Round XV Galaxy System

7:4 is the all original nub gal, them ****ers exiled everyone with lower scores than them cos they thought they was gonna win all i can say is roflmffao
****ing elite nubz

Originally Posted by Appocomaster

What do you mean? The asteroid transfer thing that limits the amount of resources you can mine from asteroids? At the moment it's the same as this round

soz i meant the research limit!

[BlueDemon]

As for BPs, 3 or 5, I think you will find the same problems. Used it twice, this round and the last, wasn't impressed. Have also seen where it causes alliance mem overload, so to speak, in some gals.

As for the exiling issue, make it cost em, the planet or the gal, the more it costs the less likely it is to be used, as proven in an earlier post. Used first time this round.

As for the big gets bigger and the small get smaller, maybe that can be worked out in such away that the higher your score the weaker the ships. Not sure if this is workable or not, just an idea.

[Colt]

So because you have bothered to spend time on your planet and have "worked hard" to get high up, you are automatically weakened because the smaller players cba to get themsleves in a position to challenge for higher ranks??? How stupid. If you were to be weakened for getting a good rank, then what is the incentive for getting that rank in the 1st place?

Originally Posted by Colt

So because you have bothered to spend time on your planet and have "worked hard" to get high up, you are automatically weakened because the smaller players cba to get themsleves in a position to challenge for higher ranks??? How stupid. If you were to be weakened for getting a good rank, then what is the incentive for getting that rank in the 1st place?

well when the big constantly bash the smallers planets, what's the incentive to play at all? i don't think weakening the higher ships would be the answer, but try to give the lower planets some extra resources for a couple ticks i guess or something like extra resources for 1 tick, besides the salavage and such

[Colt]

The smaller planets have a bash limit, so therefore the bigger players cannot bash them. Call me elitist if you like, or whatever, but why should ppl who don't spend as much time in their planets get benefits, while the ones who spend time and get big, get penalised for doing so..??? This is a WAR GAME, or maybe you'd just prefer it if it was just all emp ships, so no-one would lose anything

[BlueDemon]

Don't panic, Colt.
As I posted, it was just an idea, it's not cast in stone. And yes, the smaller planets do have a bash limit. However just as soon as they stick their pretty little heads up, by growing some in score, they qualify for another bashing. I can see where it would discourage new players from playing, Nobody enjoys being a feeding ground for, as you put it, the elitist.

[antheon]

I think the main thing is to fix exiles. I was on my honeymoon when the round started so I couldn't be as active that week as I would be the rest of the round. The GC told me he understood this and wouldn't exile me, but the next day I logon to start my next research and "You are being exiled for being inactive." I notice this same galaxy is now in the top 10. The rest of my round has been plauged with self-exiling from one inactive galaxy to the next.

I think some sort of inactive detection algorithm needs to be designed which will allow/dis-allow the exile of each planet in the galaxy based upon the activity in their account.

(# of constructions and frequency of them being built) + (keeping researches going) + building ships + attacks/defense = inactive/active

i think as long as people keep a certain level of activeness they shouldn't be exiled.

[MegaNova]

Originally Posted by antheon

i think as long as people keep a certain level of activeness they shouldn't be exiled.

shouldnt be exiled or cant be exiled?

[Biggin]

Originally Posted by pig

Private Galaxies of 10 people
So would people come back to pa if private galaxies were back? I think yes. Planetarion for me was always about playing with friends, people have more of a motive to play if they have the commitments to play with friends. I also believe it would bring a few more people back from the clones such as p l a n e t i a amongst others.

I completely agree with pig on this point. The lack of interest in PA is growing stronger every round because the "luck" factor of landing in a good galaxy has increased. An extremely active player or bp that lands in a non active gal, is very unfair imo. Just because people make bp's doesn't mean they will be active. Knowing that you are about to dedicate 10 to 12 weeks to sub par play by inactives is very disconcerting to say the least. When PA was really fun, it was with private galaxies, with FRIENDS... friends I knew I could count on and enjoy playing with. It is definitely about motivation and commitment. It's commitment to a level knowing that you can go to sleep and wake up knowing that incoming has been called in and you can be warned and at least have a fighting chance. All who have landed in an inactive gal and let out a collective "sigh" raise your hand. o/

The current setup is 3 members for a bp. Take for example, one of those members has rl issues and has to quit, and another gets bashed, and rendered useless, you are hung out to dry to fend for yourself. Now say this happens to both bp's, then what are you left with? 2 commited players who originally do not have any allegiance or friendship. If this happens with the private 10 member option, at least you have 7 other gal m8s you can rely on. If you lose 2 people you wanted to count on, where's the motivation? Lack of motivation divides galaxies and makes everyone want to quit. It's human nature to conceed when you get your arse beaten down over and over and have no payoff for hard work in sight. I think I can speak for many long term players (me being round 3 myself) that playing PA is about having fun with a group of friends, and going out and roiding the hell out of another group of close friends. Who wants to donate 2 months of their time to other gal members who log on once a day to build ships and FINALLY come on irc when they get incoming? You all know what I am talking about. Placing inactives with committed, dedicated players is why I will eventually quit PA. (of course I say this every round and like an addicted rabid animal, I come back) This trend is very alarming.

Now some of you will say having fully private galaxies discourages new members from playing. Then make it 10 private and 5 random. The priv members can teach the randoms / new players. Just something to outweigh the odds of being penalized for landing in an inactive galaxy.

[antheon]

I would say can't.

We should support the others in our galaxy by getting them to strive to be better and thus make the galaxy better. Just because somone breaks a finger doesn't mean that the doctors will cut it off. . .they will nuture and fix it to make it better. . .the only case in which it is cut off is if the finger no longer functions as a part of the body. The galaxy is the body and each planet is a finger (It would be funny to see a 20 fingered person though, haha).

[Ali]

I would agree with Biggin on many of his points. One being that I think galaxies should be capped at around 15 (which wasn;t his main point) but also the other should be a "10 person buddypack" or atleast maybe a 2 of 5 and options to go random. Bigger buddypacks or private galaxy options with still some randoms would be a much better setup for many reasons (which I can't expound on atm because I'm at work and just trying to reply here very quick).

I understand that this forum is only the "active players" talking which will propogate what is supposidly best for them, but if you allow those 5 randoms to come in th galaxy and make exile much more strict (since with bigger buddypacks exile shoudl be needed less) it should encourage less exiling and allow these 10 players to focus on training these 5 players or whatever

[noah02]

Originally Posted by antheon

I would say can't.

(It would be funny to see a 20 fingered person though, haha).

But i wanted to be a big toe

[coffee-]

I also side with Biggins. Though I think there would have to be some restrictions, such as maybe all free accounts have to be dispersed through out the galaxy evenly, and if a free account is exiled, he can only be replaced by another free account. This way there would be less benefit just randomly exiling anyone that is free, and would force people to train their noobs.

...and I do not wish to be a big toe. Those are usually the ugliest/smelliest of all the digits.

[Biggin]

20 big toes would be fascinating to say the least...

[bwtmc]

One of the things that most holds back this forum is that decisions like this, absolutely key to the game and all the people here are conducted almost exclusively privately by the people instigating the changes - the people making things happen.

When several people with a constructive outlook on the game come to the decision, collectively, that private galaxies should be seriously considered there should be some solid justification as to why it's not an option or why it's not the way to do things.

There's pros and cons to anything like this but I really would like people who are sold on the buddy pack system to really explain the issues at the centre of this in their eyes.

The main reason this game really gained momentum in the first place was that we had a big and intimate community. Take the thousands of players that left out and we still have something of value here, but we lack a structure which allows the players we do have to actually play with each other. If the move was to bring more/old players to the game that would be fantastic - but we should consider above all the effects this'll have on the current playerbase.

[Biggin]

bwtmc, I like where you were going with this... elaborate and give suggestions.

OK ideally we have 3 modes-
the current system (2 packs per galaxy) - but configurable to control buddy pack sizes allowed.
random (0 packs per galaxy) - specify number of paid planets per galaxy, freebies then fill up gals as in current system
private (1 pack per galaxy) - specifiy size of private part of galaxy, paid and free randoms fill up as in current system

Each mode will have different text on preferences screen where buddy pack text currently is - only other differences are in shuffler code.

The suggestion for next round is to use the private galaxy mode with a private size of 4[/quote]


With reference to the above, does this mean ( please be patient as I might sound stupid with this one)

Current system: Buddy Packs might/will be able to configured for say 5+ in a single pack?
Private: the number paid players is requested and I am assuming something like a submitted email or a password type system will be in place, then once the number is filled or the start of the round, the freebies will be shuffled and fill up the rest. Is that right?

[Kargool]

I think the most important issue is to make the galaxies smaller. To avoid multi alliance targeting of galaxies. Maybe set a limit to 15?

[bwtmc]

I think more than anything the ideas behind the new galaxy system need to be established over any numbers. If a player chooses to express they want ten man private galaxies that's great, but it doesn't achieve anything.

Something I said some time ago to a friend of mine on irc:

I started the game before my fifteenth birthday, I was active but not sleepless. My galaxy looked out for me, we looked out for each other. I did what I could to help out, there's only so much you can do with school and the fact that I couldn't wake up at 4am every night. When people stayed on overnight to watch the galaxy, they always had others on to speak to, it was never the terrible chore it is now. I even, and this sounds mad now, had no reason to give out my phone number to any galmates I didn't already know from home. What I miss most isn't the number of players, it's not the changing stats, I endorse everything that's happened in recent rounds, it's the galaxy situation more than anything.

So I look at Planetarion in Round Fourteen and consider that the game doesn't make any attempt to accomodate the player I was those rounds ago, the kind of players (new and old) we need most. I can't see that four man buddy packs will actually change anything, will actually address any of the real problems here. They will however reassure some players, and maybe even excite them, keep them interested for an extra week next round.

[Illuvatar]

Originally Posted by Kargool

I think the most important issue is to make the galaxies smaller. To avoid multi alliance targeting of galaxies. Maybe set a limit to 15?

yeh this would be great! 20 people in a gal are too much in my opinion!

Suggestion: 1 Buddypack + 5 randoms!

Like I said before, I think small private gals (10 friends + 5 other) would be a good solution to bring new players as everyone would try to fill their pack with friends (even friends that never played before) and the 5 random guys could see the fun part of planetarion and could get addicted.
On another level, I think it could be interesting to develop different kind of researches. People might find those quite "boring". For the moment, the tech tree is pretty small: everyone can do all the researches. All the big differences we can find are between “regular” players, scanners or covert op players at the beginning. After we all end up doing researches to mine up to 8000 roids (I don’t think many guys out of 6 10 achieved to reach those).
I think we could think of other kinds of strategies. For example, there could be a research where people could get more and more salvage (%). At the end they could also get salvage by attacking. That would create a new kind of players.
If we had resources stealers, there could also be a research allowing you to get a bigger % of what the guy has (same for the roids?).
I also miss things we had in the early rounds: see who tried to scan us when the scan failed, being able to build def buildings. We could have researches in def building: perhaps only EMP, we could have an advantage when we are defending depending on the number of researches we made (1, 0.9, 0.8, 0.7).
Those may be lame ideas I don’t know...
I think that if a new player tries PA now, he might find it a bit “old” and with the buddy packs system rather than private gals, his odds to fall in a “good spirit” gal, to enjoy the team spirit are pretty small…

[bwtmc]

"I think we could think of other kinds of strategies. For example, there could be a research where people could get more and more salvage (%). At the end they could also get salvage by attacking. That would create a new kind of players."

That's quite an interesting idea, I'd like to see that considered.

I really want to hear some pro-BP opinions, especially from anyone in the PA team who feel we should definitely stick with it.

[coffee-]

Hopefully whatever is chosen, will be finalized soon. People will be going pretty inactive until next round once this one is over. Its nice to have a heads up about major changes.

[Kal]

Originally Posted by coffee-

Hopefully whatever is chosen, will be finalized soon. People will be going pretty inactive until next round once this one is over. Its nice to have a heads up about major changes.

they probably won't have long to be inactive for - next round will ideally start mid October. All details are currently being finalised in preparation for a return of Creator's Hour

[~RevictioN~]

Originally Posted by ~RevictioN~

You get 2 options to choose between .

Priv Gal full of 10 or you can choose to go Buddypacks/Random.

Priv Gal Advanatges :
1. Your playing with friends you know and trust.
2. Galaxy cooperation is very easy.

Priv Gal Disadvantages :
1. No -1 eta to and from alliance m8's
2. No self exile

BuddyPacks/Random Advantages
1. The -1 eta to and from alliance m8's.
2. Self Exile limit to 3 I think

BuddyPacks/Random Disadvantages
1. Your galaxy may suck
2. Galaxy Cooperation may be like pulling teeth


Basically Universe would form from the private galaxys. Buddypacks and Randoms would form into Gals of 10 or close as possible. Id say BP's of 3 or 2.

I think this will make Alliances choose what strategy they will go. As a allaince with 3 Private Gals and 30 members that are BuddyPack/Random will surely get pwned as the private gals are useless to the BP/RANDs and the BP/RANDS are useless to the Private Gals.

So you get a choice of All you eggs in 4 or 5 baskets , Or spread out around the universe. The correct answer might be what wins the rnd for your alliance.

Anyways that came to me late tonight so might be some gaping holes but it sounds fun to me.

SOmeone dicuss if this idea has any merit as private galaxies make it hard for newbies cause of alliances -1 eta to. forcing them to do without the -1 eta if they choose to go fully private will balance that i think. Also noobies should be given a place to go to find more ties in the game like a meeting place mehbe even have a cluster forum to let the noobie get more help. and cluster forum is a great idea IMO.

we should be able to delete our news so its not so easy for people to find out what fleets we got using newsscans maybe they can get lucky iof yo forget to delete your news ?

[cypher]

i'm also wondering why we still can't get serious replies about private gals as alot of people want them and most likely alot of people would return to pa and would make it alot more fun... no-one minds if you add randoms after you put 10 man private gals up first... it's still the best way to go and the most fun...

When will pa team ever listen to the community that plays your game instead of doing what non players want (yes that's you pa team).

least you can do is switch em around... do a 3 man buddypack one round and a 10 man private next...

we've had 3 man buddypack for 2 rounds in a row now and people still complain about galaxies... so how about we try something else now?

[Kargool]

I got a question: when will the PA teams decision be known to the alliances/playerbase?
If you are planning to start in mid oktober, we would like to know how the galaxy is gonna be so we can start preparing for the round instead of late panic as usual..

[antheon]

just think of all the extra money jolt would make through private galaxies. At $15 a pop I would think they could at least make an extra $1000 per round.

Maybe we should tell Jolt directly and then they would force pa team to do it for the revenue.

[bwtmc]

I think something like eight private members and seven randoms would fit in with the playerbase a lot more easily. The key to the success of that setup prescribing that the Total Number is low enough that the group feels a sense of togetherness/closeness and large enough to ensure the small community is active enough to run a galaxy and communicate throughout the day.

It seems logical that randoms should be monitored by the game more closely for activity (and a reason to send to c200), but should be held back from exiling/being exiled so much by the player/galaxy themselves.

[cypher]

yep even 8 private players per gal would be alot better then we have now.

[Viper]

Why not allow the exisiting gals to choose to remain together, as we did in, was it r2?

The gals with some promising new guys can nurture them for another round, and they can stick with knows they know and have grown to trust. I believe this would encourage new people to stick as they will not have to 'do it all again', i.e. finding a gal, making new friends, etc. Anyone not happy with their current gal can so 'no thanks' and re-sign up

To anyone who says "oh, 6:10 in their new co-ords will pwn again" I would say that the allies will know where 6:10 is now as 1up, and so on will know where *their* players are and so where the opposing allies' are, hence give them the chance to keep them down.

Might be interesting to see the top gals this round do from the word go then.

should stop people from hitting people smaller than them i am getting ripped up by people with over a mill score i got half that ****ing lamos spoil teh game

[antheon]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

should stop people from hitting people smaller than them i am getting ripped up by people with over a mill score i got half that ****ing lamos spoil teh game

they already do this you n00b

[Viper]

Well, attacking is capped at 40% value, so firstly score is irrelevent. Maybe he is suggesting the value cap be set higher?

[antheon]

Who knows, he isn't even a registered user so his opinion doesn't count in my book.

[Kal]

to let you all know, after a few days of heated debate within pateam a final galaxy and alliance setup has been decided for round 15, both will be announced in the End of Round Cememony tomorrow. For details on the ceremony as well as havoc and the upcoming speedgame check out www.planetarion.com

[antheon]

why wasn't everybody included in the debate? why is it only pateam that gets to decide. 1:1 is the suckiest galaxy, so they don't even know how to play. Should have had a representative from each galaxy to help decide.

[Kal]

Originally Posted by antheon

why wasn't everybody included in the debate? why is it only pateam that gets to decide. 1:1 is the suckiest galaxy, so they don't even know how to play. Should have had a representative from each galaxy to help decide.

everyone was included in the debate in a way - all of the points made in here were discussed

****ing lame kiddys
half my galaxy have quit cos of wankers like yous lot who bash smalbs
it has to be stopped only be able to hit people of same score/size whatever or bigger se how good all you pro's are then ****ing tossers

[cypher]

lol this has much to do with the thread... but to give you an answer... it's why pa is played with bash limits. and besides that if you aint active you can't expect to be huge and have no incs

i think the bash limit could do with being rased a little to give newbies and late starters a chance to enjoy the game.

i also think slef exiling should be limited, galaxy hoppers are annoying.

[antheon]

galaxy exiles should be limited as well. Elitist attitude galaxies are annoying.

i started late and did well and enjoyed the round

in was also exiled from 7.4 but am now bigger than 5 of them and would be even bigger if i had been in a bigger gal and i only stared about 1000 ticks in

wat the hell is goin on wiv nxt round stats! thy dnt look ne fun.... cnt we stil av all race's cn steal n maybe 1 emp ship?

[rop1964]

personally.. there s 3 things , as a players.. i feel uncorfortable with...

1)the rumor of top alliance working together . in nap (non-aggression pack) or as allies... i understand that sometimes you may not want to attack this or that planets.. but the idea (for exemple ) of seeing 1up work with lch as allies would bother me alot.. as it mean top alliance could decide how the game may go as it develop...

2)if players decide to work as a group.. they should stick with their decision no matter how good or bad things get , which mean , pack of 5 planet (block or other should be sticking to their gal , no matter what.. though i thing finding a similar (not higher or lower) planet to replace one that would be "disable" seem good... same if a galaxy get multiple 3 pack groups..

3) the "bashing" limit.. at 40%+ of a planet value is simply inviting big planet to ignore experience and score for easy roiding, or ship captures.. too many time i saw planet of 2mil+ attack ppls of half or lower their value only to get 50-100 roids , or to gain ships (often followed by struckture killers), hince making a game a real hell of the average/weak player. something must be rethought to prevent the "vulturing" of players.. same with multiples waving of a planet.. having a planet getting 12 waves in 13 hours is just as sure to kill the interest of a player to play , as getting rape...

but i think buddy pack of 5 , 3 and random all have their merits.. but i still stay .. if you re getting 5 player together to have your own private gal.. then you re stuck with it...

and i like the limitation put on exiling and self exiling.. hat will disciplined galaxy and players alike..

[rop1964]

i like the idea of redesigning the race to give them a more distinct outlook... as unregistered has proposed
here the way i see the race (personal views only)

cathaar using emp , hate killing, loving peace and prosperity...
they d gain a bonus of 25% on firepower when defending at base.. (planetary generators transfering power to ships?!) +2 on research , +5% on ressource transfer , shielding tech (-10% on damage received)

xandrathis cunning/stealthy race all covert ops get a bonus of 10% on succes (using cloaking technology)
25% a scan of their planet get wrong or no info (cloaking the planet) -2 on production (building stealth ships is hard) first first as they uncloak and surprise their ennemy (only if attacking)

terran warlike and proud +10% on mining , production time 2 tick faster, covert op security +5%, covert op agents -15% (paranoid race) slowly bulky ship (high init)

zikonian (nanorobotic lifeforms) +5% on mining, -15% on all covert op/security ,construction 10% faster,
research +5% (being nanorobots mean being computerised .. so faster and more efficient) -10% to armor and damage vs cathaar based weapons (electromagnetic pulse are bad to computer being robot)

that s how i see the race interaction and the suggest modification..

and to respond to cypher.. you may have been all for for the 40%+ cap , probably cause you were shielded by your alliance and galmate.. but 80% of the player were not so lucky.. and when they saw a guy coming from a planet 2 to 3 time their value.. they knew they could not do anything but run or get destroyed.. and when that happen on a regular basis, you kill the fun and the desire of players to continue playing.. it s not a matter of being active or not.. it s a matter of fairplay... you must the kind to say.. "hehehe.. easy roids/ship.. let swarm him with 5k cr.. with 100 struct killer for good mesure" kind of guy.. guys like you are a nuisance with that kind of attitude.. as all you see is easy gain and not fun or fairplay...

[antheon]

/me agrees with Rop1964

Maybe a small thing in calculation of battles:
When someone is attacking people only 40% of their only value, the chance of stealing ships/roids or killing ships/buildings should be almost equally to 0. The bigger targets you pick, the more chance on succes of operation.