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Unread 28 Feb 2014, 17:37   #1
Fuyu
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Lock alliance join/leave in final week

I propose that alliance joins and leaves are locked for the final week of every round. I feel that having people out of tag join an ally at the last moment is exploitation and shouldn't be allowed.

This is to prevent the following:

A) 2 smaller alliances merging in the final week of the round.

B) Prevent spies and traitors from nerfing an ally's score by leaving at the last moment to deny a win.

C) Preventing people from leaving one alliance to join another for the win.

D) Hiding members outside of tag to avoid war attacks then joining up at the last moment for score boost.
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Unread 28 Feb 2014, 19:51   #2
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Re: Lock alliance join/leave in final week

A) Alliances already cannot merge past tick 672, and can't grow larger than 40 members in the process.

B) Sniffing out spies and traitors is part of the metagame. Don't remove it.

C) If you leave alliance A when you have 5m score and join alliance B, that score is not added to alliance B's score. Only score gained after you left alliance A is added. There is also a 48 tick waiting period during which someone who leaves a tag cannot join another, giving alliance A plenty of time to take its revenge.

D) Hiding members outside of your tag has a severe penalty: you cannot defend them at -1 tick travel time, and they cannot defend planets in your tag at all. This is possible if planets are in tags with a NAP, but still without the -1 tick travel time reduction. If your intel is good, sniffing out these planets should be a top priority, because they're easy targets.

While I understand that it sucks if you get overtaken by a recruiting tag in the last day of the round, there are plenty of disadvantages to using this as a strategy. A ban is unnecessary.
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The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.

Last edited by Mzyxptlk; 1 Mar 2014 at 11:45. Reason: Thanks, Rein.
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Unread 28 Feb 2014, 19:53   #3
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Re: Lock alliance join/leave in final week

This has been suggested a few times and should be implemented.

A and C is not possible anyway but B and D is an issue.

if you want to win then you should show your cards before appoco flicks the last week switch so people can fight it out.
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Unread 28 Feb 2014, 19:58   #4
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Re: Lock alliance join/leave in final week

Quote:
C) If you leave alliance A when you have 5m score and join alliance B, none of that 5m is added to alliance B's score. Only score gained after alliance A is added. There is also a 48 tick waiting period during which someone who leaves a tag cannot join another, giving alliance A plenty of time to take its revenge.
The penalty doesn't apply to those out of tag though. So if you have a fort gal with members out of tag, unallied, you can hide your true numbers. In fact, you could bypass the alliance size altogether and get an alliance win by having however many players you want out of tag and then at the end of the round add the highest ones to fill up.

The fact of the matter is, alliance score should only count score acquired while in the alliance. Otherwise, lock joins/leaves in the final week imo. I do commend those that play unallied out of tag though.
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Unread 28 Feb 2014, 20:06   #5
Mzyxptlk
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Re: Lock alliance join/leave in final week

I had it the wrong way around. When you're in a tag, you can only defend people in that tag (with ETA advantage), and all the tags it's napped with (without ETA advantage). When you're not in a tag, you can defend everybody (without ETA advantage). The point stands, though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuyu View Post
The penalty doesn't apply to those out of tag though. So if you have a fort gal with members out of tag, unallied, you can hide your true numbers. In fact, you could bypass the alliance size altogether and get an alliance win by having however many players you want out of tag and then at the end of the round add the highest ones to fill up.
That's largely covered by my reply to your point D.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuyu View Post
The fact of the matter is, alliance score should only count score acquired while in the alliance.
There is something to be said for this, though it discourages "legitimate" recruitment as well. Anyone you recruit midround is not going to contribute to your alliance's score.
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The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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Unread 28 Feb 2014, 21:46   #6
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Re: Lock alliance join/leave in final week

Im under the impression that people who have applied to tag have their incommings appear on the alliance defence page as well. So they can be actively defended (even without -1 eta thingy) without being in tag.
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Unread 28 Feb 2014, 22:13   #7
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Re: Lock alliance join/leave in final week

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiba View Post
Im under the impression that people who have applied to tag have their incommings appear on the alliance defence page as well. So they can be actively defended (even without -1 eta thingy) without being in tag.
No, only people within the tag have their incoming show up on alliance def page, 99% sure of that.
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Unread 28 Feb 2014, 23:13   #8
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Re: Lock alliance join/leave in final week

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
I had it the wrong way around. When you're in a tag, you can only defend people in that tag (with ETA advantage), and all the tags it's napped with (without ETA advantage). When you're not in a tag, you can defend everybody (without ETA advantage). The point stands, though.
You had it correct the first time around. You need to be either in the alliance or napped to the alliance you want to defend. Planets without a tag can only defend in galaxy / others without a tag.

Last edited by Patrikc; 1 Mar 2014 at 03:57. Reason: missed a /
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Unread 28 Feb 2014, 23:28   #9
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Re: Lock alliance join/leave in final week

Quote:
Originally Posted by RexDrax View Post
No, only people within the tag have their incoming show up on alliance def page, 99% sure of that.
I have seen Vikings/TGV have to delete calls of applicants early game Rex. Im just speaking from what i have seen. Maybe its an option you can turn on and off in the HC commands?
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Unread 28 Feb 2014, 23:56   #10
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Re: Lock alliance join/leave in final week

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrikc View Post
Planets without a tag can only defend in galaxy others without a tag.
Are you sure about this?
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The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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Unread 1 Mar 2014, 00:06   #11
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Re: Lock alliance join/leave in final week

Seems my / went missing as I meant to say "can only defend in galaxy OR others without a tag". So yes, planets out of tag can't defend planets in any alliance outside of their galaxy.

"Fleet "Beta": Defending a planet out of your galaxy in an alliance not yours is forbidden."
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Unread 1 Mar 2014, 04:40   #12
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Re: Lock alliance join/leave in final week

Imo Faceless tactics to win was legit. Spore was naive in not taking this scenario in consideration. As it was stated here, hide out of tag planets is not free of risks.
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Unread 1 Mar 2014, 11:25   #13
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Re: Lock alliance join/leave in final week

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
Are you sure about this?
i can clarify this defence issue.

1) if you are in a tag ingame you can only be defended by other people in the tag, ingame napped alliances and galmates (and vice-verser)

2) if you have no tag ingame, you can only defend people that are also in no tag ingame and galmates (and vice-verser)

my view on this issue, leave it. there's plenty of punishment for not being in tag. i wish people would stop trying to remove any form of strategy/tactic just because they havent thought of it. it's the removal of these things that is making a dull game even more boring.
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Unread 1 Mar 2014, 11:39   #14
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Re: Lock alliance join/leave in final week

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
A) Alliances already cannot merge past tick 336
Sorry mz but this is wrong. The last tick you can start an alliance merge is 672. I do agree with the rest of your post though.
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Unread 1 Mar 2014, 11:45   #15
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Re: Lock alliance join/leave in final week

Never apologize for fixing an error. Updated my post.
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The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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Unread 1 Mar 2014, 12:14   #16
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Re: Lock alliance join/leave in final week

This is obviously reactive based on faceless last round.

My thoughts are if you choose to play the whole round with fewer members, fewer def fleets, more chance people will quit and not having someone to replace them with in the other 15 members not counting, then the advantage should be you can add planets last minute to get a score jump.

Don't remove another facet of the game and standardise the way you have to play further, please.
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Unread 1 Mar 2014, 12:16   #17
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Re: Lock alliance join/leave in final week

For those with a short memory, Evolution did this in r37 to snatch the victory from the clutches of ND.
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Unread 1 Mar 2014, 12:49   #18
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Re: Lock alliance join/leave in final week

lets not limit very limited amount of different strategies in this game even further. Everyone knows that tags below 50 members have a potential of a big score increase, and its smth competitors would need to deal with before they get in the range of winning.
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Unread 1 Mar 2014, 16:25   #19
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Re: Lock alliance join/leave in final week

Oh noes change the game because an alliance that didn't have enough planets in tag added some to win
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Unread 1 Mar 2014, 16:27   #20
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Re: Lock alliance join/leave in final week

people always want stuff to be changed when someone does something out of the ordinary :/
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Unread 9 Mar 2014, 16:54   #21
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Re: Lock alliance join/leave in final week

I know it has upset some people but it has been done successfully in 2 previous rounds (ascendancy did it I think). Last round at least one top alliance knew the alliance of basically everyone in the game before the round end. Happy to have discussions around defence limitations in and out of tag but otherwise I do not personally feel a need to try and block this tactic.
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