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Unread 6 Apr 2003, 21:26   #51
Confraria
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Quote:
Originally posted by MadeMan
What an attitude! q_p
bite me.
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Unread 6 Apr 2003, 21:34   #52
MadeMan
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/me bites ya head off
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Unread 6 Apr 2003, 21:46   #53
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Quote:
Originally posted by Gayle29uk
A proven cheat is reopened and you expect me to be happy about it?

Not gonna happen.
U can't change that.. Feel the way u want about it.. but please cut out the whining. And I don't think Rabba deserves all the trashing on the boards. He isn't a person who would trash people on the boards if the tables where turned.
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Unread 6 Apr 2003, 21:49   #54
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Its not rabba that should get the beating atm its the admins for doing such a thing, rabba did what he did.. he lost all none zik ships it seems, maybe fair maybe not but, after they closed him for proved shipfarming then opening him up again. Thats what i dont like about this.
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Unread 6 Apr 2003, 21:50   #55
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I really hope WP kicks him for this.
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Unread 6 Apr 2003, 21:51   #56
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Quote:
Originally posted by ParraCida
So for if you farm ships, use them to steal roids and get caught. You just have to give back your farmed ships?

He is no better of then he would be had he not cheated, therefore there is no punishment at all.
Maybe they couldn't prove that he had farmed roids?
He is basically the first one this round caught for ship-farming. First one ever then I guess. So first time would mean there havn't been similare cases they could compare with. So punishment might not be deletion, just removal of the farmed ships. He does loose the ships he farmed.. and that would also mean the ships he used to gain thoose ships. So some punishment is it. I could agree it seems a bit mild all things considering.
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Unread 6 Apr 2003, 21:57   #57
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Quote:
Originally posted by Storebo
U can't change that.. Feel the way u want about it.. but please cut out the whining. And I don't think Rabba deserves all the trashing on the boards. He isn't a person who would trash people on the boards if the tables where turned.
Well said..
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Unread 6 Apr 2003, 22:35   #58
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Quote:
Originally posted by -CP-
Don't be a retard Zhil.. now ship farming has been added to the official planetarion rules.. Not even you could get out of that one..
It was already part of the rules before. Duh!

Whoever gets caught can claim exactly the same as Rabba. Plus the fact they let Rabba do it means it would be dodgy.

Additionally, I never mentioned myself in that. It would be abit hard for me to fleet farm considering I'm Terran.
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Unread 6 Apr 2003, 22:39   #59
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I havent seen anything this completely stupid since round 2 and Spinner changed the launch cost for Thieves in order to "help the smaller people". Whatever interest I did have of playing next round has been ruined by seeing the type of incompetence that the people who control the game has. Its a shame you guys couldnt chip in a few bucks to keep Zeus. Say what you want about him, but this crap wouldnt have happened if Zeus was around.
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Unread 6 Apr 2003, 22:41   #60
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no, then we would have seen alot more deleted planets / galaxys q_p
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Unread 6 Apr 2003, 22:47   #61
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Quote:
Originally posted by Zh|l
It was already part of the rules before. Duh!

Whoever gets caught can claim exactly the same as Rabba. Plus the fact they let Rabba do it means it would be dodgy.

Additionally, I never mentioned myself in that. It would be abit hard for me to fleet farm considering I'm Terran.
I did not accuse you of farming, merely stating that you seem to argue this case pretty hard from your perspective.. I also believe that the rules about ship farming should have been included in the original pa rules, The fact that people have sent ships to ziks can't have come as a surprise for any of us and could easily have been forseen..

This game has many cheaters. People have let their allience #1 farm roids from them like crazy to win, they have taken over other accounts, they have had multiple accounts, they have shared accounts and so on, many without ever getting any badmouthing on the forums. I don't know anything about this case at all, but I do find it funny that all teh forum vultures jump at this like it was the worst thing ever in pa history..

I would also like to get rid of all cheating in pa, but I would not like to attack any person on these forums for something he or she has done.. The job of punishing individuals suspected of cheating should be left up to planetarion and not to me..

I can't help it.. it just makes annoys me so much..
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Unread 6 Apr 2003, 23:41   #62
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Think Spinner is going to like my "Why was fred closed in r7? and why did you cost my galaxy a win, since of course, nothing he did was against your rules till now"
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Unread 6 Apr 2003, 23:55   #63
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I cannot believe some of the blatantly incorrect arguments in this thread. PA crew has now given every player access to the new rules - under announcements, and even under the overview.
If anybody farms any ships after those announcements were made, they can and will be deleted.

Psi, why are you still going on about Fred? He asteroid farmed which was against the user agreement and the rules in the manual. Your galaxy was not robbed of a win - he got caught doing something that he had every opportunity to know was illegal. That example just does not parallel Rabbagast's case in any way shape or form.

If I recall, TU was deleted for login/account sharing, which has been against the user agreement since round 2. Again, this example does not apply to the current case.

I know that a lot of people are displeased with what happened, but everyone has to respect PA Crew for this decision. They did what they feel is right, even though they knew they would take a lot of flak about it on the forums.

They also made it so its not possible for this event to happen again this round, so they aren't just dodging this bombshell and praying another does not fall.

It was essentially a learning experience for everyone. Now if you don't want Rabbagast to win this round, you will have to actually take the battle to his planet instead of trying to get him deleted. He is an honorable player, and his planet is clean.
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Unread 7 Apr 2003, 00:00   #64
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Quote:
Originally posted by N0VA
his planet is clean.
Scuse me? He ship farmed ffs!
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Unread 7 Apr 2003, 00:01   #65
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Quote:
Originally posted by N0VA
II know that a lot of people are displeased with what happened, but everyone has to respect PA Crew for this decision. They did what they feel is right
I don't think they did. I think they did what their employers told them to do. Driving away possible customers isn't the best tactic for a business.

Quote:
He is an honorable player, and his planet is clean.
Actually no. He ship farmed, possibly roid farmed. His planet got there through illegal activities. The creators not enforcing their laws doesn't make him any less guilty.
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Unread 7 Apr 2003, 00:39   #66
Sirad
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games ****
so why not let the creators make **** decisions
all in all who any longer cares
the numbers of people playing each round is testament to the success of this game.
PLD us for powerblocking round after round driveing n00bs away
PLD creators for setting sub-standard examples on cheating for the community to follow.

Good night
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Unread 7 Apr 2003, 01:21   #67
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Unread 7 Apr 2003, 01:44   #68
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Quote:
Originally posted by Scouse
I don't think they did. I think they did what their employers told them to do. Driving away possible customers isn't the best tactic for a business.
I think reversing the decision will drive more customers away :/
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Unread 7 Apr 2003, 01:47   #69
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i might be the only non-WP guy with this opinion:

but with the amount of doubt, and shady arguments on both sides: laying the entire thing dead like they did was a desicion that showed courage, and willingness not to destroy a gal's or planets round.

sorting the rules out, and only acting on future cases was the mature thing to do. Cry all you want, life sucks etc: but they have the rest of the round to prove they will take down cheaters. They better well f*cking use it too though.
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Unread 7 Apr 2003, 01:56   #70
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Bot use is not against the rules.

Does this mean I can use a bot? My defence would be the same as Rabba's - there's no rule against it stated anywhere...
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Unread 7 Apr 2003, 02:12   #71
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Quote:
Originally posted by ComradeRob
Bot use is not against the rules.

Does this mean I can use a bot? My defence would be the same as Rabba's - there's no rule against it stated anywhere...
This bit IS in the user agreement (section 8):
"You may not access the Game or your Account through other software than standard browsers, wap phones and alike, nor may you use automated programs / bots / scripts to do so."
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Unread 7 Apr 2003, 02:27   #72
N0VA
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Quote:
Originally posted by A2
This bit IS in the user agreement (section 8):
"You may not access the Game or your Account through other software than standard browsers, wap phones and alike, nor may you use automated programs / bots / scripts to do so."
A2, rational arguments do not work on this crowd - they were presented with the smell of blood and the hopes of an easier shot at victory, so they are blinded.

I would have expected the recent debates over the contents of the user agreement and the manual to have motivated people to actually read them - but I have still been disappointed with the results.
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Unread 7 Apr 2003, 02:39   #73
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Quote:
Originally posted by N0VA
A2, rational arguments do not work on this crowd - they were presented with the smell of blood and the hopes of an easier shot at victory, so they are blinded.

I would have expected the recent debates over the contents of the user agreement and the manual to have motivated people to actually read them - but I have still been disappointed with the results.
The user agreement isn't actually posted anywhere

You agree to it during signup, but there is no copy of it posted anywhere else

I actually don't 'smell blood'. I actually said that Rabba should be reopened, but I think that the way this has been handled has been very unprofessional throughout.

The creators positions have been:

1) He's guilty, but it's only a minor offence so we'll only take off the ships he stole plus a small 'fine'
2) He's guilty, and will be closed pending investigation and possible deletion (with a minimum closure of 9 days)
3) He's not guilty after all

What I would like to know is:

Was anyone else closed/deleted for breaking any of the rules posted in the new amendment (which includes all farming/account-sharing)? Based on the decision made on Rabba's case, anyone closed for offences covered under the amendment should in fact not have been closed. And don't even dare try to invoke 'common sense' to argue against that, because it could be considered 'common sense' that ship farming is illegal.

All I want is to know that the rules are being equally enforced for everyone, and that the creators are not making arbitrary decisions based on what they think will play well with the community. Also, I think that the ramifications of the recent events need to be examined fully in order to avoid the same mistakes being made for r10.
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Unread 7 Apr 2003, 02:54   #74
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Quote:
Originally posted by ComradeRob
The user agreement isn't actually posted anywhere

You agree to it during signup, but there is no copy of it posted anywhere else

I actually don't 'smell blood'. I actually said that Rabba should be reopened, but I think that the way this has been handled has been very unprofessional throughout.

The creators positions have been:

1) He's guilty, but it's only a minor offence so we'll only take off the ships he stole plus a small 'fine'
2) He's guilty, and will be closed pending investigation and possible deletion (with a minimum closure of 9 days)
3) He's not guilty after all

What I would like to know is:

Was anyone else closed/deleted for breaking any of the rules posted in the new amendment (which includes all farming/account-sharing)? Based on the decision made on Rabba's case, anyone closed for offences covered under the amendment should in fact not have been closed. And don't even dare try to invoke 'common sense' to argue against that, because it could be considered 'common sense' that ship farming is illegal.

All I want is to know that the rules are being equally enforced for everyone, and that the creators are not making arbitrary decisions based on what they think will play well with the community. Also, I think that the ramifications of the recent events need to be examined fully in order to avoid the same mistakes being made for r10.

I've been accessing the User Agreement by clicking the "sign up" link. It's only against the rules to sign up for multiple accounts, not to start going through the procedure multiple times to read the user agreement

And to ammend the creator's approach to it, it has seemed more of "we know that he violated the rules, but what is the appropriate punishment?".

As for the other people closed for violations the Amendment covers - it only applies to r9 first of all, since r7 and r8 were very explicit about what was against the rules. Secondly, a case _could_ be made for people roid farming this round, but that is really trying to exploit a loophole. The reason they were lax in this case is that ship farming had never been illegal until this round - the other things they reference were illegal the past couple of rounds.

Because of this, I won't make a common sense argument, but I don't think that anyone closed this round due to roid farming has the gall to stand up here and say they didn't know it was illegal. The better way to look at it is - the option to plead that way was available to people but everyone deleted so far did not know they had it, since they truly thought their actions were illegal. If they try to retroactively take that approach, it will be rather obvious that they are trying to weasel out of the punishment they already accepted.
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Unread 7 Apr 2003, 02:54   #75
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Quote:
Originally posted by ComradeRob
The user agreement isn't actually posted anywhere
You can either go and look at it on the signup screen:
http://jpaweb01.planetarion.com/create_new_account.fcg

OR

You can read it on the portal:
http://main.planetarion.com/portal/news.php?id=147
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Unread 7 Apr 2003, 03:23   #76
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Quote:
Originally posted by A2
You can either go and look at it on the signup screen:
http://jpaweb01.planetarion.com/create_new_account.fcg

OR

You can read it on the portal:
http://main.planetarion.com/portal/news.php?id=147
So what, its not only Rabba+friends who can claim to be dumb.
ComradeRob can claim to be blind, so he havent posibly read it.. just an exampel.
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Unread 7 Apr 2003, 03:34   #77
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Quote:
Originally posted by A2

You can read it on the portal:
http://main.planetarion.com/portal/news.php?id=147
Where is the link to that on the main portal page?

Just admit it - the rules documentation has been very poor until now, and is still not really adequate.
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“They were totally confused,” said the birdman, whose flying suit gives him a passing resemblance to Buzz Lightyear in Toy Story. “The authorities said that I was an unregistered aircraft and to fly, you need a licence. I told them, ‘No. To fly, you need wings’.”
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Unread 7 Apr 2003, 03:42   #78
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Quote:
Originally posted by ComradeRob
Where is the link to that on the main portal page?
Since you've pointed out that the link is missing I've added it under "Help and Support". Just under the link to the rules which were posted recently and linked a few mins after they were posted.

It's also accessible on the Announcements (at the link I posted earlier) or 1 click from www.planetarion.com (click on Announcements and it's currently 2nd item down) and via the signup link.

Better?
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Unread 7 Apr 2003, 05:13   #79
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just wondering....

a friend ship-farmed in r7. he get caught and deleted after a word with Spinner. So, why didnt he get reopened? New rules? Was he to small and unknown to the peeps (no backup from the boards)?

just wondering.....
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Unread 7 Apr 2003, 05:34   #80
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kalle
just wondering....

a friend ship-farmed in r7. he get caught and deleted after a word with Spinner. So, why didnt he get reopened? New rules? Was he to small and unknown to the peeps (no backup from the boards)?

just wondering.....
What are the events surrounding his deletion? I remember that ship farming was a problem in r7 because it was legal and a prominent galaxy was employing it to outgrow the galaxies they did not want to attack.

R7 was chock full of planets deleted for asteroid farming, but I was under the impression that Rabbagast's closure in Round 9 was the first for ship farming.
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Unread 7 Apr 2003, 05:51   #81
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like i said. i was closed because he ship-farmed. a friend of him sent him vultures and other stuff. they were in 2 different gals. someone saw that reported him and he got deleted after 2 days!!! without too much asking of Spinner. his fault that he hadnt done the ship-farming in a professional way like others.
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Unread 7 Apr 2003, 06:21   #82
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kalle
like i said. i was closed because he ship-farmed. a friend of him sent him vultures and other stuff. they were in 2 different gals. someone saw that reported him and he got deleted after 2 days!!! without too much asking of Spinner. his fault that he hadnt done the ship-farming in a professional way like others.
I find this hard to believe, as ship farming was legal in r7. Are you sure that he was not deleted for asteroid farming - that your friend with the vultures did not give him some roids as well?
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Unread 7 Apr 2003, 09:29   #83
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Quote:
Originally posted by G.K Zhukov
So what, its not only Rabba+friends who can claim to be dumb.
ComradeRob can claim to be blind, so he havent posibly read it.. just an exampel.
you aren't allowed to sign up without reading it (or have it read to you)

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I have read and accepted the User Agreement above, made sure all information submitted is correct, and understand that my account can be closed or deleted with no warning should it contain invalid or false information.
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Unread 7 Apr 2003, 09:43   #84
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Quote:
Originally posted by N0VA
I find this hard to believe, as ship farming was legal in r7. Are you sure that he was not deleted for asteroid farming - that your friend with the vultures did not give him some roids as well?
no roid donations.
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Unread 7 Apr 2003, 11:01   #85
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it doesn't matter
we know what happens to cheaters

eclipse, the universe's police, will dispense justice!
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Unread 7 Apr 2003, 11:51   #86
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Quote:
Originally posted by Spoonman
it doesn't matter
we know what happens to cheaters
u mean 'cheaters' with roids surely ?!?
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Unread 7 Apr 2003, 12:48   #87
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Originally posted by -CP-
Don't be a retard Zhil.. now ship farming has been added to the official planetarion rules.. Not even you could get out of that one..
ofc he can as they been added to the rules after he paid for em...meaning it isn't 'legal'

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I havent seen anything this completely stupid since round 2 and Spinner changed the launch cost for Thieves in order to "help the smaller people". Whatever interest I did have of playing next round has been ruined by seeing the type of incompetence that the people who control the game has. Its a shame you guys couldnt chip in a few bucks to keep Zeus. Say what you want about him, but this crap wouldnt have happened if Zeus was around.
Amen.
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Unread 7 Apr 2003, 14:44   #88
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Originally posted by virogenesis
[B ]True..but in the rules it does not cover this fully & u can just say you was unaware of this. [/b]
it doesn't state in the rules bank robbing is illgal either, but u and i both know it is.

Hacking comes under your isp usage agreement, and therefore by doing it you'd be breaching your contract with your isp as well as breaking all kinds of provacy rules, aka been very very naughty and yes, u'd be arrested - no need 2 fill them user agreements none of us read with bs that is already covered elsewhere.
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Unread 7 Apr 2003, 14:50   #89
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point is .. he may be a "proven cheat" etc .. but when he agreed to the user agreement it didnt outlaw ship farming .. (something which was previously "legal!" - so therefore his possible naiveity meant he had no clue he was breaking the rules, simply tacking on ammendments to user agreements mid round does not work as it isnt what "we" agreed to, and hence we shouldnt be expected to obide by it. (though ethically one would)

i dont support cheating in anyway, or am in no way affliated with wp etc .. but he hasnt actually broke legislation, i know some ppl are saying "it was said in creators hour on blah blah blah date" - but believe it or not we dont actually all read ch logs cos they r mainly full of useless bullsh*t. ([sarcasm]and we'd much rather be spending our time farming ships[/sarcam]

my point is .. i may not agree with ship farming, etc .. (or any means of "cheating") but rabba didnt actually do anything wrong in accordance to the rules he agreed to.
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Unread 7 Apr 2003, 20:59   #90
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Quote:
it doesn't state in the rules bank robbing is illgal either, but u and i both know it is.
uhm I think robbing the bank is forbidden by the law....
I dont think the law will contain anything about ship farming do you???
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Unread 7 Apr 2003, 21:05   #91
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rappie
I dont think the law will contain anything about ship farming do you???
Closest I could find
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Unread 7 Apr 2003, 21:16   #92
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Yeah, Im not english but if I understand it well there's no such thing about ship farming right
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