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Unread 9 Jun 2009, 17:41   #1
Dogs
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Reduce the alliance tag

From what I heard appocomaster has had it in his head that 90 is too much so he will reduce it to 80.

Now I dont know about you but i cant say too much about apocco as my last post got deleted, but this is ludacris, he is supposed to be saving the game not killing it.

so for once a BIG PLANETARION VOTE FOR ALLIANCE TAG LIMITS:-

I VOTE FOR 50 MEMBERS IN TAG!!!!

keep the thread going please
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Unread 9 Jun 2009, 17:52   #2
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Re: Reduce the alliance tag

alliance limits should be 70-75 with support planet rule enforced, at the current number of active players.
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Unread 9 Jun 2009, 17:57   #3
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Re: Reduce the alliance tag

This is not a democrasy, thank god.

Considering on the last vote we had, half the people voted for a 10week round.
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Unread 9 Jun 2009, 18:03   #4
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Re: Reduce the alliance tag

Allie limit lower , like 40-50 people max would make the game much more interesting imho.

Also my old idea of making all fleets not from same gal or not from same ingame tag auto-hostile would be great addition.
Where you got a pre-tick combat where all incoming fleets to a planet fight first and THEN land on the planet and fight there again

Shoot me :P
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Unread 9 Jun 2009, 18:03   #5
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Re: Reduce the alliance tag

i think tags should be no larger then 50-60 for obvious reasons, whats the point of having maybe 3 competitive allies around? its rediculous
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Unread 9 Jun 2009, 18:04   #6
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Re: Reduce the alliance tag

I vote for 50! And Light, in your awesomeness you changed how democracy is spelled!
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Unread 9 Jun 2009, 18:04   #7
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Re: Reduce the alliance tag

I think the alliance limit should be exactly 134, but I'm not giving any arguments to convince you I am right. So there!
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Unread 9 Jun 2009, 18:06   #8
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Re: Reduce the alliance tag

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Originally Posted by Kargool View Post
I vote for 50! And Light, in your awesomeness you changed how democracy is spelled!
that made me laugh lol
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Unread 9 Jun 2009, 18:06   #9
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Re: Reduce the alliance tag

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Originally Posted by Kargool View Post
I vote for 50! And Light, in your awesomeness you changed how democracy is spelled!
I voted to change it, there was only 1 vote.. So the change went through
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Unread 9 Jun 2009, 18:10   #10
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Re: Reduce the alliance tag

oh dear .. kargool i think the word you were looking for is 'spelt'
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Unread 9 Jun 2009, 18:13   #11
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Re: Reduce the alliance tag

50 players counting towards tag score.. max 60ppl in tag..

+more alliances are able to get that membercount
+more alliances got a chance to really go for top ranks
+more things goin on in this silly game politically
+more fun
+might even mean we got more alliances.. as i guess big alliances might drop into smaller tags
+might mean some BGs, that are atm playing under some alliance tags, separate from em and make their own tag

-Ascendancy and xVx cant keep all their players :P

im not mocking u guys.. Im sorry but i just really cant see any other negative outcomes of this..

PS: Another thing might b that, IF the tag limits are reduced to 50/60 players then it must b sure that gals wont grow too big... so smaller tags could still b able to do decent galraids, etc.. then again with more equally scored tags it might mean we got more wars coming so maybe galraids wont b that big of a deal neways :P
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Unread 9 Jun 2009, 18:15   #12
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Re: Reduce the alliance tag

so far the vote is winning on 50 - 60
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Unread 9 Jun 2009, 18:20   #13
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Re: Reduce the alliance tag

50 is perfect

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Unread 9 Jun 2009, 18:25   #14
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Re: Reduce the alliance tag

60ish would be ok, the cap isn't that bad to be honest. As long as they stop changing it every bloody ****ing round so that communities can build up instead of kicking / mass recruiting every other round
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Unread 9 Jun 2009, 18:30   #15
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Re: Reduce the alliance tag

i think appoco would be spot on in making it 75-80

at the end of the day smaller allies in the 50-75 range should be the aim but to jump from 100 in r30 to 90 in r31 to 50 in r32 would be pretty shit
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Unread 9 Jun 2009, 18:39   #16
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Re: Reduce the alliance tag

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Originally Posted by Steve_G View Post
i think tags should be no larger then 50-60 for obvious reasons, whats the point of having maybe 3 competitive allies around? its rediculous
We've been through this so many times but morons like you just don't seem to get it. Ever.

MORE ALLIES AT THE TAG LIMIT DOES NOT LEAD TO MORE COMPETITION/BETTER ROUNDS. In round 16 the tag limit was 60. There were loads of alliances supposedly competing for #1 (Angels, Subh, Daous Dava, Dos and many other complete jokes) but none of them really competed. It was just ND and 1up at war for the #1 place until Ascendancy tagged up. The alliance competition during that round was plain boring.

As someone (I think Lok) keeps pointing out, with loads of alliances competing it will just mean that whoever manages to avoid being hit will win.
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Unread 9 Jun 2009, 18:45   #17
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Re: Reduce the alliance tag

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Originally Posted by _Kila_ View Post
We've been through this so many times but morons like you just don't seem to get it. Ever.

MORE ALLIES AT THE TAG LIMIT DOES NOT LEAD TO MORE COMPETITION/BETTER ROUNDS. In round 16 the tag limit was 60. There were loads of alliances supposedly competing for #1 (Angels, Subh, Daous Dava, Dos and many other complete jokes) but none of them really competed. It was just ND and 1up at war for the #1 place until Ascendancy tagged up. The alliance competition during that round was plain boring.

As someone (I think Lok) keeps pointing out, with loads of alliances competing it will just mean that whoever manages to avoid being hit will win.
Shouting during a discussion usually means you *know* your arguments are not good enough so you need to make an impression by how you present them :P
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Unread 9 Jun 2009, 18:47   #18
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Re: Reduce the alliance tag

yeah.. and having rounds like the last one is good :P..

how the heck dosent it add competition ??? atm u got more BGs as well that aint complete jokes, but still they got absolutly no chance to go for top alliances.. instead tag that is able to recruit 90 ppl (which i imagine is insanly hard at this point - summer round and overall player amount) got half win already from that recruitment fact.. SPOON, DLR, Evo were damn good tags, but were just out of the top rank play cos of too few members and just got bashed in the end since ppl didnt have motivation nemore.. thats uber shitty round imo..

if u want that crap to continue then yeah, go ahead, make another round with same configuration
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Unread 9 Jun 2009, 18:51   #19
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Re: Reduce the alliance tag

Alliance limit 10
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Unread 9 Jun 2009, 18:56   #20
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Re: Reduce the alliance tag

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Alliance limit 10

At least we could safely say that 50+ alliances are fighting for #1 lol
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Unread 9 Jun 2009, 18:58   #21
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Re: Reduce the alliance tag

By logical extension an alliance limit of 20 would lead to dozens of competing alliances. As more competition is seemingly good I would like to propose an alliance limit of 20. I will also support anyone who proposes an alliance limit smaller than 20.
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Unread 9 Jun 2009, 19:00   #22
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Re: Reduce the alliance tag

alliance limit of 20 cant even hit 1 gal decently.. so its out of the question as far as i see it
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Unread 9 Jun 2009, 19:02   #23
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Re: Reduce the alliance tag

only problem with that it would mean more 24/7 coverage and more online time for defence calls etc = less time for real life, says the same for other alliances who cant fit into an 80 tag waiting and knowing that 1 of the top 3 will be hitting 4 + of there gallaxys while other alliances are struggling to hit 1 or 2
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Unread 9 Jun 2009, 19:14   #24
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Re: Reduce the alliance tag

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kila
As someone (I think Lok) keeps pointing out, with loads of alliances competing it will just mean that whoever manages to avoid being hit will win.
I didn't say 'loads' of alliances, I simply said that they had to have a big enough defence pool so unlike the BG's this round, it wasn't so easy to get pissed on and make it into a game of chicken. I'm pro a limit of 60 counting planets, but then again small teams might encourage outsiders to say "I can win that" get 20-30 people together and take us on.

Quote:
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This is not a democrasy, thank god.

Considering on the last vote we had, half the people voted for a 10week round.
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Unread 9 Jun 2009, 19:17   #25
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Re: Reduce the alliance tag

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Originally Posted by neroon View Post
alliance limit of 20 cant even hit 1 gal decently.. so its out of the question as far as i see it
Smaller galaxies too plz. Or abolish galaxies altogether maybe and introduce giant clusters with -2 def eta, that seems cool.

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Originally Posted by Dogsgrowl
only problem with that it would mean more 24/7 coverage and more online time for defence calls etc = less time for real life
In all likelihood you'd just cover what you can and then you wouldn't be able to cover any more and that would be that. There'd be so few fleets that you'd know pretty quickly if you were done etc.
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Unread 9 Jun 2009, 19:19   #26
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Re: Reduce the alliance tag

I tried to get it down to 70 a month ago and tried to get discussion on it in the allinaces forum/channel, this was the reply:

"I'm happy to drop the limit to those sorts of levels, though a -20 drop is quite big, but I'd like to ensure we have enough fair-standard alliance tools [and agreement with cservice that new alliances can register channels] before this goes ahead."

I would support an alliance limit of 50 at this time so long as support planet rule was in effect.
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Unread 9 Jun 2009, 19:26   #27
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Re: Reduce the alliance tag

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Originally Posted by [DDK]gm View Post
I tried to get it down to 70 a month ago and tried to get discussion on it in the allinaces forum/channel, this was the reply:

"I'm happy to drop the limit to those sorts of levels, though a -20 drop is quite big, but I'd like to ensure we have enough fair-standard alliance tools [and agreement with cservice that new alliances can register channels] before this goes ahead."

I would support an alliance limit of 50 at this time so long as support planet rule was in effect.


Consider this thread a way of hoping the creators will take notice and make imediate decision on a lower tag base than they are proposing, after all its a vote on the planetarion PLAYERS not on a 1 mans vote who thinks he is the greatest god with the best intentions
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Unread 9 Jun 2009, 19:27   #28
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Re: Reduce the alliance tag

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Originally Posted by JonnyBGood View Post
Smaller galaxies too plz. Or abolish galaxies altogether maybe and introduce giant clusters with -2 def eta, that seems cool.

In all likelihood you'd just cover what you can and then you wouldn't be able to cover any more and that would be that. There'd be so few fleets that you'd know pretty quickly if you were done etc.
I like the idea of scaling down galaxies substantially and adding geography to the game:

10 men galaxies in 15 galaxy clusters. that would give us about 8 or so decent clusters realistically. I think you would add tons of political and military depth.
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Unread 9 Jun 2009, 19:33   #29
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Re: Reduce the alliance tag

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Originally Posted by JonnyBGood View Post
By logical extension...
I bet your maths skills (i.e. logic skills) are pretty awesome! You should check out this site for equally whacky but cool logical extensions! They'll blow your mind away no doubt.

mz - the original poster asked for a vote, not a discussion. While you're free to give reasons if you want to, its also fine to simply vote. Though I agree, they should also force everyone voting in elections to give reasons as well - those with inferior reasons have their vote discounted.

To summarise: everyone is making sensible posts (though perhaps with no reason for some, but again this thread was intended as a vote), but its the same Ascendancy people who decide to be big babies in it. And you wonder why everyone dislikes you chaps. I think the same goes for plenty of threads as well (I kinda feel sorry for lokken being associated with the rest of you).

Back on topic, I would vote for 50 - but for reasons fuzzy gave, it really can't be anything less than 75-80. So I vote for 75!
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Unread 9 Jun 2009, 19:35   #30
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Re: Reduce the alliance tag

It's called a parody dear. But your recent efforts in hanging on my every word are really appreciated. I might start a blog just for you


Edit: Er, if you start stalking me in real life that'd be a bit too creepy though so please refrain from that.
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Unread 9 Jun 2009, 19:37   #31
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Re: Reduce the alliance tag

lol newt your full of it there. reducing it a further 5 is pointless so why bother
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Unread 9 Jun 2009, 19:40   #32
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Re: Reduce the alliance tag

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Originally Posted by Newt View Post
mz - the original poster asked for a vote, not a discussion. While you're free to give reasons if you want to, its also fine to simply vote. Though I agree, they should also force everyone voting in elections to give reasons as well - those with inferior reasons have their vote discounted.
How do we determine an inferior reason?
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Unread 9 Jun 2009, 19:45   #33
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Re: Reduce the alliance tag

score limit 50, alliance limit 60-70 is fine imo.
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Unread 9 Jun 2009, 19:48   #34
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Re: Reduce the alliance tag

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Originally Posted by JonnyBGood View Post
It's called a parody dear. But your recent efforts in hanging on my every word are really appreciated. I might start a blog just for you
No, you're trying to belittle everyone else's arguments with baby-logic. Also, I think the proof for how small alliances don't give rise to interesting rounds was put together by mz and heartless somewhere (god, I'm having another go at mz here I guess, but coincidence ). That's going off a data set of like 10-15rounds. This isn't A-level chemistry - to be able to draw real conclusions from data you need more than that (which is impossible). Especially in a game where round dynamics are strongly governed by other factors like the time of the year, races and shipstats. *

For example, Kila using r16 as an example - an xp round. Everyone hates xp rounds with a burning passion... therefore the round was shit. Ah, no, it was because of 60 tag limits! Silly me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gm
lol newt your full of it there. reducing it a further 5 is pointless so why bother
haha. I just didn't feel like saying 80

Quote:
Originally Posted by light
How do we determine an inferior reason?
read mz's reply to the post and see if he's content or not.

* edit: those plots mz made up were interesting though - but to start saying they're proof, or concrete evidence, is just plain wrong.

Last edited by newt; 9 Jun 2009 at 19:55.
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Unread 9 Jun 2009, 19:48   #35
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Re: Reduce the alliance tag

I just noticed DogsGrowl spelt ludicrous ludacris in his first post and would like to hereby petition for this thread to be preserved officially in some hall of awesomeness.
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Unread 9 Jun 2009, 19:55   #36
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Re: Reduce the alliance tag

Quote:
Originally Posted by Newt
No, you're trying to belittle everyone else's arguments with baby-logic.
Considering that GD thread where you rant on at me for drawing conclusions on someone's intentions based on insufficient evidence this is pretty ironic. I was just using a retarded argument because I thought it'd be amusing. It was.

Quote:
Also, I think the proof for how small alliances don't give rise to interesting rounds was put together by mz and heartless somewhere (god, I'm having another go at mz here I guess, but coincidence
Surely the burden of proof here should be on those seeking to show that a lower tag limit=more competing alliances?
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Unread 9 Jun 2009, 19:57   #37
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Re: Reduce the alliance tag

Wrong forum, and useless suggestion. For the first aspect a moderator might want to move this to Planetarion suggestions where it'll luckily just be another pointless thread about this topic.
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Unread 9 Jun 2009, 19:58   #38
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Re: Reduce the alliance tag

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood View Post
Surely the burden of proof here should be on those seeking to show that a lower tag limit=more competing alliances?
This round itself proved it?
More people wanted to play in smaller BG's then full tag limits.

If people wanted to tag up fully, I'm sure they could have.
But they didn't, they wanted to tag up with a small force and try to stay competitive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartless View Post
Wrong forum, and useless suggestion. For the first aspect a moderator might want to move this to Planetarion suggestions where it'll luckily just be another pointless thread about this topic.
You're an idiot.
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Unread 9 Jun 2009, 19:59   #39
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Re: Reduce the alliance tag

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Originally Posted by Newt View Post
mz - the original poster asked for a vote, not a discussion. While you're free to give reasons if you want to, its also fine to simply vote. Though I agree, they should also force everyone voting in elections to give reasons as well - those with inferior reasons have their vote discounted.
Game design is not a democracy. Having a vote is ****ing useless when you ask people who have no idea how PA would change if the features they advocate were implemented. You are all incompetent. Here's how you take community input. You ask them what they want to achieve. Then you let intelligent people who know what they're doing decide how to best achieve that.
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Unread 9 Jun 2009, 19:59   #40
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Re: Reduce the alliance tag

I'm fine with whatever arbitrary number PAteam end up deciding on.
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Unread 9 Jun 2009, 20:03   #41
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Re: Reduce the alliance tag

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Originally Posted by Psi_K View Post
This round itself proved it?
Last round disproved it then. In reality both rounds were just products of political situations that the alliance tag limits don't have that much impact on.
Quote:
More people wanted to play in smaller BG's then full tag limits.

If people wanted to tag up fully, I'm sure they could have.
But they didn't, they wanted to tag up with a small force and try to stay competitive.
There are more people in 60 member plus alliances than there are in sub 60 alliances.
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Unread 9 Jun 2009, 20:03   #42
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Re: Reduce the alliance tag

Quote:
Originally Posted by Psi_K View Post
This round itself proved it?
More people wanted to play in smaller BG's then full tag limits.

If people wanted to tag up fully, I'm sure they could have.
But they didn't, they wanted to tag up with a small force and try to stay competitive.
No it has not? Make up your mind maybe. It looks like you are constantly changing the reason for creating the BGs to support any sort of argument the BG members bring up.
Apart from that, there's no empirical evidence for the thesis of smaller tags = more competition. So once your sudden attack of tourettes is over you might want to use that helpful search button up there at the top of the page and search for the graphs mz provided in some other threads.
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Unread 9 Jun 2009, 20:07   #43
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Re: Reduce the alliance tag

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Originally Posted by JonnyBGood View Post
Last round disproved it then. In reality both rounds were just products of political situations that the alliance tag limits don't have that much impact on.
You really don't think alliance tag limits have an effect on political situations?

Quote:
There are more people in 60 member plus alliances than there are in sub 60 alliances.
There are more people in sub 70 member alliances than there are in plus 70 alliances.
This is fun.
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Unread 9 Jun 2009, 20:13   #44
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Re: Reduce the alliance tag

Quote:
Originally Posted by Psi_K View Post
You really don't think alliance tag limits have an effect on political situations?
A pretty minimal one.

Quote:
There are more people in sub 70 member alliances than there are in plus 70 alliances.
This is fun.
I didn't think 70 people counted as a "smaller BG". Which is what your claim was, that
Quote:
More people wanted to play in smaller BG's then full tag limits.
Even if you want to limit it to just xvx, rock and ascendancy there are more people in those 3 alliances than there are in smaller BGs.
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Unread 9 Jun 2009, 20:15   #45
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Re: Reduce the alliance tag

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Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
Game design is not a democracy. Having a vote is ****ing useless when you ask people who have no idea how PA would change if the features they advocate were implemented. You are all incompetent. Here's how you take community input. You ask them what they want to achieve. Then you let intelligent people who know what they're doing decide how to best achieve that.
You can't have votes in anything other than a democracy????? Wow. I didn't know that, I bet the thread starter didn't either.

Thanks for educating us In a less sarcastically shit note, nothing wrong with having a vote. Whether PA will listen or not is up to pa team.

Quote:
Originally Posted by J
Considering that GD thread where you rant on at me for drawing conclusions on someone's intentions based on insufficient evidence this is pretty ironic.
That thread got massively derailed in a shit almost off-topic manner. It ended up in a silly 'fight' about, almost, semantics after a few hours of discussion. I apologised. You entered this thread and immediately went into shit-mode.

Quote:
Surely the burden of proof here should be on those seeking to show that a lower tag limit=more competing alliances?
This isn't a murder trial. Its a game. New innovative things with little evidence are often thrown into a game, or at least tested. If I'm wrong, please educate me what the 'proof' was that we needed a zikonian and xandathrii race in the game. Also for ETD (I won't even bother trying to spell that ).

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Unread 9 Jun 2009, 20:19   #46
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Re: Reduce the alliance tag

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Originally Posted by JonnyBGood View Post
A pretty minimal one.
The less (or more) room you have in a tag has a direct effect on what political events can occur during a round.
If Asc could recruit up to 200, it was be Asc vs all every round because no one would ever bother putting together a counter.
If it was 50, it would be Asc + Asc2 + ally A + ally B vs a similar style block AND there would be other full tag alliances on the sidelines.
Quote:
I didn't think 70 people counted as a "smaller BG". Which is what your claim was, that Even if you want to limit it to just xvx, rock and ascendancy there are more people in those 3 alliances than there are in smaller BGs.
My first post was "score limit 50, alliance limit 60-70 is fine imo. "
People wont even leave a full tag'd alliance unless they're forced to.
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Unread 9 Jun 2009, 20:23   #47
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Re: Reduce the alliance tag

lol how can u argue about the fact that there wont b any more competition? are u blind or sth. ?

this round we had 2 alliances playing with full tag and noone was able to even get close to em.. yes BGs might have had a chance to beat Asc or xVx as long as it was needed for em not to win the round but even then none of the BGs had any chance to overcome Asc or xVx in score and in alliance rankings..

also im quite sure its safe to say BGs did have competent players playing in them, so still not gettin a chance to end in top rankings alliance rank wise is totally wrong imho ..

still my opinion is: reduced tag limits; more alliances; more tags fighting for possible top ranking; more fun

seems to me that as long as we do have any 90+ tags in this game we cant get this 50/60 limit through, but imo it would b nice to have a round where more than 2 alliances get to fight for #1 place in uni..(atm it just wont happen)
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Unread 9 Jun 2009, 20:26   #48
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Re: Reduce the alliance tag

Can't take the internet too seriously man as I'm sure you'd agree!

Quote:
This isn't a murder trial. Its a game. New innovative things with little evidence are often thrown into a game, or at least tested. If I'm wrong, please educate me what the 'proof' was that we needed a zikonian and xandathrii race in the game. Also for ETD
A lot of people, and I consider it fairly justified, would say that the introduction of etd has made stats pretty hard to balance.

We've had changes in alliance limits before. They've not really accomplished much. If we're going to throw new innovative things into the game we could at least ensure they're new and innovative heh.
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Unread 9 Jun 2009, 20:30   #49
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Re: Reduce the alliance tag

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Originally Posted by Psi_K View Post
The less (or more) room you have in a tag has a direct effect on what political events can occur during a round.
If Asc could recruit up to 200, it was be Asc vs all every round because no one would ever bother putting together a counter.
Yeah. Like in pa pre r10 where those giant 1000 man alliances were the ones that ran the game....
Quote:
If it was 50, it would be Asc + Asc2 + ally A + ally B vs a similar style block AND there would be other full tag alliances on the sidelines.
This is one possible outcome. There are many possible outcomes though. Actually predicting exactly how things will pan out is pretty difficult.


Quote:
My first post was "score limit 50, alliance limit 60-70 is fine imo. "
People wont even leave a full tag'd alliance unless they're forced to.
I wasn't disagreeing with your first post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by neroon
seems to me that as long as we do have any 90+ tags in this game we cant get this 50/60 limit through, but imo it would b nice to have a round where more than 2 alliances get to fight for #1 place in uni
There were four alliances fighting for it last round.
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Unread 9 Jun 2009, 20:31   #50
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Re: Reduce the alliance tag

having 50ppl tags aint new ?
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