Small-Medium Alliances & Powerblocks & Jonas Thread

[r72dk]

Now we´ve all seen massive alliances to ALL sides, dont tell me its just this or that other ... and we´re left to wonder why all this happened yet again.

VoM alliances gather for cooperation, everyone starts claiming its a massive powerblock and so on, while far from having 1 alliance gals has zeus suggested () i personally dont see how this can start ruining or lead to massive alliance.

Eclipse looked for alliances to team-up, seeing VoM created and unsureness about WP/Ely, still dont know how this in itself can bring some more problems and contribute to ruining the game as well.

What ive foudn that ruins the game, and seriously contribute to Massive alliance aka Powerblocking which will lead to yet another boring and sad round, are the smaller-medium alliances!!!

Who talks to me and knows me, knows that i like this kind of alliances much more than large ones, regardless of wherever i been (and beside the point atm so dont bring this into subject).

I dont know if exact words are cowards, lack of self-respect, of self-confidence or only if wish for the top spot in relative safe round, i wouldnt bet any of those for not giving way to flaming. But ive found its a bit of all those above that Sml-Med alliances share.

Hardly 2 groups of 3 alliances, make up the whole game and ffs dont constitue powerblocks in themselves, what makes them powerblocks are those alliances who hop on their backs and hope for their arses to be saved. And, sigh, many have gone from uncertainty about sidings just to leap on one when got oportunity.

So rather from complaining about Massive blocks, complain about those other lesser alliances who for themselves dont even have the decency to try somethg for their own and deserve whatever respect they would, can or will achieve.

And for those ppl who will later complain they got roided because of backstabbings and fk all we know, look at the mirror and complain about your own mistakes.

Respect and praise are attained if through your own, not at others expenses, ffs !!!
Even if ND, Skyy, SS, hirr, watever ends with 3 top10 gals will they get the credits for it ? I think not... ND did in r6 i suppose and got credit for nothing, instead their big brother Deus did, havent played last rd, but seen some standings and seen some HIRR tags high there in tops, Anyone talks abuot them ??? Anyone even takes them seriously ???

Still aprox a month to PA starts another round, already half round messed up and already ppl are complaining. Maybe we´ll go for another r5 or some other boring 3 months as i dont think there will be major roll backs.

All this just to explain and say, Shame on those alliances who lack self-confidence and ambition.... if you complain after this round, look at what your own decisions, all you wanted was just that top gal and top spot......


*sigh

r72dk

[NIN]

ena, nao sabia k escrevias tb em ingles, sim senhora..lindo menino...

continua o bom trabalho,

[MelAn]

...got your point & tend to agree!

[Felagund]

yo doy la razon a nin es un post muy lindo!!!

[isildurx]

Originally posted by MelAn
...got your point & tend to agree!

[Jonas]

Well, I think all so-far made blocks are nice of size and more or less even. Its when 2 of them starts to cooperate to take one out, without thinking of the consequences of mixing their people that makes me loose respect for them :/

[Jonas]

most of what you say is true, r72dk I agree

[Exothermic2]

Ja you right r7, but like a normal p30n complaining at the rest of the universe by pointing out it's floors, we be powerless to stop it.

I think if we twat everyone at the begining and keep them down all round we will enjoy it more. I put in an aplication for free eonium and 123 fleet slots.

Not sure what the outcome will be yet, they haven't replied.

[Exothermic2]

Oh, not saying you're a normal p3on r7, we úber fags remember ;-)

[hAl]

It is not the selfconfindence that breaks us up. Some of the smaller alliances have simular quality players as lots of the bigger alliances allthough often the top players leave them to quickly. Still there are only a few alliances that have truly overall beter qualities than others in every round.

Generally those alliance who are favorite for a round are very recognizable even before a round starts. Those alliance generally will do wel and so will the alliances who are directly allied to them. Problem for smaller alliances is that they can't get allied to those few top alliances.

The alliance who have the potential to win a forthcoming round look for strong sized partners with stable command staff. Those are generally alliance who have already shown good rounds, have solid memberscount but are not favorites to win such a round. You might think of Elysium or Virus for instance.

Alliances like ND or Hirr do not have the number to support a possible winning alliance and cannot fill the shared galaxies with enough good players. Alliances who mass recruit (not sure but earlier rounds ipc and UV might have been like those) might have in some rounds the memberbase but not the stability or quality needed to allie with the top.

Sometimes a small alliance gets a good break and gets tied into the a block with solid allies. ToT might be a good example for that maybe. They probably combined a good enough playerquality to start with with good political connections in the top alliances. Because of this they can do well in a round which in turn keeps your memberbase stable or even attact some new good players and they will be an interresting partner for next round.

But most often the smaller alliance have lesser allies and have a mediocre round and then run the risk of losing a few of their top players (those who have ambitions for top places) to alliances who won in the last round. This makes it very hard to compete again in next round. Generally the small alliances therefore have a solid command and a very relaxed and pleasant atmosphere (Hirr, Rock) to keep members in the alliance.

hAl

[Scoot951]

Originally posted by hAl

Alliances like ND or Hirr do not have the number to support a possible winning alliance and cannot fill the shared galaxies with enough good players. Alliances who mass recruit (not sure but earlier rounds ipc and UV might have been like those) might have in some rounds the memberbase but not the stability or quality needed to allie with the top.

I think the point (if it's not the point, it should be ) is not so much that the small-mediums should try and win independantly, but that they should team up together rather than try and suck up to one of the 'power'blocks.


Even if not all the blocks were even, I have the feeling a 4-block round would be quite interesting. (as long as they stay independant of each other, ofc)

[Faberius]

ND never wanted public recognition in Round 6 and was quite happy with what happened.

In the past ND has aspired to increase its military capabilities, but there has been an extreme reluctance to do so at the expense of our community atmosphere.

In effect, R7 et al. We have chosen our lot, and we are content with it. We won't be in a position to win a round independantly but I am optimistic of our top 10 chances, and perhaps even top 5, depending on how the round goes.

[Buly The Great]

Hot damn, I didn't know that ND didn't want recognition in r6. After all, I should know since I was in the command then.
Actually, I can't say that we wanted it either. But it's wrong saying that we didn't my dear CC

[Jonas]

Heya Buly

Originally posted by hAl

... Alliances like ND or Hirr ..... solid command and a very relaxed and pleasant atmosphere (Hirr, Rock) ...
hAl

It's hirr , not Hirr. Thxbye.

[Faberius]

Originally posted by Buly The Great
Hot damn, I didn't know that ND didn't want recognition in r6. After all, I should know since I was in the command then.
Actually, I can't say that we wanted it either. But it's wrong saying that we didn't my dear CC

Considering you weren't in command for the latter part of the round, and that for that part I was the leader of ND, I don't think its quite wrong, dear

[Buly The Great]

I was there almost until the end, and even then, I read the boards and posted every day. There was never a discussion about wanting or not wanting recognition from that round.
Maybe you thought that we didn't want any recognition, but I don't think it was a joint command desicion, since the subject was never discussed with the whole command m8. We were to concentrated on keeping ND kicking and beeing able to even have one gal covered per night back then, since we had the problem with the bigger members not attacking to often with ND since they hit more with their gals.
And the whole leader part, I don't think it was to clear before r7, you can't become leader just over one night. I remember the whole leader part coming up first towards the end of the round when you suddenly decided to quit and started the drama about Riddim so that there would be one HC less opposing the fact that you wanted to be leader in ND and not beeing able to handle people arguing against you.

[Faberius]

That was February. Round started January.

Riddim quit in February and then leadership in ND was discussed. Your disapproval, plus Hardballs unwillingness to take it, left ND with the same 5 HC structure.

Come March we find that in a short 2 week period 3 ND HC, that being you, Jellinek and Hardball all resign due to one reason or another. We still have a good month and a half of round left.

At that point the long march to "Chairman of ND" started.

No one in the command structure of ND after march would contest that I was in overall command of every department, oweing to the newness of the HC at the time.


PS: Riddim and I have made up a long time ago over that, not sure what bringing it up again will attempt to disprove or prove

[Buly The Great]

And why did Riddim quit in February?
Yes, there was a drastic change in the ND structure cause of HB's burnout, Jellinek leaving (don't remember the reason) and my stepping down due to rl, and loosing the spirit. But, there were suggestions of a 3-man HC. Imo when I look back now we should've disbanded ND back then, since ND totally changed from what it used to be before after all that happening. And there weren't enough people around that could take the HC job to fill in the whole structure with the people missing, the one that ND should've had, and should've stayed to.
When I actually look back at things, and thought then to tbh but didn't want to start huge arguments that would've broken ND for sure, is that you couldn't take the fact that everything didn't always end up the exact way you wanted it to, and that's why you wanted the leaderstructure, with ofcourse you beeing the leader.

[Faberius]

Originally posted by Buly The Great

When I actually look back at things, and thought then to tbh but didn't want to start huge arguments that would've broken ND for sure, is that you couldn't take the fact that everything didn't always end up the exact way you wanted it to, and that's why you wanted the leaderstructure, with ofcourse you beeing the leader.

I came from YHQ. YHQ had a 'leader structure'. When we merged I suggested a leadership structure, with I believe, Riddim as leader.

When Riddim quit, I suggested a leadership structure with Hardball or myself as choices. I would have served under Hardball fine, its just my own philosophy that a leader prevents arguements, like the one we're having at the moment.

I have, for the past 4 months served under Barrow as Chairman of ND. If I was as truly power hungry as you are implying, would I still just be his EA Chief?

I've spend a month either in vacation or on a sabbatical where I wasn't an active member of NewDawn. I've spent 13 months as an HC of an alliance which at first didn't even want to accept me as an HC. I think this is enough evidence that I'm not in ND solely to boost my own ego.

Should ND have been disbanded when you quit? No. I think you have a very high opinion of yourself if you think ND shouldn't have outlived your own tenure as its HC.

[TehVader]

Originally posted by Buly The Great
stuff

I'd just like to point out that during r6 we generally took 3-4 gals every night, since I arranged all of those I think I should know

[JC]

Col was the best HC around when i was in ND, i think it was only common sense that if a leader was to be elected it would be him. He always seemed to have ND's interests at heart rather than his own, and was always approachable, whatever path ND was going to take it was going to do its best being lead by him.

Good luck next round ND .

Originally posted by TehVader
I'd just like to point out that during r6 we generally took 3-4 gals every night, since I arranged all of those I think I should know

I was up attacking/defending most nights of r6 with ND, we didnt take 3-4 gals a night. We attacked every night, but not on that large a scale, and i know my memory isnt fading here

[Buly The Great]

No, I didn't say that ND should've disbanded cause I quit. But I was not the only one. Like you stated yourself, 3 HC's out of 5 stepped down within 2 weeks, and another one had stepped down sometime before that. And we were having troubles with getting people to replace the past HC. I'd say it's a very big blow for an alliance to take. And Hardball had been talking of quitting before the whole Leadership structure stuff was talked about.
And, you didn't still answer me of why Riddim quit. Do you remember? I do.
And you beeing HC of an alliance for 13 months even if you didn't want to? lol. About what's been going on after that, I can't say since I was offline for quite a time due to rl stuff.
If you really didn't want to then you wouldn't. Sure, I remember us talking you into coming back, that's when you were in NoS. But, when I began doing it less, then you'd start talking about it more and then agree to coming back.
About having a high opinion of yourself. Wrong. I'm not the one with "Auld founder" in my sig.

[Buly The Great]

Originally posted by TehVader
I'd just like to point out that during r6 we generally took 3-4 gals every night, since I arranged all of those I think I should know

Shouldn't this reply be in the other thread where we're talking about r6
You did a great job in r6 though my friend.

[Barrow|Pony]

Words are words.

ND exists as it is today because of the countless contributions of numerous excellent people.

No matter who quit when, the PA community wouldnt be the way it is without ND, and thats something we can all be proud of.



(r72dk - we poached your thread, apologies.)

[Faberius]

I was up attacking/defending most nights of r6 with ND, we didnt take 3-4 gals a night. We attacked every night, but not on that large a scale, and i know my memory isnt fading here

The 3-4 figure includes 2 battlegroups that were affiliated with ND at the time. ND proper never had anymore than 2 attacks per night.

Anyways I've spoken enough, and I don't feel like dredging up ancient history anymore today

[Buly The Great]

Originally posted by JC
Col was the best HC around when i was in ND, i think it was only common sense that if a leader was to be elected it would be him. He always seemed to have ND's interests at heart rather than his own, and was always approachable, whatever path ND was going to take it was going to do its best being lead by him.

Good luck next round ND .



I was up attacking/defending most nights of r6 with ND, we didnt take 3-4 gals a night. We attacked every night, but not on that large a scale, and i know my memory isnt fading here

I'm not here to slag off ND. But there was alot of things done in the command in r6 that the members, hardly any officers know of. Yus, ColCarpenter was a great HC, but there are others that got less credit than they deserve ,mostly Hardball as he worked his arse off which made him burn out. Sure, I know that some members saw him as an arse, since he'd snap sometimes, but there were reasons behind that to.

Anyways, as Barrow says, enough is enough, and I don't want to start a bigger argument.
I still love ND, but it's not the same as it was before. But hey, everything changes, and I do not hold grudges. Some things just have to be said sometimes. Anyways, last post for tonight, I have to be up for work in 6-7 hours.

And yus, I also would like to appologize to r72dk for poaching the thread m8

[Teh_Necro]

If i'm honest, i find people overestimating WEE. I think VoM will be quite a worthy opnent, especially seeing as Virus is arguably the best alliance in the game atm (fk me i never thought id ever find myself saying that, funny how things change heh).

-Necro

[JonnyBGood]

Originally posted by Teh_Necro
If i'm honest, i find people overestimating WEE. I think VoM will be quite a worthy opnent, especially seeing as Virus is arguably the best alliance in the game atm (fk me i never thought id ever find myself saying that, funny how things change heh).

-Necro

I have to say I'd agree here. I don't see the VoM block dissolving in one blinding flash personally. The madcows community, the winning ways of olympians (who I'm told are ex-titans) from r8 and the combined experience of some of their HCs would tend to eliminate any remote possibility of a total collapse early on. They're still a sizeable force and if they play the intel game right they...........I just realised that the giant counter-block, if anything like that really will exist which I'd doubt due to sheer unwieldiness, can guess who they are immediately by simple elimination of their own players (and the driftwood) from the universe heh.

[TehVader]

Originally posted by JC
Col was the best HC around when i was in ND, i think it was only common sense that if a leader was to be elected it would be him. He always seemed to have ND's interests at heart rather than his own, and was always approachable, whatever path ND was going to take it was going to do its best being lead by him.

Good luck next round ND .



I was up attacking/defending most nights of r6 with ND, we didnt take 3-4 gals a night. We attacked every night, but not on that large a scale, and i know my memory isnt fading here

I'm afraid you are wrong, there were usually 1 attack for only ND members. That does not mean that we didn't have gals and sistergals (bg's) that attacked too. Belive me I do know since I arranged this every night

[TehVader]

Originally posted by Buly The Great
Shouldn't this reply be in the other thread where we're talking about r6
You did a great job in r6 though my friend.

It should, but I just couldn't get myself to start reading it.

*Edit* I noticed Col beat me in answering JC

[Jester]

Originally posted by Jonas
Well, I think all so-far made blocks are nice of size and more or less even. Its when 2 of them starts to cooperate to take one out, without thinking of the consequences of mixing their people that makes me loose respect for them :/

Then why do you not simply state that you have no respect for them? If your knowledge on the subject is inferior, you have but to extrapolate from the public signs. I can only assume you go by the assumption that your only source of knowledge is your best source. Pitiful.

Jester

[Reidy]

i still had the best ass in nd
ner ner

[Buly The Great]

w00t, Reidy, long time no see m8.

[Waku]

yeah but we can never tough it again btw this discussion could have been taken to #newdawn and if ND got recognition we would have gotten it r2/3 but that time BlueTuba was bigger and we were like the little brother of BT so nobody really saw ND

[Caledan]

Originally posted by r72dk


[...]

What ive foudn that ruins the game, and seriously contribute to Massive alliance aka Powerblocking which will lead to yet another boring and sad round, are the smaller-medium alliances!!!

Who talks to me and knows me, knows that i like this kind of alliances much more than large ones, regardless of wherever i been (and beside the point atm so dont bring this into subject).

I dont know if exact words are cowards, lack of self-respect, of self-confidence or only if wish for the top spot in relative safe round, i wouldnt bet any of those for not giving way to flaming. But ive found its a bit of all those above that Sml-Med alliances share.

Hardly 2 groups of 3 alliances, make up the whole game and ffs dont constitue powerblocks in themselves, what makes them powerblocks are those alliances who hop on their backs and hope for their arses to be saved. And, sigh, many have gone from uncertainty about sidings just to leap on one when got oportunity.

[...]

*sigh

r72dk

In an effort to turn this thread into the original direction again I will quote the important part, posted by r72dk.

I think you are really right with your ideas. The smaller alliances should try to find different ways.

The idea to join a big block, is to be part of the winning side. Therefore be seen as a winner by the PA community an earn respect.
In reality this idea doesn't work though. You may be on the winning side, but who will notice that you have been around? If you are lucky and not one of the real small alliances you get the honour to provide a LETTER to the joint TAG lol. Most alliances won't be even noticed though, cause they are secret agreements in the background often used as flak for the big ones.
So earning respect by joining a big block is very unlickely.

If you instead go and ally with other alliances who are about the same size, it will be much easier for you to earn respect. First from your partners and if you are able to do an impact of any kind to the game, also from the community.

Ofc the 'right' alliances are not easy to find. And ofc teaming up with more than just one or two alliances bears some risks and maybe instability.
/me still thinks of the CAT Block in R7. These group of 7 alliances broke later into the round.

But still by chosing this way, your chances of earning respect even from bigger alliances are way better.

As HC of ROCK for a few rounds now, I also saw a certain development for ROCK.

In earlier days we tend to ally with a bigger alliance. As I just explained that isn't and it wasn't the way to go.

Noone took notice of us, when we joined a bigger block. I just realized that it has become sort of quiet agreement in ROCK-HC that we try to go independet into each new round.
Sometimes we joined a side later, sometime we stayed out of the war completly.

For R9 Rock will again try to find it's place.
When looking at the alliance list, I still see quite a lot alliances that are not mentioned in one of the blocks.
Seems like the PA community doesn't realize there are still more alliances than those in the blocks and my respect goes to those alliance HCs who try to find different ways for their alliance and members.

Good luck to you all!

[Waku]

who doesnt want a top spot?

[hyfe]

Originally posted by Waku
who doesnt want a top spot?

me and probably a quite large part of the pa-community.
'power comes at a price'

[Waku]

let me say it different then... Who never Wanted a top spot?

[hydridia]

Would have to give much respect to the old ND crew! always seemed to be there doing your stuff, poking ur head up now and then so we could see u!


although one day i will get Barrow and his ponies!!

(p.s barrow u seen slayer about?)

[Gayle29uk]

Originally posted by hydridia
(p.s barrow u seen slayer about?)

And if you have point him our way

/me waves to Stan.

[Silva baby]

Originally posted by Teh_Necro
If i'm honest, i find people overestimating WEE. I think VoM will be quite a worthy opnent, especially seeing as Virus is arguably the best alliance in the game atm (fk me i never thought id ever find myself saying that, funny how things change heh).

-Necro

o so now WEE is being overestimated
great
so is Ely really that weak in that block for them to be overestimated since when did WP and Eclipse were so overly estimated

read mah sarcasm btw

[Satoeng]

Why dont we just wait how the round will
run?

Alliances or blocks being in the center of everyones attention before even round has started tend to get bashed badly.
Everyone is so scared so they start forming counterbloxx....

Lets see what will happen.

Originally posted by Jonas
most of what you say is true, r72dk I agree