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2 Apr 2003, 21:46
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#1
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Miles Teg
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Dom City
Posts: 5,192
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Just a small comment on today's alliances and wars.
This statement applies to most threads tho you cannot place it in any, thus I will make a special thread for it.
Alliances nowadays only go into a fight if they know they will win. You only start a war if you know you will.
Thought I should share and I am eager to see the feedback on it.
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Audentes Fortuna Iuvat
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2 Apr 2003, 21:49
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#2
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peon
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 163
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actually i know only few ppl who would start a war where they wouldn't be sure that they would win ...
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Elysium / patools
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2 Apr 2003, 21:49
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#3
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wasted
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Under the floorboards
Posts: 1,240
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There's nothing 'new' about Sun-Tzu.
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“They were totally confused,” said the birdman, whose flying suit gives him a passing resemblance to Buzz Lightyear in Toy Story. “The authorities said that I was an unregistered aircraft and to fly, you need a licence. I told them, ‘No. To fly, you need wings’.”
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2 Apr 2003, 22:03
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#4
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Grand Poobah
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 33
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All alliances start wars because they think they can win. If you start a war you dont believe you can win thats pure stupidity.
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2 Apr 2003, 22:06
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#5
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180º
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 397
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yes there i learnt a new thingy. But then you also have to say
"attack is the best defence"
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2 Apr 2003, 22:10
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#6
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Miles Teg
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Dom City
Posts: 5,192
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Statement two.
This however is never an excuse for cowardism.
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Audentes Fortuna Iuvat
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2 Apr 2003, 23:00
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#7
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Deep in the forest
Posts: 69
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The original statement in itself is far too general.
There are numerous examples of alliances going to war when they were far from certain they would win. First of all in every round since R4 at least blocks have gone to war even when they have been quite sure to lose (from R5 nocex to R9 VOM).
2ndly in midround alliances have gone to war even when their victory has not been at all certain (like Ely etc joining Fury against Tits&co last round, I don't think they thought they'd be sure to win it).
It's more like, alliances start war only if they think they will win, or if they think they have no other choice, or they are stupid, or they want to have fun even if they lose, or there is some other factor.
Just because NAR this round didn't break the NAP with WEET (which would have been a smart thing to do around tick 100 when it was clear VOM would be beaten and NARWEET would end pretty soon), and WEET went to war against them when they thought it's safe, it doesn't mean you can draw a gross generalization out of it. Of course there's tendency to avoid war you're likely to lose, but it's not a general rule like that.
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Long sigs are cancer of PA community
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2 Apr 2003, 23:17
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#8
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wasted
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Under the floorboards
Posts: 1,240
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No alliances starts a war by choice if they believe they will lose. They can have war forced upon them, but no sensible alliance will begin a war without a reasonable belief that they will win.
The Ely/WP cooperation with Fury in r8 was simply because they knew that Titans/LDK would gain complete victory if the universe did not stop them. So Ely/WP simply chose to fight a war while there was still a chance to win it, rather than waiting until that chance disappeared completely. They were not sure to win, but they were sure to lose if they didn't fight.
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“They were totally confused,” said the birdman, whose flying suit gives him a passing resemblance to Buzz Lightyear in Toy Story. “The authorities said that I was an unregistered aircraft and to fly, you need a licence. I told them, ‘No. To fly, you need wings’.”
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2 Apr 2003, 23:33
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#9
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Lieutenant-Colonel
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: #hr
Posts: 84
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I studied at a different school then...
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<Dingo> WP will NEVER attack us
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2 Apr 2003, 23:33
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#10
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Lemming
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 25
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I've started a fight we knew we couldn't win...just to throw something in to contradict. I don't like absolutes.
Lui
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Cool, Cuddly and Beautiful - hirr!
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2 Apr 2003, 23:47
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#11
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p a r r a c i d a
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: #titans
Posts: 511
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this has to be the most pointless thread of the round so far, bar necros one
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Cicada || No Warning, No Mercy, No Ambiguity || [Titans] [F.E.A.R]
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2 Apr 2003, 23:53
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#12
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power of evil
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: forever free
Posts: 231
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cicada
this has to be the most pointless thread of the round so far, bar necros one
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Pretty much seems that way, but I bet Theamion has more Sun-Tzu to pull out. Too bad most of it is inapplicable to a web-based game 
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Baptized in Fire. Returned to Honor. Turned to Evil.
Zen of Evil
Ω
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2 Apr 2003, 23:58
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#13
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Banned
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Hengelo, The netherlands
Posts: 383
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Quote:
Originally posted by kaos
actually i know only few ppl who would start a war where they wouldn't be sure that they would win ...
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pld our R7 gal. 
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3 Apr 2003, 00:07
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#14
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Miles Teg
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Dom City
Posts: 5,192
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Quote:
Originally posted by AlbinoSquirrel
Pretty much seems that way, but I bet Theamion has more Sun-Tzu to pull out. Too bad most of it is inapplicable to a web-based game
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The fact is that if everyone knows this, while are we still shouting at eachother about 'stagnation, bullying, outnumbering, backstabbing and so forth' ?
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Audentes Fortuna Iuvat
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3 Apr 2003, 02:11
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#15
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I love Kwon Boa
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Connecticut, USA
Posts: 221
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Quote:
Originally posted by Knight Theamion
The fact is that if everyone knows this, while are we still shouting at eachother about 'stagnation, bullying, outnumbering, backstabbing and so forth' ?
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I could apply Lexa Doig quotes to PA but that doesn't mean it's applicable 
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I love Kwon Boa
[19:36:04] <Vaporizer> he is re-assuring isn't he...you can always think 'at least you're not intguru'
[15:02:56] <Newt|revising> ive got u in my siggy InTGuRu!!!!!!!
[15:03:00] <Newt|revising> u shud return the favour
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3 Apr 2003, 02:48
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#16
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4ever a Snuggly Bunny
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Ålesund/Norway
Posts: 168
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Quote:
Originally posted by Knight Theamion
The fact is that if everyone knows this, while are we still shouting at eachother about 'stagnation, bullying, outnumbering, backstabbing and so forth' ?
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chicken and code of honour - one just as self-destructing (pa in general) as the other
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Aka binge
R1: 27:??
R3: 111:17
R4: 2:15 Elysium
R5: 1:5 Elysium
R6: 24:16 Elysium
R8: 28:?? Adelante
Retired & vanished
Last edited by Norseman; 3 Apr 2003 at 02:54.
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3 Apr 2003, 03:05
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#17
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7H4 B4R73ND3R
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: University of South Florida
Posts: 206
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Do you fight the fights you can win or do you fight the fights that need fighting?
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...during this process you may even begin to question yourselves, but dont worry for this is healthy. For what are we if we are not what we believe.
The Last Ride of Stephen Whatley and His Immortals
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3 Apr 2003, 03:26
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#18
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Imposter?
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: UK / Canada
Posts: 717
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Re: Just a small comment on today's alliances and wars.
Quote:
Originally posted by Knight Theamion
This statement applies to most threads tho you cannot place it in any, thus I will make a special thread for it.
Alliances nowadays only go into a fight if they know they will win. You only start a war if you know you will.
Thought I should share and I am eager to see the feedback on it.
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As a few have said anyone who starts a war they know they can't win is stupid, however there is much to be said for alliances who don't do anything because altho they know they can win they also not that its is possible that they can lose as well.
Then you have the alliances that want to try and stay buddy buddy with everyone, but that is a totally different issue...
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Æ - from the ashes of good intentions come forth lasting friendships... the Æternals.
R2: XXV
R3: Æternals
R4: Fx9/Wolfpack
R5: Legion
R6: Legion BC
R7: Legion BC
R8: RaH BC
R9: RaH HC
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3 Apr 2003, 04:56
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#19
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Bored
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: A Persistant Universe
Posts: 1,583
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Its quite simple. An alliance starts a war if they judge the benefits of that war outweighing the risks.
A war you are likely to lose is extremely high risk, therefore the only time you would start it is if the benefits would be huge, ie survival.
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Germania
Fury
Mercury & Solace
Conspiracy Theory, Wrath, 1up, ICD, Eclipse
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3 Apr 2003, 06:14
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#20
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Giant Squid Wrestler
Join Date: May 2001
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 190
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well put simply...
Iliad > Oly
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[F.E.A.R.]
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3 Apr 2003, 08:26
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#21
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SHW
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: @home
Posts: 228
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Quote:
Originally posted by K-W
Its quite simple. An alliance starts a war if they judge the benefits of that war outweighing the risks.
A war you are likely to lose is extremely high risk, therefore the only time you would start it is if the benefits would be huge, ie survival.
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Very well said
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Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.
SHW, ReBorn, Wolfpack, NoS, Eclipse, Ascendancy
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3 Apr 2003, 08:37
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#22
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home wrecker
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: The other side of the galaxy ;)
Posts: 1,041
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bongdage
well put simply...
Iliad > Oly
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that's gonna get you in trouble m'laddy
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May the Farce be with you...
#pr0nstars - a pimp is for life, not just for christmas
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3 Apr 2003, 08:44
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#23
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: wish id remember more often
Posts: 59
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but it sure was a great time there in Iliad hehe
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I could make a nice quote, but Ryker would get so mad, so i better not, or should i change my mind. Glad there is logs :P
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3 Apr 2003, 11:43
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#24
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Giant Squid Wrestler
Join Date: May 2001
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 190
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Quote:
Originally posted by MAdnRisKy
that's gonna get you in trouble m'laddy
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wasnt meant as an insult, just personal opinion
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[F.E.A.R.]
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