without an excuse who is 'caught' by this feature is going to be exposed to their HC as either a spy or as I said, someone with dumb luck - and this may deter or at least slow the flow of memberlists.

Aaaaanyway, any thoughts would be mucho appreicated.
Reitterated : this is a want not a need. I'd like to see this feature considered for PAN.

tuxed0

Kjeldoran · 5 Jan 2006, 13:10

You can perfectly gather a correct coordlist of any alliance without the use of a single spy. I don't see how this feature would change this issue whatsoever.

furball · 5 Jan 2006, 16:11

Planets should never be able to attack inside their own alliance - especially when you consider the farming implications.

-Blue Moon- · 5 Jan 2006, 16:20

i don't think people understand what i'm getting at *rolls eyes*
are we all so niave?

Nobody is allowed to attack within alliance, because it gives you a 'cannot atack within alliance' notice. This means you know that it's from your alliance. If I got bored one day I could have tried to launch on all of the top100 and seen which ones were eXilition. If I was evil I could have given this information to 1up (for example) from tickstart. If I was a spy, planted in exilition for this single purpose I would have been able to do this without anybody knowing about it because HC are not informed when I attacked in my own alliance. SO in conclusion... You don't see where I'm going with this?

If we limited the amount of planets I could attack, once I got to #12 in the universe rankings (for example and my quota of 3 friendly launches per 24hr period was met - THEN my HC would be notified of what I'm doing, and have the power to help me by re-granting my powers, or kick me - because I'm a potential spy.

Understand now?
tuxed0

edit: p.s.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kjeldoran

You can perfectly gather a correct coordlist of any alliance without the use of a single spy. I don't see how this feature would change this issue whatsoever.

^ I know, as I said the arbiters these days are amazing, and inte gathering is a great skill - no doubt. This version of intel gathering requires no skill, and thus angers me. But you have to admit it's a possibility and something that may well have been exploited in the past/present/future.

furball · 5 Jan 2006, 16:36

Then I'd say there shouldn't be any quotas on attacking or defending.

Frankly spies are an alliance's problem, and it's up to the recruitors to make sure that they only recruit trustworthy people. If you can't do that, then the consequences are your problem.

cypher · 5 Jan 2006, 17:16

i personally think this is an excellent idea.

obviously you don't need spies, but surely for smaller alliances this could help alot so people don't get spies in there like that. if it's dodgy enough their OWN alliance hc can decide if they let him attack or not.

however there is 1 problem you can do the exact same with defending (except for in cluster)
This would be a nice addition for HC's to get some control over their members and against spies.

Dictator2 · 5 Jan 2006, 17:46

I thought u could see all your allies tagged with an A or R... or its only for officers??

Anyways, spying is perfectly fine in my book, did it for a long time and I really believe is an integral part of the game (either on IRC or ingame)

What way you go about getting the info thats another ball, requires skills, and if u know how to u will get it (i.e. coords, nicks, activity) no matter what. So implementing this feature will do little to stop inside spying, but it does impose yet another rule on players. However, in my personal experience, most spies are highly known by the upper leagues, and you operate at your own risk since u can always be harmed by any of the parties involved, since noone really likes you and everybody either ignores you, dislikes you or would destroy you as soon as they can.

And trust me, always someone knows who and what you are doing, just like in real espionage; and they can always give u up... and what are you gonna do about those??? if usually they are the HC themselves.

Appocomaster · 5 Jan 2006, 18:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dictator2

I thought u could see all your allies tagged with an A or R... or its only for officers??

depends on the settings made by alliance HC

how about the HC can set an option to be told if someone tries to attack intag more than X times every Y ticks? i.e. 3 times every 24 ticks

furball · 5 Jan 2006, 18:25

Again with the principle that if you let them in your alliance, you pay the consequences.

Dictator2 · 5 Jan 2006, 18:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by furball

Again with the principle that if you let them in your alliance, you pay the consequences.

Yer, fur, but, the best spy is the one that can fool the recruiters right? Thats the point. And it really happens at all levels, n00b and vet alliances...

I honestly believe that nothing should be done, spies often screw themselves either by accident or as a sacrifice for their "true" alliance. In any case, should be part of the game, if anything, provide better tools for them to do their job better :P

shit, I should shut up, people r gonna think im a 007.

furball · 5 Jan 2006, 19:11

I don't think the game should help or hinder spies. Spying's a 'way' of playing the game, along with AD and IRC. In-game integration wouldn't be my thing.

And you're right, the best spies do fool recruiters. Every alliance that has ever played the game has had spies in it at some point or another - whether they know it or not is a different matter.

E.S.B. · 6 Jan 2006, 08:41

I agree with this suggestion. Yeah, spying is a way to play the game, but doing it by launching (attacks or defences) at everyone is sheer bruteforce. And implementing this into the game wouldn't kill this tactic, spies would just have to be more selective. And as mentioned, there are other tactics, but this one doesn't require that much skills or intelligence.

Kargool · 6 Jan 2006, 10:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Appocomaster

depends on the settings made by alliance HC

how about the HC can set an option to be told if someone tries to attack intag more than X times every Y ticks? i.e. 3 times every 24 ticks

Someone put me into an insane asylum, yet again I agree with Appocomaster...

furball · 6 Jan 2006, 10:45

I don't think alliance HC should be told - and this comes from a HC. If people let in spies, then those spies should be allowed to do whatever damage they can. The position of HC brings with it an incrdible amount of responsibility, and we've seen in the past people who weren't up to the job.

If you can't spot even the most basic spies, you shouldn't be HC or have anything approaching recruitment duties.

If you let the best spies in unavoidably, then you have to try to spot them without a witch-hunt (which would be devastating for morale). That's another skill in itself. The brute-force option for spying may work, but would take hours to do the entire universe. Just as good is DC work, imo - you can gather co-ords pretty easily there.

Remy · 6 Jan 2006, 11:21

A simple table in the alliance page telling HCs how often a planet has tried to launch on a other member wud suffice.

If we at all need this....: get trustworthy members.....

lokken · 6 Jan 2006, 11:30

Sabotage and espionage (as long as it is within the law) are part and parcel of the game and alliances should be responsible for their own security in terms of who they recruit.

PA team should not intervene in this matter as this is certainly the alliance's lookout, not theirs.

Remy · 6 Jan 2006, 12:34

As you can understand from my post, i agree with Lokken