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Unread 30 Apr 2003, 18:50   #1
Le Mauvais Moine
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Who is 30:9:1 ?

and why is he closed ?
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Unread 30 Apr 2003, 19:58   #2
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Because he's an Eclipse scummer who has been reported by lots and lots of people since day 1.

It looks like the creators now feel there is enough evidence to prove he has broken rules.
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Unread 30 Apr 2003, 20:08   #3
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His nick is UDK.

He and his galaxy signed up a private farm gal at 45:1, as well as several other random multi accounts all over the universe. UDK has used these from day 1 for attack escorts, farms and multi def. I have spent far too many hours this round collecting blatent evidence on him that only a total ****ing idiot would leave, and if the staff in charge here were competant in any way he would have been closed on week 1 due to his lack of subtlety (lo sending random planets to defend yourself with 2-3 minutes between launching, then recalling them in the same way).

I'm going to stop writing now, I could go on for hours but this little **** has cost far too much of my time already.
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Unread 30 Apr 2003, 20:30   #4
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Most obvious multi I have ever seen.

No idea why it took like 7 weeks to get him closed ffs
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Unread 30 Apr 2003, 20:44   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by Toop
Most obvious multi I have ever seen.

No idea why it took like 7 weeks to get him closed ffs
Creators are always late.......
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Unread 30 Apr 2003, 20:47   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by Toop
Most obvious multi I have ever seen.

1 of 50.. 100 ???

there are even more with enough evidences. but the creators s*ck at those investigations. the samle lame answers like: " we have an eye on hom/them" , "We track them atm but at the moment there isn't enough evidence on its own", bla bla bla.

its gettin worser every round.

dear creators... get someone with enough motivation, knowledge of the game, activity and balls into ur team to take care on these issues.

these cheaters destroyed the fun of some peeps over the last weeks. and i cant imagine that those peeps will get the fun back now seeing him closed.

2 cents, blabla, disapointed, humz
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Unread 1 May 2003, 08:57   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by Scouse

It looks like the creators now feel there is enough evidence to prove he has broken rules.

how many mails did they need before they do something?
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Unread 1 May 2003, 09:54   #8
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Several blatant cheats have been closed and reopened this round.

Several had same ip, not even a proxy, but seems that small fleet assisting planets are ok.

That and farms are horrendous for the game and limits playability for the rest of the universe. But when creators back track on some of the feeble excuses I have heard a firmer stance needs to be taken against cheats and cheating.

Lets hope creators listena nd do something to build it into game mechanics, but I doubt they will
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Unread 1 May 2003, 12:49   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rumad
Several blatant cheats have been closed and reopened this round.

Several had same ip, not even a proxy, but seems that small fleet assisting planets are ok.

That and farms are horrendous for the game and limits playability for the rest of the universe. But when creators back track on some of the feeble excuses I have heard a firmer stance needs to be taken against cheats and cheating.

Lets hope creators listena nd do something to build it into game mechanics, but I doubt they will
all true,i agree with you
apart from one thing they might do sumthing,just in about 7 weeks time when pa only has 100 players left.
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Unread 1 May 2003, 14:23   #10
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I should be fairly easy to make a small program that identifies possible cheats from about t72 onwards. Tghings like this should be easy to spot by automated scripts:
Pods only attack fleets and without kill fleet
Support fleets that have no pods in them
Battleticks a zik planets where no roids are taken and defender loses only stealing ships
Same IP used by several planets

You could then easily pick out the 10 higest ranked of those suspicious planets every day and investigate them and punish or (temporarily) close them.

I do not see any reason to wait for reports from othet players who have limited resources to identify cheaters. To have any decent kind of regulation there has to be proactive action by creators and they should really have closed all farm gals (which were very very easy to spot) in this round within a week and the planets using them as well.

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Unread 1 May 2003, 14:44   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by hAl
...
Creators are too busy setting up inventive features like 'engineers' rather than close down on rampant cheating that's been plaguing the game for rounds.
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Unread 1 May 2003, 16:01   #12
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Quote:
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Creators are always late.......
It can be done within about 1 hour.
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Unread 1 May 2003, 16:05   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by rnd|One
Creators are too busy setting up inventive features like 'engineers' rather than close down on rampant cheating that's been plaguing the game for rounds.
I look forward to my engineers prioritising my PDS production while my planet is being hit by 5 accounts owned by the same player. No really, it'll be fun.
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Unread 1 May 2003, 16:49   #14
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Within that time, from evidence presented till closing, he prolly has gathered some 5k roids or so - ruining the round for how many people ?

And has he been booted from Eclipse, too ? And if so, how long did *that* last ? From what i can recall he was well active in the alliance wars versus vvomm, nar and we.
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Unread 1 May 2003, 17:12   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rumad

Several had same ip, not even a proxy
You cant close planets simply because they have the same IP address loging into them. I live with 'Newt' who also plays PA, if you went by that rule we would both be deleted for cheating when neither of us have logged into the others account.

If i happen to walk into University one day and login from 1 of the PCs in the PC lab i will end up having the same IP address as atleast 5 PA players that i know of and probably more.

However, i do agree that planets arent closed with any kind of efficiecy because the 1 planet i reported this round for blatant account swapping is still open.
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Unread 1 May 2003, 17:25   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by Le Mauvais Moine
Within that time from evidence presented till closing he prolly has gathered some 5k roids or so ruining the round of how many people ?

And has he been booted from Eclipse, too ? And if so, how long did *that* last ? From what i can recall he was well active in the alliance wars versus vvomm, nar and we.
I dont know about being booted, but he hasnt been on eclipse irc since he was closed.
And for the record, he cost me around 5mil pts of ships and 2.5k roids in between me first reporting him and him being closed.
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Unread 1 May 2003, 17:30   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by JC
You cant close planets simply because they have the same IP address loging into them...
Those situations are usually clear be the fact that both parties have clearly separate planets (i.e. - they attack their own targets, defend each other both ways as well as people in their alliance, and are likely to not be too far apart in score).
However, when I went to Prince he told me UDK was using the same IP as a planet in 45:1. This planet did nothing but defend UDK, and was never online except to send and recall def. Absolutely nothing else, along with every other planet in that gal. UDK was top 10, and his planet was 6 times bigger than 45:1 itself. It would take a prize idiot to think there was something even possibly legal going on there.
Why he wasnt closed on the spot is a mystery of Rumad-proportions.
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Unread 1 May 2003, 17:50   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by xtothez
Those situations are usually clear be the fact that both parties have clearly separate planets (i.e. - they attack their own targets, defend each other both ways as well as people in their alliance, and are likely to not be too far apart in score).
However, when I went to Prince he told me UDK was using the same IP as a planet in 45:1. This planet did nothing but defend UDK, and was never online except to send and recall def. Absolutely nothing else, along with every other planet in that gal. UDK was top 10, and his planet was 6 times bigger than 45:1 itself. It would take a prize idiot to think there was something even possibly legal going on there.
Why he wasnt closed on the spot is a mystery of Rumad-proportions.
It can't be rocket science to code a program to correlate

1) ips of defending planets with the ip of the planet being defended(+ launch times)

2) the ips of the attackers to one planet (+launch times)

3) check for pods in attack fleets

4) Check for roid/amp ratios, see who is news scanning targets and match ips of attacking planet and news scanning planet.

5) Farming check: ip of attackers and ip of defender.

when you assign a number to these types of correlation, latest after one week you see a pattern. I guess you don't do a mistake once you close every day the top 10 planets in such a type of rankings. Meaning closing the top 10 "suspected" support planets and the top 10 "suspected" supported planets.

Such type of functionality maybe with the planet rankings publicly on display would have a much bigger impact on the game than "engineers".
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Unread 1 May 2003, 19:09   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by JC
You cant close planets simply because they have the same IP address loging into them. I live with 'Newt' who also plays PA, if you went by that rule we would both be deleted for cheating when neither of us have logged into the others account.

If i happen to walk into University one day and login from 1 of the PCs in the PC lab i will end up having the same IP address as atleast 5 PA players that i know of and probably more.

However, i do agree that planets arent closed with any kind of efficiecy because the 1 planet i reported this round for blatant account swapping is still open.
I agree, but at the time of teh round my gal defected to nar we were hit by lot s of 300-500k planets all with fight flak flaking a main attacker. Os that the acts of a house mate or a blatant multi.

I have no problem with ppl playing the game or even assisting on attacks. But a planet with 11 or 12 res and cons, but manages superfast fi with around 4k flak is horrendous. The account is clearly a multi account and even when reported no action is taken.

Now how many 500k players do you know that will launch at 4am - especially when you know the player is in a euro time zone?

How many players do you know will play a game and launch at that time and STILL only has a 500k score?

Sometimes its very blatant.

Clearly house mates are house mates, but they can be house mates without assiting like that.
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Unread 1 May 2003, 19:11   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by xtothez

Why he wasnt closed on the spot is a mystery of Rumad-proportions.
we talking ego or stature ;-)

made me chucke your post btw :-)
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Unread 1 May 2003, 19:37   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rumad
we talking ego or stature ;-)

made me chucke your post btw :-)

I think it's a compliment
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Unread 2 May 2003, 00:28   #22
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Unread 2 May 2003, 04:03   #23
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if the creators were to clsoe all the multi accounts there would be less than 1k ppl playing this game...

sad but true...
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Unread 2 May 2003, 10:32   #24
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The problem with trying to close cheaters is getting enough evidence to entitle you do do so. So much of the possible evidence is circumstantial and while in previous rounds when the round was free this would be enough to close the account when someones paid you really need to be totally sure your correct. Even some of the aspects that xtothez used to highlight cheating arent 100% accurate. Most people withs hared IP's will know each other. If you have a housemate who also plays and your under attack they are likly to be your first port of call for help and vise verse so thats no indicator of cheating, you are also likly to join attacks together, be in the same alliance so aid the same planets and such like. This doesnt mean they are cheating and hence cant be closed without better evidence

Its one of the many problems being p2p brings to the game and is one which would be extreamly hard to fix without taking a Zero Tolerence approach which really wouldnt be good. With such an approach any of us could be banned, as JC said all it takes is for people to login at uni or other shared connection and then for one of player from there to be reported and youd be deleted also.
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Unread 2 May 2003, 11:09   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by wakey

Its one of the many problems being p2p brings to the game and is one which would be extreamly hard to fix without taking a Zero Tolerence approach which really wouldnt be good.
solution = stop p2p / bring back the free round !
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Unread 2 May 2003, 11:19   #26
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Unread 2 May 2003, 11:30   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by wakey
The problem with trying to close cheaters is getting enough evidence to entitle you do do so. So much of the possible evidence is circumstantial and while in previous rounds when the round was free this would be enough to close the account when someones paid you really need to be totally sure your correct. Even some of the aspects that xtothez used to highlight cheating arent 100% accurate. Most people withs hared IP's will know each other. If you have a housemate who also plays and your under attack they are likly to be your first port of call for help and vise verse so thats no indicator of cheating, you are also likly to join attacks together, be in the same alliance so aid the same planets and such like. This doesnt mean they are cheating and hence cant be closed without better evidence

Its one of the many problems being p2p brings to the game and is one which would be extreamly hard to fix without taking a Zero Tolerence approach which really wouldnt be good. With such an approach any of us could be banned, as JC said all it takes is for people to login at uni or other shared connection and then for one of player from there to be reported and youd be deleted also.
Seeing how i work in a collage with 14000 students guess i can have lots of 'students' support my attacks. They won't be very active though, just log in to start r/c, to defend me or to support my attacks. They will also be sharing same comp so 1 has to log in then log off, then next log in etc.
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Unread 2 May 2003, 11:39   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by Zither
Seeing how i work in a collage with 14000 students guess i can have lots of 'students' support my attacks. They won't be very active though, just log in to start r/c, to defend me or to support my attacks. They will also be sharing same comp so 1 has to log in then log off, then next log in etc.
I think this is teh crux - its easy to say you are sharing pc's and to be in the same or different alliances. However, a lot of these small planets are blatnatly not players. They have either used there flat mate/house mate/uni friend as cover and they are account sharing or they are blatant multi's.

You cna tell if a player is a real player. Generally res and cons are done, defence is given and received to alliance mates / friends - they have a balanced fleet. If you look at the proportion of lowbie planets with jsut flak as there fleets on around 80-90 roids and generally just supporting 1 maybe 2 planets at a push you know exactly who is the multi/cheat.

Volume f evidence is fine in marginal situations - when its blatant and they still do nothing thats when it gets pathetic.
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Unread 2 May 2003, 13:24   #29
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It isn't illegal, nor proof in any way, to recieve defense from something that looks like a multi.

With the amount of retired PA-players, some of those "multi-planets" are legit planets (I know of 1 atleast). Nor can you be closed if a gal.mate. has a scanplanet which he sometimes use to help out the gal.

Either way; if you can actually prove that a planet is a multi, and not a retired PA-player, you other other problems as well..IMO The devil is in the details in these cases; as opposed to criminal law, it isn't illegal to not report cheating, 'knowledge of cheating' isn't grounds for closure in this game. So if somebody claims they didn't do it; you cannot go claim they should have known and close them anyways...Its pretty easy to show *somebody* is cheating, but its damn hard to really nail down who in most cases. IMO what they need to do in these cases, is really fine-read the login-logout times, as these are most usually the single most important clue something is being done on the same machine... But i've got a slight feeling PA-Team doesn't have the tools to do this efficiently yet, nor the time, nor the competance.
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Unread 2 May 2003, 14:22   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by hyfe
It isn't illegal, nor proof in any way, to recieve defense from something that looks like a multi.

With the amount of retired PA-players, some of those "multi-planets" are legit planets (I know of 1 atleast). Nor can you be closed if a gal.mate. has a scanplanet which he sometimes use to help out the gal.
I don't understand how a multi planet can be legit ? Care to explain.

I think if a gal mate has a scan planet, he helps you out with newsie or other scan, but you don't know about it you can't be closed for it. BUT: When you regularly see that the following pattern:
1) Planet A attacks a certain target T , the ip I of planet A is logged.
2) Planet B news scans the target T, the ip is logged it's the same ip I as in one.

As I have said above you have a number of rules like this.

When you assign numbers (indicators) to all these types of occurences of rules, meaning you regularly see a the same planet(s) supporting one planet with scans, flak or roids, the ips are mostly identical and the login times suggest its the same person - you just close them.

You don't have to gather evidence for days and days and days but you write a program. The top 10 people in these mulit-indicator rankings will be closed each day or so. Maybe give them one or to days to explain the data.

If you don't have a meanse to actually detect and delete players automatically and try to do it on a case by case basis, HOW WITH 3K PLAYERS WILL YOU EVER GET RID OF THEM ?
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Unread 2 May 2003, 14:34   #31
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And another idea in this context, hyfe: If the creators lack the competence to do code such a mulit hunting program they should hire killmark (or any othe guy who is a good programmer and *know* how the game is played by hardcore players) to code it for them - and that is a serious suggestion and no flame.

You may say he is alliancewise biased, but if you make the code public there's no way to say somebody cheated on the anti cheating program.
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Unread 2 May 2003, 16:22   #32
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Quote:
Originally posted by Le Mauvais Moine
And another idea in this context, hyfe: If the creators lack the competence to do code such a mulit hunting program they should hire killmark (or any othe guy who is a good programmer and *know* how the game is played by hardcore players) to code it for them - and that is a serious suggestion and no flame.
Killmark didn't code Tempest.
Quote:
You may say he is alliancewise biased, but if you make the code public there's no way to say somebody cheated on the anti cheating program.
Make the code public and everyone instantly knows what the trigger levels for a 'multi flag' are. Baaaaad idea.
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Unread 2 May 2003, 16:25   #33
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Quote:
Originally posted by Le Mauvais Moine
I don't understand how a multi planet can be legit ? Care to explain.
He's talking about planets which are played by people solely as scan/defense planets. The type of planets that could easily be mistaken for a multi planet, but which in reality aren't.
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Unread 2 May 2003, 16:29   #34
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Killmark didn't code Tempest.
Tempest?
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Unread 2 May 2003, 16:30   #35
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Unread 2 May 2003, 16:36   #36
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The infamous Bot from Hell (unless my memory has failed me).
Ah yes, also known as 'The Federation' and others. He did code it afaik, together with others.

Best bot ever is still the Jedi bot Jonni wrote for Section r3.
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Unread 2 May 2003, 17:00   #37
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Quote:
Originally posted by Le Mauvais Moine
I don't understand how a multi planet can be legit ? Care to explain.

I think if a gal mate has a scan planet, he helps you out with newsie or other scan, but you don't know about it you can't be closed for it. BUT: When you regularly see that the following pattern:
1) Planet A attacks a certain target T , the ip I of planet A is logged.
2) Planet B news scans the target T, the ip is logged it's the same ip I as in one.

As I have said above you have a number of rules like this.

When you assign numbers (indicators) to all these types of occurences of rules, meaning you regularly see a the same planet(s) supporting one planet with scans, flak or roids, the ips are mostly identical and the login times suggest its the same person - you just close them.

You don't have to gather evidence for days and days and days but you write a program. The top 10 people in these mulit-indicator rankings will be closed each day or so. Maybe give them one or to days to explain the data.

If you don't have a meanse to actually detect and delete players automatically and try to do it on a case by case basis, HOW WITH 3K PLAYERS WILL YOU EVER GET RID OF THEM ?
Automatic triggers would catch more inncocent players thna the cheaters. Families would find all their accounst deleted for helping family members, housemates would find all their accounts deleted for helping their fellow residents in anyway and those at uni whos personal PC's are linked to the Uni's networks would also be in danager.

In fact EVERY one of us here would have found ourselves in danger of deletion in the past under these circumstances. Very few people have their own private IP that only themselves use and most people will always be willing to aid RL friends and family with defence, scans, attacks often at the same time as the other person or extreamly close to it and these are the people who would get flagged up.

The only cheaters who would find themselves caught up would be the dumb ones and not the ones who have spent rounds perfecting their cheating technique. These people will switch IP, leave time between launches and logins and would hence fail to trigger any alarms.

So such systems would just see the ratio of cheaters to normal players raise considerable and would make it a much greater problem
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Unread 2 May 2003, 17:10   #38
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Is UDK an Eclipse member?

More importantly will he be kicked?

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Unread 2 May 2003, 17:55   #39
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Quote:
Originally posted by wakey
Automatic triggers would catch more inncocent players thna the cheaters. Families would find all their accounst deleted for helping family members, housemates would find all their accounts deleted for helping their fellow residents in anyway and those at uni whos personal PC's are linked to the Uni's networks would also be in danager.

In fact EVERY one of us here would have found ourselves in danger of deletion in the past under these circumstances. Very few people have their own private IP that only themselves use and most people will always be willing to aid RL friends and family with defence, scans, attacks often at the same time as the other person or extreamly close to it and these are the people who would get flagged up.

The only cheaters who would find themselves caught up would be the dumb ones and not the ones who have spent rounds perfecting their cheating technique. These people will switch IP, leave time between launches and logins and would hence fail to trigger any alarms.

So such systems would just see the ratio of cheaters to normal players raise considerable and would make it a much greater problem
Well, house mates and familiy members can be filtered out easily as you give your address data when you sign up. I know there'll be many people claiming then they have 5 brothers and 6 sisters. But if you statistically analyse all the information and asign a number as a measure for multi probability, this analysis getting getting more and more sophisticated very round, you will finally end up with a system which will detect a fair amount of cheaters.

And just by knowing that such a system is in place will discourage even more to start it.
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Unread 2 May 2003, 18:00   #40
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Quote:
Originally posted by Teh_Necro
Is UDK an Eclipse member?

More importantly will he be kicked?

-Necro
mhhh think so?!
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Unread 2 May 2003, 18:12   #41
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I think XtotheZ is just sore because he lost roids to 30:9. He's insinuating that he was hit by 300 bot planets, which is far from the truth.

I dont know all the details, but i was told that several planets had the same ip as udks planet did.

I do know this: in different places where I've worked ALL outside traffic saw the same firewall address. People who share network/dsl/cable connections will all have the same ip to the outside world. I'm thinking about studenthousing, neighbours who share network connection costs, and so on. If all planets on which simular ips are found, are closed, a reasonable percentage of all planets can be closed.

If this style of evidence is reason to close udk, why weren't other planets with a lot more dodgy looking activity closed?
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Unread 2 May 2003, 18:15   #42
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PS. XtotheZ and his fellow ely officer were sleeping most times when they were hit. XtotheZ woke up and sent his fleet out a couple ticks before landing, the other officer didnt wake up :>
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Unread 2 May 2003, 18:22   #43
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Quote:
Originally posted by Le Mauvais Moine
Well, house mates and familiy members can be filtered out easily as you give your address data when you sign up. I know there'll be many people claiming then they have 5 brothers and 6 sisters. But if you statistically analyse all the information and asign a number as a measure for multi probability, this analysis getting getting more and more sophisticated very round, you will finally end up with a system which will detect a fair amount of cheaters.

And just by knowing that such a system is in place will discourage even more to start it.
Doesnt solve the uni problem (or for that matter access from school, work ect all which would share a ip) and tbh doesnt really sort any problem. You would basically be saying to everyone "your allowed x number of planets each becuase statistically thats how many people from every household we expect to have. " while those housholds that fall over the limit would either be forced to stop some people playing or run the risk of being deleted. A computer just cant handle the task as its something only a human can currently do

And as ive already pointed out any half decent cheater is a liittle bit smarter than to allow their activity to be connected as easierly as an IP address. Youd catch the exteeamly stupid cheaters who arent really a problem anyway and the inncocent and leave the serrious cheaters roaming free.

Yes cheating is and always has been a problem in PA and its remove would help us all BUT you cant do this at the expense of a great number of legitimate players that such a system would cause
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Unread 2 May 2003, 18:33   #44
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Quote:
Originally posted by Teh_Necro
Is UDK an Eclipse member?

More importantly will he be kicked?

-Necro

just got informed about it. gonna look into it. and ofc hell lose his membership if he cheated (wouldnt be the first member we kicked for cheating iirc).
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Unread 2 May 2003, 18:37   #45
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Quote:
Originally posted by Toop
Most obvious multi I have ever seen.

No idea why it took like 7 weeks to get him closed ffs
Generally it helps if you send us this evidence... It makes it easier to sort.
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Unread 2 May 2003, 18:40   #46
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Quote:
Originally posted by bear
I think XtotheZ is just sore because he lost roids to 30:9. He's insinuating that he was hit by 300 bot planets, which is far from the truth.

I dont know all the details, but i was told that several planets had the same ip as udks planet did.

I do know this: in different places where I've worked ALL outside traffic saw the same firewall address. People who share network/dsl/cable connections will all have the same ip to the outside world. I'm thinking about studenthousing, neighbours who share network connection costs, and so on. If all planets on which simular ips are found, are closed, a reasonable percentage of all planets can be closed.

If this style of evidence is reason to close udk, why weren't other planets with a lot more dodgy looking activity closed?

hmmm.. I don't think he was closed just because of shared ip's.

And I believe XtotheZ is sore because he lost roids to a multi, wich is the truth. Unfortunately there is no way to erase a multi's impact on the game, and return those 5964 roids and the lost ships to their rightfull owners .
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Unread 2 May 2003, 18:46   #47
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Note to readers: bear is 30:9

Quote:
Originally posted by bear
I think XtotheZ is just sore because he lost roids to 30:9. He's insinuating that he was hit by 300 bot planets, which is far from the truth.
No, I wasnt attacked by multi planets. However we had multiple attacks on UDK that were stopped by multi def. Not to mention of course that much of UDK's score would be directly funded by roids gained early in the round when he was escorted by these planets, and roids farmed from 45:1.

Quote:
Originally posted by bear
I dont know all the details, but i was told that several planets had the same ip as udks planet did ..... If this style of evidence is reason to close udk, why weren't other planets with a lot more dodgy looking activity closed?
Mainly because there were very few planets more dodgy than UDK. He has been reported so many times since the start of the round I'm surprised he isnt seeking some sort of Killmark-type reputation, as thats the only thing he could possibly gain from such blatent cheating.

Quote:
Originally posted by bear
PS. XtotheZ and his fellow ely officer were sleeping most times when they were hit. XtotheZ woke up and sent his fleet out a couple ticks before landing, the other officer didnt wake up :>
The other Ely officer was on vaction for the weekend, hence not being able to run ships and losing 70% of his fleet.
By that point I had pretty much surrendered to the idea of being beaten by a cheat. I stopped attacking, as both nights previously I had sent attacks UDK had waited and scanned me until I launched fleet and went offline to take any roids I had capped. The day UDK first landed on me was the day I effectively quit PA. The evidence I had supplied to Prince and Kloopy in PM was sufficient to close him. He wasnt closed, I saw no reason to continue playing a game where I could be taken down by someone with a little more $$$ to spend on accounts. I stopped requesting Ely def, and let UDK to my roids on the thinking that if he ever was closed Eclipse would lose those roids.

On a related note, MobRulz (30:9) reporting my planet for account sharing with no evidence was the 2nd lamest thing I've seen this round. After mister UDK of course.
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Unread 2 May 2003, 18:47   #48
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Quote:
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Generally it helps if you send us this evidence... It makes it easier to sort.
PLEASE TELL ME YOU ARE NOT THAT DENSE
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Unread 2 May 2003, 18:53   #49
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Quote:
Originally posted by Toop
And I believe XtotheZ is sore because he lost roids to a multi
Exactly.

Although not just a multi, a multi that was reported multiple times by many people for weeks before he even attacked me, while absolutely nothing was done.
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Unread 2 May 2003, 18:53   #50
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Quote:
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...I'm surprised he isnt seeking some sort of Killmark-type reputation, ...
hmm.. that reminds me... what alliance is killmark this round?
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