Divs at work

[Phang]

Originally Posted by roadrunner_0

the moment that leshy said 'i didn't mean the comment the way you interpreted it' you should have taken him at his word and dropped it

yes, but this is doubtful because leshy usually makes good posts and that post was shit if yahwe was right and worse if leshy is right - posting to say 'there was a post that was nothing like yahwe and bore none of the hallmarks of yahwe but i thought it was yahwe' is completely pointless unless the objective was to make himself look like an utter ****ing moron.

[Yahwe]

Originally Posted by Tomkat

You speak as if we all thought nod was cool before he did that, rr

And yahwe - pipe down. I gave 5 perfectly valid reasons, as per your requirements. Hush now.

5 desperate reasons which wouldn't convince the klu klux clan.

I take aryn as the objective observer:

ok.. i thought since i haven't read this thread i could have an unbiased view. so i read that post yahwe. that one post you've just linked to. and honestly there is no connection to you. if you're referring to the 'i'm gay' i only connected it to you after i remembered that the point of reading that post was to look for a connection. that post out of context has absolutely nothing to do with you.

since she didn't even understand why she was reading the post, even she noticed that there is nothing to link it to me. nothing but one thing.

I love the way that someone who didn't even know what occam's razor was yesterday has today decided that it is totally irrelevant.

after Aryn read leshy's post and understood the context she said [16:42] <Aryn> i see your point yahwe

given she was objective and unbias. i'm sticking with her as the basic example.

It really is glaringly obvious and hence begs question of the motivation behind those who pretend they can't see it.

[Yahwe]

Originally Posted by _ryzekiel_

Poster A posts a crap joke.
Poster B overreacted possibly(seemingly) due to personal insecurities
Poster A defends crap joke.
Poster B continues to overreact.
Other posters get involved to continue the cycle of overreactions and nonsense.

Edit: I meant to add: Arguments over meagre details and overreactions over misconceptions are slightly pointless.

I understand that some people do not consider homophobia to be an important issue.

White people didn't used to think Racism was an important issue.

[roadrunner_0]

ah, but the point leshy has been trying to make since the start of the thread is that he DIDNT even post a joke, the fact that you interpreted it as a joke is irrelevant as as soon as he said 'i didn't mean it like that' the whole argument should have been over and done with.

for ****s sake

[Yahwe]

[17:43] <nodrog-food> i generally enjoy defending absurd positions just to be annoying, but theres no way even I could possible argue that autisms post looked like yahwes so tomkat is being dumb
[17:43] <nodrog-food>

[17:45] <nodrog-food> i think the other problem is that it is you who made the post
[17:46] <nodrog-food> if any of the other gdhomos had pointed out his implied homophobia there wouldn't have been such an outcry
[17:46] <nodrog-food> btu people just fundamentally dont want to admit you could be right

this is the first time in history that gordon and i have been in agreement.

[jerome]

Oh don't get me wrong, I personally find homophobia offensive if the tone is malevolent. I just don't see it Leshy's post in a malevolent manner. You just seem to take it in an all the more personal manner than I admittedly, presume Leshy meant it - this provides you with both a "win" and a "loss" in the argument. Leshy's cases for defence for his post is obviously quite appalling in the sense but the level this has degenerated to is horrible due to your continued hounding of the initial post.

To me, I just see it as a misconceived post - but that isn't only your fault ofcourse, I am not trying to excuse away apparent homophobia by it, maybe I've been conditioned to being more at ease with homophobic remarks therefore see you as overreacting but unfortunately, that is the way I see it. Then again, knowing Leshy, I am also fairly certain that he just didn't mean it that way due to knowledge of his character and personality.

Edit: That being said, I'm leaning towards your side of the case due to just being on the side of stamping homophobia (not because I believe Leshy is homophobic or shown such tendencies in a serious manner in that post.) Nevertheless, it is undeniable that you both have been drawing blanks in terms of proper argumentation due to desperation of a requirement to persuade.

[Yahwe]

Originally Posted by _ryzekiel_

Oh don't get me wrong, I personally find homophobia offensive if the tone is malevolent. I just don't see it Leshy's post in a malevolent manner. You just seem to take it in an all the more personal manner than I admittedly, presume Leshy meant it - this provides you with both a "win" and a "loss" in the argument. Leshy's cases for defence for his post is obviously quite appalling in the sense but the level this has degenerated to is horrible due to your continued hounding of the initial post.

To me, I just see it as a misconceived post - but that isn't only your fault ofcourse, I am not trying to excuse away homophobia by it, maybe I've been conditioned to being more at ease with homophobic remarks therefore see you as overreacting but unfortunately, that is the way I see it. I'm leaning towards your side of the case but it is undeniable that you both have been drawing blanks in terms of proper argumentation due to desperation of a requirement to persuade.

it's very difficult to argue with somebody who keeps denying a basic truth. so i accept your criticism that i lack any argumentation. all i can basically do is keep trying to demonstrate the obvious homophobia: nothing constructive can be done while he and a handful of (let's face it) people who don't like me anyway keep denying the obvious.

so my apologies if i'm boring you. i just decided yesterday that i was fed up with this kind of homophobia: i suppose i snapped.

[jerome]

Note the edit to my post you just quoted.

[dda]

Sigh!

Leshy, Your post, however intended, could easily be read as homophobic.

Yahwe, Leshy didn't mean it.

Leshy, If you hurt someone's feelings you might want to make an apology that doesn't include a defense of the offending remark.

Yahwe, you have made your point, if you keep going on even the other gays on GD will become homophobic.

Everyone else, so what do you think, was Riona an ass (American for arse for the person who negreped me for using ass in another thread) when he treated the girl like shit just for trying to be friendly?

[Leshy]

Originally Posted by dda

Leshy, If you hurt someone's feelings you might want to make an apology that doesn't include a defense of the offending remark.

I already said on page one that if my comment somehow offended Yahwe, that I was willing to apologize. He ignored that remark, went on with his tirade about how I made a blatantly homophobic post and any other explanation than his cannot possibly be right, and started insulting people himself. Too bad.

I'll post one short synopsis of what happened, and that will be it for my post in this thread.

• I'm casually browsing GD, and scrolling down, reading a thread, and see a post scrolling into view which I think is Yahwe's, due to it's unique look of short single lines with double spacing. Whether I was justified in doing so, whether I wasn't paying enough attention or whatever isn't even the issue, the only thing that matters is that I did. Whether anyone else mistook that post for one by Yahwe, I don't know. Hey, perhaps that's even why I posted the question I did!
• I start reading the post, and note that at this point I think I'm reading a post by Yahwe.
• I read "i found this comical, but then i'm gay". I think, still thinking to be reading a post by Yahwe, "Erm, what? It is correct, but why would he be saying it bluntly like that?"
• I read the rest of the post and see the "i c" and "coldplay r cool" or whatever, and think to myself, "is this some sort of comedy post i'm not getting, because this is not what Yahwe normally posts like"
• My eyes scroll to the left hand side and see a completely unknown name. I think "Oh right, that explains a lot. Weird moment there."
• I post my by now infamous post.

Was it a high quality post? Nope. Was it a joke? Nope. Was it a dig at Yahwe? Nope. Was it a dig at homosexuals? Nope. Was it an utterly shit post the likes of which have never been seen before? Nope.

It was simply an off-hand remark, the likes of which are to be found on GD on pretty much a daily, or rather, hourly basis, with no hidden intention or deeper meaning. But apparently Yahwe somehow feels that his bi- or homosexuality is the only possible thing defining him on this forum, and extends that logic to everyone else, so yeah, I must have been somehow insulting him for his sexual preference, ignoring the fact that I have no ill will towards him or any homophobia.

[dda]

Originally Posted by Leshy

Oh, ffs. Stop pretending to be victimized.

If I was going to do a "Huh huh Yahwe is a homosexual" joke for some inane reason, it would a) actually be a joke, and b) be funny. The only thing that happened here, was that due to the post formatting being pretty much identical to yours, I was under the initial assumption that I was reading a post made by you.

When I read the "i'm gay" part, I was very confused because it's not something you would normally if ever say in such a post, although it did not completely dissuade me from being under the impression that it was still your post. The rest of the post such as the "i c" and the "o btw coldplay rule" made me think for a second that you had made some sort of very strange "comedy-sarcasm post" that I wasn't getting, before I turned my eyes left and read that it was someone completely unknown.

That is what I commented upon, not the fact that the word "gay" was in the post. If you took some sort of offense to what I said, I'm more than willing to apologize, but the next time you feel the need to read things into posts that aren't there or victimize yourself, leave me out of it, thanks.

Appologies are usually a tad more concilliatory.

Eample: "I'm sorry I hurt your feelings. I didn't mean to."

As you get older you get better at spotting the ingrediants of a good, solid apology.

[Leshy]

Originally Posted by dda

As you get older you get better at spotting the ingrediants of a good, solid apology.

And if you age beyond that, you get better at spotting what is an actual apology, and what is not.

[dda]

What do "ffs" mean. I have seen this a fair amount and haven't figured out what they mean.

[Leshy]

Originally Posted by dda

What do "ffs" mean. I have seen this a fair amount and haven't figured out what they mean.

Generally, "for ****'s sake".

[Yahwe]

it means 'for **** sake'

you use it in contexts like "ffs leshy is getting desperate at pretending he wasn't being homophobic"
or "ffs leshy's argument has more holes than a swiss cheese"

[Leshy]

I like how you're accusing me of cheap shots

[Yahwe]

no i've been accusing you of making a homophobic comment

I'm sorry for the confusion. perhaps this misunderstanding has been why you keep being unable to admit the obvious?

[roadrunner_0]

Originally Posted by Leshy

I already said on page one that if my comment somehow offended Yahwe, that I was willing to apologize. He ignored that remark, went on with his tirade about how I made a blatantly homophobic post and any other explanation than his cannot possibly be right, and started insulting people himself. Too bad.

I'll post one short synopsis of what happened, and that will be it for my post in this thread.

• I'm casually browsing GD, and scrolling down, reading a thread, and see a post scrolling into view which I think is Yahwe's, due to it's unique look of short single lines with double spacing. Whether I was justified in doing so, whether I wasn't paying enough attention or whatever isn't even the issue, the only thing that matters is that I did. Whether anyone else mistook that post for one by Yahwe, I don't know. Hey, perhaps that's even why I posted the question I did!
• I start reading the post, and note that at this point I think I'm reading a post by Yahwe.
• I read "i found this comical, but then i'm gay". I think, still thinking to be reading a post by Yahwe, "Erm, what? It is correct, but why would he be saying it bluntly like that?"
• I read the rest of the post and see the "i c" and "coldplay r cool" or whatever, and think to myself, "is this some sort of comedy post i'm not getting, because this is not what Yahwe normally posts like"
• My eyes scroll to the left hand side and see a completely unknown name. I think "Oh right, that explains a lot. Weird moment there."
• I post my by now infamous post.

Was it a high quality post? Nope. Was it a joke? Nope. Was it a dig at Yahwe? Nope. Was it a dig at homosexuals? Nope. Was it an utterly shit post the likes of which have never been seen before? Nope.

It was simply an off-hand remark, the likes of which are to be found on GD on pretty much a daily, or rather, hourly basis, with no hidden intention or deeper meaning. But apparently Yahwe somehow feels that his bi- or homosexuality is the only possible thing defining him on this forum, and extends that logic to everyone else, so yeah, I must have been somehow insulting him for his sexual preference, ignoring the fact that I have no ill will towards him or any homophobia.

lets just quote this post where leshy explains himself again as yahwe has either lost the plot or is suffering from selective vision

[Embroglio]

the thread title is a fantastic description of people's involvement in this thread

[Marilyn Manson]

Can't people just get along?

[Demon Dave]

Originally Posted by Marilyn Manson

Can't people just get along?

You know, about 2000 years ago some other guy said that. Do you know what happened to him? He got nailed to a tree, that's what happened to him

[Ebany]

Now, I dont know how many others here can say they have met both the antagonists in this argument. I had been determinedly keeping out of it. But enough is enough.

I cannot belive Leshy would make a homophobic comment as Steven is reading into his post. I have read over it a number of times, and I can see Leshys point about the style of post. While Aryn sees your point Stevem, different people focus on different things. I dont recall seeing it as a post by yourself, but I dont notice any posts as being by any specific person, except Mark - and thats generally as I'm just checking if he is online.

Steven - I brought this up for discussion at the dinner table tonight, where people know Leshy as much as you do. Given a description of the situation it was generally considered that it wasnt homophobc. I am prepared to consider one of these as biased as he did compain about the fact you didnt sleep with him. However, we had another bi guy, a bi girl., and a range of other options around the table, and no-one saw a problem with it.

While maybe it was a case of Leshy thinking a post may have been from you because it mentioned being gay, what exactly is bad about this? As an alternative, we have a friend who comes round, who, as it happens, has a very camp voice. Should I hear a camp voice sounding like his in the house, I am inclined to go downstairs to say hello. On finding it wasnt him, I may say 'Oh, sorry, I though 'x' was here, I guess I was wong' Yes its unnesccesary, but I may feel like saying it anyway,

Only the person making a comment can say what was imlied behind it afterwards. and maybe they will try to cover embarrasment by lying. But,. from, previous evisence of Leshys posting, and having met him, I cant imagine him making a random homophobic post.

Steven - I think you are being miles too sensitive, and not accepting when someone says 'sorry thats how you read it, bui thats really not what I meant' . God knows there are enough homophobic people out there for you to campaign against, by pissing off those who really dont mind you will just increase the problem (juct check feminism for THAT problem).

Leshy - It was a dull thing to decide to post. He has a point there.

Now can all of you please stop rowing about it? I usually have a miraculous ability to kill threads. If this happens today I will be happy instead of sad.

[dda]

Originally Posted by Demon Dave

You know, about 2000 years ago some other guy said that. Do you know what happened to him? He got nailed to a tree, that's what happened to him

There was one in the US, Rodney King, he got about $4 million for it.

[Marilyn Manson]

Originally Posted by Demon Dave

You know, about 2000 years ago some other guy said that. Do you know what happened to him? He got nailed to a tree, that's what happened to him

I wouldn't mind being nailed against a tree.

[Yahwe]

Originally Posted by Ebany

Now, I dont know how many others here can say they have met both the antagonists in this argument. I had been determinedly keeping out of it.

surprisingly perhaps, as a lawyer i look at what we call the evidence rather than someone's reputation.

the two posts are clear and in black and white.

all the rest is irrelevant, leshy's good character, his charm, his urbane grace: totally irrelevant.

all "men shall deal unadvisably sometimes"

the reason this thread persists is his refusal to make a simple admission and his desire to instead make complicated and convoluted attempts to excuse his actions.
It has often been said that if jeffrey archer had simply said "yes. i admit it. i had an affair" he would have gained popularity. instead the web of lies and excuses he created destroyed him.

all i want is an admission of what is blindingly clear (and i thank those who have bothered to look at the evidence first: because they all seem to agree with me)

I am not saying it makes leshy evil. i am not saying that he meant to cause what he has caused. I am saying that his homophobic motive was obvious.

and that posts like that will end.

[dda]

Originally Posted by Ebany

I usually have a miraculous ability to kill threads. If this happens today I will be happy instead of sad.

R. I. P.

[Nodrog]

Originally Posted by Ebany

I brought this up for discussion at the dinner table tonight.

[Yahwe]

Look

i'm fed up to the back teeth with people wading into this thread saying "but he can't have done because leshy is normally so nice".

as if wishing can undo something. as if hope can correct mistakes.

i have always held leshy in the highest regard. i had planned to go on doing so.

This is a specific matter, a specific time that leshy made a mistake. now we all do that. but this time leshy's mistake wasn't spelling. it wasn't a factual error. it was choosing to make a post on the grounds of homosexuality in a way that said homosexuality was a thing to be mocked. a lesser thing. hence that homosexuals are lesser people.

I decided to point out that mistake because i happen to value the openness and freedom this community has so far offered to homosexuals: men and women who face prejudice on a day to day basis.

the only thing that matters is whether my allegation is true or not.

1) read this and ask yourself to judge objectively (forget that it is leshy we are talking about) if you honestly think that post looks like one of mine.
2) the read this and ask yourself what that post meant.

If you look at the evidence you will see what so many have found blindingly obvious.

[Leshy]

Originally Posted by Yahwe

read this

You are once again ignoring the fact that I figured the post to be yours before reading it.

Me: "Hey, I looked at a post, and thought it was Yahwe's, but then I read it and was confused because it wasn't anything like Yahwe would post."
You: "If you read the post you can clearly see that it was not written by me!"

Good argumentation there. And the only one who keeps on rambling about a "blinding obvious" fact is you. But hey, as long as there are more windmills to fight for you, right?

[Yahwe]

Originally Posted by Leshy

You are once again ignoring the fact that I figured the post to be yours before reading it.

no one forces you to write a post about every inane thought that goes through your head.

not only does no one force you, but you get time to think about what you want to post

you chose to post what you did

you thought it would be funny to make the comparison for one reason and one reason only

[Yahwe]

all i'm saying is that that reason was unacceptable and that choice you made was a mistake

[Leshy]

Originally Posted by Yahwe

no one forces you to write a post about every inane thought that goes through your head.

If only that criterium were continually used, we'd have much better forums. But alas we don't, and people occasionally do. Deal with it.

you thought it would be funny to make the comparison for one reason and one reason only

Stop being so damn arrogant as to presume to know what other people think or do.

[Yahwe]

Originally Posted by Leshy

Stop being so damn arrogant as to presume to know what other people think or do.

clever

good distraction value

takes away from the issue rather doesn't it.

but then

it's now 3 pages of you dancing round what is really a very simple truth. lots of long words. lots of loooooooooonnnnnngggggg explanations and excuses. its perfectly obvious. how many times must i cut and paste those links before you bother to remember what you did?

i understand that i drew attention to it. i understand that if i had just pm'd you you probably would have deleted the post

but don't you see? it's not about you and me. it's about certain behavior being unacceptable.

stop being personally offended. stop distracting. stop making up more and more elaborate lies. stop.

accept that you made a mistake.

join with me and say that even though you did it, you still think homophobia is wrong and you made a mistake

[MrL_JaKiri]

Originally Posted by Yahwe

no 'mid post' meant that you were midway through replying to 'me' as you saw it and then realised you mistake.

thank god we have http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam's_Razor to silence that argument.

of course it is possible that you were genuinely confused. that you didn't bother to read the content, or look at the nick name, that the luminous blue signiture went unseen and that you didn't notice the lack of green blobs.

but that requires an awful lot of assumptions needed to support your conclusion.

mine requires only one. you saw the word gay by a poster, and made a bad homophobic dig at me.

but you carry on; protesting too much.

Stop being an idiot, stop misusing Occam's Razor, stop being quite so unbelieveably arrogant.

it's now 3 pages of you dancing round what is really a very simple truth. lots of long words. lots of loooooooooonnnnnngggggg explanations and excuses. its perfectly obvious. how many times must i cut and paste those links before you bother to remember what you did?

[JamMak]

Originally Posted by Yahwe

all i want is an admission of what is blindingly clear

Sure, Leshy could apologise for somehow offending you with his comment.

But you can't tell someone what they were thinking when posting, then force them to apologise for those intentions that you decided on. That's just madness

[Dante Hicks]

Originally Posted by Yahwe

goodness. gay rights not taken seriously. just as well i feel like fighting for them then.

I'm not really sure what you mean by "rights" here.

[Phang]

Originally Posted by Dante Hicks

I'm not really sure what you mean by "rights" here.

misuse of a term, but in his defence it's an awkward phrase. "gay equality" would fit better but sounds stupid.

[MrL_JaKiri]

Originally Posted by Phang

misuse of a term, but in his defence it's an awkward phrase. "gay equality" would fit better but sounds stupid.

I'm not quite sure that he really wants equality, it sounds more like he wants superiority.

[Marilyn Manson]

Al things considered, I think it's time for this to come to an end.