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Unread 8 Nov 2005, 12:33   #51
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Re: is it happening, and if so, what's being done

We try to close ANYONE we beleave is cheating regardless of what others might come and complain about or say.

If their is firm evedence that someone is cheating then they will be closed and will remain closed no matter the amount of riots that are started in the process.

However if their is even the smallet doupt that it could be something innocent then we cannot keep them closed closing innocent people is not what we are here to do and it will be avoided at all costs. However every person who is reopened is watched very closley if they step out of line again then the are closed with no chance of appeal.

As regarding name and shame im not so for that ok these people have cheated but they should have the chance to make a fresh start next round without any stigma attached to them. What is a very good idea is MH reporting stats on planets closed and warned this will put confidence back into what we do.

We will have some talks tonight about the best way the community can report suspicious behaviour and somthing will be announced in the next day or so.
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Unread 8 Nov 2005, 12:40   #52
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Re: is it happening, and if so, what's being done

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wandows
Tbh, they can be as effective as they like, but as long as we don't hear anything about what they do we won't know that. I personally am in favour to name and shame all cheaters, that way we atleast know whats going on from the MH camp and can actually see they doing something. Atm its just by 'coincedence' you find out a certain planet has been deleted, i rather have it out in the open (once there are no options left for the player in questions to avoid deletion).

i dont wanna know how they do things, but i would like to know who got closed and the reason for the closure.

that should be made public.
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Unread 8 Nov 2005, 13:00   #53
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Re: is it happening, and if so, what's being done

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nadar
Why would they tell us how they do their work? Then the cheaters could try work against them and possibly avoid it. I'm in favour of name and shame aswell.
I think you missed my point. I don't want MH to tell us how they work, but i would like to see results of their work. A simple list of cheaters caught & the given punishment would do imho. As the game is for the players, it would be nice for the players to know who are trying to cheat their way to a win/good rank.
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Unread 8 Nov 2005, 13:11   #54
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Re: is it happening, and if so, what's being done

Lets put it this way, until we know who is closed (dont need to be nick but just coords) and why they been closed, i still do think that no one get closed.
i would like to know why people get reopened aswel, as a paying customer this is my right to know that other paying customer arent cheating and if they do and get an advantage over me i think i should know the report of if they get closed or not, that way i will know if i will want to put my money again in this game.
Of course if Jolt doesnt want to give us this information, then its up to us to think if we want to do continue playing.
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Unread 8 Nov 2005, 13:12   #55
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Re: is it happening, and if so, what's being done

Quote:
Originally Posted by Squishy
As regarding name and shame im not so for that ok these people have cheated but they should have the chance to make a fresh start next round without any stigma attached to them. What is a very good idea is MH reporting stats on planets closed and warned this will put confidence back into what we do.
So you think its fair that the players cheating every fcking round deserves a fresh start next round?
Sorry mate but thats utterly bullshit.
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Unread 8 Nov 2005, 13:19   #56
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Re: is it happening, and if so, what's being done

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Originally Posted by CrazyConrad
So you think its fair that the players cheating every fcking round deserves a fresh start next round?
Sorry mate but thats utterly bullshit.
I agree. Repeatative cheating should eventually lead to getting banned from the game. Who wants peoples such as BBW around anyway?
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Unread 8 Nov 2005, 13:27   #57
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Re: is it happening, and if so, what's being done

alch is that planet you reported closed yet? cuz let's face it... when you just get roided and wanna retal you are not gonna be stupid and push def instead....

not to mention the difference in red and green is quite big so you do know if it's attack or defence.

but the fact he was still open 2 days later kinda says enough (note i have no fking clue who alch is talking about or what alliance)
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Unread 8 Nov 2005, 13:28   #58
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Re: is it happening, and if so, what's being done

The reason i think it should be that way is if someone breaks the rules ie they share their account details out with someone for 1 weekend say, then they will be closed for it i dont think its fair that this person is then branded a cheater from then on in if its just one simple mistake. We all have bad judgement and make mistakes from time to time and 90% of people learn from these mistakes and dont make them again.

Its these people who should not be named for having bad judgment or making a mistake. Repeatative cheaters i have no problems with naming and shaming them but certainly not everyone.
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Unread 8 Nov 2005, 13:51   #59
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Re: is it happening, and if so, what's being done

Quote:
Originally Posted by cypher
alch is that planet you reported closed yet? cuz let's face it... when you just get roided and wanna retal you are not gonna be stupid and push def instead....

not to mention the difference in red and green is quite big so you do know if it's attack or defence.

but the fact he was still open 2 days later kinda says enough (note i have no fking clue who alch is talking about or what alliance)

Of course not.
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Unread 8 Nov 2005, 13:54   #60
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Re: is it happening, and if so, what's being done

Quote:
Originally Posted by Squishy
The reason i think it should be that way is if someone breaks the rules ie they share their account details out with someone for 1 weekend say, then they will be closed for it i dont think its fair that this person is then branded a cheater from then on in if its just one simple mistake. We all have bad judgement and make mistakes from time to time and 90% of people learn from these mistakes and dont make them again.

Its these people who should not be named for having bad judgment or making a mistake. Repeatative cheaters i have no problems with naming and shaming them but certainly not everyone.
What a complete bag of crap. A cheater is a cheater, whether it be for the weekend or the year. I find it quite concerning that you, as a multi hunter, are self defining how "badly" someone is cheating and their justification for doing so. You of all people should see cheating as a whole rather than looking at shades of grey.

In addition, although I think he was crap for doing it, if Idler deserved being "named and shamed" and his alliance brought to the fore just for creating a crap gimmick account that made even crapper posts, why shouldn't this kind of machiavelli attitude be continued onto people who genuinely harm the game?
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Unread 8 Nov 2005, 14:03   #61
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Re: is it happening, and if so, what's being done

And think about the effect a name and shame policy would have. Many ppl would be a lot more reluctant to cheat if they knew it would be known to the entire pa community if they got cought. A cheater who gets closed and that’s it won’t stop cheating next round, he will only cheat "better". If the whole community knows you for what you are, you might be more reluctant to do so in the future...

And I do believe there is a difference between mild and more serious cheating but that should be up to the community to judge and not a single multihunter.
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Unread 8 Nov 2005, 14:05   #62
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Re: is it happening, and if so, what's being done

Quote:
Originally Posted by mazzelaar
In addition, although I think he was crap for doing it, if Idler deserved being "named and shamed" and his alliance brought to the fore just for creating a crap gimmick account that made even crapper posts, why shouldn't this kind of machiavelli attitude be continued onto people who genuinely harm the game?
It should, but as alch stated ... Jolt doesn't like that idea
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Unread 8 Nov 2005, 14:07   #63
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Re: is it happening, and if so, what's being done

Im not defining cheating in shades of gray.

If someone cheats i will close them and fight to keep them closed no matter how badley they did it. But i will fight for people not to be named for minor offenses (stuff i will still close them for) I dont beleave people should be named to the general public after being closed.

They have their planet closed and deteled lose what ever rank they have and standing within their alliance who obviously find out. I dont think it should be down to us to name them in front of the entire community and have them shamed more. If people cheat and are deleted this is a big enough punishment without turning everyone else in the game against them.

And you do have different levels of cheating some a hell of a lot worse than others such as repetative breaking of the rules. But that doesnt change my stand that if people break the rules they should be closed no matter the offence. Thats the stand i always take when dealing with people i feel are cheating.

If you cheat to any degree i will close you
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Unread 8 Nov 2005, 14:10   #64
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Re: is it happening, and if so, what's being done

I fear that as soon as you generate a list of people, someone will try and reach the top of it - same goes for cheaters.

Though i tend to agree with those who want co-ords and a reason such as 'multiing' (which shouldnt give out MH methods and techniques for catching them ) - though i am a little more hesitant about displaying reasons for players to be re-opened; this would only let cheaters gradually work out how to dodge the system and not be deleted, which i think is a bad thing.
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Unread 8 Nov 2005, 14:14   #65
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Re: is it happening, and if so, what's being done

A naming, and description of the actions leading to closure, wouldn't be a bad idea. Certainly it would avoid the dilemma of they all get branded cheaters if you say what they got closed for. After that the community can make up it's own mind on whether or not it wants them in their alliances. I'm not sure how someone can make a mistake as regards account sharing. We all know it's illegal now and it's hardly like "oh shit my hand slipped and i accidentally pasted my login details into a private conversation with someone i knew about how i hoped my planet would be okay for the weekened". I think we're past believing 'once a cheater always a cheater' when it comes to account sharing when people are going away or accounts being swapped. It's pretty much axiomatic that if player A played PA during rds 1-4 they cheated anyways and I haven't noticed too many people running around being offensive over what happened years ago. The best idea is for the users to make decisions on a case-by-case basis and is such it is advisable for all information, including whether or not, and if so how, they cheated.
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Unread 8 Nov 2005, 14:44   #66
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Re: is it happening, and if so, what's being done

Quote:
Originally Posted by Squishy
If people cheat and are deleted this is a big enough punishment without turning everyone else in the game against them.
If that's the case then why do we have repeat offenders?
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Unread 8 Nov 2005, 14:44   #67
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Re: is it happening, and if so, what's being done

Quote:
Originally Posted by Squishy
Im not defining cheating in shades of gray.

If someone cheats i will close them and fight to keep them closed no matter how badley they did it. But i will fight for people not to be named for minor offenses (stuff i will still close them for) I dont beleave people should be named to the general public after being closed.

They have their planet closed and deteled lose what ever rank they have and standing within their alliance who obviously find out. I dont think it should be down to us to name them in front of the entire community and have them shamed more. If people cheat and are deleted this is a big enough punishment without turning everyone else in the game against them.

And you do have different levels of cheating some a hell of a lot worse than others such as repetative breaking of the rules. But that doesnt change my stand that if people break the rules they should be closed no matter the offence. Thats the stand i always take when dealing with people i feel are cheating.

If you cheat to any degree i will close you
A cheater be it minor or major incident is still a god damn cheater. Many ppl gets their whole round ruined cause of the cheating scums. I cant believe you as a multihunter can come here and defend and protect them from beeing more shamed. They deserve all the shame they can get ffs.
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Unread 8 Nov 2005, 15:02   #68
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Re: is it happening, and if so, what's being done

Im not defending anyone just in my view people who get closed and have their round ruined is enough without naming them for the whole community.

I am extremly strick when it comes to breaking the rules if i catch anyone deleberate infrindgment of the rules i will close people without a second thought and i will make damn sure they are not able to cheat again in future rounds. And in my eyes this is enough but perhaps it needs more discusion as to the MH rules and procedures.

What would give you guys more confidence in what we do??
What do u want to see happening??

Our job is here to serve you guys not battle against you we may have differing view on certain issues but the whole point is to make this game better for everyone or at leaste do the best we can towards that aim.
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Unread 8 Nov 2005, 15:15   #69
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Re: is it happening, and if so, what's being done

At the very least, if someone is closed the HC of the alliance should be informed straight away. Maybe a automatic ingame mail, a "ingame mail with custom reason" (similar to when someone is promoted in the ingame alliance or exiled) or the MH has an option to send a mail to the alliance.

I know there are some HCs who might just ignore it and think "oh well X better luck next time" but hopefully the majority would act on it.
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Unread 8 Nov 2005, 15:22   #70
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Re: is it happening, and if so, what's being done

Quote:
Originally Posted by Squishy
What would give you guys more confidence in what we do??
What do u want to see happening??
Create a post called "Cheating scums of Planetarion" List everybody that cheats with nick, alliance and how they cheated. Everyone on such a list will think twice before ever cheating again. Or even better, never show their faces in this community again.

But we cant have Jolt lose any customers now can we :/
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Unread 8 Nov 2005, 15:25   #71
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Re: is it happening, and if so, what's being done

Quote:
Originally Posted by mazzelaar
In addition, although I think he was crap for doing it, if Idler deserved being "named and shamed" and his alliance brought to the fore just for creating a crap gimmick account that made even crapper posts
It hardly damaged 1up's reputation or anything though, did it mazz?

It just made us all think Idler was a bit of an eejit for doing it.

We already know 1up have got some really shit AD posters in there (see "chika") - one or two more wont' affect anything.
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Unread 8 Nov 2005, 15:28   #72
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Re: is it happening, and if so, what's being done

PS alch why don't you just give the names out of the people who you think are cheating, and then back the statements up?

Being secretive about it is just silly. Let the players (and maybe their respective alliances) defend themselves on here.

You haven't got anything to lose by doing it.
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Unread 8 Nov 2005, 16:05   #73
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Re: is it happening, and if so, what's being done

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stifler
At the very least, if someone is closed the HC of the alliance should be informed straight away. Maybe a automatic ingame mail, a "ingame mail with custom reason" (similar to when someone is promoted in the ingame alliance or exiled) or the MH has an option to send a mail to the alliance.

I know there are some HCs who might just ignore it and think "oh well X better luck next time" but hopefully the majority would act on it.
good point, I'd like to find out if a member of my alliances is closed and under investigation. Atleast the HC can act upon it rather then waiting to hear the abuse of the community before they know what is going on.
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Unread 8 Nov 2005, 16:25   #74
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Re: is it happening, and if so, what's being done

NO!

I think the purpose of not informing alliance HCs is so that closed planets, which are pending investigation, are sometimes reopened and no planet deserves to be kicked from an alliance for something that is later proved to be not cheating or a mistake, etc.

-NitinA
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Unread 8 Nov 2005, 16:34   #75
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Re: is it happening, and if so, what's being done

Quote:
Originally Posted by aNgRyDuCk
did I point any fingers or accuse anyone in particular........ ?
Did I ? I just wondered why there's so much accusing about cheating when eXil is here. Or do you deny that there were no accusing @ round 13 ?
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Unread 8 Nov 2005, 16:35   #76
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Re: is it happening, and if so, what's being done

Quote:
Originally Posted by NitinA
NO!

I think the purpose of not informing alliance HCs is so that closed planets, which are pending investigation, are sometimes reopened and no planet deserves to be kicked from an alliance for something that is later proved to be not cheating or a mistake, etc.

-NitinA
not saying they should, but they should be aware they are under investigation and if they are clean and honest they can ask the planet in question what they have been "charged" with.

It means alliance HC cant claim they didnt know someone was closed etc
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Unread 8 Nov 2005, 16:36   #77
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Re: is it happening, and if so, what's being done

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat
It hardly damaged 1up's reputation or anything though, did it mazz?

It just made us all think Idler was a bit of an eejit for doing it.

We already know 1up have got some really shit AD posters in there (see "chika") - one or two more wont' affect anything.
Whether it did or not is hardly the point. It was done with the intent of doing so and to make an example of idler who, irrespective of how shit we all think his posts were, did nothing more that have a bit of fun. Why this rule should be applied to something as crap as what idler did and not to the cheating bastards wrecking the game for us all is beyond me.
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Unread 8 Nov 2005, 16:39   #78
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Re: is it happening, and if so, what's being done

no-one said an HC would kick em on sight... but for all you know the HC might have suspiciouns regardless... and god knows mh hardly close ...

to emphasise that: sorry alch for asking for the obvious...
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Unread 8 Nov 2005, 16:42   #79
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Re: is it happening, and if so, what's being done

Quote:
Originally Posted by cypher
no-one said an HC would kick em on sight... but for all you know the HC might have suspiciouns regardless... and god knows mh hardly close ...

to emphasise that: sorry alch for asking for the obvious...
yes if the HC is honest maybe they will "dish dirt" themselves if something stands out, we all know most of the major alliances track fleet movements etc
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Unread 8 Nov 2005, 16:45   #80
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Re: is it happening, and if so, what's being done

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stifler
yes if the HC is honest maybe they will "dish dirt" themselves if something stands out, we all know most of the major alliances track fleet movements etc
Are you serious Stif?

No HC would ever post publicly that their members had been cheating.

Whether the HC knew about the cheating at the time or not, it would still always reflect badly on the alliance.
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Unread 8 Nov 2005, 16:46   #81
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Re: is it happening, and if so, what's being done

Quote:
Originally Posted by NitinA
NO!

I think the purpose of not informing alliance HCs is so that closed planets, which are pending investigation, are sometimes reopened and no planet deserves to be kicked from an alliance for something that is later proved to be not cheating or a mistake, etc.

-NitinA
As a current HC I would rather know if one of my members was under suspicion or already closed. Not to kick but to be in the loop and questioning their conduct myself.
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Unread 8 Nov 2005, 16:48   #82
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Re: is it happening, and if so, what's being done

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat
Are you serious Stif?

No HC would ever post publicly that their members had been cheating.

Whether the HC knew about the cheating at the time or not, it would still always reflect badly on the alliance.
plenty of HC have said they would report someone* if they were cheating, so why wouldnt they give evidence to someone already reported?

Ofcourse it could just be all talk, but we can always hope


*a member
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Unread 8 Nov 2005, 16:56   #83
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Re: is it happening, and if so, what's being done

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nadar
I agree. Repeatative cheating should eventually lead to getting banned from the game. Who wants peoples such as BBW around anyway?
BBW can have a whole galaxy of farms, and still not get into top100
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Unread 8 Nov 2005, 17:03   #84
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Re: is it happening, and if so, what's being done

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BBW can have a whole galaxy of farms, and still not get into top100
hahaha so damn true
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Unread 8 Nov 2005, 17:06   #85
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Re: is it happening, and if so, what's being done

Quote:
Originally Posted by mazzelaar
As a current HC I would rather know if one of my members was under suspicion or already closed. Not to kick but to be in the loop and questioning their conduct myself.
Yeah, but what's to stop a HC of some other alliance to kick for something that's later disproved / the planet reopened?

-NitinA
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Unread 8 Nov 2005, 17:09   #86
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Re: is it happening, and if so, what's being done

Quote:
Originally Posted by NitinA
Yeah, but what's to stop a HC of some other alliance to kick for something that's later disproved / the planet reopened?

-NitinA
Most HC would probably talk to the member first without just randomly kicking at first sight of the message, and I dont think people would agrue about that.
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Unread 8 Nov 2005, 17:15   #87
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Re: is it happening, and if so, what's being done

Quote:
Originally Posted by Barrow|Pony Yesterday
We've seen the gimmick accounts, the cheating accusations...

If history has anything to say about it, the farming allegations wil be next, followed by a harsh criticism of PA Crew's refusal to close the #1 planet.

Just a hunch.
Chalk one up for Barrow.
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Unread 8 Nov 2005, 17:28   #88
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Re: is it happening, and if so, what's being done

Quote:
Originally Posted by NitinA
Yeah, but what's to stop a HC of some other alliance to kick for something that's later disproved / the planet reopened?

-NitinA
I guess that'd be poor judgement of the HC in question and all in all I'd call it "though luck". It's not something the MH team needs to take into account. I agree with Mazz on this, I'd like to know what's going on an being in the loop when such a thing occurs.
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Unread 8 Nov 2005, 17:49   #89
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Re: is it happening, and if so, what's being done

Quote:
Originally Posted by NitinA
Yeah, but what's to stop a HC of some other alliance to kick for something that's later disproved / the planet reopened?

-NitinA

if an hc would kick that fast the member was already not too good a member i assume. Turn it around for the planet under investigation... if his HC kicks him like that this easy he's not in the right place... so you're basically only helping both sides.

i think most hc's would handle it responsibly and indeed alot won't kick for it but maybe 2 hc's in total will and it'll help then.
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Unread 8 Nov 2005, 18:14   #90
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Re: is it happening, and if so, what's being done

Quote:
Originally Posted by NitinA
Yeah, but what's to stop a HC of some other alliance to kick for something that's later disproved / the planet reopened?

-NitinA
If someone is that quick to judge one of their own members then they don't deserve to be HC in my opion.
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Unread 8 Nov 2005, 18:26   #91
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Re: is it happening, and if so, what's being done

Quote:
Originally Posted by mazzelaar
If someone is that quick to judge one of their own members then they don't deserve to be HC in my opion.
I couldn't agree more with cypher or mazz on that. But to be honest, I think that quite a few 5-15 ranked alliances or up-and-coming alliances wouldn't react in the same rational way that we agree that we would. As far as the 'tough luck' arguement goes--I don't agree with that.

I would, personally, support (as an alternative) the MH contacting the alliance (via in-game alliance mail) about a planet's status once the case has been finalized (after the inital closing, investigation, decision that the planet will not be re-opened, and has been marked for deletion).

Then again, I'd assume any semi-average alliance would notice once the member isn't able to defend or attack for an extended period of time.

-NitinA
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Unread 8 Nov 2005, 18:41   #92
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Re: is it happening, and if so, what's being done

Quote:
Originally Posted by cypher
alch is that planet you reported closed yet? cuz let's face it... when you just get roided and wanna retal you are not gonna be stupid and push def instead....

not to mention the difference in red and green is quite big so you do know if it's attack or defence.

but the fact he was still open 2 days later kinda says enough (note i have no fking clue who alch is talking about or what alliance)
Pushing the wrong button is entirely possible - I've done it once before and sent a fleet on defend not attack. Of course when I did it the fleet had pods in - and didn't happen to be full of def ships that coincidentally targetted the fleet of an actual attacker on the planet at the same tick. I also noticed my mistake within one tick - and didn't land on the planet and help fight his attacker in a battle.
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Unread 8 Nov 2005, 18:48   #93
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Re: is it happening, and if so, what's being done

Is it just me that finds it odd that a senior 1up member is accusing (no-one in particular, but still) enemies of cheating in the round when 1up are struggling.

Is it just possible eXi are actually the best alliance around at the moment?

Saying that, the amount of small cath fleets defending against FR incs I've seen this round from eXi is rather worrying....
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Unread 8 Nov 2005, 18:55   #94
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Re: is it happening, and if so, what's being done

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Fish
Is it just possible eXi are actually the best alliance around at the moment?
eXi is a pretty damn good alliance with many hardcore players despite whatever anyone says. I'm sure the MH's is keeping a close eye on them since some might have a naughty past. But blaming it on cheating is always the easiest way to explain why your(or anyone) losing. But on the other hand, much can happen in the remaining 7 weeks
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Unread 8 Nov 2005, 19:06   #95
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Re: is it happening, and if so, what's being done

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Fish
Is it just me that finds it odd that a senior 1up member is accusing (no-one in particular, but still) enemies of cheating in the round when 1up are struggling.

Is it just possible eXi are actually the best alliance around at the moment?

Saying that, the amount of small cath fleets defending against FR incs I've seen this round from eXi is rather worrying....
They do have members/nonmebers that support them but aren't part of the alliance as it were. Can't say I like it but it's legal so long as they aren't contravening any of the rules.
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Unread 8 Nov 2005, 19:22   #96
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Re: is it happening, and if so, what's being done

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Fish
Is it just me that finds it odd that a senior 1up member is accusing (no-one in particular, but still) enemies of cheating in the round when 1up are struggling.

Is it just possible eXi are actually the best alliance around at the moment?

Saying that, the amount of small cath fleets defending against FR incs I've seen this round from eXi is rather worrying....
you are assuming it's about exi... that's what you said... that senior 1up member didn't. we didn't complain last round either about stuff while we were shit at the start. you know better fish

and also the point made by alch is a very valid one. why aren't such people closed? mh's have proof yet do nothing. There is no way it's an accident when someone you roid defends you a couple of ticks later on the perfect eta when you have incs with the perfect ships AGAINST your incs.
and Sid i do agree that you can hit wrong button, but i'm saying usually you see the colours in pa now which is a huge help and makes you notice at once imo. saying that people also do jgp or login within the 8/9/10 ticks it takes before landing unless that all suddenly didn't happen. When i retal someone i want him dead 5 times as much as any other time so i personally really make sure i do it right and make him hurt. I assume more people do that.

Note i have no idea which planet it is exactly whether alch reported exi/1up/angels/nd/etc. such planets are simply cheating and everyone knows it.
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Unread 8 Nov 2005, 19:28   #97
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Re: is it happening, and if so, what's being done

Well in all honesty cypher who else is that going to be aimed at?

Which alliance has been accused of cheating more than any other since LDK left the game?

Who are 1up's biggest enemies?

You can claim you aren't aiming it at them, but it's damn obvious who you are pointing the finger at. Whether or not this is justified or not, I'm not quite sure, does appear sour grapes, but like I said, there are some dodgy JGP's on eXi planets.

And you never had a poor start last round
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Unread 8 Nov 2005, 19:33   #98
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Re: is it happening, and if so, what's being done

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Fish
Well in all honesty cypher who else is that going to be aimed at?

Which alliance has been accused of cheating more than any other since LDK left the game?

Who are 1up's biggest enemies?

You can claim you aren't aiming it at them, but it's damn obvious who you are pointing the finger at. Whether or not this is justified or not, I'm not quite sure, does appear sour grapes, but like I said, there are some dodgy JGP's on eXi planets.

And you never had a poor start last round
I'd rather prefer you putting up a bet on your claims again ... oh wait...
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Unread 8 Nov 2005, 19:46   #99
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Re: is it happening, and if so, what's being done

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Fish
Who are 1up's biggest enemies?
I would of hoped that if ND wanted to ever win a round that they would be NDs biggest enemy as well seeing as they are #1
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Unread 8 Nov 2005, 19:46   #100
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Re: is it happening, and if so, what's being done

For the people commenting about the "msg to HC" when a planet is closed do it here
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