![Reply](STYLES/Planetarion2/buttons/reply.gif) |
23 Jul 2014, 14:47
|
#1
|
Awesome
Join Date: May 2005
Location: The Hague
Posts: 291
|
Alternative alliance point system
This will have to replace the current alliance point system which is only calculated as a sum of the top 50 (counted) planet scores in the tag. This system will reward fleet activity, roiding, defending and killing value / structures. Also hidden planets which will be added to the tag at the end of the round will become less of a factor this way. XP sl*lts will also not be able to influence alliance ranks alot just by doing a few high xp landings. xp landing will still be usefull for galaxy and planet rankings.
Rewarded points = base_points * ((target_alliance_counted_score / number of members) / ( your_alliance_counted_score / number of members ))
This calculation will only be used on point 2, 3, 4 and 7. The remaining ones always get rewarded by the maximum amount of points.
To prevent smaller alliances being greatly awarded for landing on top alliances while the top alliances barely have anything to gain a cap will be placed on the max multiplier. Instead of an alliance gaining 50% more points by being half the average score of the alliance they hit it will be capped on a 25% bonus instead.
So Alliance A having an average score of 1 million hitting alliance B having an average score of 2 million will only be rewarded with: Rewarded points = base_points * 1.25 (instead of Rewarded points = base_points * 1.50) There will be no cap on bigger alliances hitting smaller alliances. So the previous situation turned around will look like:
Alliance A having an average score of 2 million hitting alliance B having an average score of 1 million will be rewarded with: Rewarded points = base_points * 0.5 (1) Fleets launchedWhen launching a fleet the alliance gains 2 points for every tick the fleet is moving. This is the same for defending and attacking fleets. Defending fleets being launched ingal get rewarded 3 points every tick they are on the move. These ingal defence fleets still get rewarded even if the defended planet is not allied.
Note: The points are only rewarded when both an attacking fleet and defending fleet are present, kind of in the same fashion as how xp is rewarded atm (2) Landing an attack / defenceIf an alliance lands an attack on another alliance, they get 30 points.
If several alliance members land in the same tick on the same planet, they still only get 30 points.
If an attacker lands an attack, all defenders present that are a member of the defending planet's alliance or any of its allies get 30 points. So each alliance who has a defender present when the attacker lands gains 30 points. (3) Getting an attacker to recallIf an attacker recalls, any alliances defending against that attack fleet that are allied with the target planet's alliance get 10 points. This means the target planet's alliance and any alliances allied to it. This is counted once per defending alliance. Covering large teamups could be very beneficial this way. (4) Value killed / stolen during battle
Winning a battle (killing more then losing) is very rewarding to the alliance when winning the battle. The rewarded points get calculated by substracting the lost value of the total killed value.
1k value killed / stolen = 1 point
1k value lost / stolen = -1 point
This will be capped at 0 points when losing more value then killing. Killing 1 million value in defence while losing 300k value as attackers would reward the attacking alliance with 700 points. These point will be distibutes over the involved alliances based by the % of total value which has been sent. (5) Asteroid(s) cappedWhen landing an attack, the alliance gets rewarded 1 point for each captured asteroid. (6) Asteroid(s) savedWhen the attacking alliance is landing an attack, the defending alliance gains 1 point for each roid capped less than the maxcap which would have been possible. (7) Sk´ingDestroying a structure earns the attacking alliance 10 points for every destroyed structure. (8) ScoreScore will still matter as a contribution to your alliance. 10k score will contribute 1 point to your alliance. This will be calculated for the top 50 planets in tag. So in the previous round CT would have been awarded 34712 points.
- 24/7 10:25 - Changes to: (1) Fleets launched, (8) Score
- 24/7 11:35 - Multiplier cap added to hitting bigger alliances
__________________
Apprime PR - taking away ur problems since 2008
Last edited by Cain; 24 Jul 2014 at 10:40.
|
|
|
23 Jul 2014, 15:47
|
#2
|
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 477
|
Re: Alternative alliance point system
I think determing the winner by the sum of planets like it is now is a easy and good way to rank alliances. It also allows for alliances with worse skilled to compete for high ranks with good politics(teaming up). Keeping the game fluent and alive. Instead of one group of the best players winning over and over.
|
|
|
23 Jul 2014, 16:18
|
#3
|
Error
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 359
|
Re: Alternative alliance point system
imho PA is asking a long time for any kind of change...
this can be one that works...
we have too many atributes ingame that dont give a shit to alliance score. we need to explore them better.
__________________
#braSilFTW
|
|
|
23 Jul 2014, 17:06
|
#4
|
The brother of Spammer
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Paisley - Scotland
Posts: 2,352
|
Re: Alternative alliance point system
I quite like the idea of it
__________________
Missing Subh (r15-r18)
|
|
|
23 Jul 2014, 18:32
|
#5
|
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Holland
Posts: 50
|
Re: Alternative alliance point system
i <3 point system, for flying defence... mayb players sacrifice fleets to defend, on end they have to recall, should be somehow rewarded and this seem to be nice way!
|
|
|
23 Jul 2014, 19:19
|
#6
|
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 707
|
Re: Alternative alliance point system
so the concept is for this to count towards alliance win rather than members combined planet score?
|
|
|
23 Jul 2014, 19:28
|
#7
|
Error
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 359
|
Re: Alternative alliance point system
no doubt planet score will help. but the alliance need something more then this to win. imho
__________________
#braSilFTW
|
|
|
23 Jul 2014, 19:58
|
#8
|
Awesome
Join Date: May 2005
Location: The Hague
Posts: 291
|
Re: Alternative alliance point system
Planet score will still be important for planet and galaxy rankings. It is also still used in the average alliance score which influences the amount of points you gain. Hitting alliances with a lower average score will be allot less beneficial for the alliance rankings, so hitting alliances with a high average score is important if you plan on winning.
Most important about this system is rewarding actual teamwork in both def and attack. Fleet activity always has been ignored which is actually kind of odd cause good dc'ing should be rewarded. I have played plenty of rounds as a defense planet for the alliance which hardly is rewarding when attackers don't crash.
Saying this system will only benefit the most active alliance is just wrong. If you join a semi active alliance who's playing casually you shouldn't expect to win the round that way. It is still very much possible to gang bang the most active alliance tho, but it has less impact because the amount or roids is less important than the morale and activity of the members.
__________________
Apprime PR - taking away ur problems since 2008
|
|
|
23 Jul 2014, 20:06
|
#9
|
Valle is my hero
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,581
|
Re: Alternative alliance point system
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cain
Planet score will still be important for planet and galaxy rankings. It is also still used in the average alliance score which influences the amount of points you gain. Hitting alliances with a lower average score will be allot less beneficial for the alliance rankings, so hitting alliances with a high average score is important if you plan on winning.
Most important about this system is rewarding actual teamwork in both def and attack. Fleet activity always has been ignored which is actually kind of odd cause good dc'ing should be rewarded. I have played plenty of rounds as a defense planet for the alliance which hardly is rewarding when attackers don't crash.
Saying this system will only benefit the most active alliance is just wrong. If you join a semi active alliance who's playing casually you shouldn't expect to win the round that way. It is still very much possible to gang bang the most active alliance tho, but it has less impact because the amount or roids is less important than the morale and activity of the members.
|
Maybe the win could be calculated with a combination of 3 areas??
Maybe Score/Value/Alliance Points - rank the alliances 1-10 on this and then award 10 point s to 1st - 8 to 2nd, 7 to 3rd etc.. with 9th and 10th getting 1 point each.
Alliance with most points wins - if there is a tie then open round for a 1 day shootout (30 min ticks) biggest score gain in 24 hrs wins (all other planets not in those tags are closed to make it a true 1 v 1)
|
|
|
23 Jul 2014, 21:15
|
#10
|
Seraphim
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 196
|
Re: Alternative alliance point system
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cain
Planet score will still be important for planet and galaxy rankings. It is also still used in the average alliance score which influences the amount of points you gain. Hitting alliances with a lower average score will be allot less beneficial for the alliance rankings, so hitting alliances with a high average score is important if you plan on winning.
|
Thing about this - if you benefit less from hitting "smaller" alliances and benefit more from hitting "bigger" alliances (besides less XP and cap which is already in place), all you'll do - unless a system is put in place to prevent it - is encourage everyone to gang on the 1 or 2 alliances who are on top same as now. After all, that's where the score/points are to be won. And if the #1 alliance is also the best in terms of activity and defence, your #4 or #5 alliance won't be able to hit them solo. So they will bring friends. And we're back to PA as we know it :P
This comes with the added problem that your #1 alliance can't hit back effectively (or for a lot less points anyway, as you yourself said) and due to how the point system will work with added focus perhaps on defending, they are likely to be in even less of a position to destroy an alliance, simply because they can only "spend" their fleets once and defending gives a lot of allypoints.
Say you can cover the incs of 2 alliances, the 3rd alliance *could* probably still polevault you like CT did in R57 simply because they can land and thus gain more points (assuming we give the main reward to the aggressor, because generally I think that's what people want? Personally I don't really mind good def :P) - and then nothing would really change.
Except perhaps there would be more war (good)/even more blocking (not so good).
But maybe we're going at this all wrong. If you look at sports, you have trophies for the best attacker, defender, etc. Why not divide the win into two parts: best military alliance (alliance points like Cain suggests), and Score - making it still viable to go for xp/political win. Why not reward both, instead of only one?
-Sera
PS: I'm not trying to shoot down your ideas Cain (not at all!), just trying to find potential problems so they might be addressed.
PS2: The biggest reason I like these ideas btw is that right now you win PA by avoiding incs. These ideas seem to be pushing alliances towards action more.
__________________
Seraphim
|
|
|
24 Jul 2014, 07:55
|
#11
|
a bucket
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Chatham, UK
Posts: 1,073
|
Re: Alternative alliance point system
First of all brilliant, thank you very much for doing this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cain
Rewarded points = base_points * ((target_alliance_counted_score / number of members) / ( your_alliance_counted_score / number of members ))
This calculation will only be used on point 2, 3, 4 and 7. The remaining ones always get rewarded by the maximum amount of points.
|
I would probably use this less. This is mostly because it encourages what we might think of as counter intuitive rankings where tiny alliances have a very high score as happens with the current alliance points. The alternative would be to add the alliance's value or combined score somewhere into the resulting formula; perhaps so that it makes up somewhere between a half and a third of the resulting score. Alliance value is therefore still important, just not as important as before.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cain
(1) Fleets launched
When launching a fleet the alliance gains 2 points for every tick the fleet is moving. This is the same for defending and attacking fleets. Defending fleets being launched ingal get rewarded 3 points every tick they are on the move. These ingal defence fleets still get rewarded even if the defended planet is not allied.
|
This looks to encourage pointless fleet movements; people clearly should have their fleets out in the afternoon even if there is no chance of them doing anything. It also discourages people from having idle fleets available to cover incs. For defence it makes sense that you should only get the points for as long as the fleet you are defending against is there as with defence xp. Perhaps for attack you could get 50% at launch and 50% on landing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cain
(2) Landing an attack / defence
If an alliance lands an attack on another alliance, they get 30 points.
If several alliance members land in the same tick on the same planet, they still only get 30 points.
If an attacker lands an attack, all defenders present that are a member of the defending planet's alliance or any of its allies get 30 points. Again, this is only counted once per defending alliance.
|
You mean each alliance gets 30 or the 30 is shared between all defenders as with current def xp?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cain
(3) Getting an attacker to recall
If an attacker recalls, any alliances defending against that attack fleet that are allied with the target planet's alliance get 10 points. This means the target planet's alliance and any alliances allied to it. This is counted once per defending alliance. Covering large teamups could be very beneficial this way.
(6) Asteroid(s) saved
When the attacking alliance is landing an attack, the defending alliance gains 1 point for each roid capped less than the maxcap which would have been possible.
|
These two don't go very well together. The defending alliance is much better off trying to get the attacker to land with half cap than it is to get them to recall. This is all the more the case with more points given for killing enemy value. With this system you now WANT attacks to land even at the expense of some of your own value. In a one on one fight killing a bit more of your opponent's value than you loose makes sense but not always. Indeed saving roids encourages a mentality of 'we loose value on this defence but save some roids to get ally points'.
I would therefore be inclined to up the number of points for recalls relative to number of roids 'saved'. Or since saving roids is not a common occurrence without an accompanying crash (and you don't really want to be rewarding a def crash as you are here) you could just take it out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cain
Any further suggestions would be great.
|
Scans and successful cov ops should be included. It makes sense from the game's perspective to encourage diverse styles of play.
__________________
Proud to have been TGV!
aargh! died in Jenova! | idled in ROCK | disappointed in Audentes | been Roguish | p-p-previously a p-p-p3nguin
Ascendancy
Otterly an Otter.
|
|
|
24 Jul 2014, 10:50
|
#12
|
Awesome
Join Date: May 2005
Location: The Hague
Posts: 291
|
Re: Alternative alliance point system
- Added some changes where smaller alliances have a big advantage of gaining score on the bigger alliances by adding a cap.
- Score is now a part of gaining points to your alliance. Needless to say that huge crashes are not helpfull in any way (both in your ally losing points and the defending alliance who gains points)
I am unsure how covert ops should be rewarded. Obviously there is a difference between a 10 agent res hack and a 30 agent res hack.
Scanning should also be rewarded, only the successful scans ofc to reward scanners in a tag. Again open to suggestions
__________________
Apprime PR - taking away ur problems since 2008
|
|
|
24 Jul 2014, 19:23
|
#13
|
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 707
|
Re: Alternative alliance point system
maybe even add a "capture the flag" style in there also?
say an alliance is awarded a special roid to a random player for every 10 players that joins tag. There has to be a list on the universe display of all pecial roid holders and what alliance it represents, but not current holders alliance.
2 points every tick for holding own alliance roid, 1 point every tick for holding another alliance's roid that has less score than your own alliance.
3 points pr tick for holding another alliance's roid that has more score than your own alliance.
would something like this also make the battlefield more interesting?
|
|
|
26 Jul 2014, 14:26
|
#14
|
idle
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Germany
Posts: 968
|
Re: Alternative alliance point system
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cain
(2) Landing an attack / defenceIf an alliance lands an attack on another alliance, they get 30 points.
If several alliance members land in the same tick on the same planet, they still only get 30 points.
If an attacker lands an attack, all defenders present that are a member of the defending planet's alliance or any of its allies get 30 points. So each alliance who has a defender present when the attacker lands gains 30 points.
|
great stuff
especially the quoted part i think its badly needed for PA (along with stats that allow solo-landings for all races)
would love to see it implemented r58 allready, maybe not to determine the winner allready, but to have a first "test" of this
go appocomaster!!!! Please
__________________
m0rph3us formerly known as Bugz
"It´s not about how hard u hit, its about how hard u can get hit and still keep moving forward! How much u can take and still move forward!"
|
|
|
26 Jul 2014, 14:51
|
#15
|
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,038
|
Re: Alternative alliance point system
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheoDD
maybe even add a "capture the flag" style in there also?
say an alliance is awarded a special roid to a random player for every 10 players that joins tag. There has to be a list on the universe display of all pecial roid holders and what alliance it represents, but not current holders alliance.
2 points every tick for holding own alliance roid, 1 point every tick for holding another alliance's roid that has less score than your own alliance.
3 points pr tick for holding another alliance's roid that has more score than your own alliance.
would something like this also make the battlefield more interesting?
|
the thing i dont like about the capture the flag in PA is its totally random if you cap it or not, so a planet can get lolwaved and still keep the roid
__________________
Did some stuff, played here n there done just about all there is to do
|
|
|
3 Sep 2014, 13:02
|
#16
|
p1mp
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Bristol
Posts: 178
|
Re: Alternative alliance point system
This is a great idea
__________________
ReBorn-Fury- Wolfpack-1up- Newdawn-DLR- NFI-Apprime-
*CEO of the Forest fan club
|
|
|
3 Sep 2014, 17:18
|
#17
|
Propaganda Chief
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Under the Rainbow
Posts: 4,740
|
Re: Alternative alliance point system
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plaguuu
I think determing the winner by the sum of planets like it is now is a easy and good way to rank alliances. It also allows for alliances with worse skilled to compete for high ranks with good politics(teaming up). Keeping the game fluent and alive. Instead of one group of the best players winning over and over.
|
So the last 10 rounds, there has been 7 diffrent winners.
"Instead of one group of the best players winning over and over".
So does this mean we dont want the best group of each round to win?
We could just have a random lottery when we were to declare the winner instead
__________________
RainbowS
RB Ely MISTU Angel Fusi0n 1up ToF VisioN CT FAnG ROCK
|
|
|
3 Sep 2014, 17:28
|
#18
|
Blah Blah Blah
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 622
|
Re: Alternative alliance point system
Naps should give score too!
__________________
If you can't amaze people with your intelligence, confuse them with your bullshit.
BANANA ALLIANCE!!
|
|
|
|
All times are GMT +1. The time now is 14:48.
| |