Planetarion Forums - Closing an account because of gal pic - too extreme?

bwtmc · 13 Nov 2005, 08:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by bwtmc

Seems a bit morally flawed when we're "quite happy" to allow the same people to have fleet names like "I ****ed your sister" every round for a warning, and for nothing to actually happen to them (no closing, no consequence, nothing at all!).

- When the Intent is there, the deliberate breaking of the rules and amusingly, something like that is actually aimed at a specfic player in our community (each fleet launch).

Any comments? I find the use of subjectivity in this thread absolutely comical.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil^

if it was a 1up member i dare say they wouldnt have thrown their rattle out of the pram about it, instead admitting they were in the wrong and apologising in a civilised manner

Phil^, you're better than that, you probably don't even know who two thirds of the members are. This isn't an alliance issue and it shouldn't even be contemplated.

Biffy it's a pretty black and white matter, that picture in no shape or form is "kiddie porn" and as much as I feel Wishmaster's handled the whole thing very badly, I wouldn't go out of my way to taint his name in public either. Your reasons for closing him should be the following:

Malicious intent to break rules he KNEW existed. Just by signing up you know there's no Age Requirement and hence some class of conduct should follow.

A demonstration of no real understanding of what he was doing, and yet he showcased an ability to deal harm to the community. (Isn't it funny, no ones come on the forum and complained about the actual picture, no one in this thread has even bothered to consider in more than a sentence the debatable extremity of the picture, does anyone actually care about the picture?)

- If you want to consider whether the planet should be closed, and if collectively we have difficulty defining whether they should be, perhaps we should look at it objectively, maybe even debate the severity of the picture and not Wishmaster's own personality and character.

CrazyConrad · 13 Nov 2005, 10:16

I'd like to the MH close the cheaters of this game as easily as this :/

Ace · 13 Nov 2005, 10:18

Yes the picture is offencive and yes Biffy is right doing something about it.
I remember a gal banner with a swastica in it.
It offended a lot of ppl and I asked PA team to do something about it.
As they didn't see it the same way as many others I was told to mail Biffy.

I have to say he handled that very good.

This game is played by many younger kids (even my son played 1 of the beta speed games)
and I feel these kind of pictures are NOT to be set as gal banners.
If the planet should be closed or not is not my call and makeing it a alliance A or B thing is b*llsh*t since it's him that put up the banner not his alliance.

my 2 cents

Dotatrix · 13 Nov 2005, 10:20

Who reads the EULA anyway ? Not me, but don't know about you all

Dotatrix · 13 Nov 2005, 10:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cooling

Whether it is Child Pornography, or Pornography simpliciter is irrelevent.

He should be closed for both. Children play this game, won't sombody think of the children?

I'm -89, and do I really give a shit ? No. Indeed.

robban1 · 13 Nov 2005, 10:43

well seems like biffy's personal definition of kiddiporn is somwhat stricter than the normal person a photoshoped pic can newer be classed as that not in any legal matter yes biffy you overreacted and dont got the balls to say that you actually did and and point at the eula that got a very fluid definition what ok or not .
to the normal forum trolls here i have seen the same guys beeing in your (biffy) posse and/or have a personel grunt against . and that the host taking down the pic after you talked to them with a treat its more a better safe than sorry actually more than they said you are right sorry m8 you overreacted like a little sissy soon its just the yes saying squad left .

so gogo PAN, was it a dubble of players you wanted sorry its more a half we talking about

and yes you guys are twats phil, hartless and and allthe other noobs who gains on this gg

Ace · 13 Nov 2005, 10:54

Who is gaining on it ?
I think noone gains on it.

robban1 · 13 Nov 2005, 11:07

ofc it is

Ace · 13 Nov 2005, 11:21

Well explain ? cos all I see is 1 guy getting closed over this.
Like i said before keep alliances out of this since they don't set the banner.

robban1 · 13 Nov 2005, 11:24

always look at the source of the stonethrowers and you see a pattern, well cept biffy who is in his own little world

Banned · 13 Nov 2005, 11:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil^

if it was a 1up member i dare say they wouldnt have thrown their rattle out of the pram about it, instead admitting they were in the wrong and apologising in a civilised manner

Seriously, Phil. The original poster is 1up.

And Forest *cough*was*cough* 1up.

This has nothing to do with prams and rattles. It's about the perceived arbitrary use of power by (in this case) biffy. People don't like it when their investment of time, effort and skill are ****ed over like this.

Ace · 13 Nov 2005, 11:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by robban1

always look at the source of the stonethrowers and you see a pattern, well cept biffy who is in his own little world

I think you are wrong.

1) no matter who reports it it should be looked at.
2) Biffy reprsents jolt, they own the game and can get legal actions taken against them for showing pics with trademarkt stuff or porn.

Can you plz keep in mind this is a game, and it's also played by younger ppl.
There is no place for stuff like that on gal banners.

Like I said before:
The banner should be deleted, if the planet should be closed is not my call but PA team and/or Biffy.

Best of all it's like this:
Jolt owns the game and sets the rules of it and can close planets because they don't follow the rules of the game.

jerome · 13 Nov 2005, 11:38

LOL.. this is just ludicrous. a warning atleast.. not full on closure by any means especially considering the old 30% roidloss and re-opening for CHEATING heh...

honestly.. this is stupidity.

&& phil^ - eh? don't generalise 1up members. there are many whiners in there too (inc. myself) and godknows i'd whine had i been closed for anything so petty.

bwtmc · 13 Nov 2005, 11:39

I miss Banned in-game

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to _ryzekiel_ again.

yes jerome` you certainly do whine a lot

robban1 · 13 Nov 2005, 11:44

well pol pot did stuff intirealy on his own too wasnt any more correct back then either so what? there is nothing in that pic that can lead to any legal matter, if the kids was remowed in just a mini porn pic= no fun. whats the punisment for that? a slap on th wrist. the pic is made to be a joke nothing more and the yungsters in pa erm you find better stuff with google so i miss the point

sorry jolt you acting is gay, hope the game dies

Nadar · 13 Nov 2005, 11:57

It's a bit extreme to close him for it. It's better to give him a warning and then close him if it happens again. It's not like anyone gets offended by seeing a "pr0n-pic" (a small one too) in a banner anyway. On the other hand, if it was racism or anything like that, then the planet should be closed. But this was just too harsh... even if it was Wishmaster

cypher · 13 Nov 2005, 12:47

the point quite alot of people forget is that he put it up after appoco just made a thread which he put on overview about this sort of thing NOT being allowed.
Now as soon as that was done wishmaster puts this picture on to try and get a response from pa team.... biffy gave him one. just a far better one then wishmaster expected.. that's wishmaster's fault, not biffy's.
now saying it's childporn may be a little harsh but i'm sure some lawyers could indeed debate it.

Wishmaster said himself he didn't read overview... yet a picture like that is put up right after the announcement and people expect nothing to be done about it? that's plain silly. the fact you don't read overview/forums/eula doesn't mean you are excused of it.

and jerome about the 30% rule... didn't pa team say that wouldn't happen again? heh

robban1 · 13 Nov 2005, 12:56

have nothing to do with his post this all about biffy acting as a stirred up sissy and yes you cant do any legal acts on that pic unless you are in somalia or some other strange place

kinda funny as jolt always act as they are on drugs then it comes to things cheers

Prawn · 13 Nov 2005, 13:05

If the picture isn't seriously morally questionable, why did somebody need to photoshop it? Surely it would have just been ok to photograph a bunch of 12 year olds watching porno... no.

Lets look at it this way. If I took a 12 year old boy, sat him down to watch some hardcore XXX action, then photographed it and took the film down to boots to get developed, I'm pretty sure I'd be receiving a visit from the police rather shortly. The fact that is a photoshop fabricated *depiction* of such an act detracts in no way from the fact that it is in extremely bad taste.

Quite aside from that, if I had been playing PA at university and that pic was observed by somebody in authority, I find it rather likely that at the very least my computing account would have been closed. Same applies if someone had seen it at work; simply having that on your screen would be likely to have you in serious trouble. How on earth anybody can argue that somebody who potentially may have placed numerous players jobs on the line has been treated unfairly in this circumstance is beyond me.

Smudge · 13 Nov 2005, 13:10

Wishmaster, even though I have a certain "reputation" with alliances, calling them names, Im going to break the mould. I am totally shocked by Biffy's actions. I know the image which is referred to and I found it funny as ****. I showed it to my friends, they thought it was funny - one of them is even thinking about getting an account for PA.

If the "admins" actually looked around the universe, they would find quite a few gal banners featuring scantaly clad, dare I say semi pornographic, images. But if they got rid of them all then they would have a much smaller player base.

Biffy, you are totally out of sync with the community, as this whole thread has shown you. Now the part most people have been looking forward to, my rant against biffy.

I had no issue with keeping you closed and was surprised when Appoco informed me had re-opened the account after discussing it with yourself as I felt you losing out on some attacks and defence was hardly a suitable punishment for what you did.

So now you cant even keep tabs on your own Team? Appoco is what I like to call "the friendly face". He's one of the most active PA Teamers on IRC and is always there. That shows that he's "in touch" with the community. You sir, are not.

If you went around posting pictures like that in your work you'd probably be fired in this country and at the very least be in a heap of trouble even for just looking at a picture like that. You're just lucky you are not based in the UK for if you were I would have no hesitation in contacting your ISP to report your actions.

Not really. It depends on your boss. Either he would take disciplinary action against you, ie suspension or he would find it so amusing he'd let you off. It is no way an offence and as such if you went to an ISP they would laugh at you. I am still laughing at you at the moment.

We allow people the chance to post galpics but this sort of incident suggests to me that there is a need to perhaps remove this feature from future rounds if it is going to be abused in such a way.

Oooooh threatening the community! Way to go biffy!!

Let me see. It is a pornographic picture due to the image placed on the TV screen. There are children in it. It is therefore an illegal image. How does it not meet your definition?

Photoshop isnt illegal. The image had a group of people watching some adult material. In real-life this would techinically be illegal (depending where you are in the world), but a FAKE image of it is not.

Oh really. So if someone took a picture of a little girl and superimposed a man performing a sexual act on her that would not, in your view, be kiddy porn? That's an interesting point of view to have but I'm afraid it is not one that I agree with, hence my actions in closing his account.

Now your just being stupid.

Now that parts down, a reply to someone whose posted

Since when is watching porn a sexual activity. Its the other things u can do while watching porn sexualy actividys

I totally agree. I think in this case biffy is acting like a numty and has realised how much of a hole he has dug.

Overall before this incident it was a good week for PA. Interesting battles at the top, PAN being announced. But biffy had to spoil it, many props to you

robban1 · 13 Nov 2005, 13:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prawn

If the picture isn't seriously morally questionable, why did somebody need to photoshop it? Surely it would have just been ok to photograph a bunch of 12 year olds watching porno... no.

m8 the kids in the pic wasnt orginally watching porn on tv that whats is pasted in with photoshop so suprise suprise its fake pic and its supposed to be a funny one nothing more nothing less and should be treated that way

newt · 13 Nov 2005, 13:30

Biffy epitomises what is wrong this society today. You are a total moron, and to be honest, you should be ashamed and issue a full and frank apology to wishmaster for suggesting he deals in the ditribution of child porn. If I was him I would be sueing you and jolt for every penny (which probably isnt much if they're having to employ dickwads like you) for every penny they have.

jerome · 13 Nov 2005, 13:30

no matter what any of you have said, how anyone can SERIOUSLY say that he should've been closed straight off without a warning for THAT gal pic, i honestly have no idea.

newt · 13 Nov 2005, 13:31

Also, can anyone imagine this happening under the control of Spinner and co?

God, how I miss those days.

Smudge · 13 Nov 2005, 13:32

Spinner would have laughed it off.

/me sighs

Kargool · 13 Nov 2005, 13:36

I am very conservative when it comes to pictures especially in a game like PA, call me boring or stuff, but I really dont think that someone should post pornographic images.

But Biffy, about removing galaxy pictures, please dont. Galaxypictures are a part of the feel PA has, you create a galaxy with a feel..
Instead, why not make it so that the admins would have to approve any galpictures put up. And before you say that the PA crew dont have the time, I would happily volunteer for the job.

Smudge · 13 Nov 2005, 13:38

Good idea Kargool but way, way too sensible for Jolt

Cannon_Fodder · 13 Nov 2005, 13:39

Careful Smudge he might fire you!

newt · 13 Nov 2005, 13:46

I would rather someone not devoid of any kind of sense of humour like kargool was in charge of censoring galpics :/

biffy · 13 Nov 2005, 13:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kargool

I am very conservative when it comes to pictures especially in a game like PA, call me boring or stuff, but I really dont think that someone should post pornographic images.

But Biffy, about removing galaxy pictures, please dont. Galaxypictures are a part of the feel PA has, you create a galaxy with a feel..
Instead, why not make it so that the admins would have to approve any galpictures put up. And before you say that the PA crew dont have the time, I would happily volunteer for the job.

I've been considering something like that but the problem is that unless we stored the pictures locally as soon as they were approved someone could change the image at the url and replace it with something along the lines of what Wishmaster did.

randal · 13 Nov 2005, 13:47

Maybe those people who have their mouse over the Close button should try to at least have a glimpse of a clue how much time and other input it takes to be 'quite successful' in this game, get your own planet, your Galaxy, your Alliance and everything working as it should, which that dude in question apparently has.

I guess guys like biffy would estimate '5-10 minutes a day?', else they would have a bit more idea of a situation like that.
Screaming 'KIDDIE PORN', throwing threats about reports to ISPs around, and of very course close the planet without any notice for those few pixels simply show absolutely no instinct for the game and all that's connected to it for some people.

I guess it's not my kinda humor, but i understand why others do think it's a funny pic. Even I had put 'worse' pictures up in the past, mostly round4 I guess.. If anyone would have closed me without notice then, that sure would have been it for planearium
Oh well I guess I'd have saved around 30 or what nice euros and alot of time :/

robban1 · 13 Nov 2005, 13:53

__________________
Jolt Community Manager

noob... kids+porn isnt = kiddieporn ..................you suck

derry · 13 Nov 2005, 13:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by biffy

That depends entirely on what your definition of child porn is. Some people consider pictures of young girls / boys in suggestive poses to be child porn and in my view the image in question is far worse than that.

Would your opinion perhaps be different if, instead of boys, the picture was full of young girls?

no, the vieuw would stay the same, because none of them are engaging in the "action" whichw as visible on the tv screen (ofc that doesn't mean that posting hard porn with a child watching is good, but in this case you can see its photoshopped, and they are all in not involved in the "porn scene" that was on the tv

tbh, i agree with you he should have been closed, break the rules=close, nuff said, but saying its child porn, no thats not correct imo

robban1 · 13 Nov 2005, 14:00

break the rules=close

haha well do some serious cheating and see how leet they are in their reactions

Duncan · 13 Nov 2005, 14:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by _ryzekiel_

no matter what any of you have said, how anyone can SERIOUSLY say that he should've been closed straight off without a warning for THAT gal pic, i honestly have no idea.

according to the rules they can close people for any infraction without warning if deemed appropriate by jolt. (go read those two paragraphs quoted by phil on the first page)

the enforcing of these rules is riddled with double standards and you can be closed on pretty much any whim.

i find that pretty stupid as well tbh.

Squishy · 13 Nov 2005, 14:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by randal

Maybe those people who have their mouse over the Close button should try to at least have a glimpse of a clue how much time and other input it takes to be 'quite successful' in this game, get your own planet, your Galaxy, your Alliance and everything working as it should, which that dude in question apparently has.

I guess guys like biffy would estimate '5-10 minutes a day?', else they would have a bit more idea of a situation like that.
Screaming 'KIDDIE PORN', throwing threats about reports to ISPs around, and of very course close the planet without any notice for those few pixels simply show absolutely no instinct for the game and all that's connected to it for some people.

I guess it's not my kinda humor, but i understand why others do think it's a funny pic. Even I had put 'worse' pictures up in the past, mostly round4 I guess.. If anyone would have closed me without notice then, that sure would have been it for planearium
Oh well I guess I'd have saved around 30 or what nice euros and alot of time :/

Im one of the people who have their mouse over the close button and i certainly know what it takes to be successful in this game.

Im sorry but this kind of picture wether it can be classed as kiddie porn or not is clearly dipicting sexual intercourse. And their was a fair number of complaints about it by concerned members of the community (no not just 1up)

The action that was taken was in essence the right one if you break the rules you will be warned or closed at the admins discretion. As this was biffys case he clearly beleaved that the picture warrented a closure.

For a long term PA player who obviously knows that this picture would have caused problems

Quote:

Originally Posted by wishmaster

I ONLY DID IT FOR A DARE

Then their can be no complaints if he knew it would cause offence to certain members of the community then he must of known the potential consequences

Biffy did the right thing in closing the offender. Wether you people agree with it or not.

robban1 · 13 Nov 2005, 14:10

the rules more or less tell you that they can close a guy for all and nothing and therefor the credibillity of the rules is in question but the question here is why this pic was so damn scary?

Ice|work · 13 Nov 2005, 14:11

I just came back after a few rounds to play (and pay) PA. But reading this whole thread and regarding this pathetic decision it's quite obvious too me it's not worth to play another round. If even the fun is gone and ppl got closed for funny Gal-Pics there's is really not much Spirit in this game.

Damn.... where are you Zeus when you are needed?

Biffy.. with the intuitive feeling you showed in this case, i wouldn't be surprised to see you cleaning the server-rooms in the future. Wrong man in the wrong position atm.

Ice|work....

PS Wish... sorry for the time you wasted.

robban1 · 13 Nov 2005, 14:11

Support Team - #support
We're here to help!

Ops Team - #planetarion
We're watching you!

MultiHunting Team - #multihunters
Gotta catch 'em all!

licking ass is fun right?

Squishy · 13 Nov 2005, 14:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by robban1

Support Team - #support
We're here to help!

Ops Team - #planetarion
We're watching you!

MultiHunting Team - #multihunters
Gotta catch 'em all!

licking ass is fun right?

I like ot give something back to the game how exactly is that ass licking ??

robban1 · 13 Nov 2005, 14:17

The action that was taken was in essence the right one if you break the rules you will be warned or closed at the admins discretion. As this was biffys case he clearly beleaved that the picture warrented a closure.

this is^^ mmmmmm marabou

Squishy · 13 Nov 2005, 14:24

Ok i have put down my view i wont bother replying to this thread anymore as its got a bit rediculous.

For all the people who dont agree with the desicion that is entiarly up to you. You are all entiteled to your opinions but the desicion that was made was for the benifit of the game and the community as a whole. Because this was a top 10 galaxy lots of people saw the pic in the '26 hours' it was up and their was a lot of concern about it.

A desicion by an admin was made to close the offending planet for this breech of the rules. A desicion that most of the rest of the Admins in the game past and present actually agree with.

Ignore the debate about wether its kiddie porn or not. The rules were broken and were broken deliberatly or he would have done it without having to be dared, if you break the rules deliberatly and are closed then you should have no complaints. If anyone wants to discuss this further then you can approch me on IRC as im not gonna ge involved in a flame war with people.

Smudge · 13 Nov 2005, 14:25

robban1 - how many times have you seen the rules broken and no action taken. Rules which are more important?

this is ^^ mmmmm stupid

bwtmc · 13 Nov 2005, 14:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by robban1

Support Team - #support
We're here to help!

Ops Team - #planetarion
We're watching you!

MultiHunting Team - #multihunters
Gotta catch 'em all!

licking ass is fun right?

robban you're a wanker.

robban1 · 13 Nov 2005, 14:30

this is not a flamewar you support a dictatorship and therefor you are a twat

btw marabou is a choclade brand .....................brownnose boy

randal · 13 Nov 2005, 14:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squishy

Ignore the debate about wether its kiddie porn or not. .

Why should it be ignored.. I don't actually know who biffy is, but it seems he is somehow extremely important for this game that we spend money and alot of time on.
And his stand, i.e. the last thing he said, is that this picture is kiddie porn, while I find the comparison more than disturbing and upsetting.

I personally kinda want to know how the extremely important people's brains work, else how do I know if i maybe don't accidently break some rule (in this case, one that's hardly based on objectivity but on pure opinion) aswell and have my time and money wasted without any notice.

qebab · 13 Nov 2005, 14:31

Heh, had I been closed for something like this I'd laugh rather than go whine. I wouldn't even thought it to be meant serious. You're all going mental; "Kids play this game, its porn..." etc.

Well guess what, if a kid knows how to find and play Planetarion, he knows how find porn on the internet.

Also, I seen the picture, and calling it kiddieporn is just silly. It is kids watching porn, - not even the slightest hint that the kids are a part of a sexual act in any way, and it is called kiddieporn.

Censoring the galpic because of younger players; yes.
Closing the account because of a silly galpic; well, don't agree, should have been given a warning or taken away the galpic or something first, but hey! You guys are allowed to do that according to the EULA.
Reporting the player in question to the authorities for sharing kiddieporn; one big "LAWL!!".

And to quote jerome:
no matter what any of you have said, how anyone can SERIOUSLY say that he should've been closed straight off without a warning for THAT gal pic, i honestly have no idea.

I actually tend to agree.

Ice|work · 13 Nov 2005, 14:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squishy

For all the people who dont agree with the desicion that is entiarly up to you. You are all entiteled to your opinions but the desicion that was made was for the benifit of the game and the community as a whole.

I'm in no relation to wishmaster, his alliance or something else. But i do feel related to the community )or whats now left of it). And as a part of this community i'm quite disappointed with the pathetic decision made by an one-man-army and his point of view.

But as you said... it's up to me to decide how to live with it.

Ice|work

bwtmc · 13 Nov 2005, 14:34

Yeah, Jolt is a dictatorship for sure \o/

Ramihyn · 13 Nov 2005, 14:34

Such a picture is walking a very thin line depending on country law.

http://ue.eu.int/cms3_Applications/a...ang=EN&lang=EN

Check Article 1 - Definitions - (b) (i)

The english version is rather broad but the german translation explicitly mentions "passive" participation. It would probably need a UK lawyer or judge to lay out the exact meaning in UK law but i dont think it is a translation error in the german version.

Next is the problem of "virtual" child pornography - again it depends on country law. In germany it is forbidden(see paragraph 184 and 176 StGB) - in the US after heated discussions it is currently not illegal. I dont know exactly about the UK - probably Yahwe or somebody else can comment that.

Like it or not - walking such a thin line deliberatly is just plain stupid.