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Unread 9 Feb 2006, 21:06   #101
Dante Hicks
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Re: Jihad. Reality or Stage-Managed Psychological Warfare

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flavius
So?

I think it's a pretty good way to live life.
If you want to live your life according to lies and idiocy...

Well, obviously you probably do, but nvm.
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Unread 9 Feb 2006, 21:10   #102
MrL_JaKiri
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Re: Jihad. Reality or Stage-Managed Psychological Warfare

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flavius
So?

I think it's a pretty good way to live life.
It's "a pretty good way to live life" to have a brain tumour that leaves you constantly euphoric.
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Unread 9 Feb 2006, 21:15   #103
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Re: Jihad. Reality or Stage-Managed Psychological Warfare

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Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri
an earlier stage of human evolution.
like these people?
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Unread 9 Feb 2006, 21:16   #104
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Re: Jihad. Reality or Stage-Managed Psychological Warfare

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Originally Posted by Flavius
Sort of.
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Unread 9 Feb 2006, 21:17   #105
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Re: Jihad. Reality or Stage-Managed Psychological Warfare

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
If you want to live your life according to lies and idiocy...

Well, obviously you probably do, but nvm.
Please, don't take me wrong. I don't believe in God but I certainly see some benefits to it. Don't you?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri
It's "a pretty good way to live life" to have a brain tumour that leaves you constantly euphoric.
Or take drugs. If you want, you can argue that the only person that is living his life the way it makes sense is.. perhaps.. yourself?
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Unread 9 Feb 2006, 21:18   #106
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Re: Jihad. Reality or Stage-Managed Psychological Warfare

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Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri
Sort of.
Do you understand now how Archers can beat off Helicopters in Civ?
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Unread 9 Feb 2006, 21:21   #107
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Re: Jihad. Reality or Stage-Managed Psychological Warfare

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Originally Posted by Flavius
Or take drugs. If you want, you can argue that the only person that is living his life the way it makes sense is.. perhaps.. yourself?
This isn't really a very good argument for organised religion, you know.
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Unread 9 Feb 2006, 21:22   #108
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Re: Jihad. Reality or Stage-Managed Psychological Warfare

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flavius
Do you understand now how Archers can beat off Helicopters in Civ?
:fap:
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Unread 9 Feb 2006, 21:23   #109
Dante Hicks
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Re: Jihad. Reality or Stage-Managed Psychological Warfare

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flavius
Please, don't take me wrong. I don't believe in God but I certainly see some benefits to it. Don't you?
Not really. I'm sure it brings comfort for those people who choose to surround themselves in such foolishness, but it wouldn't make me happy. I'd be pretty depressed if I thought there was a god, I think.
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Unread 9 Feb 2006, 21:28   #110
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Re: Jihad. Reality or Stage-Managed Psychological Warfare

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri
This isn't really a very good argument for organised religion, you know.
There's a difference between believing in God and believing in religion. Organised religion comes from the latter (surprisingly enough).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
Not really.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
I'm sure it brings comfort for those people.
Are you saying comfort isn't a benefit?
Or perhaps you thought the word "benefit" only applies to you?

Also,

Have you read Plato's "Allegory of the Cave"?
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Unread 9 Feb 2006, 21:30   #111
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Re: Jihad. Reality or Stage-Managed Psychological Warfare

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
Not really. I'm sure it brings comfort for those people who choose to surround themselves in such foolishness, but it wouldn't make me happy. I'd be pretty depressed if I thought there was a god, I think.
Religion is not primarily for comfort.
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Unread 9 Feb 2006, 21:32   #112
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Re: Jihad. Reality or Stage-Managed Psychological Warfare

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flavius
There's a difference between believing in God and believing in religion. Organised religion comes from the latter (surprisingly enough).
People like to not be alone. One of the major reasons why there are so many explicit crazies on the internet is because, no matter how stupid what they think is, there will be someone who shares their beliefs. "Belief in god", no matter how individual, will almost inevitably lead to organised religion.

But that's not really the point in any case, belief in god is an unnecessary crutch at best and an active hindrance at worst.
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Unread 9 Feb 2006, 21:34   #113
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Re: Jihad. Reality or Stage-Managed Psychological Warfare

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boogster
Religion is not primarily for comfort.
Religion, especially with arguments like religion vs evolution, has about the same logical value as being a policeman, walking into a room where there's a still warm corpse and a blood spattered man standing above him holding a knife and shouting "I did it, I DID IT HE DESERVED IT THE BASTARD" and you then going and arresting the butler instead.
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Unread 9 Feb 2006, 21:35   #114
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Re: Jihad. Reality or Stage-Managed Psychological Warfare

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri
People like to not be alone. One of the major reasons why there are so many explicit crazies on the internet is because, no matter how stupid what they think is, there will be someone who shares their beliefs. "Belief in god", no matter how individual, will almost inevitably lead to organised religion.

But that's not really the point in any case, belief in god is an unnecessary crutch at best and an active hindrance at worst.
A hindrance? What does belief in a God obstruct?

Progress? Towards what?

What do you believe in? What's your raison d'etre?
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Unread 9 Feb 2006, 21:37   #115
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Re: Jihad. Reality or Stage-Managed Psychological Warfare

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri
But that's not really the point in any case, belief in god is an unnecessary crutch at best and an active hindrance at worst.
In a society where religion is (supposedly) detached from politics and life in a community, how does belief in god constitute more of an hindrance than, let's say, habits.
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Unread 9 Feb 2006, 21:41   #116
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Re: Jihad. Reality or Stage-Managed Psychological Warfare

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flavius
Have you read Plato's "Allegory of the Cave"?
The devout masses chained to their pews forced to listen to the shadow preist for all eternity?

Surely you can see this works both ways.
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Unread 9 Feb 2006, 21:42   #117
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Re: Jihad. Reality or Stage-Managed Psychological Warfare

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Originally Posted by Boogster
A hindrance? What does belief in a God obstruct?
Emotional balance for one (see that episode of South Park where Stan's dad drink-drives for a parody of this). Stem cell research for another - "hindrances" don't have to be individual.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boogster
Progress? Towards what?
You implied here that I said "progress", when I did not. In any case, the persuit of knowledge is its own reward.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boogster
What do you believe in? What's your raison d'etre?
If I could be said to believe in anything, it would be the ingenuity and skill of man. This can vary from large scales to trivial - the latter end being represented by something like faith in the ability of Tim Shafer or Chris Avallone to make good computer games.
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Unread 9 Feb 2006, 21:45   #118
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Re: Jihad. Reality or Stage-Managed Psychological Warfare

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Originally Posted by Cooling
The devout masses chained to their pews forced to listen to the shadow preist for all eternity?

Surely you can see this works both ways.
So can religion.
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Unread 9 Feb 2006, 21:46   #119
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Re: Jihad. Reality or Stage-Managed Psychological Warfare

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Originally Posted by Flavius
So can religion.
:rolleyes:
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Unread 9 Feb 2006, 21:47   #120
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Re: Jihad. Reality or Stage-Managed Psychological Warfare

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Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri
Emotional balance for one (see that episode of South Park where Stan's dad drink-drives for a parody of this).
I believe that popular entertainment is more of a hindrance than religion.
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Unread 9 Feb 2006, 21:47   #121
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Re: Jihad. Reality or Stage-Managed Psychological Warfare

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Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri
:rolleyes:
:o
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Unread 9 Feb 2006, 21:47   #122
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Re: Jihad. Reality or Stage-Managed Psychological Warfare

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flavius
I believe that popular entertainment is more of a hindrance than religion.
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Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri
:rolleyes:
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Unread 9 Feb 2006, 21:49   #123
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Re: Jihad. Reality or Stage-Managed Psychological Warfare

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Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri
:rolleyes:
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Unread 9 Feb 2006, 21:54   #124
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Re: Jihad. Reality or Stage-Managed Psychological Warfare

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri
Emotional balance for one (see that episode of South Park where Stan's dad drink-drives for a parody of this). Stem cell research for another - "hindrances" don't have to be individual.
Ridiculous. How many religious people do you know? Do they all have the same inbuilt tendency to bomb things? How do you define 'emotional balance', anyway?
I don't see how belief in a God necessarily hinders stem cell research, either.
And I don't give a toss about South Park.

Quote:
You implied here that I said "progress", when I did not. In any case, the persuit of knowledge is its own reward.
It was an educated guess. Not far off the mark, as it happens.

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If I could be said to believe in anything, it would be the ingenuity and skill of man. This can vary from large scales to trivial - the latter end being represented by something like faith in the ability of Tim Shafer or Chris Avallone to make good computer games.
I believe in the fallibility of man.
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Unread 9 Feb 2006, 22:03   #125
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Re: Jihad. Reality or Stage-Managed Psychological Warfare

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Originally Posted by Boogster
Ridiculous. How many religious people do you know?
Quite a few.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boogster
Do they all have the same inbuilt tendency to bomb things? How do you define 'emotional balance', anyway? I don't see how belief in a God necessarily hinders stem cell research, either.
You know where I made absolute statements about this kind of thing, and didn't in the slightest suggest a spectrum?

Oh wait, I did the exact opposite of that and you're just being retarded.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boogster
And I don't give a toss about South Park.
Pity, it's intelligent and insightful. It might do you some good.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boogster
I believe in the fallibility of man.
Yeah, that too. Doesn't really matter though, as I don't believe in infallability.

[edit]

I missed the question about emotional balance the first time around. Despite what Nietzsche may think, truth is more valuable than falsehood. Basing your wellbeing upon something imaginary is not healthy - see the first episode of Penn & Teller's Bullshit! for an example of a rant about this.
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Unread 9 Feb 2006, 22:04   #126
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Re: Jihad. Reality or Stage-Managed Psychological Warfare

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flavius
What's so wrong in believing in God?



I would never work for an Italian since they don't pay on it, if at all.

Your point being?

My point is they cannot be trusted.

I find their beliefs offensive, and the way they treat women (even their own) as second class citizens.
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Unread 9 Feb 2006, 22:46   #127
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Re: Jihad. Reality or Stage-Managed Psychological Warfare

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Originally Posted by Judge
My point is they cannot be trusted.

I find their beliefs offensive, and the way they treat women (even their own) as second class citizens.
culture != religion
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Unread 9 Feb 2006, 23:31   #128
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Re: Jihad. Reality or Stage-Managed Psychological Warfare

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri
You know where I made absolute statements about this kind of thing, and didn't in the slightest suggest a spectrum?

Oh wait, I did the exact opposite of that and you're just being retarded.
Italics are great, aren't they. Really strike fear into the heart of an opponent.

Anyhow, I don't see any spectrum mentioned.

Forgive me for not referring to a corpus of your earlier posts, if indeed you do mention said spectrum.

Quote:
Pity, it's intelligent and insightful. It might do you some good.
I do enjoy South Park occasionally. I'm not sure it presents an altogether accurate picture of mankind, though.

Quote:
Yeah, that too. Doesn't really matter though, as I don't believe in infallability.

[edit]

I missed the question about emotional balance the first time around. Despite what Nietzsche may think, truth is more valuable than falsehood. Basing your wellbeing upon something imaginary is not healthy - see the first episode of Penn & Teller's Bullshit! for an example of a rant about this.
I hate to fall back on the "bless you, but can you prove God doesn't exist" counter, but it's appropriate here.

If, of course, your idea of 'truth' is a relative, subjective belief then this doesn't matter, though you will have nullified your entire point.
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Unread 9 Feb 2006, 23:36   #129
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Re: Jihad. Reality or Stage-Managed Psychological Warfare

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boogster
Forgive me for not referring to a corpus of your earlier posts, if indeed you do mention said spectrum.
You replied to the post containing it, maybe you should try to work on that memory or comprehension problem you have, and not take it out on me?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boogster
I hate to fall back on the "bless you, but can you prove God doesn't exist" counter, but it's appropriate here.

If, of course, your idea of 'truth' is a relative, subjective belief then this doesn't matter, though you will have nullified your entire point.
Truth is what we can prove to be true. If it were any other way, why would it be considered truth?
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Unread 10 Feb 2006, 00:50   #130
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Re: Jihad. Reality or Stage-Managed Psychological Warfare

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flavius
Are you saying comfort isn't a benefit? Or perhaps you thought the word "benefit" only applies to you?
I'm saying I wouldn't see it as a benefit to me, although for other people perhaps. I don't see what people get out of kneeling before "the almighty", in fact - it sickens me. But I can intellectually imagine they are enjoying their servitude on some level.

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Have you read Plato's "Allegory of the Cave"?
Yes.
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Unread 10 Feb 2006, 00:51   #131
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Re: Jihad. Reality or Stage-Managed Psychological Warfare

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boogster
I hate to fall back on the "bless you, but can you prove God doesn't exist" counter, but it's appropriate here.
You can't prove I'm not god.
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Unread 10 Feb 2006, 00:55   #132
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Re: Jihad. Reality or Stage-Managed Psychological Warfare

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Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
You can't prove I'm not god.
I can!
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Unread 10 Feb 2006, 00:58   #133
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Re: Jihad. Reality or Stage-Managed Psychological Warfare

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Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri
I can!
No you can't, I'm god and I know you can't. Please don't confuse yourself.
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Unread 10 Feb 2006, 01:50   #134
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Re: Jihad. Reality or Stage-Managed Psychological Warfare

1) God is the greatest possible being and thus possesses all perfections.
2) Existence is a perfection.
3) God exists.

O rly?

Think of the benefits!
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Unread 10 Feb 2006, 14:35   #135
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Re: Jihad. Reality or Stage-Managed Psychological Warfare

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flavius
as promised.

Now, will someone please call these 700 000 people terrorists, or "warring tribes with no cohesion other than when theres an attack on their faith, at which time they attack like a pack of wild dogs".
So basically they announced that they will "defend" the prophet worldwide, cant forgive, be silent or ease up about insults against their prophet and their sacred values and plainly state that they will defend their prophet with their blood, not their voices "if they have to" and there would be no compromise before the EU and the individual national assemblies in Europe restrict freedom of press how they want it.

That was your "Islam is peaceful and civilised" example? Dont get me wrong - there have been examples like Imams protecting foreign buildings with their bodies against vandals.

And about "warring tribes with no cohesion other than when theres an attack on their faith, at which time they attack like a pack of wild dogs" - i personally find that description pretty insulting and derogative, but isnt it funny that two days ago the representatives of the 16 muslim organisations in germany _for the first time ever_ managed to make a mutual statement together due to these cartoons.
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Unread 10 Feb 2006, 14:41   #136
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Re: Jihad. Reality or Stage-Managed Psychological Warfare

Quote:
"At your service, oh Mohammed, at your service, oh Prophet of God," the crowds chanted with fists raised. "Death to America, Death to Israel."
Is that what was chanted at the peaceful demonstration?
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Unread 10 Feb 2006, 14:49   #137
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Re: Jihad. Reality or Stage-Managed Psychological Warfare

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
Is that what was chanted at the peaceful demonstration?
No,

Quote:
At your service, oh Mohammed, at your service, oh Prophet of God, Death to America, Death to Israel.
was
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Unread 10 Feb 2006, 14:56   #138
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Re: Jihad. Reality or Stage-Managed Psychological Warfare

In a battle of the pedants between MrL and the oxford english dictionary the dictionary committed suicide.
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