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Unread 2 May 2008, 12:45   #1
All Systems Go
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Tk

Have you ever told your pupils to think of school as a 'job'?

I was reading a Paul Graham article and he said that he would tell his younger self to do just that.

I was thiking about this today and I think it's a good idea, especially as the education system has little practical impact on your future.*

If pupils saw school** as simply something they had to get out of the way, it would might be easier to get them to

1) do the work, and
2) get better marks

It may even encourage them to follow their own educational interests in their own time.

The idea behid this is the separation of school and education in the mind of the pupil, so that school is something that is done to allow them more time for personal education.

I think if this worked it would be a great benefit, in limiting the damage current schools can do to the learning process.

*by this I mean the actual ideas, rather than A-Levels or whatever qualification you get

**rather than education
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Unread 2 May 2008, 15:07   #2
Ultimate Newbie
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Re: Tk

I teach some first year economics at my uni. Its a core commerce unit, which means that people who want to do accounting, finance, marketing, management, business law or economics must do the unit. Generally, that means ~90% of all people in my classes do not want to do economics or are unsure as to what they want to do.

I still encourage people to try their best, justifying it by saying that at the end of the day the purpose of their degree is to get a job in their field of interest. Those who get the best jobs typically have the highest marks, and your first job gets you your second job and so forth. Although you dont want to be here doing economics, first year units are the best places to get easy high distinctions which both improve your course weighted average and looks good to all potential employers. Thus, there is still benefit to doing your best.

I remind people of this every two weeks or so, or whenever there is a tough part of the course. I think its helpful. To what extent i, i havent done any studies into.
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Unread 2 May 2008, 15:33   #3
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Re: Tk

It would definately keep the idiots out of class and allow those who actually wish to evolve intellectually the oppertunity to do so.

That said, the amount of morons in society would exponentially increase the longer such a system was in place, chosing to 'be cool and miss school'.

From what I understand the main reason children have a problem with school is because they just don't like being told what to do. It's a general problem with authority and it's one that's becoming increasingly commonplace throughout society. It's starting in the lower levels of education and becoming systematic through the entire learning system. And as such, we (the 'responsible' adults) are pandering to an increasingly uncontrollable demographic. Even degree level courses have been set to the 'lowest common denominator' these days.

Having a degree used to mean something; it was a symbol of the height of society's intellects being recognised for their outstanding grasp of a particular field. Degrees have become so commonplace these days, they're simply used as a filtering system. Instead of respecting those with degrees; we simply don't respect those without them.

Personally, I'm doing a degree course at Abertay University of Dundee. Don't get me wrong, I like being at uni - but my course is shockingly poor. It's a Web Design and Development course and I'm sorry - but the lecturers themselves are clueless most of the time. I am 100% certain that I'd have learnt more about web design this year had I just spent more time on the internet reading basic tutorials. It's not a particularly great university in the grand scheme of things, but it does prove my point that degrees are becoming less of a sign of distinction in character, and more of a 'standard' that has to be met.

Addressing the issue directly at hand though - there is enough disinterest in school and attending school at the moment already, without further adding to this by feeding pupils the notion that it's irrelevent* and just part of a grander scheme** which they should feel honoured to be part of. This system may well work for a small minority, but with the interests of the majority to consider, I don't see this working on school children.

Paul Graham is working off of the notion that he now has had the experiences in life to make the judgement that if he was to 'do it all again', he'd view things differently. Well, yes, maybe. But he's basing his conclusions of how he would do things again based on what he understands now.

And giving this choice to children without the same life experiences to guide them would be irresponsible. As with the case put forth by UN - it may well work at higher level education, but the state of schools is bad enough already and I fear that this would only serve to make things worse.

*"It's not important, it's just something you need to get it over with"

** Education.
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Unread 2 May 2008, 15:42   #4
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Re: Tk

I did not state that the education system was unimportant. In fact, it is very important, yet that doesn't mean it can't also be useless.

The general idea is to present education for what it is. That's to say, a vehicle for getting qualifications, rather than getting an education.

I'm working on the logic that to most people education = school. So when people end up hating school, they also hate eduction.

If this link could be broken, then we might stop so many people hating education and we could even produce a generation which views the current system of education as absurd. With whatever consequences that may have.
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Unread 2 May 2008, 21:35   #5
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Re: Tk

I'm not really sure what you mean by a "job". If they view it as a job, surely they'll just regard it as something they turn up to and then leave at the end of the day?

The problem (at my school anyway) is that the pupils regard school as more of a social setting than they do their leisure time. They usually all do their homework to a pretty good degree, and I get the impression they spend their time at home doing work and revision if asked to do it. However at school, they are with their friends and act accordingly. Pretty weird, especially for those of us who look forward to the weekends and our leisure time, but that seems to be how it is for them.

In some ways I can understand - imagine all your friends working with you, and you having next to no money to go out at the weekend. Of course you'd doss around at work and do the bare minimum required.
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Unread 3 May 2008, 00:22   #6
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Re: Tk

You're suppose to enjoy education
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