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Unread 6 Jun 2017, 07:35   #101
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Re: R72 discussion thread

Least I'm still bringing players to pa Kittenz has recruited more people to pa in the last 2 rounds then every ally combined still playing pa in last 10 we thought we try get friends to give it ago and some oldies giving it another chance
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Unread 6 Jun 2017, 07:36   #102
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Re: R72 discussion thread

On top of that chimpie is right if we classed as block its a small one compared to previous rounds but we have different politics but yes to your earlier question butcher you touch fang I'll come for you I'll openly state that we allied I wouldn't be a good ally if I didn't
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Unread 6 Jun 2017, 17:42   #103
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Re: R72 discussion thread

So the blame go on kitten now??
Seriously???
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Unread 6 Jun 2017, 22:10   #104
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Re: R72 discussion thread

The tag sizes are far too small to encourage alliances to recruit old/new players to PA.
Its about time they increase the tag limits so most other alliances can compete numberwise with KittenZ/Ultores.
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Unread 7 Jun 2017, 19:51   #105
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Re: R72 discussion thread

Or alternatively other tags should suck less so that people might consider joining them?
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Unread 7 Jun 2017, 22:20   #106
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Re: R72 discussion thread

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Originally Posted by darkzidane View Post
Or alternatively other tags should suck less so that people might consider joining them?
Even a team of Brazilians can be moulded into a highly efficient force with the right hc team. Unfortunately this is what most have been missing for a long time.

More effort put into your communities ability and the less put into backstabbing will get better results
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Unread 7 Jun 2017, 22:42   #107
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Re: R72 discussion thread

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Originally Posted by darkzidane View Post
Or alternatively other tags should suck less so that people might consider joining them?
Point being that most alliances wont bother putting up a "support" tag, its kinda silly if its 3-4 tags that have recruited beyond the 60 man limit, why not increase the limit to 80?
Its 7 tags thats more or less full, this is silly.
Go look at the PA history page from earlier rounds, wich round had 7 tags that was 90-100% full?
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Unread 7 Jun 2017, 23:07   #108
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Re: R72 discussion thread

80 isnt enough, it needs to be 120. There are thousands of people that want to play but won't because they cant fit in the current lineup of Planetarion alliances.
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Unread 8 Jun 2017, 08:59   #109
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Re: R72 discussion thread

There have never been as few alliances as there are now. The long term trend decreases by about 10% every 10 rounds. The number of alliance members has gone down about 16% every 10 rounds. The data:

Code:
| Rounds | Alliances | Members |
|--------+-----------+---------|
| 30s    |      11.0 |     646 |
| 40s    |       9.0 |     543 |
| 50s    |       8.4 |     453 |
| 60s    |       7.7 |     416 |
(As always, my definition of 'alliance' is a tag with >= 40 players at round end and my definition of 'alliance member' is anyone in such a tag. I've corrected for higher player numbers in free rounds by taking the average of the number of alliance members from the round before and after.)
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Last edited by Mzyxptlk; 8 Jun 2017 at 10:36. Reason: Fixed bad numbers!
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Unread 8 Jun 2017, 09:51   #110
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Re: R72 discussion thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
There have never been as few alliances as there are now. The long term trend decreases by about 10% every 10 rounds. The number of alliance members has gone down about 13% every 10 rounds. The data:

Code:
| Rounds | Alliances | Members |
|--------+-----------+---------|
| 30s    |      11.0 |     612 |
| 40s    |       9.0 |     623 |
| 50s    |       8.4 |     457 |
| 60s    |       7.7 |     409 |
(As always, my definition of 'alliance' is a tag with >= 40 players at round end and my definition of 'alliance member' is anyone in such a tag. I've corrected for higher player numbers in free rounds by taking the average of the number of alliance members from the round before and after.)
So after(r47?) they lowered the tag limits, the alliance member numbers dropped?
This round atm is 643 that is either part of a 40+ tag, or part of a support tag connected to a 40+ tag.
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Unread 8 Jun 2017, 10:31   #111
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Re: R72 discussion thread

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
So after(r47?) they lowered the tag limits, the alliance member numbers dropped?
Oops, didn't notice that, even though that's right there in the spreadsheet. Anyway, no, I don't see a clear deviation from the long-term trend when the tag limits were reduced after r47:
Code:
| Rounds | Alliances | Members |
|--------+-----------+---------|
|  42-44 |       9.3 |     578 |
|  45-47 |       9.0 |     540 |
|--------+-----------+---------|
|  48-51 |      10.0 |     504 |
|  52-54 |       8.3 |     451 |
|--------+-----------+---------|
Yes, the numbers go down, but they're always going down.

[edit] Whoa. Another look at the numbers in my previous post shows they were completely wrong. I have no idea how that happened. Fixed:

Code:
| Rounds | Alliances | Members |
|--------+-----------+---------|
| 30s    |      11.0 |     646 |
| 40s    |       9.0 |     543 |
| 50s    |       8.4 |     453 |
| 60s    |       7.7 |     416 |
|--------+-----------+---------|
Quote:
Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
This round atm is 643 that is either part of a 40+ tag, or part of a support tag connected to a 40+ tag.
You're changing the definition to fit your narrative.
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The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.

Last edited by Mzyxptlk; 8 Jun 2017 at 10:37.
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Unread 8 Jun 2017, 10:49   #112
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Re: R72 discussion thread

Just put the max member limit to infinite and lets see how many alliances there are that will/can compete.
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Unread 8 Jun 2017, 11:15   #113
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Re: R72 discussion thread

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Originally Posted by NoXiouS View Post
Just put the max member limit to infinite and lets see how many alliances there are that will/can compete.
1. The tag that is made up of app Ult and bf etc.

You can put 1000 people in the other side from p3n, CT, ND (the Ult haters) and they would still lose cos when it comes to the crunch they aren't active or coordinated enough.

At least as it is now the cap prevents a totally lopsided contest and politics actually means something. In a game of 2 huge alliances politics is irrelevant. Either nap and the more active team wins or war and the more active team wins.
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Unread 8 Jun 2017, 12:56   #114
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Re: R72 discussion thread

isn't it pretty much the same now? NAP and bottomfeed and see who wins, or WAR and see who wins?
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Unread 8 Jun 2017, 14:11   #115
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Re: R72 discussion thread

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Originally Posted by NoXiouS View Post
isn't it pretty much the same now? NAP and bottomfeed and see who wins, or WAR and see who wins?
Yes and no. Because the more intricate politics of multiple alliances can create scenarios where better players are isolated and massively outnumbered.

For example say BF were winning and CT created a 3 ally block of themselves pen and ND to war them. Now either kittenz could come to the rescue of bf or join cts bandwagon for cheap rocks. There is many permutations that keep the playing field reasonably level.

If you went down the route of 2 or 3 super size alliances then you will end up with most of the better alliances players in the top100 and opponents corpses in the 150>

There will be no choices to make like what I said there is now because kittenz and bf would be the same alliance .
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Unread 9 Jun 2017, 10:15   #116
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Re: R72 discussion thread

pssh, those aren't permutations, those are what will happen in any case. Whoever is winning gets hit by whoever doesn't want them to win and others join on the fight for easy rocks (no matter the sides). same would happen with 2-3 alliances, one hits another and the third tries to benefit.
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Unread 9 Jun 2017, 11:12   #117
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Re: R72 discussion thread

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Originally Posted by NoXiouS View Post
pssh, those aren't permutations, those are what will happen in any case. Whoever is winning gets hit by whoever doesn't want them to win and others join on the fight for easy rocks (no matter the sides). same would happen with 2-3 alliances, one hits another and the third tries to benefit.
But potentially with no limit on tags you don't have 3. You just have alliance A and alliance B. And even more so you could end up with just alliance A and no one else.
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Unread 9 Jun 2017, 15:25   #118
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Re: R72 discussion thread

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Originally Posted by Kaiba View Post
But potentially with no limit on tags you don't have 3. You just have alliance A and alliance B. And even more so you could end up with just alliance A and no one else.
Nobody is saying "no limits on tags".
So if we had one or two less 40 planet tags, would it hurt how the games play out?
Alliances like CT/VGN/BowS is not very diffrent from each other now days, if one of em disapeared it wouldnt hurt the game imho.
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Unread 9 Jun 2017, 16:20   #119
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Re: R72 discussion thread

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
Nobody is saying "no limits on tags".
So if we had one or two less 40 planet tags, would it hurt how the games play out?
Alliances like CT/VGN/BowS is not very diffrent from each other now days, if one of em disapeared it wouldnt hurt the game imho.
That's what they said when we had 10k players.....

I don't get your fascination with getting rid of some of the tags. A lot of the tags are communities that want to stay together and independent. They enjoy playing their way.
I wonder if your theory is that less tags means less competition for bows and more chance of finishing t5
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Unread 9 Jun 2017, 17:49   #120
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Re: R72 discussion thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by NoXiouS View Post
pssh, those aren't permutations, those are what will happen in any case. Whoever is winning gets hit by whoever doesn't want them to win and others join on the fight for easy rocks (no matter the sides). same would happen with 2-3 alliances, one hits another and the third tries to benefit.
Of course, PA politice sucks. But do you think there's absolutely no way it could become worse? That there is no way to tweak the game mechanics in such a way as to make PA politics even shittier than it already is? Because unless you believe we live in the worst possible world already, you must acknowledge that things like galaxy sizes, late starters, XP and ship stats can at least influence how alliances choose to behave. And tag limits, too.

When do you think PA politics will be worst, and when will it be best: when there's 2 240-man alliances, 4 120-man alliances, or 8 60-man alliances?
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Unread 9 Jun 2017, 18:03   #121
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Re: R72 discussion thread

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pssh, those aren't permutations, those are what will happen in any case. Whoever is winning gets hit by whoever doesn't want them to win
This is true.

I am hereby formally declaring war on BF.
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Unread 9 Jun 2017, 18:17   #122
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Re: R72 discussion thread

seems apprime is winning against ultores and flak
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Unread 9 Jun 2017, 19:31   #123
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Re: R72 discussion thread

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That's what they said when we had 10k players.....

I don't get your fascination with getting rid of some of the tags. A lot of the tags are communities that want to stay together and independent. They enjoy playing their way.
I wonder if your theory is that less tags means less competition for bows and more chance of finishing t5
#1. Because 9/10 rounds the fight for #1 is none-existant.

#2. Bigger tags means more people to run the alliances.

#3. It adds more to the game than just activity, people will be valued for being nice people(toxic c*nts dont last long in bigger tags)

#4. It will be more competition to recruit new members, and also might force people to recruit new people to the game to fill tag.

#5. It will make "troll tags" weaker, also it will be easier for alliances aiming for the win to be able to cope with fighting their competetiors AND smaller tags that NAPed/allied/whatever with their competetiors.

#6. I think NAPtarion will be much harder.
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Unread 9 Jun 2017, 19:33   #124
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Re: R72 discussion thread

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Originally Posted by Paisley View Post
seems apprime is winning against ultores and flak
Wonder why Apprime always seems to win rounds where they are being left in charge of the stats

Because of the stats alliances like BF/Ult who went zik/xan FR are unable to compete for #1.
The stats are broken.
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Unread 9 Jun 2017, 19:34   #125
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Re: R72 discussion thread

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
#1. Because 9/10 rounds the fight for #1 is none-existant.

#2. Bigger tags means more people to run the alliances.

#3. It adds more to the game than just activity, people will be valued for being nice people(toxic c*nts dont last long in bigger tags)

#4. It will be more competition to recruit new members, and also might force people to recruit new people to the game to fill tag.

#5. It will make "troll tags" weaker, also it will be easier for alliances aiming for the win to be able to cope with fighting their competetiors AND smaller tags that NAPed/allied/whatever with their competetiors.

#6. I think NAPtarion will be much harder.

Tbh the only thing that makes sense here is point 6. When only two alliances exist i can guarantee there will not be much napping going on.
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Unread 9 Jun 2017, 20:12   #126
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Re: R72 discussion thread

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Originally Posted by CBA View Post
Tbh the only thing that makes sense here is point 6. When only two alliances exist i can guarantee there will not be much napping going on.
Well i never said that i wanted any alliances to disband.
If it ends up with 2-3 alliances at 80 members, some at 60 members, and a few a 40 members that would aswell make the impact smaller allies that always says they arnt playing for the win can make on the top fight.

Lets say tag A and B fights for #1. Both 60 members.
Tag C is allied with tag A, and attacks tag B. Tag C is 50 members
Tag A and C attacks with 2 fleets each member, 220 fleets.
Tag B grounds, and 3 fleet defend and gets 1 gal def fleet each 5 member, 195 Def fleets total.
They have 25 fleets less than the A and C.

If tag A and B was both 80 members it would be different.
A and C combined would be 260 attack fleets combined, B would have 240 def fleets and with gal def 260 fleets for def total.
It would be a much more fair fight.

Why should small tags have so much power over bigger tags?
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Unread 9 Jun 2017, 20:40   #127
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Re: R72 discussion thread

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Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
Of course, PA politice sucks. But do you think there's absolutely no way it could become worse? That there is no way to tweak the game mechanics in such a way as to make PA politics even shittier than it already is? Because unless you believe we live in the worst possible world already, you must acknowledge that things like galaxy sizes, late starters, XP and ship stats can at least influence how alliances choose to behave. And tag limits, too.

When do you think PA politics will be worst, and when will it be best: when there's 2 240-man alliances, 4 120-man alliances, or 8 60-man alliances?
Heres my two cents on the topic: 2 - 6 tags means very static and limitted option when it comes to politics, no matter how you are gonna try and wrap your head around it.

2 way scenario is basicly 1 vs 1 and no politics needed.

3 way scenario also have slim and static options available, and might even result in a very unfair situation where we end up with a 2 way scenario again.
Because whats the point to play as a 3rd tag if the other two makes a pact to ruin your tag.

4 way scenario isn't much more different than a 3 or 2 way scenario.
Makes for 3v1 or 2v2 or 1v1 and 1v1 scenarios. Most likely will atleast 1 if not all tags try to exploit the others movement.

5 and 6 way scenario with 100 man tags: We will see repeated scenarios of 1v1 2v1 3v1 4v1 maybe even 5v1, 2v2 3v2 4v2 and 3v3. Some ofcourse way more frequent than others as political agreements tend to be lasting longer than the minimum required ingame time.

7 - 10 way scenario kinda where we are at now with 60 cap.
We see blocks that focus on one alliance at a time, and we also see counterblocks due to this. We also have several 1v1 wars at the same time. Many hidden deals, many secret agendas, more competition and priorities.

11+ way scenarios where i wish this game actually would be.
Lower tag limit since playerbase clearly cant make this happend.
We would have way more competition for one, more multisided wars, more and lower tags doesn't necessairly force you to play with fewer of your friends.
Just divided over two or more ingame tags. (One safe ally, one more chanse to get alliance win aswell) Stop being so negative to smaller tags!!!
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Unread 9 Jun 2017, 21:35   #128
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Re: R72 discussion thread

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Wonder why Apprime always seems to win rounds where they are being left in charge of the stats

Because of the stats alliances like BF/Ult who went zik/xan FR are unable to compete for #1.
The stats are broken.
Nobody forced BF/Ult to go zik/xan and all alliances and players had access to the stats so they can see strengths and weaknesses.

I really don't see how stats are broken.

I'm not a fan of using forums but I find comments like this one really annoying and even a bit offensive.
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Unread 9 Jun 2017, 21:44   #129
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Re: R72 discussion thread

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
Well i never said that i wanted any alliances to disband.
If it ends up with 2-3 alliances at 80 members, some at 60 members, and a few a 40 members that would aswell make the impact smaller allies that always says they arnt playing for the win can make on the top fight.

Lets say tag A and B fights for #1. Both 60 members.
Tag C is allied with tag A, and attacks tag B. Tag C is 50 members
Tag A and C attacks with 2 fleets each member, 220 fleets.
Tag B grounds, and 3 fleet defend and gets 1 gal def fleet each 5 member, 195 Def fleets total.
They have 25 fleets less than the A and C.

If tag A and B was both 80 members it would be different.
A and C combined would be 260 attack fleets combined, B would have 240 def fleets and with gal def 260 fleets for def total.
It would be a much more fair fight.

Why should small tags have so much power over bigger tags?

Right so what you are actually saying is you want raised tag.sixes because then you could recruit more dross and try and win by size rather than skill and political nous.
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Unread 9 Jun 2017, 21:46   #130
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Re: R72 discussion thread

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Right so what you are actually saying is you want raised tag.sixes because then you could recruit more dross and try and win by size rather than skill and political nous.
Yes.
Being able to run a alliance that has a lot of diffrent personalities, agendas, and playing style does require far more other "HC skill" than getting super active 40 ppl together, and use "political nous" to get ahead should be rewarded.
Recruit "dross", get more people to play PA and get people that are returning/experincing PA for the first time a far better experince
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Unread 9 Jun 2017, 22:12   #131
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Re: R72 discussion thread

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Yes.
Being able to run a alliance that has a lot of diffrent personalities, agendas, and playing style does require far more other "HC skill" than getting super active 40 ppl together, and use "political nous" to get ahead should be rewarded.
Recruit "dross", get more people to play PA and get people that are returning/experincing PA for the first time a far better experince
Go run one of those super active alliances and see how long you last with your 'skillz'. Half active players and noobs will adore anyone who talks to them. Keeping a team of highly competitive top rankers in line and finding the right decisions politically all round and the right targets nightly and enforcing discipline is way beyond anything you can comprehend
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Unread 9 Jun 2017, 22:49   #132
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Re: R72 discussion thread

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Keeping a team of highly competitive top rankers in line y and enforcing discipline
This is exactly what i think should be rewarded, and this is exactly what could be rewarded if you can achieve these two things with bigger tag limits
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Unread 9 Jun 2017, 23:13   #133
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Re: R72 discussion thread

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This is exactly what i think should be rewarded, and this is exactly what could be rewarded if you can achieve these two things with bigger tag limits
It is rewarded. Those people win top alliance regularly. The rest don't
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Unread 10 Jun 2017, 02:51   #134
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Re: R72 discussion thread

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seems apprime is winning against ultores and flak
Flak? Only Ultores is hitting Apprime with 10 fleets a night.
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Unread 10 Jun 2017, 08:42   #135
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Re: R72 discussion thread

Black Flag however are busy making enemies all over.

Wonder how that will work out for them.
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Unread 10 Jun 2017, 09:03   #136
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Re: R72 discussion thread

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Black Flag however are busy making enemies all over.

Wonder how that will work out for them.
Probably well. Make enemies tick 0-400. Get hit by them 400-700. Hit them back for huge xp 700-1000. Sign nap and build to win 1000-1176.
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Unread 10 Jun 2017, 09:06   #137
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Re: R72 discussion thread

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
Wonder why Apprime always seems to win rounds where they are being left in charge of the stats

Because of the stats alliances like BF/Ult who went zik/xan FR are unable to compete for #1.
The stats are broken.
Paisley made the stats right?

He had nothing to do and wasn't asked about the strat App decided on.
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Unread 10 Jun 2017, 09:16   #138
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Re: R72 discussion thread

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Probably well. Make enemies tick 0-400. Get hit by them 400-700. Hit them back for huge xp 700-1000. Sign nap and build to win 1000-1176.
Who signs naps at around tick1000?
By that most tags has decided who they are gonna kill for the remainder of the round.
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Unread 10 Jun 2017, 09:18   #139
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Re: R72 discussion thread

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Flak? Only Ultores is hitting Apprime with 10 fleets a night.
10 more than BF/KittyZ it would be easy to assume?
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Unread 10 Jun 2017, 09:18   #140
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Re: R72 discussion thread

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Probably well. Make enemies tick 0-400. Get hit by them 400-700. Hit them back for huge xp 700-1000. Sign nap and build to win 1000-1176.
Black Flag won't win this round.
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Unread 10 Jun 2017, 10:26   #141
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Re: R72 discussion thread

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Black Flag won't win this round.
Indeed.
App is streets ahead in activity, skill and numbers.
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Unread 10 Jun 2017, 10:37   #142
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Re: R72 discussion thread

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Black Flag won't win this round.
Never said they would. Just said it would go well.

And butcher allies sign late naps quite frequently.when the alliance race is lost to protect gal and planet ranks. But being in bows you wouldn't be in a position to know that.
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Unread 10 Jun 2017, 10:46   #143
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Re: R72 discussion thread

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Indeed.
App is streets ahead in activity, skill and numbers.
Butcher I honestly feel you have no idea how this game is truely played.

You run a self confessed 'training tag' but what you actually want to do is compete with the big boys. However you don't have the skillset/mind control or respect to recruit tier 1 players that you would need to compete. Plus your leadership capabilities are questionable at best. You take too much to heart and struggle to move on from past rounds/actions.

You run a less then medicore alliance that will never be able to compete with any other alliance in the top 5 - really top 10. You will struggle to finish T10 this round even. And your excuse will always be "it's a training tag" if you wanna DC or BC or something for the big boys and have a serious impact in PA give Demort or Sevenseas a shout - see if you can go DC/BC there for next round. Some one like Kittenz or BF im sure would be glad to have your activity around.
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Unread 10 Jun 2017, 12:52   #144
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Re: R72 discussion thread

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Paisley made the stats right?

He had nothing to do and wasn't asked about the strat App decided on.
Facts don't matter. They just get in the way.
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Unread 10 Jun 2017, 15:36   #145
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Re: R72 discussion thread

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Butcher I honestly feel you have no idea how this game is truely played.

You run a self confessed 'training tag' but what you actually want to do is compete with the big boys. However you don't have the skillset/mind control or respect to recruit tier 1 players that you would need to compete. Plus your leadership capabilities are questionable at best. You take too much to heart and struggle to move on from past rounds/actions.

You run a less then medicore alliance that will never be able to compete with any other alliance in the top 5 - really top 10. You will struggle to finish T10 this round even. And your excuse will always be "it's a training tag" if you wanna DC or BC or something for the big boys and have a serious impact in PA give Demort or Sevenseas a shout - see if you can go DC/BC there for next round. Some one like Kittenz or BF im sure would be glad to have your activity around.
Being apart of running tags that won rounds, sure, id rather be a smaller happy aĺliance.
Why would a lot of the rank players play in the communist camp that is bows?
We dont want players that steals all the def everytime, and we dont want cheaters.

How is faceless comming along? From being 60 players, to 30 players, in two rounds, and now where did you go? We need to see more of u CBA, everyone else is dying to hear your wisdom on how to fight wars or how to run their tags.
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Unread 10 Jun 2017, 15:52   #146
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Re: R72 discussion thread

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Black Flag won't win this round.
Lol, you're such a cripple ain't you. Black Flag isn't playing to win you muppet. So I agree with your statement that Black Flag won't win.

This is just a reunion round. We'll retire again next round.
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Unread 10 Jun 2017, 16:01   #147
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Re: R72 discussion thread

I intend to retire you before the end of this round
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Unread 10 Jun 2017, 16:07   #148
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Re: R72 discussion thread

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Black Flag however are busy making enemies all over.

Wonder how that will work out for them.
You mean CT - hardly making enemies all over. The reason we're getting blocked is because CT made a pre-round block, and you just sent your minions. You're so butt hurt we p-targeted you that you can see the emo everytime you post.

It's ok though, keep the hate hype up. You're going to destroy us, because well, you're Forest, and no one messes with you.

Forest, I am very sorry that we angered the almighty one. It was a bad political move to anger The Forest. You are going to send all your spaceships and smash us into little pieces. We are so demoralised by this that we are retiring again next round.

Morale of the story is, don't anger The Forest. Never mess with the little dude.
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Unread 10 Jun 2017, 16:10   #149
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Re: R72 discussion thread

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I intend to retire you before the end of this round
If you think that then you don't know our member-base very well. As long as I'm still active all Black Flag members will be attacking.
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Unread 10 Jun 2017, 16:14   #150
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Re: R72 discussion thread

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You mean CT - hardly making enemies all over. The reason we're getting blocked is because CT made a pre-round block, and you just sent your minions. You're so butt hurt we p-targeted you that you can see the emo everytime you post.

It's ok though, keep the hate hype up. You're going to destroy us, because well, you're Forest, and no one messes with you.

Forest, I am very sorry that we angered the almighty one. It was a bad political move to anger The Forest. You are going to send all your spaceships and smash us into little pieces. We are so demoralised by this that we are retiring again next round.

Morale of the story is, don't anger The Forest. Never mess with the little dude.
I am allianceless, but don't let facts get in the way of a good story lol.
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