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Unread 27 Nov 2007, 21:16   #1
Yahwe
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How very curious religious people are

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7115300.stm

Now I have read these three books. I was passed them for my opinion while I was at college by a rather delighted college chaplin (sweet chap knew i was no christian but knew also of my interest in religion).

I'm afraid that I rather agreed with his view. These books carry an inherent monotheistic and christian message.

We see a rather interesting marketting device in the death/deabilitation of 'god'. We then learn that in fact that figure was not god in any true sense of the term. Later we learn of the overwhelming singular power of (my memory fades but I think the image is) gold dust - or at least some omniscient loving all powerful extra-human entity.

I commented to him that I thought the books represented an attack upon various organised churches (i teasingly included his own). But good man that he was he said that he did not care.

The trilogy is, and i have no idea whether or not the author realises it (exeter college man i understand - dim lot), an utter defence of christian faith regardless of any criticism of christian worship.

My overwhelming memory is of telling him that I thought they were bloody good propaganda for his cause.

Has anyone else read them? I am assuming that the group criticising the author has not.
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Unread 27 Nov 2007, 21:20   #2
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Re: How very curious religious people are

As an off shoot point:

Christian journalist Peter Hitchens said ... "Don't forget, this is a writer who has previously gone on the record to say he is trying to undermine the basis of Christian belief."

This raises rather interesting questions about authorial intent and the level to which we are all effected by our upbringing
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Unread 27 Nov 2007, 22:42   #3
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Re: How very curious religious people are

I've read them and i thought they were pretty good, the end was sad though

I remember god (the authority, and his regent, metatron) being defeated at the end, although I certainly don't remember anything about "an omniscient loving all powerful human loving entity" though, just the dust, which never displayed any unifying consciousness or human loving or omniscience. It was more like the physical representation of people's souls or something.
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Unread 27 Nov 2007, 22:50   #4
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Re: How very curious religious people are

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deepflow
I've read them and i thought they were pretty good, the end was sad though

I remember god (the authority, and his regent, metatron) being defeated at the end, although I certainly don't remember anything about "an omniscient loving all powerful human loving entity" though, just the dust, which never displayed any unifying consciousness or human loving or omniscience. It was more like the physical representation of people's souls or something.
carry on.
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Unread 27 Nov 2007, 22:57   #5
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Re: How very curious religious people are

I haven't read them. When the film hits cinemas I suppose I'll read them.
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Unread 27 Nov 2007, 22:58   #6
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Re: How very curious religious people are

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
carry on.
Well assuming what i wrote above is true (i can't be certain, my memory, like yours, isn't perfect) then you are wrong about it being a defence of christian faith.

Also, even if you were right about the godlike human loving omniscient dust then that would be no defence of christianity, just of god.

Would you like me to continue?
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Unread 28 Nov 2007, 00:20   #7
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Re: How very curious religious people are

Its your typical idiotic reaction by Christian groups on anything they think might potentially be anti their faith. They never take the time to read the books, watch the movies ect ect that they are deeming 'evil' yet feel its their right to condemn it. They need to go read the bible a few more times and they might learn that judging things on hearsay isnt right.

And if they do take the time to take in the item in question that theres any different beliefs held by people and the rights that allow them to have pro Christian works done allows others to produce works that favour their beliefs and until theres undeniable proof that one set of beliefs alone are correct thats how it should be and they just have to grow up and live with it
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Unread 28 Nov 2007, 08:49   #8
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Re: How very curious religious people are

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deepflow
Well assuming what i wrote above is true (i can't be certain, my memory, like yours, isn't perfect) then you are wrong about it being a defence of christian faith.

Also, even if you were right about the godlike human loving omniscient dust then that would be no defence of christianity, just of god.

Would you like me to continue?
what is christianity?
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Unread 28 Nov 2007, 10:23   #9
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Re: How very curious religious people are

I don't think you are suggesting anything very interesting.

Organised religion and faith would be viewed as inseperable by your average christian wouldn't they?

If the views of your average christian are the same as those of an american fundamentalist lobby group of course.
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Unread 28 Nov 2007, 11:41   #10
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Re: How very curious religious people are

I just entered this thread thinking "yeah! religious people ARE curious!" and then I started reading spoilers about a movie/books I hadn't seen/read yet.
More on-topic, but yet not completely, the church has always annoyed me by sharing their opinions on cultural stuff like books and movies without anybody asking them. :/
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Unread 28 Nov 2007, 15:12   #11
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Re: How very curious religious people are

BBC copies and pastes fundamentalist press-release and author counter-press release non shocker!
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Unread 28 Nov 2007, 18:36   #12
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Re: How very curious religious people are

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cooling
I don't think you are suggesting anything very interesting.

Organised religion and faith would be viewed as inseperable by your average christian wouldn't they?

If the views of your average christian are the same as those of an american fundamentalist lobby group of course.
if you don't think the fact that a children's book carrying a christian message is being denounced by a particular group of christians interesting then maybe you'd be happier in sport threads.

I'll be sure to use [sport] tags to help you out.
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Unread 2 Dec 2007, 07:46   #13
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Re: How very curious religious people are

I am never sure whether I am an atheist or an agnostic. I have been vascillating for the last 47 years or so. I keep thinking I am an atheist but find most atheists to be such smug, pompous and self-congratulating assholes that I really don't want to be associated with their church. If you really think there isn't a god then who cares what the rest of the fools think?
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Unread 2 Dec 2007, 13:14   #14
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Re: How very curious religious people are

Because the same fools can create lobby groups and promote religious 'values' based on a fictional text written thousands of years ago?
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Unread 2 Dec 2007, 15:45   #15
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Re: How very curious religious people are

Peter Kay is history's greatest monster.
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Unread 2 Dec 2007, 15:48   #16
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Re: How very curious religious people are

Sorry, I meant 'mediocrity.'
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Unread 2 Dec 2007, 16:25   #17
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Re: How very curious religious people are

I thought it was rather obvious that I walkign about Peter Kay not being funny.
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Unread 2 Dec 2007, 16:50   #18
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Re: How very curious religious people are

for my first try whit that dictionary , we will put the point of view of hunter/evil/bloodthirsty/ground minded person .

only having saw preview , you can obviously see that this is the real life like many mythological story , having the bigger defending the smaller in exchange of event that will occupy part of theyr life .

Fact of adding a good is a excuse for havin to do twisted and wrong action .
not as Jesus say ( no bad thought )
Comparison whit the Insurrection ,(pope whit Islamic), the French revolution where men fought for the bread , not even the meat .
The 700 witch and science people , that been hunt and burned , rape , beaten and persecuted , for believing that mother earth had a point .
just showing the unity of a group whether good or bad , if in a good situation will be able to do what the which . Fact of a good only say the way is traced and by controlling you will over come the logic .

Still we are here , so theyr (ain't:the yr ) had to be some power , i guess that why these movie are to be made whit respect and grand acting .

so to complete shouldn't have other than us that what these 3 book should mean rest is to have fiery whit out killing ppl or getting wack .( little like shooter game does , so we all live the love , the passion .

while watching the add on tv . Even if most world isn't a wise person , mainly looking for food and to mate , or piss me off .

i guess somewhere the GOOD WAY has done is way , so we live the lie a little


added tv , ppl , but is wack a real wanna be word

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Unread 2 Dec 2007, 16:53   #19
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Re: How very curious religious people are

What's that got to do with Peter Kay?
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Unread 2 Dec 2007, 17:09   #20
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Re: How very curious religious people are

didn't get what you were saying , dont really know any peter key greatest history monster , my point was that monster , fiery story create by themself ,
would become a sub secant thing of god (being everything )

that no one really create the story , the adapt it to theyr way of life

was more a point i was making ain't much ppl that argue whit me anymore
ain't even got the biggest account to delete :P


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music being sound , got to be suitable for the moment your in , in the case where your numb evrything that move at a 2:1 speed that you use to be is a good nice music .
50 years later having made all melody and most instrumental music we could .
i can tell you that you just were being and had live whit ppl and like many other child of your age learned from each other to get to perfection.

thanks god you got shoot you maybe never had the time , whit the life ou had , to realize that .

music is you m your life but mainly your dream , your desire .
like cat flow trew you
like a women captivate part of your brain
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Unread 2 Dec 2007, 17:10   #21
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Re: How very curious religious people are

Use something else to translate into English.
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Unread 2 Dec 2007, 17:15   #22
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Re: How very curious religious people are

nah i watch tv in English for nearly 10 years now , watch south park , Simpson , get bak whit younger person .
having grammar correct isn't to good for my reputation .
good for the typing indeed


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Unread 2 Dec 2007, 18:01   #23
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Angry Re: How very curious religious people are

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Unread 2 Dec 2007, 18:59   #24
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Re: How very curious religious people are

This got to be a gimmick acount.
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Unread 2 Dec 2007, 20:07   #25
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Re: How very curious religious people are

Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverSmoke
This got to be a gimmick acount.
Most disturbingly it is probably horn's
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Unread 2 Dec 2007, 20:38   #26
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Re: How very curious religious people are

Quote:
Originally Posted by horn
oh my that certainly would be disturbing. maybe a sign of mental illness?
I'm quite confident that you've already been professionally diagnosed
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Unread 2 Dec 2007, 22:39   #27
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Re: How very curious religious people are

bbud2 is awesome. i demand he continues. i'd like it if he's speaks about the beginning of the universe and unrequited love in the style of drunken antediluvian. you can make up your own meaning for antediluvian as I've merely chosen the word because I've never had the opportunity to use it before now.
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Unread 3 Dec 2007, 14:49   #28
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Re: How very curious religious people are

I think bbud2 writes those extra sentences in the spam mails we all get. Just several words thrown in one sentence. Another reason why I think bbud2 should keep posting is so my posts don't look as bad as they did before he showed up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dda
I keep thinking I am an atheist but find most atheists to be such smug, pompous and self-congratulating assholes that I really don't want to be associated with their church.
The kind that use words like vascillating?
Actually there's a pretty big difference between atheïsts and agnosts, although I doubt I need to tell you or anybody on this forum this. Lately I've noticed more and more people start calling themselves agnosts when they used to call themselves atheïsts. Their reason is probably pretty smug aswell tho. "Hey look at me, I'm open-minded! Atheïsts are closed-minded just like religious people! My farts smell great!"
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Unread 3 Dec 2007, 16:27   #29
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Re: How very curious religious people are

For people who aren't english of tongue like me it comes over as a difficult word.
Not like I meant it anyway, I wouldn't do that to dda, I don't insult old people!
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Unread 4 Dec 2007, 00:32   #30
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Re: How very curious religious people are

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharur
Actually there's a pretty big difference between atheïsts and agnosts, although I doubt I need to tell you or anybody on this forum this. Lately I've noticed more and more people start calling themselves agnosts when they used to call themselves atheïsts. Their reason is probably pretty smug aswell tho. "Hey look at me, I'm open-minded! Atheïsts are closed-minded just like religious people! My farts smell great!"
the rise of agnosticism is a response to the fall of monotheism. any rational person chooses atheisism over a monotheist belief system, simply to register protest.

as monotheism decays in influence more admit they are merely agnostic.

allow me to demonstrate - A: "There is only one god" B: "If there is only one god then he sucks ass so I tell you there is no god!!" becomes A: "There is only one god" (but A is now accepted as a nutter) B: "Well you're a nutter so **** you. I now don't know anything about gods"
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Unread 4 Dec 2007, 03:18   #31
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Re: How very curious religious people are

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
the rise of agnosticism is a response to the fall of monotheism. any rational person chooses atheisism over a monotheist belief system, simply to register protest.

as monotheism decays in influence more admit they are merely agnostic.

allow me to demonstrate - A: "There is only one god" B: "If there is only one god then he sucks ass so I tell you there is no god!!" becomes A: "There is only one god" (but A is now accepted as a nutter) B: "Well you're a nutter so **** you. I now don't know anything about gods"

seen how stupid people are?
B but theyr only one doubt he would trust other .

can a program be call a being?
is god as they call im the ultimate being ..........
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Unread 4 Dec 2007, 10:03   #32
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Re: How very curious religious people are

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bbud2
seen how stupid people are?
Irony.
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Unread 6 Dec 2007, 04:36   #33
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Re: How very curious religious people are

I think it's great there are still enough self righteous "Moral Christians" out there to tell everyone else what to think. I mean what would we do without them? Think for ourselves? Take a story as just being a story?

No that would be terrible. We have to find the hidden agenda in everything from Teletubbies to "The Golden Compass." Life is so much easier with someone else doing the thinking. Where do I send my check?
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Who the hell gave you posrep you christian fundamentalist?
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You're not the voice of Christianity di**head.

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Unread 6 Dec 2007, 20:18   #34
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Re: How very curious religious people are

I've just finished the first book and while I can see how some (simple) people might think it's there to glorify atheism, I think they're reading a little bit too much into it. The plot might delve more into it in the 2nd and 3rd though, as it was only towards the end that they referred to the Bible and Adam & Eve.

By the way, if Yahwe had a daemon it'd pretty much definitely be a pompous ass
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Unread 6 Dec 2007, 21:34   #35
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Thumbs down Re: How very curious religious people are

Quote:
Originally Posted by Travler
I think it's great there are still enough self righteous "Moral Christians" out there to tell everyone else what to think. I mean what would we do without them? Think for ourselves? Take a story as just being a story?

No that would be terrible. We have to find the hidden agenda in everything from Teletubbies to "The Golden Compass." Life is so much easier with someone else doing the thinking. Where do I send my check?

goth use to say heaven was a place where you had nice food and toy to have pleasure .

and remember why bible ( history ) is for : make children (fun ) ,train (nice) , fight unbeleiver ( yummy ) punish cheating women .....

finaly , according to bible (most of them) it is a sin to have anything near a computer in our home .

but i think you mean ; stick to the world wide story be a ...............
am not really down whit that even if that the way it look to be .



you mean a tree is not a tree? i guess that explain where gay come from :P

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Unread 6 Dec 2007, 21:36   #36
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Re: How very curious religious people are

don get me started on adam and eve .

bunch of story

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Unread 6 Dec 2007, 22:23   #37
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Re: How very curious religious people are

please tell
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Unread 6 Dec 2007, 23:22   #38
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Re: How very curious religious people are

And could I get a translation please?
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Who the hell gave you posrep you christian fundamentalist?
god is bollox, mkay and you are not discussing it
You're not the voice of Christianity di**head.

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Unread 7 Dec 2007, 00:14   #39
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Re: How very curious religious people are

There is no translation, only The Feeling.

Although there has been a noticable drop in the quality of the posts. Please pick it up, Bbud2.
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Unread 7 Dec 2007, 00:36   #40
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Re: How very curious religious people are

will do so .
even if most of time , my guess would be that is the way i turn sentence around . which theyr is not to much i can do about that .

As a being (i guess) i cannot see me , making 2 peep and just being a dick whit them . So that would kill he idear o the Father and put the ......... instead .

to conclude , if as a being , had the choice to be , for sure i would listen to the advice . (which actualy just mean , take the time to understand why something some thing can be wrong or right (apple ....

but than again come Cain , which is more accurate , who of boredoom , started test on other what he couldn t do to is self ( ended up in torture )


So these story , are simply like the golden compast and should not be seen has otherwise .( my point ) but still like santa claus bible is a hope , or a guide line for children , maybe should not be mixe togheter .
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Unread 7 Dec 2007, 08:05   #41
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Re: How very curious religious people are

that's deep man, truely a masterpiece, I specifically liked the apple part and how you really bring out the pain somebody can feel in boredom.
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Unread 7 Dec 2007, 15:06   #42
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Re: How very curious religious people are

I'm still trying to comprehend "making 2 peep and just being a dick whit them." i'm all for sexual experimentation but i'm unsure how it relates to o' the Father.
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Unread 7 Dec 2007, 15:17   #43
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Re: How very curious religious people are

Yeah, he also talks about doing things to other people you can't do to yourself out of boredom, I'm guessing Bbud2 read the pornographical version of the bible.
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Unread 7 Dec 2007, 20:11   #44
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Re: How very curious religious people are

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hebdomad
I'm still trying to comprehend "making 2 peep and just being a dick whit them." i'm all for sexual experimentation but i'm unsure how it relates to o' the Father.
if you indulge horn then you aren't really helping him
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Unread 8 Dec 2007, 01:41   #45
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Talking Re: How very curious religious people are

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharur
Yeah, he also talks about doing things to other people you can't do to yourself out of boredom, I'm guessing Bbud2 read the pornographical version of the bible.



read the bible being younger and then for some reason . slept whit my parent until i was second gade of high school

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Unread 8 Dec 2007, 02:17   #46
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Re: How very curious religious people are

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bbud2


read the bible being younger and then for some reason . slept whit my parent until i was second gade of high school

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Hi Yahwe.
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Unread 8 Dec 2007, 02:19   #47
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Re: How very curious religious people are

what the point you making here , am surprisd that you dont complain about my english
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Unread 8 Dec 2007, 02:23   #48
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Re: How very curious religious people are

Get a life Yahwe.
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Unread 8 Dec 2007, 02:23   #49
Yahwe
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Re: How very curious religious people are

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bbud2
what the point you making here , am surprisd that you dont complain about my english
your english has never been good.

but at least with your latest gimmick you don't pretend to understand long words.
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Unread 8 Dec 2007, 02:25   #50
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Re: How very curious religious people are

This won't cover things up fatty.
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