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Unread 29 Mar 2005, 18:22   #1
demiGOD
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Abortion
I am pro-Abortion.

I would rather witness an individual go through the painful process, both physically and mentally, of Abortion than try to raise a child that was an accident.

Failure to successfully raise a child is a permanent mistake that has to be lived with eternally, and I think pregnancy is not a fair reward for irresponsible sexual relations with someone considering the pains of raising an unplanned child.

We live our lives and get bombarded with choices. And we choose to do what we think is right.

I paid for 2 Abortions. I'm not proud of it, but it kept my lifestyle, and possibly, also saved my life.




Not a lot of people will agree with me.
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Unread 29 Mar 2005, 18:24   #2
Structural Integrity
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Re: Abortion
You're forgetting, 99% of this board is European... we DO agree with you
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Unread 29 Mar 2005, 18:33   #3
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Re: Abortion
Yeh I agree.
It only becomes blurred when the abortion is left too late. (24 weeks)
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Unread 29 Mar 2005, 18:40   #4
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Re: Abortion
I hate babies
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Unread 29 Mar 2005, 18:41   #5
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Re: Abortion
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Originally Posted by Structural Integrity
You're forgetting, 99% of this board is European... we DO agree with you
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Unread 29 Mar 2005, 18:42   #6
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Re: Abortion
I've always been fairly anti-abortion, just because I do believe a foetus is living.

If it's known the parents really won't be able to look after the child then that's 'acceptable' because it probably wouldn't live the best life anyway. However, if it will be just a mere inconvenience, then I don't believe the child should be killed.

I appreciate my views will be different to most.
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Unread 29 Mar 2005, 18:49   #7
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Re: Abortion
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Originally Posted by Structural Integrity
You're forgetting, 99% of this board is European... we DO agree with you
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Unread 29 Mar 2005, 18:50   #8
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Re: Abortion
I am pro abortion in the sense that it should be up to individuals to make their own individual ethical choice.

I'd respect anti-abortion campaigners more if they spent more time persuading people not to have abortions rather than campaigning for it to be banned.

I consider abortion very much a last resort of those desperate to cause unnecessary harm.
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Unread 29 Mar 2005, 18:52   #9
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Re: Abortion
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Originally Posted by demiGOD
I paid for 2 Abortions.

We should abort all stupid over sexed wankers who don't learn a ****ING SIMPLE LESSON first time round
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Unread 29 Mar 2005, 19:06   #10
Goatsemaster
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Re: Abortion
I'm pro abortion, there are too many human beings alive already.
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Unread 29 Mar 2005, 19:07   #11
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Re: Abortion
I accept it, hopefully as a last resort. I can't see how women could be forced to have babies they don't want.

I think people have been given the impression that it's just some inconvenient cells they're having removed when really it's a potential person that deserves some rights. I'm troubled by my thoughts that I hope these women feel guilt and regret and shame because in most cases they probably deserve to.

I'd be happy if the only change to the law was a reduction of the time limit as currently some abortions are 'older' than surviving premature babies.

And let's not ignore the fathers. Perhaps if abortions were conditional on the fathers having a ball removed each time, they'd be more responsible
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Unread 29 Mar 2005, 19:17   #12
Yahwe
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Re: Abortion
a reduction in the time limit serves no purpose.

it takes a while to determine (dare i even say notice) that you are actually pregnant.

having an abortion must be a truly truly difficult decision. why add pressure by reducing thinking time?

many abnormalities and deformaties don't show up until later on in pregnancy.

when we picked this time limit we balanced all the competing factors. let us talk of reducing the time limit when the doctors ask for it. not when a bad politician desperate for attention does so.
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Unread 29 Mar 2005, 19:18   #13
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Re: Abortion
Im generally against it. I wont listen to anyone in a western democratic soceity that says they dont realise "unprotected sex = babies". The bollocks that people talk about "inadequate sex education" is see through and crap. The only cases i approve of abortion are when the life of the mother is in danger, or when the girl has been raped - two pretty extreme circumstances.

I dont see why its acceptable to kill something, someone inside you. Is it because you cant see the child? Maybe we should start aborting after 10 months - give you a months trial, see how you handle being a parent? Or how about if i put a blindfold on and go about shooting a gun in a public place? I cant see them, so i must be aborting them, surely. Absolve me of guilt please.
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Unread 29 Mar 2005, 19:20   #14
Yahwe
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Re: Abortion
no one is talking about absolution

we are talking about a state not putting a woman in prison for having it done.
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Unread 29 Mar 2005, 19:53   #15
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Re: Abortion
Since the foetus is completely dependent on the mother for life, I don't see why they should be forced to allow a parasite to live inside them. A foetus is barely human and barely alive, so I've got not problem with them getting rid of it; it's not like it feels the suffering.
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Unread 29 Mar 2005, 20:17   #16
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Re: Abortion
Quote:
Originally Posted by LHC
A foetus is barely human and barely alive, so I've got not problem with them getting rid of it; it's not like it feels the suffering.
how many years of medical study did you undertake to be so conclusive?
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Unread 29 Mar 2005, 20:18   #17
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Re: Abortion
Quote:
Originally Posted by LHC
A foetus is barely human and barely alive
i think these are the two fundamental points of disagreement and misunderstanding in this argument. is the foetus alive? yes, in much the same way as an amoeba is. Is it capable of surviving independently? No. And in cases where it could be removed from the womb, that's still a far riskier operation than an abortion for the mother.

Is the foetus human? No. Could it become a human? Yes. However, there's a world of difference between these two. An egg is not a chicken, and many vegetarians feel no compunction about eating the former. Equating a potential life with a realised one is flawed and pointless.

The only logically consistent abortion argument is one regarding the sanctity of the potential for further human life over, and at the expense of, the guarantee of existing human life in the form of the unwilling mother. As an argument this is wholly and unfairly slanted against the unwilling mother; The number of anti-abortionists in this group is less than astronomical.

My own view is that those carrying birthable babies should be encouraged and offered support to have them and give them up for adoption where neccessary; however, far more important i feel is the legalisation - not, some of you, the encouragement - of abortions up to full term.
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Unread 29 Mar 2005, 20:47   #18
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Re: Abortion
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Originally Posted by Yahwe
We should abort all stupid over sexed wankers who don't learn a ****ING SIMPLE LESSON first time round
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Unread 29 Mar 2005, 21:27   #19
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Re: Abortion
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
We should abort all stupid over sexed wankers who don't learn a ****ING SIMPLE LESSON first time round
I was very young and stupid.
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Unread 29 Mar 2005, 21:29   #20
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Re: Abortion
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stew
I've always been fairly anti-abortion, just because I do believe a foetus is living.

If it's known the parents really won't be able to look after the child then that's 'acceptable' because it probably wouldn't live the best life anyway. However, if it will be just a mere inconvenience, then I don't believe the child should be killed.

I appreciate my views will be different to most.
At what point do you consider a foetus to be living?

I assume you don't use your sperm to there full effect. Just as much as I assume that pretty much every woman doesn't use their eggs to full effect. Potential living human?
If you have ever had sex, using protection other than a condom, you do realise that the egg becomes fertilised but is 'flushed out' as it were?
At what point do you personally consider that the bundle of cells becomes living?
It's an important question, and i guess you have to decide what your definition of living is.

Also, to the other people saying "they should learn from mistakes". What happens if the condom splits? or if the pill doesn't work? etc etc.
Surely abortion should be an accessible option?

Like I said before - It only becomes a grey area (in my eyes) when the pregnancy is quite far gone. In which case it's usually because the parent(s) have stalled in making the decision, possibly because of the social pressures on them.

Pregnancy tests should be easily accessible to allow for an early decisions to be made thus allowing this grey area to happen less frequently.
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Unread 29 Mar 2005, 21:30   #21
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Re: Abortion
Quote:
Originally Posted by demiGOD
I was very young and stupid.
twice
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Unread 29 Mar 2005, 21:32   #22
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Re: Abortion
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ste

Also, to the other people saying "they should learn from mistakes". What happens if the condom splits? or if the pill doesn't work? etc etc.
Surely abortion should be an accessible option?
i'm betting he was just a twat.
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Unread 29 Mar 2005, 21:35   #23
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Re: Abortion
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
i'm betting he was just a twat.
i wasn't specifically talking about demiGOD.
chances are you are right though.
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Unread 29 Mar 2005, 21:35   #24
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Re: Abortion
Quote:
Originally Posted by demiGOD
I was very young and stupid.
was?
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Unread 29 Mar 2005, 22:04   #25
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Re: Abortion
Maybe we should ask a doctor at what point foetuses start to show signs of intelligence and self-awareness sufficient to qualify them as human?
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Unread 29 Mar 2005, 22:07   #26
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Re: Abortion
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
Maybe we should ask a doctor at what point foetuses start to show signs of intelligence and self-awareness sufficient to qualify them as human?
about age 3.
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Unread 29 Mar 2005, 22:33   #27
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Re: Abortion
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1-X
how many years of medical study did you undertake to be so conclusive?
Giles (G_Frog) told me.

edit: Actually he didn't. He posted something vaguely similar here ages ago. So don't blame him if I've exaggerated or misunderstood.
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Unread 29 Mar 2005, 22:35   #28
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Exclamation Re: Abortion
Give me a kiss and I'll tell you my opinion on this issue.
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Unread 29 Mar 2005, 22:39   #29
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Re: Abortion
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phang
about age 3.

Because Dr. Phang actually stands for Dire Predictions Having Absolutely No Grounding lol.
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Unread 29 Mar 2005, 22:40   #30
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Re: Abortion
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1-X
it's a potential person that deserves some rights.
Why?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ste?
I've always been fairly anti-abortion, just because I do believe a foetus is living.
Why should this matter?
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Unread 29 Mar 2005, 22:43   #31
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Re: Abortion
I believe in ghosts :eek:
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Unread 29 Mar 2005, 22:46   #32
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Re: Abortion
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
Because Dr. Phang actually stands for Dire Predictions Having Absolutely No Grounding lol.
actually.

phang had a good point.

just because it's born, is it a human?

before you all get on your high horses, let's remember that the christian church doesn't baptise on the day of birth, but usually a good many months after.
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Unread 29 Mar 2005, 22:51   #33
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Re: Abortion
No?
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Unread 29 Mar 2005, 22:59   #34
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Re: Abortion
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
just because it's born, is it a human?
i have to say i have never seen a reasoned argument achieve such a glorious apex of logical disconnect
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Unread 29 Mar 2005, 23:13   #35
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Re: Abortion
Don't we have adoption for getting rid of unwanted babies? Abortion should be made illegal just to ensure that the stupid bitches have to suffer giving birth, and hopefully they'll learn their lesson


Not likely as they're stupid bitches
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Unread 29 Mar 2005, 23:16   #36
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Re: Abortion
from my view

you are responsible to give that 'person' the best care and life possible. according to your (the mothers) standards, as she is in all ways responsible for this 'person', she should be allowed in any way to 'abort' it during pregnancy. a reason good enough for her should be a reason good enough for anyone.
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Unread 29 Mar 2005, 23:16   #37
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Re: Abortion
Quote:
Originally Posted by Summanus
Don't we have adoption for getting rid of unwanted babies? Abortion should be made illegal just to ensure that the stupid bitches have to suffer giving birth, and hopefully they'll learn their lesson


Not likely as they're stupid bitches

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ste
Also, to the other people saying "they should learn from mistakes". What happens if the condom splits? or if the pill doesn't work? etc etc.
Surely abortion should be an accessible option?
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Unread 29 Mar 2005, 23:19   #38
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Re: Abortion
Quote:
Originally Posted by Summanus
Don't we have adoption for getting rid of unwanted babies? Abortion should be made illegal just to ensure that the stupid bitches have to suffer giving birth, and hopefully they'll learn their lesson


Not likely as they're stupid bitches
Backstreet abortioms. that'll teach them....
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Unread 29 Mar 2005, 23:20   #39
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Re: Abortion
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ste
No, adoption should be an accessible option. Here we have this wonderful service, but no, we'll just kill it instead because I'm a selfish ****
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Unread 29 Mar 2005, 23:24   #40
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Re: Abortion
Adopted children are 0 to 4000 per cent MORE LIKELY to commit murder.
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Unread 29 Mar 2005, 23:25   #41
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Re: Abortion
Quote:
Originally Posted by Summanus
No, adoption should be an accessible option. Here we have this wonderful service, but no, we'll just kill it instead because I'm a selfish ****

i hope that after 14* weeks of pregnancy you hear that your kid is in someway
  1. not yours
  2. horribly deformed
  3. terribly ill and will die before his 10th*
  4. gay
  5. whatever

or that
  1. you had some disease that you now give to the kid (or the mother) (asuming you are male)
  2. your 'wife' was raped but now she has to carry the kid
  3. it isn't actually your wife but you're best friends girl

etc


*or some other arbitrary time
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Unread 29 Mar 2005, 23:29   #42
Ste
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Re: Abortion
Quote:
Originally Posted by Summanus
No, adoption should be an accessible option. Here we have this wonderful service, but no, we'll just kill it instead because I'm a selfish ****
You think we have enough parents that want to adopt in this country?
You think it's fair for the mother to go through 9 months of pregnancy?
You think it's fair on the kid to grow up in a foster home and maybe one day have to go and find out why he/she wasn't wanted by his/her biological parents?
You think we haven't got a big enough population already?

Adoption isn't wonderful.
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Unread 29 Mar 2005, 23:31   #43
Marilyn Manson
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Exclamation Re: Abortion
Quote:
Originally Posted by Knight Theamion
i hope that after 14* weeks of pregnancy you hear that your kid is in someway
  1. Actually Idi's
  2. horribly deformed
  3. terribly ill and will die before his 10th*
  4. gay
  5. whatever
  6. all of the above (quite likely, if it is Idi's)
Corrected for great cock whoring.
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Unread 29 Mar 2005, 23:45   #44
demiGOD
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Re: Abortion
Quote:
Originally Posted by Summanus
Don't we have adoption for getting rid of unwanted babies? Abortion should be made illegal just to ensure that the stupid bitches have to suffer giving birth, and hopefully they'll learn their lesson


Not likely as they're stupid bitches
Are you one of those people who believe that single parents are the lowest form of human? You should be ashamed of yourself. Single parents are one of the greatest miracles of life.

And NO we should not make abortion illegal. If abortion was made illegal, then the pregnant women who doesn't want to bear a child will resort to more dangerous, life-threatening ways of getting rid of the baby.

Adoption is an option, yes, but why bear a child and put it up for adoption months later, and who the hell knows what kind of life the kid will have on these adoption centers. Why do that? You're not only risking society for breeding monsters that will probably murder a family member of yours 17 years from now, but you are also accepting yourself as a failure.
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Unread 29 Mar 2005, 23:49   #45
Phang
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Re: Abortion
Quote:
Originally Posted by demiGOD
Single parents are one of the greatest miracles of life.
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Unread 29 Mar 2005, 23:51   #46
demiGOD
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Re: Abortion
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phang
Yeah, I was trying to figure out what I was trying to say.
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Unread 30 Mar 2005, 00:23   #47
Stew
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Re: Abortion
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ste
At what point do you consider a foetus to be living?
When, with encouragement, it can become a human, and thus has the rights of one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri
Why should this matter?
Because humans have rights, and I consider a foetus to be a human.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ste
You think we have enough parents that want to adopt in this country?
You think it's fair for the mother to go through 9 months of pregnancy?
You think it's fair on the kid to grow up in a foster home and maybe one day have to go and find out why he/she wasn't wanted by his/her biological parents?
You think we haven't got a big enough population already?

Adoption isn't wonderful.
No offence, but that is your worst post ever, and not just because I disagree with you on abortion.





Like I say, these are my views, I dont expect others to agree with them, nor do I expect opnions to change.
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Unread 30 Mar 2005, 00:27   #48
Ste
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Re: Abortion
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stew
When, with encouragement, it can become a human, and thus has the rights of one.
So you disagree with the morning after pill as well then?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stew
No offence, but that is your worst post ever, and not just because I disagree with you on abortion.
I don't think it came out the way i wanted but it's certainly not my worst post ever.
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Unread 30 Mar 2005, 00:31   #49
Stew
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Re: Abortion
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ste
So you disagree with the morning after pill as well then?
It's not as preferable to contraception, no. How long does it take an egg to get fertilised?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ste
I don't think it came out the way i wanted but it's certainly not my worst post ever.
I meant it implied a lot of things that are not true.
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Unread 30 Mar 2005, 00:37   #50
Dace
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Re: Abortion
I would express my opinion on this subject but thanks to the Hyper-feminist girl who i work with and who is "always right ... no, no, no listen to me i'm right ... i'm right i tell you" my opinion has prolly got kinda squewed into a masculine kinda view point where the guy should get some input into the decision making process so just ignore me for this one post (but only this post mind you).
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