Alliance Blocking

[aNgRyDuCk]

Originally Posted by Kjeldoran

I couldn't agree more with that statement. Tbh I'm abit sick and tired of pple like Angryduck or Chika (he does that also) to look down on a perfectly acceptable and efficient strategy. Just because you're not a blocker or a fool attacking anything that moves, doesn't make you a fencesitter on default.

when an alliance fence sits it's way to #1 and doesn't attack anyone, simply NAP's their way through the round...then tell me it's an efficient strategy

Originally Posted by Kjeldoran

The essential about fencesitting is napping/allying both sides in a war. And tbh, if NOS napped Exi and later on 1up, then 1up was fully aware of the fencesitting intentions and by napping NOS, they agreed to it ... quite lame to point a finger at fencesitters when you nap with them yourself.

in r 13, no one expected NoS to play the NAP game with everyone, all alliances expected each to pull their weight... NoS obviously had other ideas. In addition.... NoS napped Exi AFTER they napped the alliances in that particular block, you got it bass ackwards. Fencesitting doesn't require formal NAP's or even any communication.......

[aNgRyDuCk]

Originally Posted by Grog

We didn't hit either? Bullshit, we hit both regularly.
Accusing us of fence sitting is ridiculous.

we didn't have a lot of ND incoming, if you consider what we had from everyone else, no idea what LCH had, I do know however that you guys came to us twice about hitting LCH because they had "pissed you off" and then you backed out right before it was supposed to happen.. I'm sure Gate will verify that... I've no idea what went on in your conversations with LCH....

edit: I actually believe we saw more incoming from ToF and F-Crew than we did from ND to be honest.....

[Kjeldoran]

Originally Posted by mazzelaar

Not arrogance in the slightest. He's simply telling it how it is.

1up falling apart is nothing short of dreamworld. We had a couple of days in the red but nothing more. Yes, LCH had a roidlead but wtf does that matter?

If we want to talk ab out arrogance then let's take Grogs statement:

"If we had decided to hit you instead of LCH you wouldn't have won". I don't think that would've last terribly long would it? I think we already saw how ND managed to cope with being focussed on by 1up.

1up have coped with far worse incoming than we got this round. To say we were falling apart is nothing more than wishful thinking and plain rubbish.

the arrogance was in the part where he boasted about how other alliances are incompetent in hurting 1up. I didn't even mention anything about 1up falling apart ... dunno where you get that from ...

[aNgRyDuCk]

Originally Posted by Kjeldoran

the arrogance was in the part where he boasted about how other alliances are incompetent in hurting 1up. I didn't even mention anything about 1up falling apart ... dunno where you get that from ...

no alliance dealt us any serious blows... again, simply a fact. We gained roids and score damn near every night of the round...we're in the red maybe 5 nights all round (usually on Sundays because everyone was hammered or passed out...lol) you can call it arrogance if you like, could care less...end of the day, it's simply a true accounting of what happened

[mazzelaar]

Originally Posted by Kjeldoran

the arrogance was in the part where he boasted about how other alliances are incompetent in hurting 1up. I didn't even mention anything about 1up falling apart ... dunno where you get that from ...

I was referring to both yours and Grogs post at the same time.

He also never mentioned the word incompetent. If you want evidence of the inroads made into 1up then feel free to check the history through Sandmans. What he's claiming, however you think the delivery to be, are irrefutable facts.

[Kjeldoran]

Originally Posted by mazzelaar

I was referring to both yours and Grogs post at the same time.

He also never mentioned the word incompetent. If you want evidence of the inroads made into 1up then feel free to check the history through Sandmans. What he's claiming, however you think the delivery to be, are irrefutable facts.

I don't agrue the fact that you won fair and square and again were the best alliance ... but the little to no respect for the alliances you fought is literally dripping off the posts made by some.

He made it sound like this round was piss easy for 1up ...

He didn't need to use the word "incompetent" while he meant exactly that ...

[Kjeldoran]

Originally Posted by aNgRyDuCk

We gained roids and score damn near every night of the round...we're in the red maybe 5 nights all round (usually on Sundays because everyone was hammered or passed out...lol)

It is a well known fact that only 1up members have a social life on sunday evenings ... you actually reading the stuff you write?

[mazzelaar]

Originally Posted by Kjeldoran

I don't agrue the fact that you won fair and square and again were the best alliance ... but the little to no respect for the alliances you fought is literally dripping off the posts made by some.

He made it sound like this round was piss easy for 1up ...

He didn't need to use the word "incompetent" while he meant exactly that ...

What a load of tripe. You're simply trying to twist facts being stated into something crap to start a lameass argument on AD.

He didn't make it sound piss easy at all. If you'd bothered to read it properly he said we had it quite difficult but managed to cover our incomings well (3100 or so). At no point did he disrespect any other alliance. Stop trying to turn this into something it isn't. 1up won, we had it tough at times, we've had it tougher before. Thats it, end of story.

[Stifler]

Originally Posted by Grog

I love ya Duck, but yer full of crap.

We didn't hit either? Bullshit, we hit both regularly.
Accusing us of fence sitting is ridiculous.

If we didn't hit 1up as much as we hit LCH, it was only because we were worried that with just a little more pressure 1up would fold up & dissapear for the round.

Yes a couple times ND told 1up we'd be hitting LCH on a night & then a diplomatic solution was reached before we actually hit them hard.
Too bad, keeping 1up happy wasn't really our concern.

You guys all seem to forget how close 1up was to falling apart.

You guys got extremely lucky with Insomnia & then LCH falling apart before you did, but it was a damned close thing.

We tried to walk a tight rope, keeping LCH & 1up fighting each other, it didn't turn out as we hoped it would, but this rnd EASILY could of been tipped the other way & we'd be putting up with arrogant crap like this from LCH instead of from 1up.

so you were playing both sides of the fence to see which would be the best to fall on? but the fence post was stuck so far up your arse it wouldnt dislodge to allow this to happen

The only reason you had to hit 1up in the end was everyone on the other side of the fence to 1up had to disband for the round, so 1up moved to the fence for action/roids.

Nice of you to confirm that you played both sides so next time I have the choice to work with ND I wont trust them as I can throw them

[Chika]

I never said that the tactic was a "fencesitting" tactic. I was leaning more towards "Bitch play". Fencesitting is so over used. Pa has evolved, the level of cowardice has evolved also.

[Chika]

Originally Posted by aNgRyDuCk

no alliance dealt us any serious blows... again, simply a fact. We gained roids and score damn near every night of the round...we're in the red maybe 5 nights all round (usually on Sundays because everyone was hammered or passed out...lol) you can call it arrogance if you like, could care less...end of the day, it's simply a true accounting of what happened

Thats not exactly true duck. ND attacked us the last 2 weeks after it was clear 1up won the round, and most of us were inactive. They were owning us.
Good tactics and fluid politics at its best.

[lokken]

The only reason such a large lead came to be is due to a full month of roiding where you tossed off ND mega pot of high XP roids. What kind of other lead would you expect? Personally I'd look to August and see that a large chunk of opposition buggering off, your chief threat being unable to attack you and your only NAP doubling in size and hitting your chief threat (and losing but condemning their chances) as pretty fortunate if you are 1up, but everyone seems to gloss over that. 1up's ability was allowed to shine through, which meant ND got beat, which is a fair cop really. I don't see anything of contention in that paragraph that would overly upset anyone, I think that this is what Kjeldoran is at the very least intimating towards.

I'm wondering why 1up expect ND of r14 to care about what fights 1up think ND should be fighting. I think it's better to pick your own. ND just have to focus on getting their alliance better and get some more guns to back up their politics.

As ever duck is doing the 1up block recruiting by bleating "fencesitting, fencesitting" - all I can say is smaller alliances are damn right to know their limits of ability and exploit yours as much as possible. Fighting on your terms is a surefire way to coming 2nd. Fighting on your own at least gives you some slim chance of success when you aren't as good as 1up. And being able to compete with 1up is what really matters - ND are still quite a distance away.

I'm just waiting some kind of moral high ground post around the start of round 15 from one of 1up or Exilition. It may or may not amuse me.

[lokken]

Originally Posted by Stifler

so you were playing both sides of the fence to see which would be the best to fall on? but the fence post was stuck so far up your arse it wouldnt dislodge to allow this to happen

The only reason you had to hit 1up in the end was everyone on the other side of the fence to 1up had to disband for the round, so 1up moved to the fence for action/roids.

Nice of you to confirm that you played both sides so next time I have the choice to work with ND I wont trust them as I can throw them

Outrage! Alliance in making agreement for its own benefit shocker!

This forum gets better every day.

[Chika]

Originally Posted by lokken

The only reason such a large lead came to be is due to a full month of roiding where you tossed off ND mega pot of high XP roids. What kind of other lead would you expect? Personally I'd look to August and see that a large chunk of opposition buggering off, your chief threat being unable to attack you and your only NAP doubling in size and hitting your chief threat (and losing but condemning their chances) as pretty fortunate if you are 1up, but everyone seems to gloss over that. 1up's ability was allowed to shine through, which meant ND got beat, which is a fair cop really. I don't see anything of contention in that paragraph that would overly upset anyone, I think that this is what Kjeldoran is at the very least intimating towards.

I'm wondering why 1up expect ND of r14 to care about what fights 1up think ND should be fighting. I think it's better to pick your own. ND just have to focus on getting their alliance better and get some more guns to back up their politics.

As ever duck is doing the 1up block recruiting by bleating "fencesitting, fencesitting" - all I can say is smaller alliances are damn right to know their limits of ability and exploit yours as much as possible. Fighting on your terms is a surefire way to coming 2nd. Fighting on your own at least gives you some slim chance of success when you aren't as good as 1up. And being able to compete with 1up is what really matters - ND are still quite a distance away.

I'm just waiting some kind of moral high ground post around the start of round 15 from one of 1up or Exilition. It may or may not amuse me.

The thing is noone said Newdawn. You guys just walked into the police station and turned yourselves in. This thread was started addressing every alliance, and seeiny the communities take on it. No, I do not want ANY Hc/alliance to base thier tactics on anything stated in this thread, because a lot of people showed how truely blinded they are, and the blind leading the blind....

ND may have jumped on the defensive because they did something similar to some of the crap/low tactics stated. Noone said "ND" though.

Another point that I was addressing, is that alliances that "claim" to be top allies are not aiming to be top. Like you just stated in this paragraph above "Fighting on your terms is a surefire way to coming 2nd." ???? Who the **** aims for second? It seems your tactic is to go into the round and set yourself up to get twatted by the #1 allaince (the winner of any major war). "But we ended second". Thats just garbage logic imho. Blocking, would give alliances like Newdawn a better chance of getting #1 than solo/napping would do. Its been tested. Nos first. They finished 3rd. ND, they finished second (if lch/insomnia wouldn't have died would have been 4th or so.) And think of your members. I am a member of an allaince. If my HC's plan was to sit out any major fights, build my confidence up and make me think that I am actually good at the game, then with 1 month of the round left to just let planets VERY smaller than I roid me at will, and knock me from top 20 to top 60-100, I would think he was crap, and surely didn't deserve someone as diligent as I fighting for him.

[mazzelaar]

Originally Posted by lokken

Outrage! Alliance in making agreement for its own benefit shocker!

This forum gets better every day.

I blame the Mods

[SkyHead]

Originally Posted by Kjeldoran

I couldn't agree more with that statement. Tbh I'm abit sick and tired of pple like Angryduck or Chika (he does that also) to look down on a perfectly acceptable and efficient strategy. Just because you're not a blocker or a fool attacking anything that moves, doesn't make you a fencesitter on default.

PA has evolved to a game where each alliance picks his fights and wars.

The essential about fencesitting is napping/allying both sides in a war. And tbh, if NOS napped Exi and later on 1up, then 1up was fully aware of the fencesitting intentions and by napping NOS, they agreed to it ... quite lame to point a finger at fencesitters when you nap with them yourself.

Chika and Angryduck, don't take this personal ... but most pple don't even know the meaning of fencesitting and ALOT of alliances seem to criticize them YET NAP them or support them.

From what you and lokken say, everyone should just mind their own business, and doing whats best for themselves, if this is what everyone was doing, I think we'd have a rather boring round, hitting galaxies entire round wouldn't be an decent option imho.
After some while, we'd have double, triple, quadruple bookings on galaxies, simply because all the other galaxies are to roid dry, because there are some planets who has the roids, with a great alliance that never gets alot of incs, so they can easily cover the randomly incs they have.

So what would be best then? We'd have rank1 best roiders(maybe just most lucky?) rank2 second best roiders, etc. And it'd clearly be more profitable to hit an ally thats below you in rank, because you have slim chances of taking out an ally with more value then yourself, without help? So we'd have a chain effect of the roids moving from top10 and their way upto rank1 ally.

I know this is set a bit on the edge, but this is what in some form or another that'd be happening. If everyone went around minding their own business, I see no reason for EXilition nor 1up for bashing the shits out of eachother while everyone else races away, who says EXilition and 1up HAS to go to war on eachother? Do you really think the two best HC's in the game would let this happen? One of the things I admire of both HCs is their ability to adapt to the new and current situation.

And how can you write this sh*t and still call Planetarion a war game?
This imho simply can't happen with a 3k playerbase, if we even reach that many.
- This would for sure also affect newer players, aswell as lower ranked allies, as they'd be targetted more.

The way I see it (fkn biased view thoz) your both simply trying to excuse your alliances behaviour on the political field, you have both intentially stayed away from "the war", watching your own business hoping you can benefit as much as possible from the war, aswell as outroiding the rest of the universe. I'd say this is also something that more or LESS (<-) affects the smaller alliances of the game, aswell as randomly players without allies.

You were hoping to reach #1, and be unstoppable when you first reached it, thus win the round by avoiding several wars, napping some of the allies and as you say just "minding your own business" aaaalll the way to the precious rank1.
If you absolutely need to stay out of the war between EX and 1up, can't you atleast fight your own wars? Isn't that what this game is all about?

I don't know how its for you, but PA wouldn't be the same without waking up, jgp ing, seeing your through ETA2 and landing on 1up(them evil noob bashers, your worst enemy, them people you'd rather flame on the boards then talk to IRC, jk ;-P )

Can't you grasp the fact, and admit that you really are just doing it because 1up\EXil are better then you, and you were hoping to get a lead by playing smart tactics?
When you think about it, maybe this is exactly why 1up and EXil are doing better then you, they both give their members an enemy to bash and hate, this gives plenty more meaning then just capping some dudes asteroids, and bashing the sh*ts out of his ships and constructions(whats the fun in that when its not even your enemy?) .

No more excuses, play the game for what it is, a wargame (would this definition of war be wrong?; two opposing sides fighting)

So what wars did either of you exactly fight during your rounds?
Do you expect 1up\EXil (the most adaptable allies in the game, NO DOUBT, maybe pride can stop it thoz, you can always hope) to continue fighting while the entire universe races away and dont give a shit about their war?

Some call you cowards, you say you played tactically smart.
But who says a coward isn't smart? Atleast, if you need to absolutely stay out of the war, go make your own wars, I'm sure it'd lift AD several times if we had more then 1 war going on, and to the ND HC, ask your friends in Angels if you gain more XP by fighting a war.
Round13 Angels had almost equally value avg to what EXil had, but yet we won with 50mio more score or so?
No doubt Angels just built their ships as the round went on, while EX continued to lose/buy back more ships whilst also picking on bigger targets.
No doubt I'd say ND have done more or less the same this round, if you say otherwise, please make number of NAPs (including the nap, cancel nap, nap again tactics of yours) publicly known?

No my dear friends, you both tried to ride a fencewave as best as you possibly could for the best chances of a rank1, and you both failed. And I can't deny that makes me glad ;-)

I fear I have much more respect for WP/HR's run in round13 as if either of the allies joined in an block, which they had already created between themselves, that would greatly imbalance the war.






Fencesitters.

[Stifler]

Originally Posted by lokken

Outrage! Alliance in making agreement for its own benefit shocker!

This forum gets better every day.

Yet ND (amoung others.. ) complained about NOS dowing this R13 and then ND do a similar thing R14.


Can anyone guess the word that springs to mind when i think of ND.....

[lokken]

Originally Posted by Chika

It seems your tactic is to go into the round and set yourself up to get twatted by the #1 allaince (the winner of any major war). "But we ended second". Thats just garbage logic imho. Blocking, would give alliances like Newdawn a better chance of getting #1 than solo/napping would do. Its been tested. Nos first. They finished 3rd. ND, they finished second (if lch/insomnia wouldn't have died would have been 4th or so.) And think of your members. I am a member of an allaince. If my HC's plan was to sit out any major fights, build my confidence up and make me think that I am actually good at the game, then with 1 month of the round left to just let planets VERY smaller than I roid me at will, and knock me from top 20 to top 60-100, I would think he was crap, and surely didn't deserve someone as diligent as I fighting for him.

So ND did better than NoS and I suggested ND needed to improve further to be able to compete with the big lads more. I don't see how I was wrong there. The better part is that we did it off our own initiative, rather than due to some other alliance's success. Infact we arguably didn't play as well as round 12, yet got a better ranking.

I think you'll find most ND members not giving a stuff who we fight - you're all hostile planets at the end of the day if we don't have an agreement with you. We just get on with ND's business. Had we napped 1up or LCH from the off you can bet your life their goons/BG's would have come and paid us a visit first to build up strength against the other side.

So I think learning to play your own game and getting better is very important. Very important indeed. 1up play their own game. Exilition play their own game. So why shouldn't we take the plunge and gamble a bit.

[lokken]

Originally Posted by Stifler

Yet ND (amoung others.. ) complained about NOS dowing this R13 and then ND do a similar thing R14.


Can anyone guess the word that springs to mind when i think of ND.....

I wasn't in ND in round 13 - infact while calling them cowardy-custards I gave them some sneaking respect from memory for being so damn slippery and awkward. NoS are bastards, but they're damn good at it. I said that while it was "incoming averse", there was nothing wrong with it, it was quite smart for an alliance of their quality.

I won't be in ND for r15.

So find someone else to pin the tail on the donkey on. No commitments means I can shoot my mouth off, and I don't have to hold back on anything as far as I'm concerned.

[Gio2k]

Originally Posted by Grog

If we didn't hit 1up as much as we hit LCH, it was only because we were worried that with just a little more pressure 1up would fold up & dissapear for the round.

This comment made me smile.



No, it made me ROTFLMFAO.

[Stifler]

Originally Posted by lokken

I wasn't in ND in round 13 - infact while calling them cowardy-custards I gave them some sneaking respect from memory for being so damn slippery and awkward. NoS are bastards, but they're damn good at it. I said that while it was "incoming averse", there was nothing wrong with it, it was quite smart for an alliance of their quality.

I won't be in ND for r15.

So find someone else to pin the tail on the donkey on. No commitments means I can shoot my mouth off, and I don't have to hold back on anything as far as I'm concerned.

I wasnt pointing at you, was more at ND command in general, therefore the point still stands. They (rather then you since you aint ND now) bitched at NOS r13, then do a similar thing r14 and get "hurt" when they are moaned at in the same way.

[Zh|l]

Originally Posted by Grog

I love ya Duck, but yer full of crap.

We didn't hit either? Bullshit, we hit both regularly.
Accusing us of fence sitting is ridiculous.

If we didn't hit 1up as much as we hit LCH, it was only because we were worried that with just a little more pressure 1up would fold up & dissapear for the round.

Yes a couple times ND told 1up we'd be hitting LCH on a night & then a diplomatic solution was reached before we actually hit them hard.
Too bad, keeping 1up happy wasn't really our concern.

You guys all seem to forget how close 1up was to falling apart.

You guys got extremely lucky with Insomnia & then LCH falling apart before you did, but it was a damned close thing.

We tried to walk a tight rope, keeping LCH & 1up fighting each other, it didn't turn out as we hoped it would, but this rnd EASILY could of been tipped the other way & we'd be putting up with arrogant crap like this from LCH instead of from 1up.

Funny how NewDawn keeps on changing it's story and reasoning for it's actions. During my meeting with NewDawn HC, your alliance was quite avid on the fact 1up was fine and the war was very fair with LCH/Insomnia/Hydra against 1up.

There is a big difference between losing and collapsing. Even then, losing one part of the round does not always equal a complete loss - 1up expected to be outnumbered and outgunned from the start.

It was in NewDawn's best interests for their to be no victor - plus you didn't want to actually get involved in any war so don't attempt to make it sound like you were doing anyone a favour bar yourselves. If NewDawn had sided with the enemy block, we would never have seen NewDawn get to the position it was in. 1up did not hit LCH every night - alot of people on these boards seem to think 1up and LCH have some great vendetta that results in them hitting eachother every single night.

I believe Insomnia backed off somewhat after 1up concentrated on it for a few nights and it looked like it was getting neither 1up or Insomnia anywhere. That was purely in Insomnia's benefit (as why should Insomnia have taken the flak for LCH to win?) and was before any collapse from them. They also had problems with Hydra.

I know NewDawn couldn't 'care' to what others think of their actions but that's fine, the real crux of the issue with NewDawn for this round was your lies and lack of committment. You sided with 1up then backed off without telling us, then cut a deal with LCH, then sided with 1up again and once more backed out (without telling us). You were unreliable and that will show as a trait for your alliance. That's the 'bad' stuff from you - I don't like your 'tactics' but then I can't imagine what it's like to know you're inferior to other alliances so must accept it is a perfectly valid tactic for your position, but it was the total unrealiablity to follow through with spoken deals that brought my removal of respect for NewDawn this round. You don't need to keep anyone happy, but deliberately backing out of deals without the decency to tell them first is what I consider poor relations.

Lastly for those that doubt 1up/Exilition or 1up/LCH could never reach a short term deal are shortsighted. The only reasons we've never had deals in the past is due to the fact the position of #1 was open to either at the time - I personally don't believe irrational hatred will prevent any deal if needed if another alliance looks to be getting ahead.

[Kjeldoran]

Originally Posted by SkyHead

From what you and lokken say, everyone should just mind their own business, and doing whats best for themselves, if this is what everyone was doing, I think we'd have a rather boring round, hitting galaxies entire round wouldn't be an decent option imho.
After some while, we'd have double, triple, quadruple bookings on galaxies, simply because all the other galaxies are to roid dry, because there are some planets who has the roids, with a great alliance that never gets alot of incs, so they can easily cover the randomly incs they have.

So what would be best then? We'd have rank1 best roiders(maybe just most lucky?) rank2 second best roiders, etc. And it'd clearly be more profitable to hit an ally thats below you in rank, because you have slim chances of taking out an ally with more value then yourself, without help? So we'd have a chain effect of the roids moving from top10 and their way upto rank1 ally.

I know this is set a bit on the edge, but this is what in some form or another that'd be happening. If everyone went around minding their own business, I see no reason for EXilition nor 1up for bashing the shits out of eachother while everyone else races away, who says EXilition and 1up HAS to go to war on eachother? Do you really think the two best HC's in the game would let this happen? One of the things I admire of both HCs is their ability to adapt to the new and current situation.

And how can you write this sh*t and still call Planetarion a war game?
This imho simply can't happen with a 3k playerbase, if we even reach that many.
- This would for sure also affect newer players, aswell as lower ranked allies, as they'd be targetted more.

The way I see it (fkn biased view thoz) your both simply trying to excuse your alliances behaviour on the political field, you have both intentially stayed away from "the war", watching your own business hoping you can benefit as much as possible from the war, aswell as outroiding the rest of the universe. I'd say this is also something that more or LESS (<-) affects the smaller alliances of the game, aswell as randomly players without allies.

You were hoping to reach #1, and be unstoppable when you first reached it, thus win the round by avoiding several wars, napping some of the allies and as you say just "minding your own business" aaaalll the way to the precious rank1.
If you absolutely need to stay out of the war between EX and 1up, can't you atleast fight your own wars? Isn't that what this game is all about?

I don't know how its for you, but PA wouldn't be the same without waking up, jgp ing, seeing your through ETA2 and landing on 1up(them evil noob bashers, your worst enemy, them people you'd rather flame on the boards then talk to IRC, jk ;-P )

Can't you grasp the fact, and admit that you really are just doing it because 1up\EXil are better then you, and you were hoping to get a lead by playing smart tactics?
When you think about it, maybe this is exactly why 1up and EXil are doing better then you, they both give their members an enemy to bash and hate, this gives plenty more meaning then just capping some dudes asteroids, and bashing the sh*ts out of his ships and constructions(whats the fun in that when its not even your enemy?) .

No more excuses, play the game for what it is, a wargame (would this definition of war be wrong?; two opposing sides fighting)

So what wars did either of you exactly fight during your rounds?
Do you expect 1up\EXil (the most adaptable allies in the game, NO DOUBT, maybe pride can stop it thoz, you can always hope) to continue fighting while the entire universe races away and dont give a shit about their war?

Some call you cowards, you say you played tactically smart.
But who says a coward isn't smart? Atleast, if you need to absolutely stay out of the war, go make your own wars, I'm sure it'd lift AD several times if we had more then 1 war going on, and to the ND HC, ask your friends in Angels if you gain more XP by fighting a war.
Round13 Angels had almost equally value avg to what EXil had, but yet we won with 50mio more score or so?
No doubt Angels just built their ships as the round went on, while EX continued to lose/buy back more ships whilst also picking on bigger targets.
No doubt I'd say ND have done more or less the same this round, if you say otherwise, please make number of NAPs (including the nap, cancel nap, nap again tactics of yours) publicly known?

No my dear friends, you both tried to ride a fencewave as best as you possibly could for the best chances of a rank1, and you both failed. And I can't deny that makes me glad ;-)

I fear I have much more respect for WP/HR's run in round13 as if either of the allies joined in an block, which they had already created between themselves, that would greatly imbalance the war.


Fencesitters.

First of all, there's no single hair on my head that would EVER think 1up or Exilition are better then Angels.

What strikes me is the pretention you have by basicly TELLING other alliances how to play. Who are you, a simple PA player, to dictate what other alliances should or shouldn't do?

Yes, you all should mind your own fking business, just like Angels will mind Angels business and will do whatever is needed to win a round. Does this mean the goal justifies the means ... NO, that is not what I mean !!

Sure you have the right to criticize others, to have your own opinions on the performances of others alliance. You however do NOT have the right to act like a clueless but more importantly hypocritcal shortsightened person by telling others what to do and by (which is worse) calling others fencesitters while exi were the alliance that NAPPED an alliance which had a nap with 1up (or vica versa) ...

By doing that you either accept, agree and support what NOS is doing, knowing they also won't attack the enemy ... or your command is a bunch of retards not able to realize the obvious (sorry Lokken).

You think a soccerplayer gives a fk about whether the public enjoyes the match? No, he cares about winning for his team. Sure he'd like to win AND show great moves, but when he has to chose then he'll chose for the team.
The same goes for alliances. Alliances play for their own gain, if they can combine this with making the round fun for everyone then well done but only stupid alliances would play PA with the soul reason for OTHER alliances to have fun.

I'm not proud that that I just managed to personally attack you, I infact hate doing this ... sorry Lokken if you think I'm out of line here.

[Remy]

Originally Posted by Zh|l

1up has made no plans whatsoever for r15. We haven't even discussed it yet after the revealment of what the galaxy setup is going to be like (and what the exact member count is)

I'd expect most other alliances are being equally lazy right now as we recoup from last round for a good few days.

[]LCH[] has no plans for this either. We're equally lazy , as you point out :P

About the unlikelyhood of LCH napping/allying up for R15, i can only say that every round we reset all politics, having no hard feelings about the past. Conducting politics based on history would make PA even more boring.

Before some of you see this post as a hint that we wud like to approach 1up, i repeat: we have no plans yet.

Remy

[Kjeldoran]

Originally Posted by mazzelaar

I blame the Mods

Don't we all?

[The_Fish]

Originally Posted by SkyHead

No doubt I'd say ND have done more or less the same this round, if you say otherwise, please make number of NAPs (including the nap, cancel nap, nap again tactics of yours) publicly known?

Insomnia approached us about a nap, ND accepted.

We also napped LCH when the only alliances left were Reunion, 1up, LCH and ourselves.

We then cancelled both naps when there was no reason to keep them.

[Zh|l]

Originally Posted by The_Fish

Insomnia approached us about a nap, ND accepted.

We also napped LCH when the only alliances left were Reunion, 1up, LCH and ourselves.

We then cancelled both naps when there was no reason to keep them.

Nice try but we both know his real meaning.

[cypher]

seeing as this is a shit topic anyways and will never make anything real clear....

i say 1up/exi together!!! show who's better at playing instead of getting a group to bash the other one much more fun :P

[Chika]

Originally Posted by The_Fish

Insomnia approached us about a nap, ND accepted.

We also napped LCH when the only alliances left were Reunion, 1up, LCH and ourselves.

We then cancelled both naps when there was no reason to keep them.

This doesn't sound like the fluid politics you and your m8's speak of though fish.

[Neferti]

Why the hell are we talking about roun 14 again? Isn't this supposed to be about next/future rounds?

My earlier point, chika, was that deciding blocks for round 15 before we even know what alliances are playing and what the alliances hope to get out of the round, or anything, is a bit daft.

I suppose it's a bit like trying to decide what the sides would be for WW2 right after WW1 finished (very loose analogy). For example, Japan was on the winning side in WW1 and showed no signs of going over to side with the Germans. The same goes for Italy. The USSR ended up siding with Germany then being stabbed in the back. etc.

[SkyHead]

Originally Posted by Kjeldoran

First of all, there's no single hair on my head that would EVER think 1up or Exilition are better then Angels.

What strikes me is the pretention you have by basicly TELLING other alliances how to play. Who are you, a simple PA player, to dictate what other alliances should or shouldn't do?

Yes, you all should mind your own fking business, just like Angels will mind Angels business and will do whatever is needed to win a round. Does this mean the goal justifies the means ... NO, that is not what I mean !!

Sure you have the right to criticize others, to have your own opinions on the performances of others alliance. You however do NOT have the right to act like a clueless but more importantly hypocritcal shortsightened person by telling others what to do and by (which is worse) calling others fencesitters while exi were the alliance that NAPPED an alliance which had a nap with 1up (or vica versa) ...

By doing that you either accept, agree and support what NOS is doing, knowing they also won't attack the enemy ... or your command is a bunch of retards not able to realize the obvious (sorry Lokken).

You think a soccerplayer gives a fk about whether the public enjoyes the match? No, he cares about winning for his team. Sure he'd like to win AND show great moves, but when he has to chose then he'll chose for the team.
The same goes for alliances. Alliances play for their own gain, if they can combine this with making the round fun for everyone then well done but only stupid alliances would play PA with the soul reason for OTHER alliances to have fun.

I'm not proud that that I just managed to personally attack you, I infact hate doing this ... sorry Lokken if you think I'm out of line here.

I'm not saying what anyone should do, I'm merely stating facts of things that have already happened aswell as bringing forward an hypotesis of what would happen if everyone went on the path of your alliance, this post of lokken being one of main reasons for my original post.

Originally Posted by lokken

NAP 1up or Exilition from the off to gurantee you finishing behind them.

I wouldn't say this either is to tell someone what to do, but it is a provocative post, no doubt.
Ofcourse everyone should mind their own business, and do whats best for each and their own ally. I just thought "minding your own business
Also lets use LCH as an example here, if EXilition hits 1up, it could very well be worth for LCH to tag along, last round both EXi and 1up used their "flak" allies as you like to call them to focuse most power on eachother throughout the round and clearly LCH can benefit from this.

1up is sometimes using the strategy to give an alliance shitloads of incs for a couple of days to try scare them of, this is an tactic I have most respect for as it worked both times I've seen them use it. I'm sure you remember something about 25% losses last round. However its a high stake game for 1up, and things can soon go wrong, and they may have created to many enemies for themselves, but if that ally was hitting them already, hey why not? ;O
And I'm sure they needed some roid refills

Why did EXilition nap NoS when they were napped to 1up?
Are people forgetting we was quite a few less players then 1up already, and if they didn't receive incomings from NoS then why should we when we had our hands full already?
We were simply minding our own business, and doing what was best for us, so how does this exactly show that we support NoS in what they were attempting?
We had a war to fight, they didn't, we didnt justify their actions by accepting the nap, we just took advantage (one 1up already had with being naped to NoS?) with a threat we thought we no doubt could handle later, or wouldnt end up higher then us.
Even 1up took a bite of the sour apple and admitted our HC played a near to perfect political round, so if you feel like going at my commanders for being a bunch of retards, sure go ahead.
[ I'm a peon of the great power of EXil, I speak for why I think my HC did it, it reflects to my personal views only, but if not fully updated, I wouldnt say I was clueless ; ]

Also if you want to have a personal go at me for posting facts of what happened, unlike most of the players which actually doesn't got a clue you can easily handle, thats OK with me to ;-)
I'm sorry if you found my original post offending to yourself, unfortenly I didn't make it so clear but that post was directed at lokken aswell as you. [ND&ANGELS]

[Chika]

Originally Posted by Neferti

Why the hell are we talking about roun 14 again? Isn't this supposed to be about next/future rounds?

My earlier point, chika, was that deciding blocks for round 15 before we even know what alliances are playing and what the alliances hope to get out of the round, or anything, is a bit daft.

I suppose it's a bit like trying to decide what the sides would be for WW2 right after WW1 finished (very loose analogy). For example, Japan was on the winning side in WW1 and showed no signs of going over to side with the Germans. The same goes for Italy. The USSR ended up siding with Germany then being stabbed in the back. etc.

Noone said decide the blocks at this minute Nef. Noone even said use any suggestions of blocks from the thread. The idea is to get a general consensus of what the community thinks of the "You fight, we watch, we play both sides" thing that has been going on." My take on the replies in this thread is that only the "culprits" thinks it is a good idea.

[SkyHead]

Originally Posted by The_Fish

Insomnia approached us about a nap, ND accepted.

We also napped LCH when the only alliances left were Reunion, 1up, LCH and ourselves.

We then cancelled both naps when there was no reason to keep them.

Just curious, how many times were the nap with LCH broken \ reinstated? Ceasefires?
And sorry for expressing myself wrongly, but could you also list all temporal cease fires you had? Especially with Reunion?

[Kjeldoran]

Originally Posted by Chika

Noone said decide the blocks at this minute Nef. Noone even said use any suggestions of blocks from the thread. The idea is to get a general consensus of what the community thinks of the "You fight, we watch, we play both sides" thing that has been going on." My take on the replies in this thread is that only the "culprits" thinks it is a good idea.

2 questions my friend :-)

- Do you actually wanna discuss this with pple who think differently then you?

- More importantly, do you think they respect you or wanna bother wasting their time on you when you keep refering to them with insults and shit like that?

If you genuinly try to set up a discussion, you'd have kept it a neutral post, so all parties could argue in a hostile free thread. But that was not your intention, that's quite obvious.

[Neferti]

Originally Posted by SkyHead

Just curious, how many times were the nap with LCH broken \ reinstated? Ceasefires?
And sorry for expressing myself wrongly, but could you also list all temporal cease fires you had? Especially with Reunion?

I know I'm not fish, but to my knowledge we had one ceasefire with Reunion for a few hundred ticks. And one NAP with LCH which lasted until they died.

What's your point?

[Chika]

Originally Posted by Kjeldoran

2 questions my friend :-)

- Do you actually wanna discuss this with pple who think differently then you?

- More importantly, do you think they respect you or wanna bother wasting their time on you when you keep refering to them with insults and shit like that?

If you genuinly try to set up a discussion, you'd have kept it a neutral post, so all parties could argue in a hostile free thread. But that was not your intention, that's quite obvious.

Negative. My initial post is as general as it could have possibly been. I posted and checked back later, and the discussion about Newdawn specifically had already begun. I never singled them out. I did make a few compliments, but only after they were saying things like, "1up was dying" and " we wanted 1up to live so we didn't hit them"
And it seems you skipped Debate in college. Discussing something is no fun if you know most/everyone agrees,
To reiterate, my initial post was neutral, but the flow of the thread went towards Newdawn defending themselves when obviously they didn't have to. I don't care what they did in rd 14 tbqfh. I do care about how RD 15 turns out though.

[Stifler]

Originally Posted by Neferti

I know I'm not fish, but to my knowledge we had one ceasefire with Reunion for a few hundred ticks. And one NAP with LCH which lasted until they died.

What's your point?

there was at least 2 ceasefires with LCH, lasting 2-3 days each, normally happening after DLR targeted LCH then LCH retaliated and ND lost quite a few roids over a 1-2 day period.

So just looking at LCH thats 2 ceasefires, and 1 nap.

During a discussion with Zhil in 1up private, it seems ND also had a couple of arrangements with 1up also throughout the round, ranging from ceasefire to "attempted" attack cooperation (ND pulling out at the last minute)

After all this comes to light, respect for ND this round has dropped imo

[Kjeldoran]

Originally Posted by SkyHead

I'm not saying what anyone should do, I'm merely stating facts of things that have already happened aswell as bringing forward an hypotesis of what would happen if everyone went on the path of your alliance, this post of lokken being one of main reasons for my original post.



I wouldn't say this either is to tell someone what to do, but it is a provocative post, no doubt.
Ofcourse everyone should mind their own business, and do whats best for each and their own ally. I just thought "minding your own business
Also lets use LCH as an example here, if EXilition hits 1up, it could very well be worth for LCH to tag along, last round both EXi and 1up used their "flak" allies as you like to call them to focuse most power on eachother throughout the round and clearly LCH can benefit from this.

1up is sometimes using the strategy to give an alliance shitloads of incs for a couple of days to try scare them of, this is an tactic I have most respect for as it worked both times I've seen them use it. I'm sure you remember something about 25% losses last round. However its a high stake game for 1up, and things can soon go wrong, and they may have created to many enemies for themselves, but if that ally was hitting them already, hey why not? ;O
And I'm sure they needed some roid refills

Why did EXilition nap NoS when they were napped to 1up?
Are people forgetting we was quite a few less players then 1up already, and if they didn't receive incomings from NoS then why should we when we had our hands full already?
We were simply minding our own business, and doing what was best for us, so how does this exactly show that we support NoS in what they were attempting?
We had a war to fight, they didn't, we didnt justify their actions by accepting the nap, we just took advantage (one 1up already had with being naped to NoS?) with a threat we thought we no doubt could handle later, or wouldnt end up higher then us.
Even 1up took a bite of the sour apple and admitted our HC played a near to perfect political round, so if you feel like going at my commanders for being a bunch of retards, sure go ahead.
[ I'm a peon of the great power of EXil, I speak for why I think my HC did it, it reflects to my personal views only, but if not fully updated, I wouldnt say I was clueless ; ]

Also if you want to have a personal go at me for posting facts of what happened, unlike most of the players which actually doesn't got a clue you can easily handle, thats OK with me to ;-)
I'm sorry if you found my original post offending to yourself, unfortenly I didn't make it so clear but that post was directed at lokken aswell as you. [ND&ANGELS]

Do I feel offended? nah, annoyed would be a better description ...

Why? Because I'm tired of the narrow minded view on politics and the overall generalisation that some pple manage to create. You and some others think in black/white scenario. Either you attack everyone and you're doing good, or you do not join in the big wars and you're a fencesitter.

You and others simply claim that if you don't join the big wars, then you're fencesitting. Yet the same pple claim alliance should play THEIR game rather then doing what OTHERS want them to do ...

Now, so what will it be? This is pure contradicting ... Either you say alliances should play THEIR game and do what's best for THEM ... or you say alliances need to fight, pick a side and cannot stay neutral when a big war is fought.

Which one will it be? Or you gonna stay with both and accept it's a pure contradiction ...

[Kjeldoran]

Originally Posted by Chika

Negative. My initial post is as general as it could have possibly been. I posted and checked back later, and the discussion about Newdawn specifically had already begun. I never singled them out. I did make a few compliments, but only after they were saying things like, "1up was dying" and " we wanted 1up to live so we didn't hit them"
And it seems you skipped Debate in college. Discussing something is no fun if you know most/everyone agrees,
To reiterate, my initial post was neutral, but the flow of the thread went towards Newdawn defending themselves when obviously they didn't have to. I don't care what they did in rd 14 tbqfh. I do care about how RD 15 turns out though.

Then stop pretending you wanna have a discussion and admit you're posting to provoke, upset and troll others.

If you guininly wanted to set up a discussion between pple with exact opposite opinions on this subject (which is fun, and which is perfectly fine and the meaning of AD ...) then you'd have tried to keep it neutral. The second you throw in insults is the second you decided you don't give a fk about the discussion anymore.

Nway, that's how I think about it.

[Zh|l]

Originally Posted by Stifler

there was at least 2 ceasefires with LCH, lasting 2-3 days each, normally happening after DLR targeted LCH then LCH retaliated and ND lost quite a few roids over a 1-2 day period.

So just looking at LCH thats 2 ceasefires, and 1 nap.

During a discussion with Zhil in 1up private, it seems ND also had a couple of arrangements with 1up also throughout the round, ranging from ceasefire to "attempted" attack cooperation (ND pulling out at the last minute)

After all this comes to light, respect for ND this round has dropped imo

For the record there was never a ceasefire with 1up between us two - mainly because we never attacked ND directly until our big attack and the 'war' later on after LCH's defeat. We refused any calls for a ceasefire then and any request to stop and hit Reunion.

The closest was when some ND roided some 1up and ND heard we were fairly pissed about it (through my behaviour to NewDawn people involved) and I had DLR enter talks with myself. It was thought at the time that DLR itself was after a personal NAP with 1up but these talks never progressed too far due to Troll disappearing for work reasons (I believe it was work reasons anyway)

Other than that, on the side of the 1up camp, it was ND's committal to attack (twice) and pulling out (both times) without informing us that irked us.

[The_Fish]

Originally Posted by Stifler

there was at least 2 ceasefires with LCH, lasting 2-3 days each, normally happening after DLR targeted LCH then LCH retaliated and ND lost quite a few roids over a 1-2 day period.

So just looking at LCH thats 2 ceasefires, and 1 nap.

During a discussion with Zhil in 1up private, it seems ND also had a couple of arrangements with 1up also throughout the round, ranging from ceasefire to "attempted" attack cooperation (ND pulling out at the last minute)

After all this comes to light, respect for ND this round has dropped imo

They were not official ceasefires. One was just a 'pull from Lok now, we pull retals, dont target each other tonight'. The other was just a 'dont concentrate on each other agreement'.

The ND pulling out at the last minute was due to Insomnia deciding to cancel our nap. They then changed their mind about an hour later, when a different HC came online, heh.

So here ND is, playing fluid politics throughout the round, attacking former allies, napping former enemies, and still respect for us drops. Oh well, such is life.


edit: The second time we pulled out, I was at Leeds Festival and in vac mode, I don't know details there, as I wasn't involved. I think it was because Reunion suddenly became a big threat and needed to be stopped.

Also, we had a temporary ceasefire with Reunion after we had taken a lot of roids from them.

[SkyHead]

Originally Posted by Kjeldoran

Do I feel offended? nah, annoyed would be a better description ...

Why? Because I'm tired of the narrow minded view on politics and the overall generalisation that some pple manage to create. You and some others think in black/white scenario. Either you attack everyone and you're doing good, or you do not join in the big wars and you're a fencesitter.

You and others simply claim that if you don't join the big wars, then you're fencesitting. Yet the same pple claim alliance should play THEIR game rather then doing what OTHERS want them to do ...

Now, so what will it be? This is pure contradicting ... Either you say alliances should play THEIR game and do what's best for THEM ... or you say alliances need to fight, pick a side and cannot stay neutral when a big war is fought.

Which one will it be? Or you gonna stay with both and accept it's a pure contradiction ...

My narrow minded black/white politics view you say?
I never said YOU SHOULD join the big wars, I even asked if it is not possible to even make your own wars, or atleast do something at all?

Ok, I can in some form agree thats a contradiction, but when someone gives you a finger, you don't take the whole hand. Instead of trying to rip everyone off their roids the simplest way possible, you could try fighting a real war for a change, get some fighter blood in your members, and give them a show.

I hope you won't accuse me for TELLING U WHAT TO DO again, that was only a suggestion, or pinpointer of what my view is.

Also can you start defending your case? instead of finding out where I contradicted myself, or tell me what my view is, which I clearly contradicted in my first post that is not my view.
I'm sure there are alot of annoying posters, but I'm here to discuss it for what it is.

[SkyHead]

Originally Posted by The_Fish

They were not official ceasefires. One was just a 'pull from Lok now, we pull retals, dont target each other tonight'. The other was just a 'dont concentrate on each other agreement'.

The ND pulling out at the last minute was due to Insomnia deciding to cancel our nap. They then changed their mind about an hour later, when a different HC came online, heh.

So here ND is, playing fluid politics throughout the round, attacking former allies, napping former enemies, and still respect for us drops. Oh well, such is life.


edit: The second time we pulled out, I was at Leeds Festival and in vac mode, I don't know details there, as I wasn't involved. I think it was because Reunion suddenly became a big threat and needed to be stopped.

Also, we had a temporary ceasefire with Reunion after we had taken a lot of roids from them.

ND _DID NOT_ play fluid politics this round, getting roids from place a) nap them, getting roids from place b) nap them, and even cases of cancelling the naps, attack them again is not what I believe peoples opinion of fluid politics are, but then again I might be wrong?

[The_Fish]

ND had 2 naps during this round, and broke neither.

[SkyHead]

Originally Posted by The_Fish

ND had 2 naps during this round, and broke neither.

You werent slow to trigger the cease fires though?
Then can you atleast explain to me how exactly did ND play fluid politics this round?
And these "recall from lok, we recall all the retals" deals must be new, in my black and white world that would almost seem as if ND favours their bigger players above the smaller ones, on their way to some happy roids. With almost being the key word.

[Kjeldoran]

Originally Posted by SkyHead

My narrow minded black/white politics view you say?
I never said YOU SHOULD join the big wars, I even asked if it is not possible to even make your own wars, or atleast do something at all?

Ok, I can in some form agree thats a contradiction, but when someone gives you a finger, you don't take the whole hand. Instead of trying to rip everyone off their roids the simplest way possible, you could try fighting a real war for a change, get some fighter blood in your members, and give them a show.

I hope you won't accuse me for TELLING U WHAT TO DO again, that was only a suggestion, or pinpointer of what my view is.

Also can you start defending your case? instead of finding out where I contradicted myself, or tell me what my view is, which I clearly contradicted in my first post that is not my view.
I'm sure there are alot of annoying posters, but I'm here to discuss it for what it is.

As if we did do jack all during r13. Just because YOU don't see it or because WE don't spam AD with it, doesn't mean we didn't fight or anything.

Also, most Angels are FAnG core ... If you recall anything from r7-10 then you could maybe remember that we've fought shitloads of wars and had incomings equal or worse then 1up had to endure (r10, blockwar where all Eclipse, Ely and tot hit us for most of the round - also more players then this round hence more incs).

So proposing to teach our members some real fighting is laughable. I'm confident they have asmuch fighting spirit as any other player has. Sadly we do not play PA to put on a show for you guys.

[SkyHead]

Originally Posted by Kjeldoran

As if we did do jack all during r13. Just because YOU don't see it or because WE don't spam AD with it, doesn't mean we didn't fight or anything.

Also, most Angels are FAnG core ... If you recall anything from r7-10 then you could maybe remember that we've fought shitloads of wars and had incomings equal or worse then 1up had to endure (r10, blockwar where all Eclipse, Ely and tot hit us for most of the round - also more players then this round hence more incs).

So proposing to teach our members some real fighting is laughable. I'm confident they have asmuch fighting spirit as any other player has. Sadly we do not play PA to put on a show for you guys.

Sure thing m8, tell me ONE ally that was reduced because of Angels work.
Also there wasn't a post posted by EXil through entire round13, yet people know very well what we did.

No, I do not recall shit from r7-10 because I simply did not play Planetarion then. But I'm sure you had your greater times, then what it is now. Sometimes a new player has much better fighting spirit then what an old veteran got, I'm not speaking of experience. I know you have very skilled and commited members, I know they can do even better. Infact I'm counting on Angels to be one of the surprise allies for the coming round, that doesn't change past though.

I was requesting u put up an show for your guys, not for our entertainment.

[Alki]

If you want to express feelings about an alliance other than yours, I suggest you express them on the battlefield, rather than making idiotic comments. You want a show? Have a sex change and go live in Thailand

[pig]

Originally Posted by SkyHead

Sure thing m8, tell me ONE ally that was reduced because of Angels work.
Also there wasn't a post posted by EXil through entire round13, yet people know very well what we did.

No, I do not recall shit from r7-10 because I simply did not play Planetarion then. But I'm sure you had your greater times, then what it is now. Sometimes a new player has much better fighting spirit then what an old veteran got, I'm not speaking of experience. I know you have very skilled and commited members, I know they can do even better. Infact I'm counting on Angels to be one of the surprise allies for the coming round, that doesn't change past though.

I was requesting u put up an show for your guys, not for our entertainment.

Im still laughing at that log where you felt the only way to beat 1up was to join the alliance they were napped with. You may have better fighting spirit (although i disaggree) but you certainly dont have the brains that the veterans seem to have. Maybe a few more years in school eh?

[SkyHead]

Originally Posted by pig

Im still laughing at that log where you felt the only way to beat 1up was to join the alliance they were napped with. You may have better fighting spirit (although i disaggree) but you certainly dont have the brains that the veterans seem to have. Maybe a few more years in school eh?

LOL, glad you enjoyed it
Btw I finnished rank 574 or so, this is my best PA rank to date, congrats should be in place no matter what