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28 Oct 2005, 12:00
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#1
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Bolivian Alpaca
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 912
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vnc
Is there any way of scanning for open VNC ports and deny login from those computers? or at least log that information?
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"I throw myself into the sea, release the wave, let it wash over me ..."
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28 Oct 2005, 12:11
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#2
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Swansea
Posts: 798
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Re: vnc
There is a way afiak, but there are many "proper" uses for VNC.
For example, many universties let people use VNC to access "campus only" sites, in my university many parts of their site is accessable only to ncl.ac.uk (newcastle) domains, so I must use VNC to connect to the network to be able to access things like the past exam paper site or some lecturerers home pages
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In Elysium till the end.
Former [1up]
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28 Oct 2005, 13:03
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#3
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-Back Again-
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Hitchin, Hertfordshire
Posts: 707
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Re: vnc
I don't think we can EVER deny login from IPs who have VNC open. For a start, it would block me from accessing the game and I tend to need to be able to login to get at the admin tools!
And besides, if we chose to do that, I'd just keep my VNC port on some sort of cycle. There's no way Planetarion can do an entire port scan on a computer before it allows a login. Not only because of the time it takes for TCP connections to reliably fail but also because you'd have to test the protocol being hosted on each port that is open.
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28 Oct 2005, 14:11
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#4
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Insomniac
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 3,583
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Re: vnc
erm , last i knew the pa server used ssh for admin logins to the server
unless ofc you mean remoting your home computer to use the web interface while you are at work
as for scanning for it, there isnt a reliable way of testing for it, since in addition to the points made above, it can be configured to listen to a small range of addesses for it also.
there is ( in theory ) a way to prevent it from being able to be used to login to an account though.
if you had something which 'flickered' parts of the bot stopper fast enough, so that all of the parts for it were never on screen, but flickered fast enough so that it appeared solid to humans ( 30fps+ for each piece ) , then vnc would only capture a part of the bot stopper question and not the whole thing.
it shouldnt be policy, imo that "vnc will never be blocked because some admins use it themselves".
(edit : admins can surely edit the login routine so they dont have the bot stopper or at least one which wont affect vnc logins )
it can, and often is used for cheating ( along with other methods too ) and anything which will curb the use of it for this purpose is always good.
Last edited by Phil^; 28 Oct 2005 at 15:36.
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28 Oct 2005, 14:30
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#5
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Swansea
Posts: 798
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Re: vnc
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil^
if you had something which 'flickered' parts of the bot stopper fast enough, so that all of the parts for it were never on screen, but flickered fast enough so that it appeared solid to humans ( 30fps+ for each piece ) , then vnc would only capture a part of the bot stopper question and not the whole thing.
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If that is reasonable easy to setup, it could actually be a very good way to combat VNC logins.
Please look at it
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In Elysium till the end.
Former [1up]
Current [Spore]
Returned under the IRC nick BenSwansea
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28 Oct 2005, 14:33
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#6
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Insomniac
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 3,583
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Re: vnc
i tried to bash people into doing so in my time in pateam , even coded a rough prototype as a java applet but from what im aware, its been abandoned as an idea by the current administration ( or at least put on the backburner so that other fixes to pa get priority )
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28 Oct 2005, 15:27
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#7
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-Back Again-
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Hitchin, Hertfordshire
Posts: 707
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Re: vnc
Now that the LZW patents have expired, GD has re-enabled thier GIF support. I'll look into making the server create fast animated gifs as you described, Phil.
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28 Oct 2005, 15:31
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#8
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Insomniac
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 3,583
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Re: vnc
or it could be a flash anim which takes image segments as parameters?
i know that flash can manage silly fps rates, having experimented with it for a uni assignment
There should also be a time limit for a user to log in, say 30 seconds or less so that should reduce the risk of someone sitting with vnc, watching the bot stopper in the off chance that all segments appear ( even if not all at once ) so they can answer
the java applet ( code which should be with kal but can email if needed ) is a bit flickery, probably due to java limitations as an applet, and the way its done but thats also available if you want it
Last edited by Phil^; 28 Oct 2005 at 15:38.
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28 Oct 2005, 16:10
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#9
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Inactive peon
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,050
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Re: vnc
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil^
or it could be a flash anim which takes image segments as parameters?
i know that flash can manage silly fps rates, having experimented with it for a uni assignment
There should also be a time limit for a user to log in, say 30 seconds or less so that should reduce the risk of someone sitting with vnc, watching the bot stopper in the off chance that all segments appear ( even if not all at once ) so they can answer
the java applet ( code which should be with kal but can email if needed ) is a bit flickery, probably due to java limitations as an applet, and the way its done but thats also available if you want it
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the java aplet was nice - but it would involve people haveing to have java installed - which is somehting we don;t want to do - i think experimenting with animated gifs is the way forward
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28 Oct 2005, 16:36
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#10
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U've been Moderated
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: getting sex0red by pretty women
Posts: 1,510
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Re: vnc
would that still properly show on my laptop from 1995? i know i can't play the simplest of movies on that.... but if not it would mean i can't play pa at nights any more either... which can't be the idea.
my laptop can just manage irc and IE
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Titans forever and ever.
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30 Oct 2005, 19:32
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#11
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Holland
Posts: 23
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Re: vnc
so we give this game a minimum sys req as all other games have
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30 Oct 2005, 19:52
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#12
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Insomniac
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 3,583
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Re: vnc
it already has a minimum system requirement
"a web browser" , ie5+ iirc
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30 Oct 2005, 20:29
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#13
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CRASHING BEATS 'N FANTASY
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Cold Country.
Posts: 1,912
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Re: vnc
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil^
it already has a minimum system requirement
"a web browser" , ie5+ iirc
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More likely a "html, css and javascript supporting Browser".
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Ià! Ià! Munin F'tagn! - [*scendancy]
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31 Oct 2005, 01:08
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#14
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Holland
Posts: 23
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Re: vnc
id call that software
i was talking hardware wise
oh and for the guy neg repping me:
im not complaining you moron. lucky u didnt put your name in it too coward
Last edited by Pietje; 31 Oct 2005 at 01:16.
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1 Nov 2005, 03:48
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#15
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DrFlame
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Germany
Posts: 91
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Re: vnc
even if u would find a solution, there are plenty of other programms and ways out there to achive the same as with vnc which wont be stopped by the security measures described above.
Things like vnc are simply a point where the cheat hunting gets impossible.
Thats why i often suggested (also in a lot of other games) that u rather take the advantage away of having additional online time and give ppl more options to manage their account.
I know especially active ppl dont like those suggestions. I consider myself also 24/7 active but im also realistic and having more time than others or the ability to be online isnt for me something that has to be rewarded.
If games like this want to survive they need to force the player to think more and show more teamplay instead of forcing ppl to stay up at weird times.
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1 Nov 2005, 04:59
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#16
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PGLee
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 70
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Re: vnc
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil^
erm , last i knew the pa server used ssh for admin logins to the server
unless ofc you mean remoting your home computer to use the web interface while you are at work
as for scanning for it, there isnt a reliable way of testing for it, since in addition to the points made above, it can be configured to listen to a small range of addesses for it also.
there is ( in theory ) a way to prevent it from being able to be used to login to an account though.
if you had something which 'flickered' parts of the bot stopper fast enough, so that all of the parts for it were never on screen, but flickered fast enough so that it appeared solid to humans ( 30fps+ for each piece ) , then vnc would only capture a part of the bot stopper question and not the whole thing.
it shouldnt be policy, imo that "vnc will never be blocked because some admins use it themselves".
(edit : admins can surely edit the login routine so they dont have the bot stopper or at least one which wont affect vnc logins )
it can, and often is used for cheating ( along with other methods too ) and anything which will curb the use of it for this purpose is always good.
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but i could use remote desktop and i can still see it fast enuf..
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1 Nov 2005, 05:15
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#17
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Insomniac
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 3,583
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Re: vnc
try remote desktoping another computer and watching a movie
if its jerky, it wont be :P
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1 Nov 2005, 13:00
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#18
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Lost
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Scotland
Posts: 413
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Re: vnc
Stopping VNC might nto stop cheating entiarly but its a step in the right direction.
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Squishy
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6 Nov 2005, 14:48
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#19
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Ambiguous Anachronism
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 282
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Re: vnc
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartless
More likely a "html, css and javascript supporting Browser".
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is there anything that will actually prevent you from using PA if your browser doesn't support css and javascript? as far as i am aware, those are only making it look a little better (depending on personal point of view ofc ).
so actually it's html and image display capable browser, and images only for bot stopper either. correct me if i'm wrong.
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6 Nov 2005, 19:30
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#20
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the lite shine brite
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Top 10
Posts: 81
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Re: vnc
personally vnc shud be ilegal
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eVil
Last edited by eVil; 6 Nov 2005 at 22:05.
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6 Nov 2005, 21:47
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#21
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Insomniac
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 3,583
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Re: vnc
Quote:
Originally Posted by eVil
personally vnc shud be legal
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and thereby, you forefit any credibility you had, which given your gimmick-like posts, isnt very much.
Mods, kindly look into whos gimmick this is, and ban it pls?
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6 Nov 2005, 22:05
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#22
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the lite shine brite
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Top 10
Posts: 81
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Re: vnc
more of my typo sorry.
it shud be illegal. but how is makin vnc illegal possible? i dont know much on computers but i hear it hard to stop vnc.
pos rep for you phil!
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eVil
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7 Nov 2005, 00:36
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#23
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,174
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Re: vnc
Every time you speak, God kills a kitten.
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If one person is in delusion, they're called insane.
If many people are in delusion, it's called a religion.
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7 Nov 2005, 01:02
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#24
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the lite shine brite
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Top 10
Posts: 81
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Re: vnc
i prefer dog anyway
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eVil
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7 Nov 2005, 05:49
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#25
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Aria's TeddyBear :p
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Rhode Island, USA
Posts: 516
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Re: vnc
Quote:
Originally Posted by Envious
is there anything that will actually prevent you from using PA if your browser doesn't support css and javascript? as far as i am aware, those are only making it look a little better (depending on personal point of view ofc ).
so actually it's html and image display capable browser, and images only for bot stopper either. correct me if i'm wrong.
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i think the javascript is needed not for the login but for fleets page
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7 Nov 2005, 06:08
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#26
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Commodore
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 3,176
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Re: vnc
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doorsdown
i think the javascript is needed not for the login but for fleets page
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But fleets still has those pulldown menus that i use (yes, i am old skool) - unless the lack of java would prevent the whole page from displaying...
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7 Nov 2005, 06:16
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#27
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Aria's TeddyBear :p
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Rhode Island, USA
Posts: 516
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Re: vnc
the whole things java script
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7 Nov 2005, 11:14
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#28
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Ambiguous Anachronism
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 282
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Re: vnc
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doorsdown
the whole things java script
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no it's not. fleet composition works without JS if you use the "classic" interface with the pulldown menus.
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7 Nov 2005, 11:48
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#29
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 846
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Re: vnc
well ppl who needs to cheat in a onlinegame is kinda weak persons, i pity them
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9 Nov 2005, 18:39
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#30
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Jolt's best friend
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,101
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Re: vnc
why not say that the game may require JS, flash, media playing, whatever and then only enable checking on dubious accounts. you've only got to catch them at it once...
that said, did you start port scanning people when they access the login page yet?
of course, it's just as easy to install a web proxy as it is vnc, so all of these solutions will only mean you catch the more inept cheaters.
-mist
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<Karmulian> subtle as a kick in the nuts as always
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9 Nov 2005, 18:54
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#31
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Avenger of Calamari
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Alberta, Canada
Posts: 939
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Re: vnc
Quote:
Originally Posted by eVil
pos rep for you phil!
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Quite possibly the dirtiest pos-rep you've ever received eh Phil? My sympathies.
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9 Nov 2005, 21:54
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#32
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Aria's TeddyBear :p
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Rhode Island, USA
Posts: 516
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Re: vnc
Quote:
Originally Posted by Envious
no it's not. fleet composition works without JS if you use the "classic" interface with the pulldown menus.
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your right i read it wrong when i looking at the html
i thought i saw javascript void(0) in the drop downs too
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9 Nov 2005, 22:21
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#33
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Inactive peon
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,050
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Re: vnc
Quote:
Originally Posted by Envious
is there anything that will actually prevent you from using PA if your browser doesn't support css and javascript? as far as i am aware, those are only making it look a little better (depending on personal point of view ofc ).
so actually it's html and image display capable browser, and images only for bot stopper either. correct me if i'm wrong.
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you are right for the current game..
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