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Unread 2 Sep 2007, 14:14   #1
Hebdomad
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The GD pyramid

For anyone who's studied sociology or the like must have come across Maslow's pyramid. For the rest of you, it's a quality of life or "needs" pyramid, with the most essential things at the bottom and the less essential but needed nevertheless things at the apex. See here. It's not perfect and real-life circumstances often intervene but it's a nice abstract quantification of your needs.

As I've been moving around a lot of late I've started to think about what I need the most and what after that I need achieve a satisfactory quality of life. So I thought it's be fun if we all did it. I'm not so interested in the things you find necessary but uninteresting (like food in my case) but I'm more interested in the things you find important and more so important and interesting. I've started from the base of the pyramid:

Safety
Community (kind and interesting friends)
Financial independence
Parental independence
Creativity
Cultural input (music and art)
Educational input (books mainly)

(the last three are very close together and often intertwined)
Work-place satisfaction
Sexual relations


Now you.
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Unread 2 Sep 2007, 15:29   #2
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Re: The GD pyramid

The problem with asking this to people here is that a lot of us are comfortable in our lives. So we'd ignore the bottom couple of points (Physiological/Safety) as we've never experienced an environment where we DID need to worry about them. Where would "ensuring my family is fed" fit in (not for me, for others)?
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Unread 2 Sep 2007, 16:12   #3
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Re: The GD pyramid

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Originally Posted by Tomkat
The problem with asking this to people here is that a lot of us are comfortable in our lives. So we'd ignore the bottom couple of points (Physiological/Safety) as we've never experienced an environment where we DID need to worry about them. Where would "ensuring my family is fed" fit in (not for me, for others)?
Given that we are making a list from another list, I don't think this point is particularly relevent. If you were to ask someone, apropos of nothing, what would make them content in life they would answer you quite differently to one to whom you had given a list of things that they may or may not care about. The first would probably not include "being brutally raped", the second is much more likely to if that is something that is specifically mentioned. Out of sight, out of mind doesn't really apply here.
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Unread 2 Sep 2007, 18:37   #4
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Re: The GD pyramid

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Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri
If you were to ask someone, apropos of nothing, what would make them content in life they would answer you quite differently to one to whom you had given a list of things that they may or may not care about. The first would probably not include "being brutally raped", the second is much more likely to if that is something that is specifically mentioned. Out of sight, out of mind doesn't really apply here.
Maslow's hierarchy isn't about being "content in life", it's about motivation. Therefore Physiological Needs (ie: having money to provide for their family) probably IS one of their primary motivations to succeed in life.
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Unread 2 Sep 2007, 18:39   #5
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Re: The GD pyramid

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Originally Posted by Tomkat
Maslow's hierarchy isn't about being "content in life", it's about motivation.
Sorry, it was the only question I could think of where you wouldn't have been wrong in either case.
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Unread 2 Sep 2007, 18:44   #6
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Re: The GD pyramid

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat
Maslow's hierarchy isn't about being "content in life", it's about motivation.

Maslows Hierarchy of needs is more about needs.

He states that it is impossible to move onto the second level until all the needs of the first are met. When you get into it deeply, it brings up several issues that dont ring so true.

For instance, im not getting any, but family is rather important to me.

I guess that discussion though os for a different thread.
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Unread 2 Sep 2007, 18:45   #7
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Re: The GD pyramid

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forest
Maslows Hierarchy of needs is more about needs.

He states that it is impossible to move onto the second level until all the needs of the first are met. When you get into it deeply, it brings up several issues that dont ring so true.

For instance, im not getting any, but family is rather important to me.

I guess that discussion though os for a different thread.
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Unread 3 Sep 2007, 14:08   #8
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Re: The GD pyramid

His pyramid seems to be far too biased towards how the middle classes in the 20th century viewed their needs, and neglects the fact that some of the most creative/important people in history pretty much focused entirely on the top level while ignoring the rest. A lot of important scientists/philosophers had almost no interest in the respect of others, or in family/friends or even sexual intimacy (Newton died a virgin). Many people of a religious/philosophical persuasion pretty much abandoned material comforts entirely, and there are several schools of thought within Christian theology (and other traditions) that hold that 'self-actualisation' can only be fully realised through constant deprivation of lower levels needs (security/food/sleep/etc). Its almost a truism that a disproportionate amount of great art has been produced by people whose lives have been constant struggles rather than by comfortable middle class types who have had all their needs satisfied before devoting themselves to creativity. Based on the lives of people who were significantly above average, you could probably argue more convincingly for the thesis that comfort/security destroy the ability to be genuinelly creative, than you could for Maslow's thesis that they are prerequisites (although I wouldnt agree with either).

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Unread 3 Sep 2007, 18:20   #9
Hebdomad
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Re: The GD pyramid

Hey this is all fine. I didn't ask you to agree with Maslow, merely to use his model to rank the things you need. If you don't care about safety/comfort you don't have to include it.
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Unread 3 Sep 2007, 18:39   #10
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Re: The GD pyramid

Mine is in the same order as Maslow's (ie: bottomost = needs to satisfy first):


Material objects
Finances
Relationship with the opposite sex (ie: girlfriend)
Acceptance amongst peers
Contentment in life (recreation/work balance)
Physiological (food/water)


I dunno, it's quite hard to put them in order and also I've probably missed out things that I do consider yet often take for granted. It'd have been easier if you'd given us all a list of ~10, and asked us to put them in our own personal order Weeks!
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Unread 3 Sep 2007, 23:45   #11
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Re: The GD pyramid

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nodrog
Its almost a truism that a disproportionate amount of great art has been produced by people whose lives have been constant struggles rather than by comfortable middle class types who have had all their needs satisfied before devoting themselves to creativity.
It may be a truism, but is it actually true? I'm not sure I'd remember the biography about the poet who sat at home most nights drinking tea.

Leaving that aside I think Maslow was writing about psychological health, not whether people produced great art or not. Perhaps that makes his methodology worthless, but I think his point would be many of the people you describe as "above average" were probably desperately unhappy most of their lives, and perhaps on a personal level kind of irritating to be around. If someone is enormously talented in terms of (say) music, is it OK that they're generally a bit of a shit or that they cry themselves to sleep? How far do we take this - are idiot savants who can do equations beyond the realm of normal men but can't use a toilet properly - are they "great" in any sense of the word?

Overall I'm not sure that Mazlow's "healthy" archetype is supposed to equate to some kind of Nieztschean ubermensch (or similar).
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Unread 3 Sep 2007, 23:52   #12
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Re: The GD pyramid

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hebdomad
Hey this is all fine. I didn't ask you to agree with Maslow, merely to use his model to rank the things you need. If you don't care about safety/comfort you don't have to include it.
OK!

1. Physiological needs.
2. A degree of freedom in my daily dealings.
3. Self-image.
4. Safety. (including the loyalty of at least some people)
5. An uneven sense of respect from others.
6. Comfort.
6. Excitement, adventure, and really wild stuff. Or put another way, dopamine.
7. The feeling I am making an ever so tiny contribution to something, somehow.

I cannot place "love" or "family" into the above as I cannot really say I have ever felt I needed either.
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Unread 4 Sep 2007, 08:47   #13
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Re: The GD pyramid

Interesting!

I seem to have missed out peer recognition/respect or simply don't focus on it so much. It's not like I've painted the sistine chapel lately but in regard to the decent things I have created (written work, programmes) I've been happy that I've created something of which I'm proud, which tends to be quite a feat because I criticise my work quite heavily, and haven't sought much external acceptance probably because of that (although I do tell at least one person to perhaps fulfill a recognition segment.) In addition, I don't correlate respect to interesting conversations; the people whom I do have interesting conversation tend to speak because they enjoy speaking about the subject and I don't think I'd bother with someone who required that I jump through hoops (that I've read/created x,y and z) before they impart their musings.

I include Dante's making a positive difference, but in my creativity segment. Finally, I'd place love where I placed sexual relations as I tend to find it quite rare and not something I need in great quantities, except for the love of your friends that is, but that came under my community segment.
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Unread 4 Sep 2007, 11:02   #14
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Re: The GD pyramid

I'm wondering, without trying to bring up how correct or wrong Maslow was, if it's actually possible to fill in such a piramid for an entire lifetime?
In my case the piramid I'd fill in at this stage of my life will differ alot from how it'll (most likely) look in say 5 years. I've always felt people need to have a goal in their life, if you put something in the apex now that you haven't accomplished/reached yet it might not be at the apex when you have accomplished it, but something else will then replace it. There'll always be some things that will always be present in the piramid, but probably ranked differently over time.
Ofcourse that's only for my case, I won't claim this as an absolute truth.
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Unread 4 Sep 2007, 14:35   #15
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Re: The GD pyramid

I happily destroy my pyramid and change it from a pyramid to another structure all the time. Claiming I know now what I'll need/want next year is a little silly, like claiming to know what you want to do with your life at the age of eighteen for example. I'm sure I'll have a better understanding later on, and later on from that point and later on from that point, etc, etc. It's just a model (which for all its fault isn't too bad) and shouldn't be replaced for reality.
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Unread 4 Sep 2007, 15:01   #16
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Re: The GD pyramid

How do you decide what you need most at this time then? Knowing it's all very relative to what you will need during your whole life. Do you put whatever you want to obtain most at the moment on top? Or do you put that which makes you most happy in your life at the moment on top?
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Unread 4 Sep 2007, 17:05   #17
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Re: The GD pyramid

Wait, wheren't there two rather interesting posts from Nodrog in this thread earlier today?
Were they deleted or am I in the wrong thread?
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Unread 4 Sep 2007, 17:10   #18
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Re: The GD pyramid

Quote:
Originally Posted by Opi
Wait, wheren't there two rather interesting posts from Nodrog in this thread earlier today?
Were they deleted or am I in the wrong thread?
Nod deleted them himself, for reasons unknown....
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Unread 4 Sep 2007, 20:30   #19
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Re: The GD pyramid

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharur
I'm wondering, without trying to bring up how correct or wrong Maslow was, if it's actually possible to fill in such a piramid for an entire lifetime?
That isn't the idea of the hierarchy. At any given point in time, you should be able to look at the pyramid and see where you are. Your primary motivations to work/socialise/live are to push yourself to the NEXT level. This isn't some sort of competition that you have to achieve within 5 years. Hardly anyone ever reaches the last level (Self Actualisation) and in fact we often fluctuate around the middle.
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Unread 4 Sep 2007, 22:55   #20
Hebdomad
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Re: The GD pyramid

Nod seemed to say he'd probably change his mind in the morning so it's no wonder he's deleted them. They were interesting though.

Sharur: I'd say it's impossible to definitely say what you'll need in five years time. A guess is probably best.
As I said before, I don't care that much about the technicalities of the pyramid just that it's a decent enough model to gauge a cursory understanding.
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Unread 5 Sep 2007, 01:14   #21
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Re: The GD pyramid

I'm fairly sure I'll need food, water and air in 5 years time. And preferably a place to dump my excrement.
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