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Unread 20 Jun 2003, 19:18   #1
Skrattande
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Same Ip

Ok need clarification.. are we saying that as me and my partner both play this game she or I can not assist each other if time permits.. Obviously as we are in seperate Gal's the time scales tend to make it unlikley normally....We both have PC's sat side by side but as my PC is the gateway it will always show as the same IP......!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If this is the case I think we have gone to far.......
there is one sure way to stop generalised cheating... on a normal round where you pay make everyone pay by a unique named means.. and dont allow more than one account to be paid by the same card/cheque etc.

Just my tuppence worth for what its worth. how many people have cards cheques etc in more than one name.
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Unread 20 Jun 2003, 19:38   #2
JC
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Same IP isnt a reason to be closed. Myself and 2 of my house mates play PA all on the same network. However, you cannot assist each other. If you login to your partners account or vice versa, that is cheating and you will get deleted if/when caught.

Making everyone pa for themselves would be a very bad idea as a lot of people dont have the means to pay. I've payed for several people with my credit card over the rounds, they simply hand me the cash as they dont have a card to pay with.
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Unread 20 Jun 2003, 19:42   #3
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Quote:
Originally posted by JC
However, you cannot assist each other.

So two people with a shared pc (or on the same household networK) can't defend each other, or attack together?

Roomie1: "Hey Joe, can you defend me, I have a bit of incoming that's not quite covered?"

Roomie2: "Yeah Mike, I have fleet to defend you, but I can't because the multi-hunting tools/procedures are so crap they'll think we're cheating!"


Seems a bit daft.
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Unread 20 Jun 2003, 19:50   #4
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cochese
So two people with a shared pc (or on the same household networK) can't defend each other, or attack together?

Roomie1: "Hey Joe, can you defend me, I have a bit of incoming that's not quite covered?"

Roomie2: "Yeah Mike, I have fleet to defend you, but I can't because the multi-hunting tools/procedures are so crap they'll think we're cheating!"


Seems a bit daft.
Sorry i miss understodd what he was saying and didnt make clear what i meant. I meant Bob cant send Sarah's fleet out because he noticed she had incoming because she had forgotten to log out of her account. Ofc Sarah can shout across the room to Bob and ask him to login for himself and send defence. If you couldnt do that i would be screwed.
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Unread 20 Jun 2003, 20:00   #5
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They won't notice anyway. They never notice when planets have an IP from the United Kingdom log in one minute then an American one the next and then after a 3 minute flight a Finnish one logs in. They never notice the number of top players who have escourts from their "housemates" and "brothers" who have the same IP so I reckon your safe. If they close you just plead ignorence/stupidity.
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Unread 20 Jun 2003, 20:52   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cochese
So two people with a shared pc (or on the same household networK) can't defend each other, or attack together?

Roomie1: "Hey Joe, can you defend me, I have a bit of incoming that's not quite covered?"

Roomie2: "Yeah Mike, I have fleet to defend you, but I can't because the multi-hunting tools/procedures are so crap they'll think we're cheating!"


Seems a bit daft.
Doesn't seem daft to me ! I think most of these these roomie, brother stuff is constructed anyhow.
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Unread 20 Jun 2003, 21:03   #7
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I dont think its too much to ask that you and your brother keep your planetary contact to a minimum to reduce the mutliing/account sharing in the game. If two planets with the same ip play relatively independently and just send reasonable def fleets to each other sometimes, I dont imagine you have anything to work about.

All the new IP rule does is make it so that when they are looking at two planets that have interacted, if they have the same IP, they can take it into account.

At least thats how i read it. Its really kind of rediculous to not consider it evidence, Ive thought they should do so for many rounds, and Ive had family members play PA.
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Unread 20 Jun 2003, 22:21   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by JC
Sorry i miss understodd what he was saying and didnt make clear what i meant. I meant Bob cant send Sarah's fleet out because he noticed she had incoming because she had forgotten to log out of her account. Ofc Sarah can shout across the room to Bob and ask him to login for himself and send defence. If you couldnt do that i would be screwed.
I know the portals pretty **** and hence its a chore to visit it but you should check it a little more. Then you would know that its been decided that aiding someone on the same IP has been declared as proof of cheating.

This is perhaps one of the most stupid decisions ever. Its not something that affects those in the big alliances so much, they have countless allies to call upon but once again its something that attacks the smaller players in smaller alliances. They may not be able to get defence from their alliances and instead rely on help from RL friends. Cant personally say i'm suprissed though from what i can see the inner circle that advise spinner seems to be be having the few people on the team who arent big alliance players and who understand what its like to be at the other end of a bashing and without these people putting counter argumnets across the games just moving further towards the big alliances and killing off more of the small players
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Unread 20 Jun 2003, 22:29   #9
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Just dont send podless escorts or farm roids from one planet to the other and you're fine.
Simple really.
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Unread 20 Jun 2003, 22:29   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by wakey
I know the portals pretty **** and hence its a chore to visit it but you should check it a little more. Then you would know that its been decided that aiding someone on the same IP has been declared as proof of cheating.
This thread seems to be full of me saying sorry. I read the announcement shortly after my post. I hadnt realised it was there due to the ****ness of the new announcement system.

Basically the new rule means i will get deleted pretty quickly seeing as my main defence comes from my house m8s because i cba joining a big alliance. Suppose i'll start a thread complaining about it when i get deleted on Monday when the rule is introduced .
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Unread 20 Jun 2003, 22:41   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by wakey
Stuff
The evidence or argument that compels the mind to accept an assertion as true.

A thing or things helpful in forming a conclusion or judgment

Those are the definitions of Proof and Evidence respectively. If you had read the portal, you would have realised that is the latter which is important (the underlined bits should help explain why).
Using the same IP will probably (not being an admin, i can't say, but it's how it seems to me) be viewed no differently than, for example, continually defending and attacking with the same planet, or not building pods, or many other things that are classic-signs of a cheat. The planets (continually?) logging in from the same IP, or always using a proxy, are just two more things that can point to cheating.
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Unread 20 Jun 2003, 22:51   #12
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well all i can say is PAteam may as well give up on getting new players for any other rounds,

how did u get introduced to pa? well i got introduced PA at my mates house and i instanly signed up then and there, me and him used to always be hoping in and out of the pc chair to look at our own planets, i say if i did not have him to play with back then i would have gave up as i did not know about any alliances or any thing like that, he was my ownly def and allie.

i thought as this was a free round to incourage players i would introduce my m8, he only has internet connection as uni, but he is home now, so i showed him PA and he really liked the game so he signed up for an account to play the game as much as he can by coming round my house and other mates, and would he was well up for playing the game in uni! but now what happends???? he comes round to play PA at mine has a few k incoming that he cant handly??? i cant send him any help??? but who else would as he not very active in gal (due to not internetconnection)?

he was intrested in playing PA and liked the sound of round ten,he was going to introduce his uni mates to play as they play a simular game but now says " **** it if u cant offer me def or any of my mates due to a stupid rule". if thats coming from some one who hasnt played the game longer than a week i dont think the futer is bright

there are so many better games out there now than this and most of them are cheaper than this game or even free, i think im gonna never pay for PA again!
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Unread 20 Jun 2003, 22:55   #13
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Would you try reading the second paragraph of the announcement? (the bit after the number-points)
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Unread 20 Jun 2003, 22:59   #14
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i read it but what heppens if ur a 1337 player and ur house mate has like 0.6 mill and u defend him or help him or he helps u, PA will shut u down as a cheat its a common knowleage!

im not taking any risks my mates will just have to play pa else where.... oh wait there they dont want to play any more n/m
lol
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Unread 20 Jun 2003, 23:29   #15
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Guys seriously calm down. You need to have other evidence that youve cheated. And defending each other isnt evidence of cheating. It would need to be an exchange where one of the planets was benefitting a substantially more or there was an obvious coordination between planets and other suspicious things.

Just dont overdo your cooperation(always attacking together etc. And dont be service planet for your family/m8s and you'll be fine.
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Unread 20 Jun 2003, 23:39   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by K-W
Just dont overdo your cooperation(always attacking together etc. And dont be service planet for your family/m8s and you'll be fine.
i dont see why ppl should not be able to play the game as they want just cos ip is the same.
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Unread 20 Jun 2003, 23:58   #17
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Quote:
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i dont see why ppl should not be able to play the game as they want just cos ip is the same.
Welcome to the real world where things arent perfect

It would be nice if no one cheated and everything worked out magically, but atm the slight loss of playing freedom for some of the community probaly doesnt outweght the benefit in stopping more cheating.
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Unread 21 Jun 2003, 00:03   #18
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but atm the slight loss of playing freedom for some of the community probaly doesnt outweght the benefit in stopping more cheating.
i see what ur saying and it is probably stoping cheats but i just like it, next they have a web cam at EVERY ones house making sure its them at there pc when there account is logging to

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Unread 21 Jun 2003, 00:07   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by Teddy_Bear
i dont see why ppl should not be able to play the game as they want just cos ip is the same.
So what your daily occupation is handing out 'the end is nigh' leaflets at a busy intersection right?
Anyway, from what I understand you can still play with housemates, except when they build escort fleet only and launch at 0355 with you*, you can get closed for it


Yes I'm implying 'cheating' here.
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Unread 21 Jun 2003, 00:11   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by Teddy_Bear
i dont see why ppl should not be able to play the game as they want just cos ip is the same.
They didnt say that.
They didnt say that at all.

Interaction between accounts from the same IP is considered as "evidence towards cheating", not "evidence of cheating". It's a subtle difference, but still an important one. It basically means that if you're attacking/defending with your housemate, as normal, and its obvious that neither account is taking advantage of the other, then you're not cheating. This is only evidence once it becomes clear that one account is there to help the other become larger, with no regard for its own score.
If both planets are being treated equally, sharing roids from their joint attacks or defending both ways, there's really no cheating going on.

It's a pet hate of mine to see people blow things way out of proportion just to get attention. Stop it.
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Unread 21 Jun 2003, 00:25   #21
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Quote:
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It's a pet hate of mine to see people blow things way out of proportion just to get attention. Stop it.
well im not blwong any thing out of proportion, if i wanted attention i would go some where else, i cant really call ppl posting on a forum a cry for attention can u??? may be some one running down the street in a orange suit shouting look at me where ppl can acttualy see them and acttualy give them REAL attention,

i think this rule update is very LOSE and could mean any one thats loggin in to pa with the same ip as any one else it will give them the power to shut u down,

of course cheats have to go but surly they dont need to bring ip's in to it. if what u ppl is saying is true about ull only get shut down if u help one planet more than the other then surely u dont need to look at ip to see this happening?
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Unread 21 Jun 2003, 00:31   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by Teddy_Bear
well im not blwong any thing out of proportion, if i wanted attention i would go some where else, i cant really call ppl posting on a forum a cry for attention can u???
Quote:
Originally posted by Teddy_Bear
next they have a web cam at EVERY ones house making sure its them at there pc when there account is logging to

BIG BROTHER IS OUT THERE!!!!!
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Quote:
Originally posted by Teddy_Bear
i think this rule update is very LOSE and could mean any one thats loggin in to pa with the same ip as any one else it will give them the power to shut u down
It's only loose if you dont fully understand the English its written in.
And contrary to popular belief, multi-hunters won't be doing in-depth checks on your planet unless you're breaking the rules blatently enough to be reported. With fourteen-thousand accounts to select from, they only really have time to check top planets and reported ones.
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Unread 21 Jun 2003, 00:43   #23
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i still dont see me crying out for attention? just giveing a "EXTREME" example does not mean im blowing things out of proportion, it means im giving an extreme example!!!

yes it is loose as it can be taken many difrent ways, this topic has shown this,
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Unread 21 Jun 2003, 02:49   #24
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Exclamation

Assuming they're actually going to followup on this, I'm wondering why they didn't do this two years ago when it might have made a difference.

Too little, too late. :/
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Unread 21 Jun 2003, 02:53   #25
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Originally posted by ParraCida
So what your daily occupation is handing out 'the end is nigh' leaflets at a busy intersection right?
Anyway, from what I understand you can still play with housemates, except when they build escort fleet only and launch at 0355 with you*, you can get closed for it


Yes I'm implying 'cheating' here.
Even if its isnt technically cheating, it should be. Having your brother just do whatever you say with his planet is just multiing by proxy. Any planet that plays for the benefit of another planet, and at his expense has just as much negative effect on things as a multi. It ruins the player v player balance.
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Unread 21 Jun 2003, 09:20   #26
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K-W your comment "Any planet that plays for the benefit of another planet, and at his expense has just as much negative effect on things as a multi. It ruins the player v player balance."

Is that not exactly what alliances do??

and I am sorry about the way this thread has gone my point I was trying to make badly obviously was...there are other ways to stop cheating when you have people pay to play....

How many people do you know that have credit cards or cheques with two diff names etc...in todays modern computer age I am sure with a bit of effort it is possible to do some form of cross referencing via card details, address, .

The prob with the ip idea is that more and more of us now use broadband and this in turn means more pc's in a home so this allows for more people to play online at the same time etc etc etc

I have 1meg cable connection with 3 pc's attached.. in round 3 I think it was there was me , my lady and my teenage son all playing PA.. changed a bit now. but thats another story...

so we all worked as a small alliance I suppose you would say.. new rules u cant play possible cheating.

Well what a to do.....
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Unread 21 Jun 2003, 12:09   #27
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People keep saying "Its only evidence towards showing your cheating not cheating itself" BUT it doesnt need to to get innocent people deleted. Playing the game normally without being careful will raise a number of flags whne your being investigated, and even more so IF your on the same IP as someone else. If you arent cheating your just not being careful about your actions so you can look like your cheating. A cheater however on the whole is alot more careful, the good ones wont do anything that will raise too much attention and as such dont get caught. I know people who have been deleted for cheating who claim they havent and whom i know well enough to know they are telling the truth, I also know people who have cheated every round since the game started and have been reported every round yet havent once been caught simply because they dont draw attention to their cheating. They cheat just enough to artificially raise their score but not enough to set off alarm bells at HQ.

All this new ruling means is the cheaters will go on getting away with it while those on shared IP's will start saying "No i cant help" to their friends thus making it easier for the big alliances to kill off all the small players.

Getting rid of the cheats is a good thing but these constant changes to the game that play more and more into hands of the alliances that most of PATeam are members of is killing the game.


As fro the credit cared idea to stop cheats in p2p...ok not mnay people have credit cards and cheques in differnt names but also not many of this community have credit cards or chequebooks due to their age. You have to allow others to be able to pay for these people.
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Unread 21 Jun 2003, 12:10   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by Skrattande
How many people do you know that have credit cards or cheques with two diff names etc...in todays modern computer age I am sure with a bit of effort it is possible to do some form of cross referencing via card details, address, .
So u sugsest, that Multihunters should check, if data what i wrote is correct, when comparing it to my CC data (adress, name, phone #) ??

Well, u seem to forget a small detail, that some ppl got someone else pay for them, and sent their cash to taht one, who used his CC.

If that is ur idea, then i can delete my acc right away, as i live in estonia, and person who payed for me lives in England. Guess, that i´m a multi planet, as my information entered on signup ain´t the same, what has that CC, what activated my account.


If i did misunderstand U, then just ignore this reply


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Unread 21 Jun 2003, 12:55   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by Teddy_Bear
i dont see why ppl should not be able to play the game as they want just cos ip is the same.
Because this is exploited large scale by some naught naughty people.

Maybe last round you remember the case of a guy called UDK who pretended to be a boss of a small business or something (i guess noone believed his story though) - handy when you can order your employees to escort you and launch at insane times .. not to speak of defence and roid donations ..
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Unread 21 Jun 2003, 13:18   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by Skrattande
K-W your comment "Any planet that plays for the benefit of another planet, and at his expense has just as much negative effect on things as a multi. It ruins the player v player balance."

Is that not exactly what alliances do??
Of course not. What kind of crappy alliance has some members play for the benefit of other members. If there is an alliance out there that does so, they are creating a negative effect, though they probably wont be very successful as an alliance.

I think you are missing a key point. In alliances people play for the benefit of ALL, we are discussiong one planet playing for the advantage of another planet.
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Unread 21 Jun 2003, 13:43   #31
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Assuming they're actually going to followup on this, I'm wondering why they didn't do this two years ago when it might have made a difference.

Too little, too late. :/
i agree they could have brought this in years ago, if they say they need it now they needed it then, but they did not need it then so why do they need it now!??!?!
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Unread 21 Jun 2003, 13:49   #32
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Quote:
Originally posted by Teddy_Bear
i agree they could have brought this in years ago, if they say they need it now they needed it then, but they did not need it then so why do they need it now!??!?!
The game is dying so you have to do something, no ? One of the options is to do what the customers want and obviously the majority wanted stricter anti cheating rules for years.
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Unread 21 Jun 2003, 13:56   #33
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tactitus
Assuming they're actually going to followup on this, I'm wondering why they didn't do this two years ago when it might have made a difference.

Too little, too late. :/
Couldn't have said it better myself.
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Unread 21 Jun 2003, 14:35   #34
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Quote:
Originally posted by xtothez
-------



It's only loose if you dont fully understand the English its written in.
And contrary to popular belief, multi-hunters won't be doing in-depth checks on your planet unless you're breaking the rules blatently enough to be reported. With fourteen-thousand accounts to select from, they only really have time to check top planets and reported ones.
I guess you're right, but you could also write a program searching for multis: just check ips, joint attack targets, defence patterns and check for launch times.

Measuring all this and make a kind of a point system you'll have nice indications who would be a multi .. kaos could write this program in no time prolly
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Unread 21 Jun 2003, 15:36   #35
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but...

The problem with doing that is that 2 players legitimately working legitmately in close harmony will look exactly like a multi.

A far better way of using IPs to catch cheaters would be to watch for geographically different IPs accessing single accounts, as mentioned before in this thread. If an account is accessed from europe in the daytime and America every night, something fishy is going on.

Maybe more consideration should be given to reducing the profitability of multi-ing? Getting rid of the whole blockers/amps and scan failure and reducing the cost of scans would remove the temptation to have scan planets. Does anyone really enjoy the whole 'scans failing' thing?
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Unread 21 Jun 2003, 16:05   #36
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Re: but...

Quote:
Originally posted by Andy_r
The problem with doing that is that 2 players legitimately working legitmately in close harmony will look exactly like a multi.

A far better way of using IPs to catch cheaters would be to watch for geographically different IPs accessing single accounts, as mentioned before in this thread. If an account is accessed from europe in the daytime and America every night, something fishy is going on.

Maybe more consideration should be given to reducing the profitability of multi-ing? Getting rid of the whole blockers/amps and scan failure and reducing the cost of scans would remove the temptation to have scan planets. Does anyone really enjoy the whole 'scans failing' thing?
You suggested a way to catch accountsharing, it wouldnt help to catch multis.

I just dont see this huge problem. 2 players working together legitimately is not an issue. If both planets work for thier own benefit but together. Its fine. Just dont have on planet serving the other, and legit or not legit doesnt matter, 2 planets playing for 1 should be stopped.

All this rule does is say that when evaluating a suspiucious situation, ip can be taken into account, which is should be.
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Unread 21 Jun 2003, 23:28   #37
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hicks
They won't notice anyway. They never notice when planets have an IP from the United Kingdom log in one minute then an American one the next and then after a 3 minute flight a Finnish one logs in. They never notice the number of top players who have escourts from their "housemates" and "brothers" who have the same IP so I reckon your safe. If they close you just plead ignorence/stupidity.
i guess you are the one to know:P
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Unread 22 Jun 2003, 06:54   #38
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Quote:
Originally posted by xtothez
Just dont send podless escorts or farm roids from one planet to the other and you're fine.
Simple really.
=========================

I honestly have two brothers and a sister that play pa. We run off a lan at our place for the internet connection so the same ip would be logged.

I have never had one of them escort me anywhere, but since it is not illegal i don't see why they shouldn't escort me in future tense if i ask them.

For example my brother has just lost of a lot of roids and is fairly demoralised yet has a big fleet, so him escorting me would not worry him and work for me.
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Unread 22 Jun 2003, 21:16   #39
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Quote:
Originally posted by K-W
If two planets with the same ip play relatively independently and just send reasonable def fleets to each other sometimes, I dont imagine you have anything to work about.
I agree to this.. The problem is that some "room mates" escort eachother on all attacks and send defence to eachother EVERYTIME there is incoming...
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Unread 22 Jun 2003, 22:24   #40
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hicks
They won't notice anyway. They never notice when planets have an IP from the United Kingdom log in one minute then an American one the next and then after a 3 minute flight a Finnish one logs in. They never notice the number of top players who have escourts from their "housemates" and "brothers" who have the same IP so I reckon your safe. If they close you just plead ignorence/stupidity.
ip's aren't based on locations dumbwit.
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Unread 22 Jun 2003, 22:25   #41
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rayden
ip's aren't based on locations dumbwit.
You can trace an IP address back to the country it came from. Dumbwit.
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Unread 23 Jun 2003, 06:11   #42
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Quote:
Originally posted by -CP-
I agree to this.. The problem is that some "room mates" escort eachother on all attacks and send defence to eachother EVERYTIME there is incoming...
Well, then the new rule probably applies.

Sending podsless escorts on the same IP will probably be dealt wit without a blink.

All other matter will probably be looked on the seriousness. In case of less obvious infringements creators could also take less serious measure. Like removal of a big chunk of roids and fleet depending on the seriousness of the infringements. Losing 50% of your fleet with the warning that if you assist each other again closure will follow might also do the trick.

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Unread 23 Jun 2003, 08:59   #43
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escorting is not illegal though............


so why sould be ppl on lans be punished when others are not?

See there is an equality issue here
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Unread 23 Jun 2003, 10:04   #44
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Quote:
Originally posted by aza1
escorting is not illegal though............


so why sould be ppl on lans be punished when others are not?

See there is an equality issue here
They could also make a rule that would forbid multiple users on same IP. That would be equality for all rule but hurt a lot more people by not being able to play anymore.

Banning multiple users from same IP or restricting their possiblities is common thing on the internet. So expect equality but be happy with a fair compromise.

It would be rather pathetic if people wouldn't play the game when they were unable to have their family, housefriends or coworkers to fly escorts for them. I think it won't matter to much for those playing an honest game. In fact it seems rather nice to have people to compete with in your own house than people that are jsut there for support.

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Unread 23 Jun 2003, 11:47   #45
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rayden
ip's aren't based on locations dumbwit.
no, but it's easy enough to check the location of the assigning ISP via ripe.
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Unread 23 Jun 2003, 12:28   #46
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Quote:
Originally posted by Al_zz
They could also make a rule that would forbid multiple users on same IP. That would be equality for all rule but hurt a lot more people by not being able to play anymore.

Banning multiple users from same IP or restricting their possiblities is common thing on the internet. So expect equality but be happy with a fair compromise.

It would be rather pathetic if people wouldn't play the game when they were unable to have their family, housefriends or coworkers to fly escorts for them. I think it won't matter to much for those playing an honest game. In fact it seems rather nice to have people to compete with in your own house than people that are jsut there for support.

hAl
Yeah i actually agree with what u say above, i am just being the devils advocate.
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Unread 23 Jun 2003, 14:59   #47
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Originally posted by inf
no, but it's easy enough to check the location of the assigning ISP via ripe.
countries got their own ip ranges, and those ips are then handed out in bulks to the different isps.

so yes, ips (as far as beeing on the internet goes),is countrydependant.
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Unread 24 Jun 2003, 12:48   #48
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Re: Re: but...

Quote:
Originally posted by K-W
You suggested a way to catch accountsharing, it wouldnt help to catch multis.
Yes, the point I was making is that IP is a good way to catch accountsharers and a bad way to catch multis.
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Unread 24 Jun 2003, 14:01   #49
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Re: Re: Re: but...

Quote:
Originally posted by Andy_r
Yes, the point I was making is that IP is a good way to catch accountsharers and a bad way to catch multis.
Hmmm, well you didnt really make that point. Please explain?
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Unread 25 Jun 2003, 11:42   #50
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ok...

The problem with looking at IPs that is that 2 players legitimately working legitmately in close harmony will look exactly like a multi.

A far better way of using IPs to catch cheaters would be to watch for geographically different IPs accessing single accounts, as mentioned before in this thread. If an account is accessed from europe in the daytime and America every night, something fishy is going on.

:P
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