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Unread 17 Jan 2006, 19:23   #101
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Re: ****ing Animal Rights Protesters

Quote:
Originally Posted by Green Spit
Hell, thats a good one. They teach humour at that there university of yours too do they
No, students there are of the intelligence to make their own. Hopefully some day there'll be a step-by-step guide to help you, since you appear to be lacking any yourself.
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Unread 17 Jan 2006, 19:27   #102
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Re: ****ing Animal Rights Protesters

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri
Talking of the arabs...

Mark Steyn wrote in today's Telegraph that the best way to deal with the threat of nuclear weapons in Iran was to fund revolutionary groups.
That article was seriously difficult to get through. It's not that I dislike the whole let's stoop to their level morally speaking deal, I'm not one for not kicking people in the crotch when they're not looking, but do we really need to equal or surpass the number of logical fallacies in the average insane fundamentalist speech?
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Unread 17 Jan 2006, 19:28   #103
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Re: ****ing Animal Rights Protesters

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
That article was seriously difficult to get through.
Mark Steyn.
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Unread 17 Jan 2006, 19:30   #104
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Re: ****ing Animal Rights Protesters

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri
Mark Steyn.
I'm not really following. Are you referring to the fact he has a jewish name? He does have a jewish name doesn't he?
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Unread 17 Jan 2006, 19:31   #105
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Re: ****ing Animal Rights Protesters

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
I'm not really following. Are you referring to the fact he has a jewish name? He does have a jewish name doesn't he?
No, he's just an idiot. But that article was truly the depths of madness.
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Unread 17 Jan 2006, 19:32   #106
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Re: ****ing Animal Rights Protesters

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri
No, he's just an idiot. But that article was truly the depths of madness.
The best bit was when he talked about jack straw's mullah-coddling. There was so much wrong with that it was seriously difficult to know where to begin.
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Unread 17 Jan 2006, 19:35   #107
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Re: ****ing Animal Rights Protesters

If you search for Mark Steyn on the Telegraph website, you get some truly fantastic articles.
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Unread 17 Jan 2006, 19:41   #108
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Re: ****ing Animal Rights Protesters

The real point here is that you should only **** animal rights protestors if they consent.
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Unread 17 Jan 2006, 21:14   #109
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Re: ****ing Animal Rights Protesters

Quote:
Originally Posted by horn
because i'm not going to be able to read both those writers' work in the next 5 minutes could you maybe briefly explain the difference between their "rights theory" and social contract theory(s) ?
A social contract usually implies some sort of "positive rights" (or duties) on behalf of either society or the individual (or both). So the individual must do x or y, in return for a or b. It generally involves surrendering some sort of rights they might have in a natural state (in return for security, or peace or whatnot).

Rights theory generally focuses on specific entities having natural rights by virtue of their status / characteristics (as thinking, conscious men). I've not read Nozick or Rand extensively so I can't comment too extensively on their version of it. But there's no real surrendering of freedoms in the same form as under social contract, and it's not a "contract" as such (either real or hypothetical). However, there is an element of presumed reciprocation in all of this since if you commit a crime then you are punished. But that's more to do with the use of force.

Read the Wiki entries for both "rights" and "social contract" to get a general summary, my explanation is pants.
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Unread 17 Jan 2006, 22:00   #110
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Re: ****ing Animal Rights Protesters

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri
No, he's just an idiot. But that article was truly the depths of madness.
One has to hope that he's being ironic.

He's most certainly a bona-fide, knee-slapping, fundamentalist nut-case who should be confined post-haste if not.
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Unread 17 Jan 2006, 22:16   #111
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Re: ****ing Animal Rights Protesters

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Originally Posted by Boogster
One has to hope that he's being ironic.
He's not. Welcome to the Telegraph Opinion articles.
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Unread 17 Jan 2006, 22:26   #112
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Re: ****ing Animal Rights Protesters

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri
I think you've missed some of the subtlety of his argument somewhat - the word "direct". It's very difficult to say that, especially in medicine, lives are saved directly as the result of a single experiment, or small group of experiments. Are lives saved by animal testing? Absolutely. However, proving that lives have been saved directly as the result of a vivisection experiment is nigh on impossible.
Perhaps. It doesn't detract from my point tho. All he has proof of is that either no one was willing, or no one was able, to prove it. The fact that the word 'directly' is in there is what makes it so difficult to prove. We could get onto the argument of whether or not lives can in fact be directly saved by animal testing, but due to our prior observations regarding the fact that this is difficult to prove either way, I rather think we'd be wasting our time. You do bring up a good point tho, with the direct/indirect distinction - so many lives have been saved indirectly by animal testing, it renders his point somewhat redundant in any case.
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Unread 17 Jan 2006, 22:43   #113
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Re: ****ing Animal Rights Protesters

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Originally Posted by Jennifer
I rather think we'd be wasting our time.
Which is what he's doing - it's a rhetorical trick, nothing more.
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Unread 18 Jan 2006, 03:08   #114
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Re: ****ing Animal Rights Protesters

To try and break these silly circles that seem to be forming.... Look! Stuff on cats!.

Don't smash my windows now....
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Unread 18 Jan 2006, 11:09   #115
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Re: ****ing Animal Rights Protesters

Quote:
Originally Posted by Green Spit
I'm sure we all look forward to another Vernon Coleman commentary on the matter.
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Unread 18 Jan 2006, 13:10   #116
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Re: ****ing Animal Rights Protesters

Quote:
Originally Posted by Green Spit
Actually, that's not true. That is evidence that you shouldn't let men near animals. Cos both of them were men. It's just a coincidence that they were university students.
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Unread 18 Jan 2006, 13:22   #117
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Re: ****ing Animal Rights Protesters

I dont understand what theyve actually been charged with I initially assumed it involved tampering with mail ("it had chewed through the envelope"), but then:

Quote:
Jordan, of Ely in Cambs, and Cole, of Marchwood, Southampton, both admitted abandoning a hamster in circumstances likely to cause suffering.
:lol:
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Unread 18 Jan 2006, 14:33   #118
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Re: ****ing Animal Rights Protesters

I see they had less problems than when I tried to mail vernon coleman a cougar yesterday.
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Unread 18 Jan 2006, 16:10   #119
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Re: ****ing Animal Rights Protesters

If we're going by what (small) groups of Cambridge students have done recently, students shouldn't be allowed in:

1. Shops
2. Restaurants
3. Places with animals
4. Labs
5. Libraries
6. Other peoples' rooms
7. Cambridge
8. Not Cambridge

It's like arguing that because a student stole a mobile phone, Cambridge shouldn't have a Law faculty.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Green Spit
Seriously, these guys are pricks.
I'm not even sure what they were trying to accomplish. Sending a hamster through the post seems a strange thing to do for its own sake.

[edit]

Churchill? Oh, that explains everything.
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Unread 18 Jan 2006, 17:28   #120
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Re: ****ing Animal Rights Protesters

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
I see they had less problems than when I tried to mail vernon coleman a cougar yesterday.
i dont think a better image will ever appear in my head than the one presently there.
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Unread 18 Jan 2006, 17:38   #121
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Re: ****ing Animal Rights Protesters

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phang
i dont think a better image will ever appear in my head than the one presently there.
Since we're on the subject of animals, did you ever hear Feels last year? I just got it at the weekend and holy shit.
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Unread 18 Jan 2006, 17:39   #122
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Re: ****ing Animal Rights Protesters

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nodrog
Since we're on the subject of animals, did you ever hear Feels last year? I just got it at the weekend and holy shit.
****ing segway. top.


yeah, i did. it's pretty damn good, isn't it?
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Unread 19 Jan 2006, 13:50   #123
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Re: ****ing Animal Rights Protesters

After further research (by reading the front cover of TCS) it appears that the students in question were a Compsci and a Mathmo, and that the hamster was sent through the post to deliver unspecified and unthought-through revenge on someone that had been harassing him.

Furthermore, whilst the students were punished with £1250 of fines between them, and £100 costs, it's estimated that the RSPCA's costs to prosecute were in the order of £12,000.

That's an enormous amount of money for a donation-based organisation, and, by comparison, Oxfam says £12,000 could fund works to supply 84 villages with clean drinking water, potentially saving hundreds of human lives.
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