lost of quality ?

[-=*PlaYetZ*=-]

i have been looking for some days now at the forums and on IRC , and i hear lots of people complaining about the current ****ty quality of alliances ....

Did people lost their touch of organisation after the leaving of the "bigger" alliances , or is this game just becoming more and more ...... ( fill in yourself ) , im just curious about player's arguments about the current situation related to alliances reputations , organisations and quality

regards



( guess i posted this thread at the wrong section )

[Leshy]

Originally posted by -=*PlaYetZ*=-
( guess i posted this thread at the wrong section )

I can fix this for you. For the right price

[Knight Theamion]

Eclipse organization seems to be okay-ish, RaH is still growing and smoothening, Virus seem to have been weakened indeed, no comment on madcows, heh.

Olympians doesn't have the core yet to be experienced enough, altho they are almost Titans v2.0.

Ely and Wolfpack havent 'grown' in 4 rounds.

I am impressed by NoS.

[Morden]

when the larger alliances left who had previously dominated the top spots, they left a large void that was hard to fill, so far no one has been able to fill them adequately enough to resume the work of dominating the universe.

eventually there will be alliances which succede in creating another dominant alliance, but i beleive it will be a long time before any singular alliance holds the top spot with any degree of security of there position.

that is a large reason for the size of the blocks this round, security as there are some new alliances who are untested in combat as a unified force.

[niwaie]

Originally posted by -=*PlaYetZ*=-
-snip-

hi playetz! what about eldar? didnt hear about it for quite a while now...

[Not_RIT]

There hasnt been PA for nearly 6 months , a lot of people now lack the dedication they had previously.

[aza1]

Originally posted by Knight Theamion
Eclipse organization seems to be okay-ish, RaH is still growing and smoothening, Virus seem to have been weakened indeed, no comment on madcows, heh.

Olympians doesn't have the core yet to be experienced enough, altho they are almost Titans v2.0.

Ely and Wolfpack havent 'grown' in 4 rounds.

I am impressed by NoS.

---------------------------------

a very subjective viewpoint imho.

Being wp i would say they have grown, but it would be great to get some objective evidence to back it up.

Maybe this round, we will get that chance.

[Maddix]

Originally posted by -=*PlaYetZ*=-
i have been looking for some days now at the forums and on IRC , and i hear lots of people complaining about the current ****ty quality of alliances ....

Did people lost their touch of organisation after the leaving of the "bigger" alliances , or is this game just becoming more and more ...... ( fill in yourself ) , im just curious about player's arguments about the current situation related to alliances reputations , organisations and quality

One of the main problems I am sure is that people have got "out of the habit" of PA and ofc with so many new alliances and old ones disbanding nearly all alliances have a large proportion of new members that are still learning how the alliance works.

Another factor is probably "reputation". Some alliances have a reputation for being very average so people automatically dismiss them without knowing much, NoS is a perfect example of this and from what I've seen they are of a higher quality now than most would believe.

Eclipse seem fairly well organised considering they are a new alliance (regardless of people saying 'old Fury') and the same with Olympians. Wolfpack seem to pack a bit more of a punch than pasts round altho possibly from an increase in their membership base rather than any better organisation. Virus and Elysium same old it seems to me. In my opinion RaH is also far improved organisationally from last round too.

[thomas4]

Originally posted by Not_RIT
There hasnt been PA for nearly 6 months , a lot of people now lack the dedication they had previously.

PLZ speak for yourself, ta.

[hAl]

There seems to be a lack of quality as the game totally revolves around quantity at the moment. Since there is so much amphasis on massive attacks why would you see a lot of skilled play. There is noone you need to outsmart.

hAl

[Jackal2112]

It is odd I joined a random galaxy this round, who was t100 for quite a while in the first week, until we got a lot of WeeT incomings. At this moment my galaxy is still t200, whereas the t200 is dominated by strong weet and nar gals, and some of the stronger oly gals.

Either my random gal is totally l33t, or quality in PA has dropped miles from let's say R6. (I 'assume' those ****e gals above t250 are farms, randoms, and wp gals, but please prove me wrong).

[Knight Theamion]

The current WolfPack will never ever match the image, skill, ego, size and influence that the WolfPack of round3 had. It is impossible

[BOB_LOST]

Originally posted by Knight Theamion
The current WolfPack will never ever match the image, skill, ego, size and influence that the WolfPack of round3 had. It is impossible

finally other ppl see that as well rnd 3/4 wp > thos WP we have now

[KeyStroke]

Originally posted by hAl
There seems to be a lack of quality as the game totally revolves around quantity at the moment. Since there is so much amphasis on massive attacks why would you see a lot of skilled play. There is noone you need to outsmart.

hAl

Amen, doesnt mean **** how skilled people you got, how much time and effort they put in when you are overrun by sheer numbers. What is left then is to try deal blows where you are able to, but in the end you run out of resources to do so.

Anyhow, I guess some take pride in advanced farming (total stampede bashing) too

[dabult]

Originally posted by thomas4
PLZ speak for yourself, ta.

He said "a lot of people", didnt he?

That is a big part of it imo.

[The_Fish]

Originally posted by Knight Theamion
The current WolfPack will never ever match the image, skill, ego, size and influence that the WolfPack of round3 had. It is impossible

fk off.

[KeyStroke]

Originally posted by The_Fish
fk off.

Yet another mature reply on AD

[GA-Thrawn]

Originally posted by The_Fish
fk off.

I fully agree with Theamion here. Wolfpack r3 and Wolfpack now are two completely different alliances. The way Wolfpack played in r3 (small group, great skills) is the main reason for Wolfpack having their reputation. Current Pack members should be more proud of 'their' alliance's early history, it's one of the (or the) best.

[hAl]

Wolfpack r3 was a bit twattish. Everybody can do well is you start like that. It is not like they started a round as an alliance spread around in the universe. If you pick a group of people in a leading alliance in a round you will look l33t no matter what. Off course they were on average good player but if they would have held out on the top for a few rounds that would have been a sign of greatness but fact is a lot of those players went back and they did not manage to dominate a round since then.

hAl

[hAl]

Originally posted by Jackal2112
It is odd I joined a random galaxy this round, who was t100 for quite a while in the first week, until we got a lot of WeeT incomings. At this moment my galaxy is still t200, whereas the t200 is dominated by strong weet and nar gals, and some of the stronger oly gals.

Either my random gal is totally l33t, or quality in PA has dropped miles from let's say R6. (I 'assume' those ****e gals above t250 are farms, randoms, and wp gals, but please prove me wrong).

I finished r7 with a random gal just outside top 100. As a random gal you are seldomly targetted by alliance raids which is a definit advantage. So if you get little incomngs savor that feeling for now but know that it could change easily at some time.

hAl

oh and yes, we have gals above t250. Some already having eight or nine days of incomings. So that rank is hardly a surprise.

[laputa]

As I was already arguing in this thread I do think that the quality of the alliances has gone down.
As mentioned by Morden the void created by the absence of Fury/Legion/Xanadu has yet to be filled.
However, I highly doubt that the alliances now can reach the level of quality displayed by those 3 alliances.

Why? I think that through round one and two the people able and willing to lead a successful alliance crystallized slowly. There was a reason why those ppl were HCs and there was a reason why their alliance were successful. Dedication, innovation and organizational skills made their alliances win the rounds to come. By now every major alliance won a round (even NoS ) and most of the leaders stepped down by taking their respective alliance out of PA - they achieved what they wanted and some were simply burnt out.
With de creme de la creme gone alliances today are either lead by 2nd class HCs, ppl that still enjoy the game (eg Dingo) or newcomers to command positions; the latter group being rather rare since there were basically no new players since rd 5 and most of the people capable of leading an alliance already did so, still doing it respectively.

Of course with every rule there is an exception; I am not saying that all HCs are second class nowadays but some are. More than prior to round 8.
It is a similar story for the players: High quality players left the scene en masse leaving the top spot to the 2nd league or to dedicated newcomers - and again: there are not many newcomers.

Flame away

Laputa

[Provider]

It is weird that you're so called 2nd class HC's like dingo did won a round with your "1337" 1st class HC's still around.. He beated your fury/legion/xanadu.. Nothing 2nd class there imo

[Teh_Necro]

i've been around alliances, for a good while and i'd have to say my current one (in my opinion) is quite qualified and extremley well orginised, so such a statement can only be based on assumption. So be careful when stating assumptions in future, u may make a lot of people un happy :/

-Necro

[K03N]

Originally posted by The_Fish
fk off.

If you cannot stand it that you are just a ghost of the real wolfpack then you admit that you lack their skill and quality.

It is good to know that WP knows this themselves, a rename is actually justified, with every round you are continueing you are disgracing that name.

[K03N]

Originally posted by hAl
Wolfpack r3 was a bit twattish. Everybody can do well is you start like that. It is not like they started a round as an alliance spread around in the universe. If you pick a group of people in a leading alliance in a round you will look l33t no matter what. Off course they were on average good player but if they would have held out on the top for a few rounds that would have been a sign of greatness but fact is a lot of those players went back and they did not manage to dominate a round since then.

hAl

Round 3 WolfPack was a splitoff, however if they had played r3 from the start with RB and Fury they would've won too.

[laputa]

Originally posted by Provider
It is weird that you're so called 2nd class HC's like dingo did won a round with your "1337" 1st class HC's still around.. He beated your fury/legion/xanadu.. Nothing 2nd class there imo

You got me wrong there - maybe my post was kind of misleading. Dingo was not meant as an example for a second rate HC; I took him as an example for a long term alliance leader who is still in the loop. By no way did I intend to put him in the 2nd class.

Sorry, if I wasn't clear enough on that point.

[laputa]

Originally posted by Teh_Necro
u may make a lot of people un happy :/

-Necro

I know. The truth hurts

As I said there are always exceptions, a lot of exceptions actually, but I still think that my post described a general tendency.
Of course it is based on some assumptions - every theory is - but I find them realistic enough to dare p|ssing some people off by stating that there are more 2nd rate HCs now than there were in the past.

Playetz got the idea of a decrease in quality by reading the board. And I totally agree there. FAnG, MDK and ToT HCs (again some, not all) last round displayed perfectly their immaturity and lack of leadership skills.

[Provider]

Originally posted by laputa
I know. The truth hurts

As I said there are always exceptions, a lot of exceptions actually, but I still think that my post described a general tendency.
Of course it is based on some assumptions - every theory is - but I find them realistic enough to dare p|ssing some people off by stating that there are more 2nd rate HCs now than there were in the past.

Playetz got the idea of a decrease in quality by reading the board. And I totally agree there. FAnG, MDK and ToT HCs (again some, not all) last round displayed perfectly their immaturity and lack of leadership skills.

It is true that some HC's who have been around in their alliance a long time (sid, biggdogg, etc) left as HC now. Their nr two, three, etc during the previous rounds are now leading an alliance (with other names but still). This doesn't mean a second that they are 2nd rated. PA from now isn't the PA from rnd 3, 4. Think that you can't compare HC's from now with those from the "old days".

[offtopic]
oh and ko3n, the wp from rnd 3,4, 5 aint the wp as it is now. The setup is totally different. It is however the same alliance from which the hc's switched/left. Which is better. Nobody will ever know. However it is a fact that one of the two won a round. And "if" history is fun but not the truth.
[/offtopic]

[The_Fish]

What cali said. plus I'm getting sick of hearing it.

[Scouse]

Originally posted by laputa
As mentioned by Morden the void created by the absence of Fury/Legion/Xanadu has yet to be filled.
However, I highly doubt that the alliances now can reach the level of quality displayed by those 3 alliances.

Did you miss last round?

[Knight Theamion]

Originally posted by Provider
It is true that some HC's who have been around in their alliance a long time (sid, biggdogg, etc) left as HC now. Their nr two, three, etc during the previous rounds are now leading an alliance (with other names but still). This doesn't mean a second that they are 2nd rated. PA from now isn't the PA from rnd 3, 4. Think that you can't compare HC's from now with those from the "old days".

[offtopic]
oh and ko3n, the wp from rnd 3,4, 5 aint the wp as it is now. The setup is totally different. It is however the same alliance from which the hc's switched/left. Which is better. Nobody will ever know. However it is a fact that one of the two won a round. And "if" history is fun but not the truth.
[/offtopic]

Current wolfpack sucks compared to what it was, you cannot change, deny or dispute that fact otherwise you are just blinded by your own ego.

[Teh_Necro]

KO3N/Theamion, u both have a lot too say.

Its a shame u have nothing too show :/

I found the wp of r3, retard morons, who are full of themselves just b/c they owned a game a few rounds ago.

If these guys came back, i think theres abilities would not be "all that". Fact is they were the players who had played a few rounds b4 the bulk of the pa universe at the time. Now majority of players are on the same playing level, thus i find alliances who perform better now, far superior to those in the past.

/me awaits the first ex-r3 wp who's gonna try repair their ego.

-Necro

[kyrealean]

Originally posted by Scouse
Did you miss last round?

Battlegroups owned alliances in rd 8 tbh, random gals virtually dictate that u have several different alliances attacking together to cover gals.

what was funny was watching people defend against their own alliance to keep their battlegroup mates safe from harm before newscans came out.

[Knight Theamion]

Originally posted by Teh_Necro
KO3N/Theamion, u both have a lot too say.

Its a shame u have nothing too show :/

I found the wp of r3, retard morons, who are full of themselves just b/c they owned a game a few rounds ago.

If these guys came back, i think theres abilities would not be "all that". Fact is they were the players who had played a few rounds b4 the bulk of the pa universe at the time. Now majority of players are on the same playing level, thus i find alliances who perform better now, far superior to those in the past.

/me awaits the first ex-r3 wp who's gonna try repair their ego.

-Necro

Err Biggdogg kinda did well in Legion in r6/7 again didn't he ?
TiG won the speedgame, last official one, Carpeia was lastround pretty highranked. Game always plays good. I am sorry but the skill and dedication of that playerbase has been unmatched, especially by the current WolfPack.

[Torz]

Originally posted by Teh_Necro
KO3N/Theamion, u both have a lot too say.

Its a shame u have nothing too show :/

I found the wp of r3, retard morons, who are full of themselves just b/c they owned a game a few rounds ago.

If these guys came back, i think theres abilities would not be "all that". Fact is they were the players who had played a few rounds b4 the bulk of the pa universe at the time. Now majority of players are on the same playing level, thus i find alliances who perform better now, far superior to those in the past.

/me awaits the first ex-r3 wp who's gonna try repair their ego.

-Necro

You really think we care?


[edit] Just to please my own ego, PA would have been a lot more of a dull enviroment without WP etc [/edit]

[Morden]

Originally posted by Teh_Necro

If these guys came back, i think theres abilities would not be "all that". Fact is they were the players who had played a few rounds b4 the bulk of the pa universe at the time. Now majority of players are on the same playing level, thus i find alliances who perform better now, far superior to those in the past.

/me awaits the first ex-r3 wp who's gonna try repair their ego.

-Necro

To be honest im not sure how you can say that, those guys as you put it basically wrote the book on how to do well, the ones that followed merely did what they did with very little inovation and perhaps with more of those old players playing they might be able to come up with some new way to win without huge blocks that seem to occur now, although i doubt it but you never know, there isnt enough of them playing to make the impact needed to judge.

[Scouse]

Originally posted by Knight Theamion
Err Biggdogg kinda did well in Legion in r6/7 again didn't he ?

No.

As for Tig winning the speed round, how can you seriously relate someone's PA skills at a speed round to a real round? They are completely different and require different things.

WP rd 3 had good players. Noone can really deny that. But were they any better than a lot of current players? Nope. Not in my opinion.

They were part of the group who first really got to grips with the game, that doesn't mean they're any better sklill wise than current players.

As for current WP, they won't ever beat the old WP as they are entirely a different type of alliance. And they won't ever get away from the old WP unless they change their name. Maybe then they could be recognised for what they are and not what old WP were.

[Hicks]

The players in Wolfpack and the other elite alliance of yesteryear were infinitely better than the elite of today, I dispute the fact that today's best players of today are in the same league as the best players of R2 to R4.

Player today even those in the elite alliances are just planet managers who can't to without BCs almost playing their accounts for them, in previous rounds the best players were almost BCs in their own right and were capable of operating independently.

People harp on about how much later launch times are today but they fail to realise the best have always launched at that time, people harp on about much less active you needed to be in earlier rounds but they fail to realise the best were always that active. People harp on about how much more professional the game is now and how the best players but people fail to realise how the best players are able to adapt.

To relate the argument to football it's like saying players like Booby Moore, Pushkas, Eusebio and Pele would have been rubbish if they played today because the game is more professional, the game is more physical, the game is faster and harder. What they fail to realise is players of their quality will always be at the top the same can be said of the likes of Syn Sid, Grendal, Frag, Biggdogg and Fred.

Round 1-4 required a different kind of player, a player who could excel in their own right, today all that's required is a player who can follow orders.

[kyrealean]

Originally posted by Hicks
The players in Wolfpack and the other elite alliance of yesteryear were infinitely better than the elite of today, I dispute the fact that today's best players of today are in the same league as the best players of R2 to R4.

Player today even those in the elite alliances are just planet managers who can't to without BCs almost playing their accounts for them, in previous rounds the best players were almost BCs in their own right and were capable of operating independently.

People harp on about how much later launch times are today but they fail to realise the best have always launched at that time, people harp on about much less active you needed to be in earlier rounds but they fail to realise the best were always that active. People harp on about how much more professional the game is now and how the best players but people fail to realise how the best players are able to adapt.

To relate the argument to football it's like saying players like Booby Moore, Pushkas, Eusebio and Pele would have been rubbish if they played today because the game is more professional, the game is more physical, the game is faster and harder. What they fail to realise is players of their quality will always be at the top the same can be said of the likes of Syn Sid, Grendal, Frag, Biggdogg and Fred.

Round 1-4 required a different kind of player, a player who could excel in their own right, today all that's required is a player who can follow orders.

wow, great post

I must agree with this assessment, back in the days of Rd1 thru 3, u could survive as a solo player provided u had the time and energy to make friends and sort your own raids.

Unfortunately now, solo raids are a thing of the past due to very high activity levels of the average PA player. So instead of the great players hitting 2 or 3 targets on their own, they are literally forced to attack as a group. Unfortunate but true.

There are still some great players playing PA, but alot of the strategy and tactics have been removed with rules changes since the beginning. Its mostly bout numbers now...... a pity indeed.

[Sergio]

I tend to disagree with Hicks. Back in the early rounds the universe was huge, full of easy targets for any player with enough dedication to be successful.
On the other side, there were only very few alliances with large amount of members. Large alliances were the ones that had those great players you are talking about. A large alliance in a universe with little serious opposition and coordination is in the best position to create a great player.

Now, the universe is way smaller, and the players that stayed are almost all in at least half-decent alliances, able to defend against one single attacker, no matter the size of him. But that is not the only thing that has changed. Todays alliances know that the most dangerous people are the people at the top spots, if they are not their own players. Many alliances today have the organization and players to launch a 3 wave attack on a single gal containing only 1 big planet, covering all planets in the gal, but targetting the biggest planet mainly.

I think many of todays players could have been those great players of yesterday. I haven't seen any skill they don't possess, that old players possessed.

And all that is assuming that those great players never farmed or multi'ed, which according to the long tradition of closed planets in planetarion, is really doubtful

[Ditcher]

I'd place the peak of quality at rounds5/6. Not alone for the fact that best/dedicated players have always gathered in alliances that imho reached their peak back then. But also because these alliances that time were driven by people that some could speak of as pa-legends. They were respected, well known for their gaming abilities and therefore everyone followed their examples and guidelines. Also the "Sorry I dont have ships home" syndrome wasn't that bad back then that it is now when the BC/HC who asks for it is some noname bloke that in many cases is "worse" player than the bulk member. Also for very many great players these rounds were the last nails in the coffin.

My opinion. Biassed of course.

[aza1]

Originally posted by K03N
If you cannot stand it that you are just a ghost of the real wolfpack then you admit that you lack their skill and quality.

It is good to know that WP knows this themselves, a rename is actually justified, with every round you are continueing you are disgracing that name.

--------------------------------
99% of current wp are not trying to compare themselves to rd3 wp.

I do not understand the mentality of many AD posters who continually put down the current wp and demand name changes etc.

Its only a alliance ffs, its a only a game ffs. But some obsessive nerds for lack of a better name seem to get quite fanatical about a issue that simply doesn't justify it.

Maybe the real issue is certain peoples need to put others down to make themselves feel good/important. Fair enough criticise alliances/people where it is due. But the unprovoked slander and in most cases absolute bull sh*t that dribbles from some peoples mouths in here is amazing.

These pointless attacks by some people are case book examples of a low self-esteem and this is very well documented if you knockers would like to read more about it.

[MadeMan]

hmm yes the skill level has dropped.

[Meth]

In terms of all round alliance quality, not individually, but across the game as a whole, round six was the peak in my opinion. There were several top notch alliances at the time, and alot of very, very good ones flying around.

[Seth Mace]

Great Players?

PA isnt exactly a hard game to play, if you can set your alarm clock and manage a certain level of hours online each day, your half way there!

It is really impossible for any1 to comment on the level of quality in PA now compared to previous rounds. However, as has been pointed out a few times, the number of players this round is dramatically smaller then in others; so you would assume there are less great players there.

If your trying to argue the percent of great players has decreased, i really would argue against that. If your lookin at the angle in regards to player image and reputation. Well there are still "names" left in PA but just not many as other rounds and this again comes hand in hand with a smaller playerbase.

The skill level has NOT dropped, only the player base but I would suggest there are less noobies in this round then any before; so surely this can be used in an arguement for something too?

PA has become more of a team game for me(then it used to be), in that you need to work well with your alliance ect.. to succeed.

[Ice]

Originally posted by Hicks
The players in Wolfpack and the other elite alliance of yesteryear were infinitely better than the elite of today, I dispute the fact that today's best players of today are in the same league as the best players of R2 to R4.

Player today even those in the elite alliances are just planet managers who can't to without BCs almost playing their accounts for them, in previous rounds the best players were almost BCs in their own right and were capable of operating independently.

People harp on about how much later launch times are today but they fail to realise the best have always launched at that time, people harp on about much less active you needed to be in earlier rounds but they fail to realise the best were always that active. People harp on about how much more professional the game is now and how the best players but people fail to realise how the best players are able to adapt.

To relate the argument to football it's like saying players like Booby Moore, Pushkas, Eusebio and Pele would have been rubbish if they played today because the game is more professional, the game is more physical, the game is faster and harder. What they fail to realise is players of their quality will always be at the top the same can be said of the likes of Syn Sid, Grendal, Frag, Biggdogg and Fred.

Round 1-4 required a different kind of player, a player who could excel in their own right, today all that's required is a player who can follow orders.

Good post, except the following order's rubbish

there are players without alliance's, following no orders and attakcing with BG's etc...

[Knight Theamion]

What Hicks said.

Current topplayers are more political players.

[MAdnRisKy]

Perhaps it's the other way around?

the universe is much smaller than they days you're harping back to. It's possible that this new smaller sample isn't as representative of the old universe in that general playing standard has gone up not down. As a consiquence player skill is not the deciding factor any more, rather sheer weight of numbers.

there has been a shift of focus from single players right back in the very old days, to galaxies, to alliances (and alliance controlled galaxies) to blocks of alliances. I'm not saying all these elements didn't exsit as far back as round 1, only that the weight of importance has shifted up the scale of size in concordance with the amount of players required to maintain suficient score needed to achieve dominance.

In round 2 due to the massively differing skill levels you needed about 2-4% of the player based to control about up to 40-50% of the score base. As the number of easy targets diminishes so the number of players needed to maintain the score base increases.

That coupled with the vastly larger role alliances play in "handing out" hand picked, scanned and on occasions pre calced targets to its members means that much less skill is even required in order to succeed (ie measurable skill differences) irrespective of its presence.

It's normal to see I suppose, most folks now are much more experienced than they were, so it's expected general skill levels would rise in concordance with that. What you are perhaps talking about is an increase in "lazyness" on the part of the average individual instead?

[Sun_Tzu]

Originally posted by Hicks
The players in Wolfpack and the other elite alliance of yesteryear were infinitely better than the elite of today, I dispute the fact that today's best players of today are in the same league as the best players of R2 to R4.

Player today even those in the elite alliances are just planet managers who can't to without BCs almost playing their accounts for them, in previous rounds the best players were almost BCs in their own right and were capable of operating independently.

People harp on about how much later launch times are today but they fail to realise the best have always launched at that time, people harp on about much less active you needed to be in earlier rounds but they fail to realise the best were always that active. People harp on about how much more professional the game is now and how the best players but people fail to realise how the best players are able to adapt.

To relate the argument to football it's like saying players like Booby Moore, Pushkas, Eusebio and Pele would have been rubbish if they played today because the game is more professional, the game is more physical, the game is faster and harder. What they fail to realise is players of their quality will always be at the top the same can be said of the likes of Syn Sid, Grendal, Frag, Biggdogg and Fred.

Round 1-4 required a different kind of player, a player who could excel in their own right, today all that's required is a player who can follow orders.

I'll gladly admit that the people you name at the end of your post were great(though atleast Fred and I think Biggdogg are still around and grnedel/sid didn't quit all that long ago, so the reference to someone like Pele who's been gone from football for ages is a "Tad" off)

However, I'll claim that your definition of skill is more than a mile off, the average player never needed to be a god at anything, a good player to this day is one that organises people or knows how to take advantage of them. Some get there due to their people-skills, the fact that they have a lot of friends willing to help them there and that they have been able to organise them around themselves in a way which helps them get the top ranks. The other option which in the long run I can't see lasting very long is the ones that leach on other people, who use everyone and then attempt to impress others(new victims) and ride on their previous ranks and the name they've created for them. Most good players o/c are a mixture of both, but in the end you get a game in which we've gone from individual feats to groups-performance, this is a team-sport so to say and that's what I've allways liked about it, manage your friend-base and have a lot of loyal people to ensure backing for both attacks and defence. That's the definition of skill of today, and I wonder if it didn't use to be so in the past aswell...

ps. I can't see the argument about people of yonder days being almost like BC's, I've many times talk about this with LongFellow, former Silver(pity the man) and Lithyn BC. His take on it was simply that there is nothing to learn about it really, you just need to have a decent idea of what ship does what, or at least of the most popular ones, and within a short while it'll be easy as all hell. That is if your alliance has players willing to defend each other and feel more like a family than an alliance(the problem for many biggers alliances of today and the advantage of many smaller alliance of yonder days who slowly grew bigger while retaining the same core and just making small additions to it)

[Sun_Tzu]

Originally posted by MAdnRisKy
It's normal to see I suppose, most folks now are much more experienced than they were, so it's expected general skill levels would rise in concordance with that. What you are perhaps talking about is an increase in "lazyness" on the part of the average individual instead?

Damn nice post mad, seems the strat dept agree for once(to some extent atleast, don't wanna ruin our rep )

Indeed, this lazyness is ever present, I can see it in some friends around me today, they aren't less skilled than before, hell, they put nearly no time into the game and are doing very well, it's just that some things have been made so easy so you don't have to do it yourself anymore, others have become automatical to some extent so it doesn't take as much time to do. When you learn to live with this you gradually "decay" into a less active player, making you more dependant on the alliance infrastructure and so it goes, on and on, the alliance and the community become the skill factor and the player becomes a lazy "grunt" in a vast army instead of a profile in a small task force.