User Name
Password

Go Back   Planetarion Forums > Planetarion Related Forums > Strategic Discussions

Reply
Thread Tools Display Modes
Unread 16 Jan 2008, 10:27   #101
-CP-
SHW
 
-CP-'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: @home
Posts: 228
-CP- is a jewel in the rough-CP- is a jewel in the rough-CP- is a jewel in the rough
Re: Round 25: stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sun_Tzu
Oh god, reading the suggestions put forth in this thread makes me want to cry... Good god what morons are abound these days...

I second Heartless that most of PA these days is useless gimmicks which complicate the game without adding anything to it. Also, I agree with jerome about abolishing races. The EMP "critical failure" almost seems like an interesting idea, but it would require that EMP ress.eff. would be dropped quite a lot, and in essence the same result could be had with conventional means.

And the person who suggested PDS be brought back needs to be shot. If you morons haven't figured out the arguments against it by now, you need to check yourself into a home for the retarded tbfh.
Wow.. I just love it when people can relay their opinions in a objective way without calling people morons etc..

When it comes to the weakness of cat I can vouch for that. After being away from the game for a while I chose cat since this was my race back in the day. What a mistake that proved to be. It seems hopelessely underpowered and there is little or no chance of doing well when you have incoming 24/7. We need something to be able to scare people off.
__________________
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.

SHW, ReBorn, Wolfpack, NoS, Eclipse, Ascendancy
-CP- is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16 Jan 2008, 13:47   #102
Ave
Registered User
 
Ave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 936
Ave is a glorious beacon of lightAve is a glorious beacon of lightAve is a glorious beacon of lightAve is a glorious beacon of lightAve is a glorious beacon of lightAve is a glorious beacon of light
Re: Round 25: stats

nothing wrong with PDS aslong as it moves.
__________________
If the opponent resists, CaRnage there will be!
Ave is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16 Jan 2008, 14:30   #103
-CP-
SHW
 
-CP-'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: @home
Posts: 228
-CP- is a jewel in the rough-CP- is a jewel in the rough-CP- is a jewel in the rough
Re: Round 25: stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ave
nothing wrong with PDS aslong as it moves.
A super stardestroyer for cathaar.. (normal not emp) too slow to attack with but with targeting for fi/co/fr.. would be nice Kinda like movable pds
__________________
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.

SHW, ReBorn, Wolfpack, NoS, Eclipse, Ascendancy
-CP- is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16 Jan 2008, 14:56   #104
Mzyxptlk
mz.
Alien Invasion Champion, Submarine Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Barts Watersports Adventure Champion
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: Round 25: stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ave
nothing wrong with PDS aslong as it moves.
Er... I believe we call this a "ship".
__________________
The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
Mzyxptlk is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 17 Jan 2008, 10:48   #105
Sun_Tzu
Arrogant Fck
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Helsinki, Finland
Posts: 1,031
Sun_Tzu is a glorious beacon of lightSun_Tzu is a glorious beacon of lightSun_Tzu is a glorious beacon of lightSun_Tzu is a glorious beacon of lightSun_Tzu is a glorious beacon of light
Re: Round 25: stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by -CP-
Wow.. I just love it when people can relay their opinions in a objective way without calling people morons etc..

When it comes to the weakness of cat I can vouch for that. After being away from the game for a while I chose cat since this was my race back in the day. What a mistake that proved to be. It seems hopelessely underpowered and there is little or no chance of doing well when you have incoming 24/7. We need something to be able to scare people off.
I never claimed I was a nice person. That doesn't mean I'm wrong though.

Cath can still be played quite well, you might have noticed the current #1 is cath, and not for a lack of incomings. The difference is how he plays cath, as he seems to understand the race a bit better than you have.
__________________
[OLMIT] / [TreKronor]
Sun_Tzu is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 17 Jan 2008, 11:31   #106
Mzyxptlk
mz.
Alien Invasion Champion, Submarine Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Barts Watersports Adventure Champion
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: Round 25: stats

This fits perfectly in the idea that cath is a race for winners and losers, with little to no room in between. If you're a Cathaar planet in the top10, it's generally a lot easier to maintain your position and keep your roids than it is for a Cathaar planet outside the top100. Much more so than for Terran planets in the same position, or Xandathrii, or any of the other races.
__________________
The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
Mzyxptlk is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 17 Jan 2008, 11:50   #107
Duncan
saint-ciboire de tabarnac
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 244
Duncan has much to be proud ofDuncan has much to be proud ofDuncan has much to be proud ofDuncan has much to be proud ofDuncan has much to be proud ofDuncan has much to be proud ofDuncan has much to be proud ofDuncan has much to be proud ofDuncan has much to be proud ofDuncan has much to be proud of
Re: Round 25: stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sun_Tzu
Cath can still be played quite well, you might have noticed the current #1 is cath, and not for a lack of incomings. The difference is how he plays cath, as he seems to understand the race a bit better than you have.
it's tick 135. let's see how cathaar planets are doing a few weeks from now, at least.

please share the secret diffrences in gameplay on how to achieve a good rank with cath with the current stats. be in a great gal, top alliance (for the def that you WILL need to keep any sort of roids), build a proper fleet and be active with attacks?
Duncan is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 17 Jan 2008, 14:23   #108
Duo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 108
Duo has a spectacular aura aboutDuo has a spectacular aura about
Re: Round 25: stats

Cath arent going to do well. Atm you can go exp whoring like the current cath #1, but thats going to be it. But like all races, if there simply arent enough of you around, you will be hard pressed to do well.

Not even mentioning the inc magnet you are already.
__________________
[SPOOOON]
Duo is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 17 Jan 2008, 18:28   #109
Sun_Tzu
Arrogant Fck
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Helsinki, Finland
Posts: 1,031
Sun_Tzu is a glorious beacon of lightSun_Tzu is a glorious beacon of lightSun_Tzu is a glorious beacon of lightSun_Tzu is a glorious beacon of lightSun_Tzu is a glorious beacon of light
Re: Round 25: stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duncan
it's tick 135. let's see how cathaar planets are doing a few weeks from now, at least.

please share the secret diffrences in gameplay on how to achieve a good rank with cath with the current stats. be in a great gal, top alliance (for the def that you WILL need to keep any sort of roids), build a proper fleet and be active with attacks?
Firstly, great post there captain obvious.

Secondly, this is what bugs me about strategy, and the reason why I went from being a helpful contributing person to a grumpy "old" man. You seem to think that just because you haven't bothered getting to know the game that I somehow am obligated to tell you how to play, just because I've spent years analyzing stats and the effects of the game mechanics. I'm sorry, but until you start to pull your own weight, don't expect me to actually offer up a serious reply except to tell you what an moron you are.
__________________
[OLMIT] / [TreKronor]
Sun_Tzu is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 17 Jan 2008, 22:10   #110
Duncan
saint-ciboire de tabarnac
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 244
Duncan has much to be proud ofDuncan has much to be proud ofDuncan has much to be proud ofDuncan has much to be proud ofDuncan has much to be proud ofDuncan has much to be proud ofDuncan has much to be proud ofDuncan has much to be proud ofDuncan has much to be proud ofDuncan has much to be proud of
Re: Round 25: stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sun_Tzu
Firstly, great post there captain obvious.

Secondly, this is what bugs me about strategy, and the reason why I went from being a helpful contributing person to a grumpy "old" man. You seem to think that just because you haven't bothered getting to know the game that I somehow am obligated to tell you how to play, just because I've spent years analyzing stats and the effects of the game mechanics. I'm sorry, but until you start to pull your own weight, don't expect me to actually offer up a serious reply except to tell you what an moron you are.
hey, at least i took a guess on how to do well with cathaar. there are other conditions that need to be met? that's sad because if you can't do well in a top gal / good alliance / playing active / decent fleet composition i would say the race is pretty much shit. i would also think a more aggressive playing style is beneficial, to the point of exp whoring if needed to stay up in score.

maybe that wasn't what you were thinking.

that's fine, don't enlighten us with your experience and superior intelligence. allow me to point out one more very obvious thing to you: if you aren't going to contribute anything other then blatant trolls and smuggly patting yourself on the back for what smart guy you are, ****off
Duncan is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 17 Jan 2008, 23:09   #111
-CP-
SHW
 
-CP-'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: @home
Posts: 228
-CP- is a jewel in the rough-CP- is a jewel in the rough-CP- is a jewel in the rough
Re: Round 25: stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sun_Tzu
just because I've spent years analyzing stats and the effects of the game mechanics

Oh my.. that is sad..
__________________
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.

SHW, ReBorn, Wolfpack, NoS, Eclipse, Ascendancy
-CP- is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 17 Jan 2008, 23:15   #112
-CP-
SHW
 
-CP-'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: @home
Posts: 228
-CP- is a jewel in the rough-CP- is a jewel in the rough-CP- is a jewel in the rough
Re: Round 25: stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sun_Tzu
I never claimed I was a nice person. That doesn't mean I'm wrong though.
It really has nothing to do with being nice. It is the simple matter of ability. Are you able to state your opinions without insulting people or are you not?

I never said it was impossible to play well as cathaar, and I never claimed to be a talented player. The simple fact is I have a life and a job that consumes me and leaves little time for playing compared to the "hardcore" players. Still my personal opinion is that there should be room for people like me, who enjoy the game without having 10 hours a day to play.
__________________
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.

SHW, ReBorn, Wolfpack, NoS, Eclipse, Ascendancy
-CP- is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 18 Jan 2008, 15:08   #113
Sun_Tzu
Arrogant Fck
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Helsinki, Finland
Posts: 1,031
Sun_Tzu is a glorious beacon of lightSun_Tzu is a glorious beacon of lightSun_Tzu is a glorious beacon of lightSun_Tzu is a glorious beacon of lightSun_Tzu is a glorious beacon of light
Re: Round 25: stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by -CP-
It really has nothing to do with being nice. It is the simple matter of ability. Are you able to state your opinions without insulting people or are you not?

I never said it was impossible to play well as cathaar, and I never claimed to be a talented player. The simple fact is I have a life and a job that consumes me and leaves little time for playing compared to the "hardcore" players. Still my personal opinion is that there should be room for people like me, who enjoy the game without having 10 hours a day to play.
I have a job, a gf, I'm enrolled at uni and I have friends and a life. Even before PaX you could have a life and be a top player, after PaX it's even easier. I played cath some rounds ago and hung around the top3 for about a month with less than 1-2h per day spent on the game. It's not about how much time you spend, it's about how you spend the time.
__________________
[OLMIT] / [TreKronor]
Sun_Tzu is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 18 Jan 2008, 22:08   #114
Tietäjä
Good Son
 
Tietäjä's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Finland
Posts: 3,991
Tietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better place
Re: Round 25: stats

What the hell are you doing here Sun?
Tietäjä is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 18 Jan 2008, 22:45   #115
Achilles
Poblacht na hÉireann
 
Achilles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,167
Achilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAchilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAchilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAchilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAchilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAchilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAchilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAchilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAchilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAchilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAchilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus would
Re: Round 25: stats

He plays again.
Achilles is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 19 Jan 2008, 07:59   #116
Ultimate Newbie
Commodore
 
Ultimate Newbie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 3,176
Ultimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like him
Re: Round 25: stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sun_Tzu
You seem to think that just because you haven't bothered getting to know the game that I somehow am obligated to tell you how to play,
I dont think that is a very positive mindset there Sun. This person is asking a question about something s/he doesnt understand, and/or wants the opinions of others on. No-one would learn anything if everyone held your (apparent) attitude, as no-one would divulge anything "free of charge" as it were.

Sure, the original poster could have tried to extend themself and flesh out their post some more with what s/he is currently thinking, but alas this is the internet and we are all people - just because its on a computer screen, people still dont like being called idiots for what they think is wrong, and thus may choose to withold their opinion.

Strategy is a happy place, and has always been open for people to ask questions, particularly since the Newbie Help forum was eliminated. This remains the case. If you're not overly happy about that Sun, then well, he didnt specifically ask you for your opinion, so why not just say nothing?




On a more general note, i'm not overly happy about the angst in this thread and elsewhere on this forum. Please remember that Strategy is a happy and friendly place. I'm pretty tolerant on most things, and there is nothing (yet) specific over the line, but that doesnt mean its getting too ugly for this place. All posters, please excersise some restraint.

Thanks.
__________________
#Strategy ; #Support - Sovereign
--- --- ---
"The Cake is a Lie."
Ultimate Newbie is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 19 Jan 2008, 18:21   #117
Tietäjä
Good Son
 
Tietäjä's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Finland
Posts: 3,991
Tietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better place
Re: Round 25: stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Achilles
He plays again.
Haha. Alright. Thanks.
Tietäjä is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 20 Jan 2008, 18:35   #118
rop1964
F Crew
 
rop1964's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: sorel, quebec, canada
Posts: 268
rop1964 is just really nicerop1964 is just really nicerop1964 is just really nicerop1964 is just really nicerop1964 is just really nice
Re: Round 25: stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by puss
not much difference from the 'bashing' point of view - i think both thoe types of situation should lose xp (tho i think in both those cases the difference is too big for the atack to be allowed anyways (i think the planet being attacked would appear as orange to the attacker in both cases)
indeed, except that the bashing limit was now made to include the score, which is, in my opinion, a huge mistake.
by making score a part of the bash limit, planet that should had been out of range are now a target.. even if the fleet value is hugely unbalanced..

the only way to solve this is to remove the score from the bash limit, (as score is suppose to reflect how good and daring you re fleet landing were), and increase the value limit to 60%! as at 40% it give way to easy access to bashing..
__________________
They may be big, they may be small, they may be invisible.. but they all fall before me.. lol

[F-Crew] - You know when you've been [FC]uked
rop1964 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 21 Jan 2008, 07:33   #119
Sun_Tzu
Arrogant Fck
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Helsinki, Finland
Posts: 1,031
Sun_Tzu is a glorious beacon of lightSun_Tzu is a glorious beacon of lightSun_Tzu is a glorious beacon of lightSun_Tzu is a glorious beacon of lightSun_Tzu is a glorious beacon of light
Re: Round 25: stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultimate Newbie
I dont think that is a very positive mindset there Sun. This person is asking a question about something s/he doesnt understand, and/or wants the opinions of others on. No-one would learn anything if everyone held your (apparent) attitude, as no-one would divulge anything "free of charge" as it were.

Sure, the original poster could have tried to extend themself and flesh out their post some more with what s/he is currently thinking, but alas this is the internet and we are all people - just because its on a computer screen, people still dont like being called idiots for what they think is wrong, and thus may choose to withold their opinion.

Strategy is a happy place, and has always been open for people to ask questions, particularly since the Newbie Help forum was eliminated. This remains the case. If you're not overly happy about that Sun, then well, he didnt specifically ask you for your opinion, so why not just say nothing?
The problem is, and I know you know this because you were around arguing with me when things were different, that there's no more dialogue amongst knowledgeable people here. In the past, people tried to find out and understand for themselves as opposed to simply asking for a answer they wouldn't understand anyway. This meant that people had different viewpoints and arguments to support them, and as such the discussion was far more rich and interesting. It also meant that anyone who simply read what the rest of us posted would have gained far more knowledge than they do these days by asking a few unintelligent questions.

By accepting a role of simply being the ones that repeat back the simplest of common wisdom to anyone who asks, Strategy has died.
__________________
[OLMIT] / [TreKronor]
Sun_Tzu is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 21 Jan 2008, 12:27   #120
Duncan
saint-ciboire de tabarnac
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 244
Duncan has much to be proud ofDuncan has much to be proud ofDuncan has much to be proud ofDuncan has much to be proud ofDuncan has much to be proud ofDuncan has much to be proud ofDuncan has much to be proud ofDuncan has much to be proud ofDuncan has much to be proud ofDuncan has much to be proud of
Re: Round 25: stats

the considerably reduced player base is the main reason there isn't as much 'rich and interesting' discussion regarding PA strategy on the forums.

p.s only 3 cathaar planets left in the top 100 at tick 231 (the only info you've supplied regarding anything on how to play cathaar well this round. ). one of them hasn't even been roided yet. he built a pure cr/bs fleet with a 7:1:5 ratio of roach / tarant / scorpion. roaches are one of the most efficient ships in the game and he has alot of them. shouldn't be too hard to cover against fr/de spam as long as there isn't massive amounts sent. scorpions are great because it's bs targeting fi/co and since the tarant fires before dragons it keeps bs incoming away at least. this fleet really allows for numerous attack options as well. main problem i see is lack of alliance def. he might make a def fleet later on (i think vipers would fit pretty well personally). i am interested to see how things go for him.

Please refer to Post 116 in this thread (ie, mine, above) and/or the Planetarion Forum Rules. Keep the discussion civil, or your posts will be edited. Strategy is a friendly place. -UN

Last edited by Ultimate Newbie; 21 Jan 2008 at 14:23.
Duncan is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 21 Jan 2008, 14:38   #121
Ultimate Newbie
Commodore
 
Ultimate Newbie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 3,176
Ultimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himUltimate Newbie is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like him
Re: Round 25: stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sun_Tzu
The problem is, and I know you know this because you were around arguing with me when things were different, that there's no more dialogue amongst knowledgeable people here. In the past, people tried to find out and understand for themselves as opposed to simply asking for a answer they wouldn't understand anyway. This meant that people had different viewpoints and arguments to support them, and as such the discussion was far more rich and interesting.
In many respects, that's true. But sometimes, the prevailing issues at the time had more impact on how people played that game than it does now. Eg, WF and BW in R5 - it was essentially an argument of preference which depended on playing styles, and as such how those playing styles different from each individual player mattered insofar as how well your planet did. That sort of thing leads to lively discussion. Similar things with Tarants & Battleships in R3, or the question of PDS (when to use, when not to, etc - remember R4 Tacheyon Beamers were the best anti Pod unit in the game before the mid-round stat change and/or The Roman Fortress' use of PDS in R3 to make himself essentially immune to incoming for 6 months of constant reasonably serious incoming, etc). None of these things are apparent in the game anymore. By now, most players choose a race that more or less suits their playing styles and/or pick "wintraides" or the equilivent for that round. Once you have that race, the choice within that race isnt usually contrversial. Particulary in an environment when virtually all of the playerbase is very well educated with how ship stats work - or at the very least, plugged into good networks of friends and/or alliances where they can just ask "oi, what race for this round? - Zik? ok. What ships... Cutter and Pods? great. Stockpiling, obviously, to build out of incs early, and just mass roid for XP and stuff." Sure, this still takes skill, and time effort and planning to get it all "right". But now most people know most of what they need to know to get it mostly right off the cuff. The result: no real need to consult Strategy. No real need to spend countless hours pouring over Unit Matricies (lo Tac ) that you dont really understand but look pretty. Or tediously using Excel to work out a great Tick plan for x race with y government and z population settings. Because this is all just calculation - everyone understands the mechanics.

Those who dont, come to Strategy for initial guidance. Much of this guidance is either too complex or jargon filled, or too simplistic to help much - but often enough its helpful enough, particularly when you get them in touch with the right people who are willing to take the time in a positive way.

In that respect, there is little day-to-day argument or discussion or trying to convert eachother from one side to another through passionate debate with the occasional diagram or figure to make the point. Because its no longer necessary. The days of revering Strategy moderators as Gods who miracuously conjured some sense out of that rumbled mess that were Ship Stats essentially ended when the playerbase dropped significantly to the point where only those predisposed with the knowledge were likely to pay to play. Plus, it was around this time i was also promoted - i deny any conncection, of course .

So yes, Strategy has significantly changed. Why? because a forum is only as good as its community. And a Strategy forum is in a particular pinch; as its only as good as the community and the game that they play.


Doesnt stop it being a great place to stash helpful resources, or be nostalgic about the past, though .
__________________
#Strategy ; #Support - Sovereign
--- --- ---
"The Cake is a Lie."
Ultimate Newbie is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 21 Jan 2008, 20:50   #122
Zaejii
This Space for Rent
Speedy Thief Champion, Turbo Turtle Champion, Cop-For-This Champion
 
Zaejii's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 583
Zaejii has much to be proud ofZaejii has much to be proud ofZaejii has much to be proud ofZaejii has much to be proud ofZaejii has much to be proud ofZaejii has much to be proud ofZaejii has much to be proud ofZaejii has much to be proud of
Re: Round 25: stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by rop1964
indeed, except that the bashing limit was now made to include the score, which is, in my opinion, a huge mistake.
by making score a part of the bash limit, planet that should had been out of range are now a target.. even if the fleet value is hugely unbalanced..

the only way to solve this is to remove the score from the bash limit, (as score is suppose to reflect how good and daring you re fleet landing were), and increase the value limit to 60%! as at 40% it give way to easy access to bashing..
i believe the bash limit was made to include to score to stop the people who play purely for xp from being immune to being attacked. their value would be so tiny that most couldn't hit them, but their fleet would be so specialized they could get tonnes of xp off the higher value players fairly easy.

feel free to correct me if i'm wrong
__________________
When in doubt, blame Ascendancy.
#pastats
Zaejii is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 22 Jan 2008, 11:22   #123
Mzyxptlk
mz.
Alien Invasion Champion, Submarine Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Barts Watersports Adventure Champion
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: Round 25: stats

Zaejii, you're right.

Sov, you're also (partly) right. Many people play in the way they've always played. Indeed, conversations of the kind you mentioned seem to be getting increasingly more common, in a community with a high level of veterancy like Ascendancy, as well as in alliances like Rock.

However, there are also strategies in the game that require meticulous planning (I daresay more so than "in the old days"). Scanning and distwhoring for example require a fairly intimate knowledge of how to work population and government (the most obvious choice here is not the best). For cov opping one arguably needs even more precise knowledge. When am I immune, what is the best number of agents to use, who to hit, when to hit, how to find targets, the list goes on. I for one have indeed created excel sheets with tickplans, calculations and diagrams to help me understand and improve these strategies (not to mention this, which, although it says it's for r22, is updated for r25), and although I doubt many others have done the same, I have noticed a certain demand for that knowledge. (I have been dubbed the unofficial PA FAQ by some. )
__________________
The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
Mzyxptlk is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 22 Jan 2008, 13:48   #124
Gate
;D!
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,810
Gate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like him
Re: Round 25: stats

Comment on cathaar. If we're not going to get rid of them, because EMP is fundamentally flawed;

With multiple targetting, are that many EMP ships needed? 2 or 3 EMP ships could cover all classes with EMP with multitargetting. The rest could be made into killships. How have people reacted to this idea previously, and how would you react now, seeing cath perform again with massive EMP and little kill.

A 3:4 or 4:3 split would make cath less distinctive, but with some playing could be better balanced whilst still giving the option of pacifist play.
__________________
[ND]
Kicked from Ascendancy
Proud to have been a Dark Lord Rising.
Gate is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 22 Jan 2008, 16:30   #125
Mzyxptlk
mz.
Alien Invasion Champion, Submarine Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Barts Watersports Adventure Champion
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: Round 25: stats

One should keep in mind that EMP ships firing at T2 and T3 only fire at 60% and 30% efficiency, respectively, which makes them quite a lot weaker. Of course this applies to kill ships as well, but stunning 70% instead of 100% of an opponent's ships has a much larger impact than killing 70% instead of 100%.

That said, I see no need for Cathaar to be able to stun every class with their T1. In that light, I see no significant objections to your suggestion and think it would probably be a good thing.
__________________
The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
Mzyxptlk is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 22 Jan 2008, 17:20   #126
rop1964
F Crew
 
rop1964's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: sorel, quebec, canada
Posts: 268
rop1964 is just really nicerop1964 is just really nicerop1964 is just really nicerop1964 is just really nicerop1964 is just really nice
Re: Round 25: stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zaejii
i believe the bash limit was made to include to score to stop the people who play purely for xp from being immune to being attacked. their value would be so tiny that most couldn't hit them, but their fleet would be so specialized they could get tonnes of xp off the higher value players fairly easy.

feel free to correct me if i'm wrong
i know that, but i d like to point out that not all players do specialised their fleet, and many of those specialised players dont mind being attack back either. beside, a low value fleet is much more likely to be stop than a big value fleet.


and since most players are not specialised.. stopping those big value players is nearly impossible for them. even with alliance defense.

a player who outpowered another by 3 or 4 time it s value will virtually get no defense to stop his attack, cause he s just too powerful to stop..

and the xp gain for such attack should be nil.. cause there s virtually no opposition, the attack being made risk free and for the roids only.. no daring, no cunning, no strategy applied here.. just pure bullying force!

that s why i will keep saying score is not a relevant matter for bash limit definition. score reflect how good you are at landing an attack against a bigger planet (who technically should be more powerful than you!), and in that respect.. any players should not be punish for doing well.

but when someone use massive fleet , the reality is, the attacker will not be stop, cause the fleet is just too powerful to be stop. and that occur a lot more from high value players. i d like you to prove me wrong on that! :-)

i know what many will say "just get into a better alliance, get gal defense, run your fleet, etc" but fact is.. only a few select can get into those alliances, and those alliance also often refuse to even take new players!
gal defense is all good.. except in two case.. everyone in gal is attack or nearly no one is online to help.. and even if they are.. most wont send defense if they see a massive incoming.. cause they think "it s too big.. i cant stop it". so 90% of the time a big value player will land his attack, often against a medium or low value players.. because that low or medium player has got a few successful landing against a bigger planets.

since when bullying was the way to go in pa.. i thought or heard ppls says pa is a strategy game, a game of skill and planning! what s the skill in attacking a planet that is 2,3,4 or 5 time weaker than you?

just my two cent.. as i said.. i know there s specialised planets.. who build massive fleet of fi, de or bs.. but those can be stop , if sufficient defense is mount.. but for the average players.. stopping the bigger guys is an impossible task!

hence my stand against score being in the bash limit.
__________________
They may be big, they may be small, they may be invisible.. but they all fall before me.. lol

[F-Crew] - You know when you've been [FC]uked
rop1964 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 22 Jan 2008, 21:09   #127
Gate
;D!
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,810
Gate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himGate is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like him
Re: Round 25: stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk
One should keep in mind that EMP ships firing at T2 and T3 only fire at 60% and 30% efficiency, respectively, which makes them quite a lot weaker. Of course this applies to kill ships as well, but stunning 70% instead of 100% of an opponent's ships has a much larger impact than killing 70% instead of 100%.
The number of killships should offset this.

Failing that, the EMP resistance of the target ships could be messed around with. If this affects etd, the number of EMP guns on etd ships could also be messed around with.

I think it's balance-able, but I feel some caths would bemoan the lack of purity.


One other subject: ship names. I think the etd have too many names ending in 'er' or 'or'. I'd consider adding something out of merchant, agent, magnate or oligarch. And the pod theme being judiciary. So Baliff plus magistrate or judge.
__________________
[ND]
Kicked from Ascendancy
Proud to have been a Dark Lord Rising.
Gate is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 22 Jan 2008, 22:25   #128
Machado
Seraphim
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 196
Machado is a jewel in the roughMachado is a jewel in the roughMachado is a jewel in the roughMachado is a jewel in the rough
Re: Round 25: stats

Well, the problem I sort of feel with Planetarion is that there's virtually no atmosphere in the game itself.

Ship names are common and rather boring, the universe is filled with crazy ass names that cannot in any way resemble a real planet name, and the overview, production, etc are just... boring as hell! It's not in any way appealing. People log on, look around, and think: ok there's just a few buttons.

But that's just my opinion and its completely off-topic :P
Machado is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 22 Jan 2008, 23:45   #129
Sun_Tzu
Arrogant Fck
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Helsinki, Finland
Posts: 1,031
Sun_Tzu is a glorious beacon of lightSun_Tzu is a glorious beacon of lightSun_Tzu is a glorious beacon of lightSun_Tzu is a glorious beacon of lightSun_Tzu is a glorious beacon of light
Re: Round 25: stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultimate Newbie
...or be nostalgic about the past, though .
Cath cr/bs fleet still sucks m8 ;P

And no, I'm not refering to current stats. This was an argument we had a million times with Sovvy pre-PaX.

Tbh I'm having quite a bit of fun playing ziks this round. They've managed to get them to a point where a good steal can change the main class of your attackfleet, so one day you may be attacking with co, the next with fi, or indeed with de and the next day with fr. Keeps the game interesting, and requires that you know a lot more than the other races as far as stats are concerned.
__________________
[OLMIT] / [TreKronor]
Sun_Tzu is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 18:45.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2002 - 2018