User Name
Password

Go Back   Planetarion Forums > Planetarion Related Forums > Strategic Discussions

Reply
Thread Tools Display Modes
Unread 3 Jul 2006, 10:45   #1
ArcChas
General (Adjective Army)
 
ArcChas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Yorkshire, England.
Posts: 825
ArcChas has much to be proud ofArcChas has much to be proud ofArcChas has much to be proud ofArcChas has much to be proud ofArcChas has much to be proud ofArcChas has much to be proud ofArcChas has much to be proud ofArcChas has much to be proud of
The end of Xan?

Name Class Target Type Init
Pegasus Destroyer Corvette Norm 4
Pulsar Corvette Destroyer Norm 5

And, of course, the Pulsar is the only anti De that Xans possess.

As they might say in the southern part of my country, 'ere guv - you're 'aving a larf ainchya?

I can only hope that these stats aren't final.
__________________
Amnion (aka The Arcane Chas of Arcania) - Playing PA under those and other pseudonyms every genuine round since Round 2. Most recently (and insignificantly):
Onset of Apathy R94 | Stacks of Resources R95 | The Necromancer of Dol Guldur R96
70 Years of Queen Elizabeth R97 | Worst of The Worst R98
Knights of the Green Shield R99 | Look Out of The Window R100 | Most of All R102
Hard of Hearing (2:7:1) R103 | The Lateness of Your Application (1:6:6) R104 | Kinnison of Tellus (5:1:2) R105
ArcChas is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 3 Jul 2006, 11:20   #2
Wandows
[Vision]
 
Wandows's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 897
Wandows has a reputation beyond reputeWandows has a reputation beyond reputeWandows has a reputation beyond reputeWandows has a reputation beyond reputeWandows has a reputation beyond reputeWandows has a reputation beyond reputeWandows has a reputation beyond reputeWandows has a reputation beyond reputeWandows has a reputation beyond reputeWandows has a reputation beyond reputeWandows has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The end of Xan?

Just because there is a race in the universe capable of roiding Xan doesn't mean that Xan is worthless. I have to admit i haven't had a close look on the stats yet, but most races have to cope with ships that fire at their target after they have been shot at themselves (for example: you can do the same to Terrans with your FI fleet). It doesn't mean a race becomes unplayable, it just means you have to change tactics.
__________________
[Vision] in a lost dream, contributing to The 5th Element at present
Wandows is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 3 Jul 2006, 11:40   #3
wielklem
retired
 
wielklem's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: amsterdam
Posts: 88
wielklem is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: The end of Xan?

i think its a great idea to give terrans a chance to attack xans for a change.
__________________
[]LCH[] Lets Change History.......
[ToT] forever
[esthar]
r3-r5 nub r8-r17, r19 tot/lch nub, r20-r22 CT nub, r23 inactive ToF
wielklem is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 3 Jul 2006, 11:50   #4
JonnyBGood
Banned
 
JonnyBGood's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Further to the right
Posts: 19,441
JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: The end of Xan?

It takes over twice the resources invested in pegs to be invested in pulsars to stop the pegs. Even then you can make xans chicken out because they don't want to lose half their pulsars to save their roids, it's just not cost-effective. The peg seems to be a virtual copy of the tzen from r15 with the only exception being that faggoty perriwinkle for ingal defence. The problem is this makes small xan planets virtually unplayable which will be accentuated even more by the fact a lot of people won't go for xan now.
__________________
Some might ask what good is life without purpose but I'm anticipating a good lunch.
JonnyBGood is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 3 Jul 2006, 12:09   #5
`mac^
Retired insomniac
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Newcastle
Posts: 143
`mac^ is a splendid one to behold`mac^ is a splendid one to behold`mac^ is a splendid one to behold`mac^ is a splendid one to behold`mac^ is a splendid one to behold`mac^ is a splendid one to behold
Re: The end of Xan?

What JBG said. Although im more inclined to say is this the end for terran with the rediculous ammount of ingal anti de and anti bs. Also zik bs fleets will own you all round unless you invest heavily in the underpowered dragon.
__________________
Formerly - LCH | NewDawn | InSomnia | Angels | Omen | Howling Rain | Norsemen | VGN

Currently - Ultores
`mac^ is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 3 Jul 2006, 12:26   #6
JonnyBGood
Banned
 
JonnyBGood's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Further to the right
Posts: 19,441
JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: The end of Xan?

I'd also like to point out that zik fr owns xans for the start of the round. Which currently means that the number one target for 63% of the universe is 19% of the universe. Although obviously caths are fair game for ziks as well until they get to cr but given the disparities between xan and cath research there's going to be a period of at least 72 ticks in which xans will be annihilated. It looks like roiding with everything is pretty difficult which probably means a fairly zik-dominated round.
__________________
Some might ask what good is life without purpose but I'm anticipating a good lunch.
JonnyBGood is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 3 Jul 2006, 13:19   #7
`mac^
Retired insomniac
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Newcastle
Posts: 143
`mac^ is a splendid one to behold`mac^ is a splendid one to behold`mac^ is a splendid one to behold`mac^ is a splendid one to behold`mac^ is a splendid one to behold`mac^ is a splendid one to behold
Re: The end of Xan?

Xan FI owns though But i can defnitly see this being a Zik round given the strength of the BS fleet and the rediculous ease to steal ter DE fleets. I might just go zik and not bother attacking, ingal def all round
__________________
Formerly - LCH | NewDawn | InSomnia | Angels | Omen | Howling Rain | Norsemen | VGN

Currently - Ultores
`mac^ is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 3 Jul 2006, 13:59   #8
ArcChas
General (Adjective Army)
 
ArcChas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Yorkshire, England.
Posts: 825
ArcChas has much to be proud ofArcChas has much to be proud ofArcChas has much to be proud ofArcChas has much to be proud ofArcChas has much to be proud ofArcChas has much to be proud ofArcChas has much to be proud ofArcChas has much to be proud of
Re: The end of Xan?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wandows
Just because there is a race in the universe capable of roiding Xan doesn't mean that Xan is worthless.
I know that - I played Xan last round and watched helplessly while wave after wave of Cath Fr or Cr roided me for free.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wandows
I have to admit i haven't had a close look on the stats yet, but most races have to cope with ships that fire at their target after they have been shot at themselves (for example: you can do the same to Terrans with your FI fleet).
True - but Xan is supposed to be high damage, low armour and fast initiative and Terran is supposed to be the reverse. If I'm going to be roided for free then I'd rather it was by a race which is supposed to have a faster initiative (and also which leaves my ships alive). With these stats building Pulsars would be the equivalent of throwing resources away.[/quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wandows
It doesn't mean a race becomes unplayable, it just means you have to change tactics.
Or change race - which is the point I'm trying to make.
__________________
Amnion (aka The Arcane Chas of Arcania) - Playing PA under those and other pseudonyms every genuine round since Round 2. Most recently (and insignificantly):
Onset of Apathy R94 | Stacks of Resources R95 | The Necromancer of Dol Guldur R96
70 Years of Queen Elizabeth R97 | Worst of The Worst R98
Knights of the Green Shield R99 | Look Out of The Window R100 | Most of All R102
Hard of Hearing (2:7:1) R103 | The Lateness of Your Application (1:6:6) R104 | Kinnison of Tellus (5:1:2) R105
ArcChas is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 3 Jul 2006, 15:05   #9
Dotatrix
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Finland
Posts: 360
Dotatrix has a spectacular aura aboutDotatrix has a spectacular aura about
Re: The end of Xan?

Oh my god. Yes, let's make it so that ter can't even attack xan, but oh, xan can't be attacked by zik either (later in the round, unless they manage to steal the right ships) and also cath cr, spectres pwn them. So, the only fleet in the long run which is able to hit xans is cath co, but damn, they're emp .

Just because you might like xan doesn't mean they have to be immune to every ****ing attack fleet.

P.S ter sucks anyway because of the high amount of ingal anti de/bs
__________________
R 11 [noob]
R 12 [NoS]
R 13 [Didn't play]
R 14 [VsN] ---> [xVx]
R 15-17 [xVx]
R 18 [eXilition] Semi-retired half round

Last edited by Dotatrix; 3 Jul 2006 at 15:11.
Dotatrix is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 3 Jul 2006, 15:11   #10
JonnyBGood
Banned
 
JonnyBGood's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Further to the right
Posts: 19,441
JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: The end of Xan?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dotatrix
Oh my god. Yes, let's make it so that ter can't even attack xan, but oh, xan can't be attacked by zik either (later in the round, unless they manage to steal the right ships) and also cath cr, spectres pwn them. So, the only fleet in the long run which is able to hit xans is cath co, but damn, they're emp .

Get real.
You're being very one-dimensional in how you're looking at this issue. Look at the way the race percentages are going. Xans won't be able to keep their roids at all. They're going to be raped senseless by every unimaginative simpleton in the game. And because there's so few of them it's going to be much, much worse.


Edit: I think they tried to revolutionise the race paradigms this round but they seemed to do it piecemeal.
__________________
Some might ask what good is life without purpose but I'm anticipating a good lunch.
JonnyBGood is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 3 Jul 2006, 15:15   #11
Dotatrix
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Finland
Posts: 360
Dotatrix has a spectacular aura aboutDotatrix has a spectacular aura about
Re: The end of Xan?

The race percentages don't tell shit at this time imo.

EDIT: Well, they do tell something, but atleast I just picked something and I'm thinking all the time what race to pick. Oh crap, double post :/ JBG, could you delete that other one - thank you.
__________________
R 11 [noob]
R 12 [NoS]
R 13 [Didn't play]
R 14 [VsN] ---> [xVx]
R 15-17 [xVx]
R 18 [eXilition] Semi-retired half round
Dotatrix is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 3 Jul 2006, 15:27   #12
JonnyBGood
Banned
 
JonnyBGood's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Further to the right
Posts: 19,441
JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: The end of Xan?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dotatrix
The race percentages don't tell shit at this time imo.
I'd be rather surprised if they change that much in xan's favour by friday. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if the tendency was in the other direction. Xan fi roiding fleets are really awesome but that doesn't really make up for them being so utterly nerfed in comparison to earlier rounds. I think you have to acknowledge the fact that the % going xan will almost certainly decrease from earlier rounds as they are, rather obviously, worse than they were. Xans are worse than previous rounds, they will have a harder time defending so less people will go xan and the problem will increase.

Quote:
EDIT: Well, they do tell something, but atleast I just picked something and I'm thinking all the time what race to pick.
I'm not too sure what you mean by this.
Quote:
Oh crap, double post :/ JBG, could you delete that other one - thank you.
My pleasure.
__________________
Some might ask what good is life without purpose but I'm anticipating a good lunch.
JonnyBGood is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 3 Jul 2006, 15:34   #13
Dotatrix
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Finland
Posts: 360
Dotatrix has a spectacular aura aboutDotatrix has a spectacular aura about
Re: The end of Xan?

I mean that I just chose a random race without further thinking just to upgrade my planet/get low ID and shit like that. And after that I look at the stats and pick the proper race.

Hope it made sense this time.
__________________
R 11 [noob]
R 12 [NoS]
R 13 [Didn't play]
R 14 [VsN] ---> [xVx]
R 15-17 [xVx]
R 18 [eXilition] Semi-retired half round
Dotatrix is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 3 Jul 2006, 15:37   #14
JonnyBGood
Banned
 
JonnyBGood's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Further to the right
Posts: 19,441
JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: The end of Xan?

I'm not too sure how many people do that. Usually I pick my race when I sign up and set all my engineering and research shit in case I forget when the round starts
__________________
Some might ask what good is life without purpose but I'm anticipating a good lunch.
JonnyBGood is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 3 Jul 2006, 15:41   #15
Dotatrix
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Finland
Posts: 360
Dotatrix has a spectacular aura aboutDotatrix has a spectacular aura about
Re: The end of Xan?

But I'm a geek so I can't forget things like that :crymeariver:
__________________
R 11 [noob]
R 12 [NoS]
R 13 [Didn't play]
R 14 [VsN] ---> [xVx]
R 15-17 [xVx]
R 18 [eXilition] Semi-retired half round
Dotatrix is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 3 Jul 2006, 15:45   #16
Gate
;D!
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,810
Gate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like him
Re: The end of Xan?

If I were xand, I'd just go in a buddypack with 2 ziks. They will be wanting my ships, and I would take their pillagers.

In fact, going on past experience, I would have trouble persuading galmates not to send me their pillagers!
__________________
[ND]
Kicked from Ascendancy
Proud to have been a Dark Lord Rising.
Gate is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 3 Jul 2006, 15:52   #17
JonnyBGood
Banned
 
JonnyBGood's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Further to the right
Posts: 19,441
JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: The end of Xan?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gate
If I were xand, I'd just go in a buddypack with 2 ziks. They will be wanting my ships, and I would take their pillagers.

In fact, going on past experience, I would have trouble persuading galmates not to send me their pillagers!
Yeah, it combos up nicely. So really who this penalises is new players coming into the game without organised buddypacks and alliances.
__________________
Some might ask what good is life without purpose but I'm anticipating a good lunch.
JonnyBGood is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 3 Jul 2006, 16:15   #18
ArcChas
General (Adjective Army)
 
ArcChas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Yorkshire, England.
Posts: 825
ArcChas has much to be proud ofArcChas has much to be proud ofArcChas has much to be proud ofArcChas has much to be proud ofArcChas has much to be proud ofArcChas has much to be proud ofArcChas has much to be proud ofArcChas has much to be proud of
Re: The end of Xan?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dotatrix
Just because you might like xan doesn't mean they have to be immune to every ****ing attack fleet.
Excellent argument - cogently expressed.
__________________
Amnion (aka The Arcane Chas of Arcania) - Playing PA under those and other pseudonyms every genuine round since Round 2. Most recently (and insignificantly):
Onset of Apathy R94 | Stacks of Resources R95 | The Necromancer of Dol Guldur R96
70 Years of Queen Elizabeth R97 | Worst of The Worst R98
Knights of the Green Shield R99 | Look Out of The Window R100 | Most of All R102
Hard of Hearing (2:7:1) R103 | The Lateness of Your Application (1:6:6) R104 | Kinnison of Tellus (5:1:2) R105
ArcChas is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 3 Jul 2006, 16:19   #19
Gate
;D!
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,810
Gate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like him
Re: The end of Xan?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
Yeah, it combos up nicely. So really who this penalises is new players coming into the game without organised buddypacks and alliances.
Hasn't it been the same for, like, ever? In which case, they can still survive by getting lucky: having a single terran, cathaar or zikonian in the galaxy who owns some anti DE for example. Or joining an alliance with a cathaar or terran in it.

The only ways to work around this are to make every race immune to everything so that good defence is not needed, to make every ship shoot each other and whoever has most wins, or just to give everyone EMP.

The only example I can think of where this completeley ruined a round was the r15 tzen/vsh war crime.
__________________
[ND]
Kicked from Ascendancy
Proud to have been a Dark Lord Rising.
Gate is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 3 Jul 2006, 16:27   #20
JonnyBGood
Banned
 
JonnyBGood's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Further to the right
Posts: 19,441
JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: The end of Xan?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gate
Hasn't it been the same for, like, ever? In which case, they can still survive by getting lucky: having a single terran, cathaar or zikonian in the galaxy who owns some anti DE for example. Or joining an alliance with a cathaar or terran in it.
I'm saying it penalises them even more than it did before.

Truth be told I was going to go xan (lokken's fetish for killing things rubbed off on me (fyi this is why lokken is a great DC but a terrible MO, he can't organise things that don't involve something dying ) until I saw this thread and looked at the stats myself.
__________________
Some might ask what good is life without purpose but I'm anticipating a good lunch.
JonnyBGood is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 3 Jul 2006, 20:00   #21
sjn
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 13
sjn is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: The end of Xan?

I too was pretty sure about going Xan, until i read this thread, initially I was gonna go Cath but then I decided I liked to kill stuff too much

I was aware that the Pulsar was basically a pricey game of chicken for Xan against Terran (thats if you can actually afford to build enough whilst keeping a balanced fleet) but could get passed that coz it has lots of positives, like FI attacking fleet, low eta, cheap ships etc. However after looking at the Misc screen in game now (ta JBG) the odds seem to be stacked out of favour for the Xan - 32 % Terran and 31% Zik?!

Not only does Xan get hit first by terran DE (peg) but also by Zik Fr (brigand) and then there are the BS fleets both again Terran and Zik and you got 1 ship - the wraith. Xans could end up being drains on there allys and gals this round and so become a less favourable choice?

It's not that the stats are "so bad" - the ratio of race to race seems totally skewed though.
sjn is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 4 Jul 2006, 01:34   #22
Travler
Bona Fide Jesus Freak
 
Travler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: In the Word of the Lord
Posts: 765
Travler is a name known to allTravler is a name known to allTravler is a name known to allTravler is a name known to allTravler is a name known to allTravler is a name known to all
Re: The end of Xan?

I imagine that PA team will make a final change before the round starts. Without testing ofc.
__________________
Matthew 24:9 (New International Version) "Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me."
Who the hell gave you posrep you christian fundamentalist?
god is bollox, mkay and you are not discussing it
You're not the voice of Christianity di**head.

CT R22-20, [1up] R18-16, TGV R15,
The Illuminati - [NoS] - R14-13
Travler is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 4 Jul 2006, 06:17   #23
rasputini
Love monkey
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 31
rasputini is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: The end of Xan?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gate
If I were xand, I'd just go in a buddypack with 2 ziks. They will be wanting my ships, and I would take their pillagers.
This is so true. The problem is that as a Xan, you would become an enabler. The ziks in your gal would do well, but you yourself would not gain anything other than galmates happy to send ships at you in def. You'd still lose the roids everytime, if the attacker was willing to land.
__________________
Rasputin
Proud to have been [WP][NoS][Angels][subh][ND][Omen][1up][CT][TGV][eXi][VGN][ASC]
rasputini is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 4 Jul 2006, 16:17   #24
Gate
;D!
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,810
Gate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like him
Re: The end of Xan?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sjn
Not only does Xan get hit first by terran DE (peg) but also by Zik Fr (brigand) and then there are the BS fleets both again Terran and Zik and you got 1 ship - the wraith. Xans could end up being drains on there allys and gals this round and so become a less favourable choice?
Stats I see have brigand and vsharrak at same init, so it's a game of chicken. Whoever has least ships wins it, though a handful of lancer or merely a big fleet of vsh should be enough to scare off zik FR. Not to mention that most ziks should really be going the BS route going on current stats!

Which is where I think xands will have an advantage: a lot of ziks should be going BS, and a lot of terrans might do the same as well. The wraith is a nice looking ship that is well worth investing in and should really sort out most BS related problems, or at least make it so you only need 1 fleet of defence.

I'm seriously tempted to play as xand now and just see what's so bad about them, because I think they look pretty decent
__________________
[ND]
Kicked from Ascendancy
Proud to have been a Dark Lord Rising.
Gate is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 4 Jul 2006, 16:20   #25
ArcChas
General (Adjective Army)
 
ArcChas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Yorkshire, England.
Posts: 825
ArcChas has much to be proud ofArcChas has much to be proud ofArcChas has much to be proud ofArcChas has much to be proud ofArcChas has much to be proud ofArcChas has much to be proud ofArcChas has much to be proud ofArcChas has much to be proud of
Re: The end of Xan?

I suggest you take another look:

Name Class Target Type Init
Vsharrak Fighter Frigate Norm 5
Brigand Frigate Fighter Norm 4

I'm guessing this might lessen the temptation somewhat.

But seriously - even at the same init Xan would always have to run or die. The only time it pays for Xans to stand "toe-to-toe" with an enemy force is against another Xan and only then if the opponent has the larger fleet. In such battles the smaller force always inflicts more damage than it suffers - probably something to do with the "high damage / low armour" philosophy of the race. This philosophy has to be reinforced by the low initiative required to lessen the damage that will be wreaked when the remaining enemy ships retaliate. In other words, Xan MUST fire first to reduce the losses to an acceptable level.
__________________
Amnion (aka The Arcane Chas of Arcania) - Playing PA under those and other pseudonyms every genuine round since Round 2. Most recently (and insignificantly):
Onset of Apathy R94 | Stacks of Resources R95 | The Necromancer of Dol Guldur R96
70 Years of Queen Elizabeth R97 | Worst of The Worst R98
Knights of the Green Shield R99 | Look Out of The Window R100 | Most of All R102
Hard of Hearing (2:7:1) R103 | The Lateness of Your Application (1:6:6) R104 | Kinnison of Tellus (5:1:2) R105

Last edited by ArcChas; 4 Jul 2006 at 16:29.
ArcChas is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 4 Jul 2006, 19:26   #26
The Real Arfy
Registered User
 
The Real Arfy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,081
The Real Arfy has a reputation beyond reputeThe Real Arfy has a reputation beyond reputeThe Real Arfy has a reputation beyond reputeThe Real Arfy has a reputation beyond reputeThe Real Arfy has a reputation beyond reputeThe Real Arfy has a reputation beyond reputeThe Real Arfy has a reputation beyond reputeThe Real Arfy has a reputation beyond reputeThe Real Arfy has a reputation beyond reputeThe Real Arfy has a reputation beyond reputeThe Real Arfy has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The end of Xan?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArcChas
I suggest you take another look:

Name Class Target Type Init
Vsharrak Fighter Frigate Norm 5
Brigand Frigate Fighter Norm 4

I'm guessing this might lessen the temptation somewhat.

But seriously - even at the same init Xan would always have to run or die. The only time it pays for Xans to stand "toe-to-toe" with an enemy force is against another Xan and only then if the opponent has the larger fleet. In such battles the smaller force always inflicts more damage than it suffers - probably something to do with the "high damage / low armour" philosophy of the race. This philosophy has to be reinforced by the low initiative required to lessen the damage that will be wreaked when the remaining enemy ships retaliate. In other words, Xan MUST fire first to reduce the losses to an acceptable level.
Take a look at the beta stats (which really have to be kept in sync with the game stats btw) because the Brigand is now init 5.

I agree with the issue of the "keeping race characteristics" and I'm shocked that the pegasus is STILL init 4, due to Terrans being 'meant to' flak through defence, not kill it first AND have outstanding armour.

I'd change the viper targetting to FR, and raise the peg to initiative 6, or at least 5.
__________________
Dynamic Salvage!

[16:10:34] <[lfc]stif|afk> "dont be the worst in your alliance, join CT. We have Arfy!"
The Real Arfy is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 4 Jul 2006, 20:40   #27
Gate
;D!
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,810
Gate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like him
Re: The end of Xan?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArcChas
But seriously - even at the same init Xan would always have to run or die. The only time it pays for Xans to stand "toe-to-toe" with an enemy force is against another Xan and only then if the opponent has the larger fleet. In such battles the smaller force always inflicts more damage than it suffers - probably something to do with the "high damage / low armour" philosophy of the race. This philosophy has to be reinforced by the low initiative required to lessen the damage that will be wreaked when the remaining enemy ships retaliate. In other words, Xan MUST fire first to reduce the losses to an acceptable level.
Why are things any different for the zik? I mean, why should ziks be able to take the same level of losses? This is particularly true in a situation where it is the zikonian who is attacking.

Firstly, the xandathrii target will receive salvage for ships he loses and ships he kills, the zik attacker won't (on a few occasions, this has encouraged me to stay at home to destroy an annoying attack fleet).
Secondly, it's actually true again that the 'smaller fleet wins'. The Vsharrak kills more than its value, so just have less value at home.
Thirdly, an attacking fleet is also likely to contain pods, potentially stolen FR and cutters. This means that whilst the defender can just leave vsharraks at home (Maybe even not losing all of them), the attacker will ahve all those ships stuck in the battle and can suffer significantly higher losses.
Finally, a xand can build some lancers if he or she is that desperate to be utterly immune to zik frigs.

Basically, I don't get why in a head to head battle between xand vsh and zik FR that the xand is automatically forced to run whereas the zik has no such problems. But had the stats been with a brigand init 4, I would have agreed with you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Real Arfy
I'd change the viper targetting to FR, and raise the peg to initiative 6, or at least 5.
2 FR EMPers?
__________________
[ND]
Kicked from Ascendancy
Proud to have been a Dark Lord Rising.
Gate is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 4 Jul 2006, 23:06   #28
ArcChas
General (Adjective Army)
 
ArcChas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Yorkshire, England.
Posts: 825
ArcChas has much to be proud ofArcChas has much to be proud ofArcChas has much to be proud ofArcChas has much to be proud ofArcChas has much to be proud ofArcChas has much to be proud ofArcChas has much to be proud ofArcChas has much to be proud of
Re: The end of Xan?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gate
Why are things any different for the zik? I mean, why should ziks be able to take the same level of losses?
Because Ziks aren't supposed to be able to compete on their own. Their strategy has to be based around stealing a viable fleet. Otherwise what's the point in having them? We may as well just have 3 races.

I agree with most of your other comments though. Salvage is the only reason it's ever worth trying to defend your roids (as a Xan) and even then I'd only do it if I inflicted more damage on the attacker than I'd suffer myself.

And I'd definitely choose Lancers to defend against Brigands - if I could afford to buy them.

I'd need to run a bcalc or two to see if the Vsharrak vs Brigand would be viable with the amended inits. My experience has been that effectiveness of the smaller fleet is reduced by the higher armour of the attackers.

Well, like I said in my opening post, "I can only hope that these stats aren't final." Your replies have at least given me hope.
__________________
Amnion (aka The Arcane Chas of Arcania) - Playing PA under those and other pseudonyms every genuine round since Round 2. Most recently (and insignificantly):
Onset of Apathy R94 | Stacks of Resources R95 | The Necromancer of Dol Guldur R96
70 Years of Queen Elizabeth R97 | Worst of The Worst R98
Knights of the Green Shield R99 | Look Out of The Window R100 | Most of All R102
Hard of Hearing (2:7:1) R103 | The Lateness of Your Application (1:6:6) R104 | Kinnison of Tellus (5:1:2) R105

Last edited by ArcChas; 4 Jul 2006 at 23:19.
ArcChas is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 4 Jul 2006, 23:20   #29
Gate
;D!
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,810
Gate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like him
Re: The end of Xan?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArcChas
Because Ziks aren't supposed to be able to compete on their own. Their strategy has to be based around stealing a viable fleet.
The FR fleet is pure killships (so it can't even bounce), whilst it's impossible to steal FR that stop vsh from firing, so the point of xand being extremely difficult to hit with FR stands IMO.

The only option I see is to combine mass CO with mass FR, but I don't see the point when you're going to need a lot of beetles, and if you've nicked beetles you probably got pods with them.

Even if you use a cath wingmate, there's not all that much benefit to either of you to pair up with such a fleet (zik FR + cath CO)
__________________
[ND]
Kicked from Ascendancy
Proud to have been a Dark Lord Rising.
Gate is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 4 Jul 2006, 23:51   #30
ArcChas
General (Adjective Army)
 
ArcChas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Yorkshire, England.
Posts: 825
ArcChas has much to be proud ofArcChas has much to be proud ofArcChas has much to be proud ofArcChas has much to be proud ofArcChas has much to be proud ofArcChas has much to be proud ofArcChas has much to be proud ofArcChas has much to be proud of
Re: The end of Xan?

It looks like you replied to my last post before I'd finished my major revision of it - my fault for being so slow.

Still, I agree that a Zik Fr fleet wouldn't choose Xan as a target - I just don't see that as being a problem. The "rock/paper/scissors" is supposed to be Xan>Terran>Cath>Xan - Zik don't even appear in there before they have stolen a fleet or two - and then they can pick their targets according to their (stolen) fleets.
__________________
Amnion (aka The Arcane Chas of Arcania) - Playing PA under those and other pseudonyms every genuine round since Round 2. Most recently (and insignificantly):
Onset of Apathy R94 | Stacks of Resources R95 | The Necromancer of Dol Guldur R96
70 Years of Queen Elizabeth R97 | Worst of The Worst R98
Knights of the Green Shield R99 | Look Out of The Window R100 | Most of All R102
Hard of Hearing (2:7:1) R103 | The Lateness of Your Application (1:6:6) R104 | Kinnison of Tellus (5:1:2) R105
ArcChas is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 5 Jul 2006, 09:39   #31
Gate
;D!
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,810
Gate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like him
Re: The end of Xan?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArcChas
Still, I agree that a Zik Fr fleet wouldn't choose Xan as a target - I just don't see that as being a problem. The "rock/paper/scissors" is supposed to be Xan>Terran>Cath>Xan - Zik don't even appear in there before they have stolen a fleet or two - and then they can pick their targets according to their (stolen) fleets.
But rock paper scissors was shown to be flawed and hasn't been used since r11
__________________
[ND]
Kicked from Ascendancy
Proud to have been a Dark Lord Rising.
Gate is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 5 Jul 2006, 16:35   #32
ArcChas
General (Adjective Army)
 
ArcChas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Yorkshire, England.
Posts: 825
ArcChas has much to be proud ofArcChas has much to be proud ofArcChas has much to be proud ofArcChas has much to be proud ofArcChas has much to be proud ofArcChas has much to be proud ofArcChas has much to be proud ofArcChas has much to be proud of
Re: The end of Xan?

LOL

Well, that explains why it doesn't seem to be working very well.
__________________
Amnion (aka The Arcane Chas of Arcania) - Playing PA under those and other pseudonyms every genuine round since Round 2. Most recently (and insignificantly):
Onset of Apathy R94 | Stacks of Resources R95 | The Necromancer of Dol Guldur R96
70 Years of Queen Elizabeth R97 | Worst of The Worst R98
Knights of the Green Shield R99 | Look Out of The Window R100 | Most of All R102
Hard of Hearing (2:7:1) R103 | The Lateness of Your Application (1:6:6) R104 | Kinnison of Tellus (5:1:2) R105
ArcChas is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 6 Jul 2006, 08:04   #33
Rocko
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 327
Rocko is a glorious beacon of lightRocko is a glorious beacon of lightRocko is a glorious beacon of lightRocko is a glorious beacon of lightRocko is a glorious beacon of light
Re: The end of Xan?

looks like Xan's have the easy life now nothing that fires against Fi, that it dosnt target,... unlike every other attacking fleet
__________________
Rocko
Rocko is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 6 Jul 2006, 09:13   #34
K-W
Bored
 
K-W's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: A Persistant Universe
Posts: 1,583
K-W has a reputation beyond reputeK-W has a reputation beyond reputeK-W has a reputation beyond reputeK-W has a reputation beyond reputeK-W has a reputation beyond reputeK-W has a reputation beyond reputeK-W has a reputation beyond reputeK-W has a reputation beyond reputeK-W has a reputation beyond reputeK-W has a reputation beyond reputeK-W has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The end of Xan?

Gives them a way to replace all the roids they will be losing to terran de fleets.
__________________
Germania
Fury
Mercury & Solace
Conspiracy Theory, Wrath, 1up, ICD, Eclipse
K-W is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 6 Jul 2006, 16:44   #35
ArcChas
General (Adjective Army)
 
ArcChas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Yorkshire, England.
Posts: 825
ArcChas has much to be proud ofArcChas has much to be proud ofArcChas has much to be proud ofArcChas has much to be proud ofArcChas has much to be proud ofArcChas has much to be proud ofArcChas has much to be proud ofArcChas has much to be proud of
Re: The end of Xan?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocko
looks like Xan's have the easy life now nothing that fires against Fi, that it dosnt target,... unlike every other attacking fleet
Yep - they can be roided for free by Cath Co, Terran De and Zik stolen fleets. Definitely an easy life.

So - hands up everyone who is going to play Xan.

(The real question is whether to go for Cath or Zik).

<Edit>
Oh, did I forget to mention that Xan Fi attack fleets will always suffer heavy losses if the target leaves ships at home?
__________________
Amnion (aka The Arcane Chas of Arcania) - Playing PA under those and other pseudonyms every genuine round since Round 2. Most recently (and insignificantly):
Onset of Apathy R94 | Stacks of Resources R95 | The Necromancer of Dol Guldur R96
70 Years of Queen Elizabeth R97 | Worst of The Worst R98
Knights of the Green Shield R99 | Look Out of The Window R100 | Most of All R102
Hard of Hearing (2:7:1) R103 | The Lateness of Your Application (1:6:6) R104 | Kinnison of Tellus (5:1:2) R105
ArcChas is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 6 Jul 2006, 19:01   #36
Rocko
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 327
Rocko is a glorious beacon of lightRocko is a glorious beacon of lightRocko is a glorious beacon of lightRocko is a glorious beacon of lightRocko is a glorious beacon of light
Re: The end of Xan?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArcChas
<Edit>
Oh, did I forget to mention that Xan Fi attack fleets will always suffer heavy losses if the target leaves ships at home?
and so will the targets ships he's left home,.. If they suvive at all
__________________
Rocko
Rocko is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 6 Jul 2006, 19:56   #37
ArcChas
General (Adjective Army)
 
ArcChas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Yorkshire, England.
Posts: 825
ArcChas has much to be proud ofArcChas has much to be proud ofArcChas has much to be proud ofArcChas has much to be proud ofArcChas has much to be proud ofArcChas has much to be proud ofArcChas has much to be proud ofArcChas has much to be proud of
Re: The end of Xan?

See previous comments about the fragility of Xan ships when fired upon. It's even worse when attacking (no salvage).

I'm still not seeing any useful input about whether to choose Cath or Zik.
__________________
Amnion (aka The Arcane Chas of Arcania) - Playing PA under those and other pseudonyms every genuine round since Round 2. Most recently (and insignificantly):
Onset of Apathy R94 | Stacks of Resources R95 | The Necromancer of Dol Guldur R96
70 Years of Queen Elizabeth R97 | Worst of The Worst R98
Knights of the Green Shield R99 | Look Out of The Window R100 | Most of All R102
Hard of Hearing (2:7:1) R103 | The Lateness of Your Application (1:6:6) R104 | Kinnison of Tellus (5:1:2) R105
ArcChas is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 6 Jul 2006, 22:53   #38
sjn
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 13
sjn is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: The end of Xan?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArcChas
I'm still not seeing any useful input about whether to choose Cath or Zik.
Come on people lets go, i can't decide either! :crymeariver:

I suppose I like Cath because they have 2 anti DE fleets, 2 anti BS fleets and since 63% on the universe is either Zik or Terran it makes sense , and they also have anti FR for zik that zik don't target so not too bad there either. However, offensively I am not so sure about Cath. cath has CO fleet to attack with most of the uni being Terr / Zik this is poor coz both Zik / Terr have 2 options to def CO. Cath CR looks better as it appears to be a numbers game of taras v's chims and roach (with some BW's?) v's pirate. Its way passed my bed time but just my 2 cents.

With regards to choosing Zik thats easy - i can't (& don't like to) play them
sjn is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 7 Jul 2006, 10:55   #39
Tietäjä
Good Son
 
Tietäjä's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Finland
Posts: 3,991
Tietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better place
Re: The end of Xan?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sjn
RANT
You dare call recluse antidestroyer? Where I come from, we call it trash. What's the benefit of having two mediocre antibattleship fleets when you can have one solid (dragon, wraith)? Like building loads of useless shit (by the way, zikonians have two anti-bs fleets too, rogue and buccaneer). 63% of the universe is terran or zikonian, yeah, in general, though, of the 30% that are terran 5% are "players" and the rest 24,5% are "less educated race choosers" (what remains are scanners). There's a load of just plain useless ships around - if I played zikonian, I would build a ton of rogues just to amuse people that scan me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArcChas
Yep - they can be roided for free by Cath Co, Terran De and Zik stolen fleets. Definitely an easy life.

So - hands up everyone who is going to play Xan.

(The real question is whether to go for Cath or Zik).

<Edit>
Oh, did I forget to mention that Xan Fi attack fleets will always suffer heavy losses if the target leaves ships at home?
Oh yeah, zik stolen fleets. Who doesn't get roided free by a zik that has a larger (insert pod fleet type) than any of the (insert pod fleet type's home race) players? I remember when I had twice as many beetles as any cathaar I bumped into, then yeah zikonian will be hard to stop - not just for xan, though.

So, beetles. Last round, xandathrii fighters were weaker and the beetle was stronger. Yet, inevitably, we ran into an unvierse were cathaars were being mindlessly roided by fighter masses (except for the few top caths, the Omen 1up war pretty much prooved your claims rather ineffectual in practise), even though there was a solid beetle and shadow and brigand (that were zero-loss) around. Cool, right? At the same time, cathaar was getting "free roids" because of the "effective recluse" and "poor banshee".

This round, the major difference between cathaar to last round is, that cathaar have no viciously strong zero loss kill ships (scorpion, mantis) that covered 4 pod fleets single handedly with half assed investments. Ri-ight, the corvette fleet is good, but it won't be of comfort when you're roided, raped, roided, raped, structure smashed, roided, and raped. (seriously, jim, seriously).

What, terrans. Yeah, I heard terrans are ace because 18% of the universe are xandathrii and have absolutely no antidestroyers. NEWSFLASH VERSION 1.0, terrans have no antifighters to speak of any higher than pulsars. What does this mean? If we assume, cogito dumb, that a terran can roid a xan for free he's really getting it right back at his face.

With the following differences: when attacking with fighters, you do not need to worry about a zero-loss defence ship that runs faster than your attack fleet (harpy hi hi), nor two other zero-loss defence ships (say hi to wyvern and pillager). Okay okay, you take damage if they leave ships home. On the medium level nowadays, most people have the brains to dodge their fleet. On low level, all don't have antifighters because "xandathrii is so shit". On top level, it's called idiotic suicide if you leave your 500 brigands home so you can smash a few xandathrii fighters to successively get owned in the face *and* roided anyways.

Now, when you figure out another attack fleet in addition to destroyers that can roid xandathrii for free, toss me a note. It's not easy. On the other hand, you might not want me to get started about what can roid a cathaar. Really.

Now, when we get started about zikonians. Fair enough, the battleship fleet is very good with the ability to bounce a lot of defences. Beyond that, you'll have trouble, but that's just characteristic for zikonians. The fighter/corvette/frigate axis is strange, and in my opinion the frigate fleet is weird. Right, we shall see, the possible problems zikonians might face is the boom of anti-battleships (dragons, wraiths, buccaneers, roaches) which would result from the fact that both zikonians and terrans (as said, 63% of the universe), invest more or less into battleships (so closer to 50% of the universe would have battleships as their main fleet). After that, you're left with a shit frigate fleet (sorry kids), and your skills. This is where you cut the difference between the players.

Terrans. Yeah, pretty decent. It's just the fact that fighters and cruisers will cause trouble. And kids that have more dragons than you do, should you have invested heavily in destroyers. Interesting bits though, I'd rank it fighting pretty good with zikonians for the "second best race of the round" award.

Ah well. I'm bored at work, and wanted to take out a little aggression, rant off.


.edit. typofix
__________________
"Oh, wretched race of a day, children of chance and misery, why do ye compel me to say to you what it were most expedient for you not to hear? What is best of all is for ever beyond your reach: not to be born, not to be, to be nothing. The second best for you, however, is soon to die". Silenus, tutor to Dionysos, speaking to King Midas.

Last edited by Tietäjä; 7 Jul 2006 at 11:28.
Tietäjä is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 7 Jul 2006, 11:11   #40
Kargool
Up The Hatters!
 
Kargool's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Kenilworth Road
Posts: 3,012
Kargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet society
Re: The end of Xan?

My myself are considering building a 1337 Terran FI roiding fleet or a Cath DE roiding fleet. Im abit unsure about the Xan CO roidingfleet as I still havent found their CO roiders. :crazyxmas:
__________________
Planetarion veteran
Kargool is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 7 Jul 2006, 13:19   #41
ArcChas
General (Adjective Army)
 
ArcChas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Yorkshire, England.
Posts: 825
ArcChas has much to be proud ofArcChas has much to be proud ofArcChas has much to be proud ofArcChas has much to be proud ofArcChas has much to be proud ofArcChas has much to be proud ofArcChas has much to be proud ofArcChas has much to be proud of
Re: The end of Xan?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tietäjä
Ah well. I'm bored at work, and wanted to take out a little aggression, rant off.
Thanks for that. At least it gave us a few points to think about.
__________________
Amnion (aka The Arcane Chas of Arcania) - Playing PA under those and other pseudonyms every genuine round since Round 2. Most recently (and insignificantly):
Onset of Apathy R94 | Stacks of Resources R95 | The Necromancer of Dol Guldur R96
70 Years of Queen Elizabeth R97 | Worst of The Worst R98
Knights of the Green Shield R99 | Look Out of The Window R100 | Most of All R102
Hard of Hearing (2:7:1) R103 | The Lateness of Your Application (1:6:6) R104 | Kinnison of Tellus (5:1:2) R105
ArcChas is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 7 Jul 2006, 15:05   #42
K-W
Bored
 
K-W's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: A Persistant Universe
Posts: 1,583
K-W has a reputation beyond reputeK-W has a reputation beyond reputeK-W has a reputation beyond reputeK-W has a reputation beyond reputeK-W has a reputation beyond reputeK-W has a reputation beyond reputeK-W has a reputation beyond reputeK-W has a reputation beyond reputeK-W has a reputation beyond reputeK-W has a reputation beyond reputeK-W has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The end of Xan?

Keizari is pretty much right on. Xan have dropped back into the pack as far as far as self-defence is concerned, but they aren't a bad race per se. While this will certainly be a different round for xandrathii now that they have a wide open hole in thier defences, an effective fi roiding fleet means that xans shouldnt have to rely on roid hoarding and can replace them at a reasonable rate. So xans are pretty much in the same boat as ter or cath, can be roided, but can roid back.

This may however mean that xans will have a hard time outbuilding caths as well as previous rounds so co and cr roiding fleets may be more effective on xans for longer into the round.

I do think there are going to alot of active terrans in the universe, so the peg threat is very real, but de is easier to get defence for than fighters so it probably is a wash. More threats = more targets.

Its frustrating for those used to playing xandrathii where how you design your defence and not the innate stats determine who will attack you, but just because xan have holes in thier fleets like everyone else doesnt make them less playable than everyone else.
__________________
Germania
Fury
Mercury & Solace
Conspiracy Theory, Wrath, 1up, ICD, Eclipse

Last edited by K-W; 7 Jul 2006 at 15:24.
K-W is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 7 Jul 2006, 16:47   #43
Tietäjä
Good Son
 
Tietäjä's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Finland
Posts: 3,991
Tietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better place
Re: The end of Xan?

Quote:
Originally Posted by K-W
This may however mean that xans will have a hard time outbuilding caths as well as previous rounds so co and cr roiding fleets may be more effective on xans for longer into the round.
This is quite where you go wrong. Longer in to the round, there's spectres available, and xandathrii fleets will be more focused than cathaar fleets. Cathaar that "thrive" are forced to spread their fleet more (as we expect a fairly fluid round, more than last one), and really, this is where EMP bites. Cruisers aren't really worth it against xandathrii. Corvettes can cut it, if you have enough beetles, but that means you need to invest a lot into them, as vsharrak and phantom just cover so much more roles then beetles do. Cathaars would obviously prefer attacking terrans with cruisers - not xandathrii, who will eventually have the hard (and first) hitting spectre (in compared to the terran gryphon).

Cathaars tend to suffer from fluid, warmongry rounds. And the statistics for them aren't (even comparatively) as good as they were last round; and last round it was very hard for caths outside top10/huge galaxies.

Quote:
I do think there are going to alot of active terrans in the universe, so the peg threat is very real, but de is easier to get defence for than fighters so it probably is a wash. More threats = more targets.
Possibly. Even so, terrans can just theoretically roidswap with xandathrii. Plus, a lot of terrans also means a lot of zero-loss antidestroyer. I agree with the fact that terrans pose a fairly large threat, but it works both ways. There is absolutely no way for a terran to deal with fighters, and fighters are generally a lot harder to defend against than destroyers.


Quote:
Its frustrating for those used to playing xandrathii where how you design your defence and not the innate stats determine who will attack you, but just because xan have holes in thier fleets like everyone else doesnt make them less playable than everyone else.
Holes? I see just on real hole. I do not believe there will be cathaars able to attack medium-large xandathrii on the long run. Cathaars will probably just get roided quite hard, as they have holes against fighters, corvettes, destroyers, cruisers, and battleships. In compared to the fact that terrans are mostly weak against cruisers, and xandathrii against destroyers. Zikonian is a different story.
__________________
"Oh, wretched race of a day, children of chance and misery, why do ye compel me to say to you what it were most expedient for you not to hear? What is best of all is for ever beyond your reach: not to be born, not to be, to be nothing. The second best for you, however, is soon to die". Silenus, tutor to Dionysos, speaking to King Midas.
Tietäjä is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 7 Jul 2006, 19:22   #44
K-W
Bored
 
K-W's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: A Persistant Universe
Posts: 1,583
K-W has a reputation beyond reputeK-W has a reputation beyond reputeK-W has a reputation beyond reputeK-W has a reputation beyond reputeK-W has a reputation beyond reputeK-W has a reputation beyond reputeK-W has a reputation beyond reputeK-W has a reputation beyond reputeK-W has a reputation beyond reputeK-W has a reputation beyond reputeK-W has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The end of Xan?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tietäjä
This is quite where you go wrong. Longer in to the round, there's spectres available, and xandathrii fleets will be more focused than cathaar fleets. Cathaar that "thrive" are forced to spread their fleet more (as we expect a fairly fluid round, more than last one), and really, this is where EMP bites. Cruisers aren't really worth it against xandathrii. Corvettes can cut it, if you have enough beetles, but that means you need to invest a lot into them, as vsharrak and phantom just cover so much more roles then beetles do. Cathaars would obviously prefer attacking terrans with cruisers - not xandathrii, who will eventually have the hard (and first) hitting spectre (in compared to the terran gryphon).
Indeed Spectres change the equation on cruisers, regardless of course you are right that xans should be able to outbuild caths with fighters, but this might take a bit longer than it might have if xans were less vulnerable. Thats all im saying. Also, you point out that caths have to spread thier value around, so do xans for the same reasons. Caths who invest in co for attacks will be able to roid many xans for some time.

[quote]Cathaars tend to suffer from fluid, warmongry rounds. And the statistics for them aren't (even comparatively) as good as they were last round; and last round it was very hard for caths outside top10/huge galaxies.[.quote]

Certainly if cath have a horrible round it would mitigate any possible change in the xan advantage due to the new stats.

Quote:
Possibly. Even so, terrans can just theoretically roidswap with xandathrii. Plus, a lot of terrans also means a lot of zero-loss antidestroyer. I agree with the fact that terrans pose a fairly large threat, but it works both ways. There is absolutely no way for a terran to deal with fighters, and fighters are generally a lot harder to defend against than destroyers.
We certainly agree on that.




Quote:
Holes? I see just on real hole. I do not believe there will be cathaars able to attack medium-large xandathrii on the long run. Cathaars will probably just get roided quite hard, as they have holes against fighters, corvettes, destroyers, cruisers, and battleships. In compared to the fact that terrans are mostly weak against cruisers, and xandathrii against destroyers. Zikonian is a different story.
Sorry hole... but that really isnt important to my point.

Yes in the long run caths will not be able to hit xans, but theres going to be lots of ticks before then where they will be.

We both agree that xan is a solid race with good attack options and good defence options. Its just a change in how the race is going to be played to have a vulnerability to terran de coded in.
__________________
Germania
Fury
Mercury & Solace
Conspiracy Theory, Wrath, 1up, ICD, Eclipse
K-W is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 7 Jul 2006, 19:24   #45
Tietäjä
Good Son
 
Tietäjä's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Finland
Posts: 3,991
Tietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better place
Re: The end of Xan?

Generally, though, you can do stronger passive defences as xan spending less resources to defence ships than you have to spend as cath, zik, or terran. This is why xandathrii attack fleets are usually large in compared to their values. The destroyer vulnerability is a bit of a pain yeah, but generally other races have more vulnerabilities. Especially cathaar.
__________________
"Oh, wretched race of a day, children of chance and misery, why do ye compel me to say to you what it were most expedient for you not to hear? What is best of all is for ever beyond your reach: not to be born, not to be, to be nothing. The second best for you, however, is soon to die". Silenus, tutor to Dionysos, speaking to King Midas.
Tietäjä is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 8 Jul 2006, 18:14   #46
sjn
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 13
sjn is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: The end of Xan?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArcChas
So - hands up everyone who is going to play Xan.
I chose Xan in the end
sjn is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 8 Jul 2006, 22:03   #47
Gate
;D!
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,810
Gate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like him
Re: The end of Xan?

I'm wondering just how terrible this vulnerability is.

For example, pegs kill pulsars at 75% efficiency, but vsh kill chimera at 83% efficiency...

As comparisons:
Round 15 tzen killed vsh at 100% efficiency. Round 17 shadow killed mandrake at 69% efficiency. So it's somewhere 'in between', and I don't think it will completely screw the round for xands. Particularly considering how happy ziks will be to get their hands on free ships. Particularly barghs!
__________________
[ND]
Kicked from Ascendancy
Proud to have been a Dark Lord Rising.
Gate is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 19:01.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2002 - 2018