[Advice] Design as Career

[Androme]

I'm looking to pursue my career in the design industry. I've just found out that about 99% of my previous works done on my computer are not going to be good because of the fact they were designed at good resolutions for the web and not necessarily good for the print industry which I would have to follow the rules of (300 DPI, CMYK/Pantone colours etc.) which is probably common knowledge to most. I do have a sketchbook or two to help with my portfolio but I need some pointers to do with a few things.

Anyway, I've bought a book or two in design - not tutorial based, more theory and communication based. The thing is, I'm not quite sure where to start in terms of how to prepare my work in the future for the print industry and various types of mediums such as business cards, CD covers, magazines etc. such as the right dimensions and how to go about making them.

From my basic research I know InDesign & Illustrator are two programs I have very little if any knowledge of but have discovered they are very important in relation to the path I wish to pursue (I'm not interested in Quark Xpress or any other programs for now).

I already wasted a year doing a multimedia engineering course and computer science and found neither of these to be as fulfilling as design. I've already added 2 years of the new £3000 tution fees system including the enormous loans that are added on top so I have some reserve about whether I should apply to a design uni particuarly the University of the Arts London --> London College of Communication (LCC) as they also have the new tution fees system. The courses that have caught my eye is Design for Advertising and Design for Print.

I need guidance on the following:

** Anyone know any good places to start to learn InDesign & Illustrator - particuarly websites, books, magazines etc.? I don't want your bog standard tutorials websites that teaches you the very basics.

** Whether I should apply for one of the graphic media courses at LCC as mentioned earlier or whether I should just teach myself?

** Where I should search aside from Google, for companies that offer design internships for entry (non-degree) level designers.

** Any 'trusted' places that offer business card printing.

** The right dimensions for business cards including bleed dimensions in this country as Wikipedia gives me different dimensions compared to a few other websites I have looked at.

Thanks for any help guys.

[Ultimate Newbie]

I'm sorry, my knowledge and fields are completely distinct from the world of arts, so i cant answer your questions though.

I wish you all the best!

How are your university fees structured? It sounds similar to that in Australia which has HECS (ie, you defer your payment of funds as the commonwealth pays the university. THen when you get a job and reach a certain pay level, part of your income is skimmed off the top to repay your interest-free loan). Its a good system. What 's the 3000pound fee?

[Androme]

Yah it's similar to that. We pay £3000 (well actually £3070) for tution fees (for lecturers teaching you, attending seminars, sitting exams etc.) but I also applied for maintenance loan so I can survive the year for full amount. So when I start earning I have around £17k of debt that will slowly be taken off my salary when I start earning over £15,000. This debt will be cleared if I do not earn that amount or over for 25 years or by the 25th year if I haven't had it all covered, the remaining debt gets cancelled.

[Ultimate Newbie]

So, is that maintenence loan from the government charging 0 interest, or from some private firm?

So, 3000pounds is essentially your uni tuition fees for that semester for all four units?

[Veedeejem!]

Originally Posted by Androme2

I need guidance on the following:

** Anyone know any good places to start to learn InDesign & Illustrator - particuarly websites, books, magazines etc.? I don't want your bog standard tutorials websites that teaches you the very basics.

I would advise you following a course to learn Indesign & Illustrator. Both of them can seem pretty easy, especially once you've gotten the hang of it, but they both have alot of usefull features that never or hardly ever get mentioned in the online tutorials.
Basicly, if you want to learn how to do it properly & effecient, take a course & don't follow the internet.

Originally Posted by Androme2

** Whether I should apply for one of the graphic media courses at LCC as mentioned earlier or whether I should just teach myself?

Like I said above, I would recommend you to follow a course. Unfortunatly I'm not from England so I don't know what level of education LCC offers.
When chosing a course there is 1 very important thing you need to keep in mind: Do you want to follow the more art oriented course in the hope of being a designer or do you want to take the more tech approach where you learn the ins & outs of the programs and how to do everything right for printing.
Personally I chose to do the more technical course and I don't regret it.

Originally Posted by Androme2

** Where I should search aside from Google, for companies that offer design internships for entry (non-degree) level designers.

Again, I'm not from the UK so I may be completly wrong but over here in Belgium there isn't that much places hiring even graduated designers and if they do they require a minimum of 5 years experience in the job. So if the UK is anything like here I doubt you'll find an internship anywhere tbh.

Originally Posted by Androme2

** The right dimensions for business cards including bleed dimensions in this country as Wikipedia gives me different dimensions compared to a few other websites I have looked at.

Thanks for any help guys.

Standard size for a bussiness card (in milimeter): 85 width & 55 height.
Bleed dimensions standards are usually between 3 and 5 milimeter. The amount of bleed usually depends on the printer, some prefer 3 milimeter, some prefer 5, ...


If you are really serious about wanting to become a designer I really suggest you take a course.
Key programs to focuss on are Indesign, Illustrator & Photoshop.
Even if you allready know some of these programs I would still encourage you to take a course.
Alot of people claim to know photoshop, but when you need to use photoshop for printing there are ALOT of stuff different than making things for the web. For the web the only thing you need to keep in mind is if it looks good on your screen, for printing this is completly different.

Anyway, I hope I haven't discouraged you in any way, I'll just end with one last statement: when you do get a degree and find a decent job etc etc, It's probably the best job in the world

[Tomkat]

Have you tried contacting publishing/design companies and asking for some work experience or similar? That might help.

[Androme]

One company suggested I get a diploma if I do not want to go through the full 3 year degree programme although they would prefer the idea I "paid" my way with knowledge. Heh.

http://www.lcc.arts.ac.uk/courses/gr...ic_design.htm#

http://www.lcc.arts.ac.uk/courses/pr...roduction.htm#

These are two diplomas - aka "ABC". They're just over a £1000 for a year's course with the first one being apparently quite intensive over several fields. The print one seems quite good.

What do people think?

[Texan]

If you learn how to use InDesign, Photoshop and Illustrator, you will be a design technician. If you get a degree in design and learn those programs you will be a designer. I have known a lot of people who know design software. I also know quite a few people with design degrees.

Unless you have great inherent analytical capabilities, you will be a much better designer after spending a few years with design professors explaining to you why something looks good and why something looks bad.

The software is just a tool. Being a designer doesn't mean learning how to use the tools. It means understanding why something looks good, why it looks bad, how people perceive what you have designed, how to best communicate what you want to communicate...

[Yahwe]

Originally Posted by Texan

how to best communicate what you want to communicate...

Originally Posted by Texan

Unless you have great inherent analytical capabilities,

For goodness sake you work in propaganda - how can you put words together in such a random fashion???

Goebbels would have sacked you.

[Texan]

Oddly enough, my words were not put together in a random fashion.

I suspect you understood exactly what I meant.

You probably would have chosen different words. Would the target audience understand what you meant?

What words would you have used instead of the words I used?

[Mzyxptlk]

Different ones, presumably.

[Androme]

Originally Posted by Texan

The software is just a tool. Being a designer doesn't mean learning how to use the tools. It means understanding why something looks good, why it looks bad, how people perceive what you have designed, how to best communicate what you want to communicate...

Thanks for the post, was an eye-opener. But I have to disagree in part with "being a designer doesn't mean how to use the tools" - while yes, it's up to a designer's imagination and appliance of theory inorder to be successful at design, I know 2 designers personally who have never studied design at school or graduate level and yet have a few high paying commissions under their belt from Computer Arts and Digit mag amongst a few other clients. They told me they just experimented with the tools and learnt what the tools can do for them.

In essence, you might have X knowledge of design but without extensive knowledge of the tools you have to work with, it will take you a hell of a lot longer to figure out shit so being part of a designer is to grasp what bloody tools you use.

Anyway, visual communication is something I grasped a long time ago though. What I need to learn are the technical skills tbh. e.g. the various print mediums and types (I learnt at school about the various gsm paper qualities, cmyk 300dpi bollocks etc.) but in terms of print --> magazine design, prop design, cd design etc., t-shirt design etc. but to a professional standard.

Thanks for the help.

[Texan]

It is certainly possible to be a good designer, even a great designer, without attending university. Most people just don't have that capability.

I don't know what is the best answer for you. Most people just cannot produce good design without first learning how to design.

[All Systems Go]

Originally Posted by Androme2

Thanks for the post, was an eye-opener. But I have to disagree in part with "being a designer doesn't mean how to use the tools" - while yes, it's up to a designer's imagination and appliance of theory inorder to be successful at design, I know 2 designers personally who have never studied design at school or graduate level and yet have a few high paying commissions under their belt from Computer Arts and Digit mag amongst a few other clients. They told me they just experimented with the tools and learnt what the tools can do for them.

In essence, you might have X knowledge of design but without extensive knowledge of the tools you have to work with, it will take you a hell of a lot longer to figure out shit so being part of a designer is to grasp what bloody tools you use.

Anyway, visual communication is something I grasped a long time ago though. What I need to learn are the technical skills tbh. e.g. the various print mediums and types (I learnt at school about the various gsm paper qualities, cmyk 300dpi bollocks etc.) but in terms of print --> magazine design, prop design, cd design etc., t-shirt design etc. but to a professional standard.

Thanks for the help.

Basically, the post can be translated to the follwoing:

Make people think 'oooh, shiny' not 'oooh, practical.'

This is how to sell.

[Texan]

It's clear you are not a graphic designer, ASG.

It's Oooh, shiny. or Oooh, not shiny.

Practical has nothing to do with it.

[Androme]

Originally Posted by All Systems Go

Basically, the post can be translated to the follwoing:

Make people think 'oooh, shiny' not 'oooh, practical.'

This is how to sell.

LOL