Single targetting to return.. Opinions!!!

[Mzyxptlk]

People who aren't around to arrange defence will do worse than people who are, regardless of the stats. If you truly want to make it easier for less active players to do well, you need to make sure that defence has less emphasis. Round 16 was a good example of a round in which newbies could do well. It was my first round of PA, I was in ROCK and ended top 70 or so. The reason I did so well was because defence had almost no relevance whatsoever.

Note that I'm not suggesting a return to the formulae of round 16, I merely used it as an example to illustrate a point: attacking is not what separates the top player from the newbie; defending is.

[Kaiba]

Originally Posted by Wishmaster

Dunkel, its like in any RPG. A lvl 10 cant kill a lvl 80 or whatever.

It just shouldnt be possible for someone 1/10 of someones value to roid him if he has built a proper fleet.
And seriously, who the **** are those who build 3-4 ships? FR/DE fortress is fking dull and I ve said before that it shouldnt be possible to cover only with 1 class. GET A NEW ARGUMENT.

WTF is the problem with being "immune" vs people alot smaller than you? Do u think its fantastically fun to roid same race all round, cause they have a MASSIVE hole against ur race? I dont think thats fun. If u wanna just send 1 ship at someone all round, and find that entertaining, then **** you, go ahead and have ur fun. I wont be playing such rounds however.

Surely if your a 'lvl 80' player as you like to call yourself then you will have an ally which will have ships that can defend your gap in cover. Seeing as the top players are normally from the top allainces this is almost guarenteed.

As far as i see it single targetting put more emphasis on teamwork and cooperation within allainces and galaxies. Which is process should lead to a better understanding of each other within the allaince and galaxy making your iRc/game experience more fulfilling.

Why should it be so important to be immune to all incs in a game that revolves around teamplay - unless you are a selfish person who is only out for yourself and not intrested in working with your friends and team mates

[DunkelGraf]

Originally Posted by Wishmaster

Dunkel, its like in any RPG. A lvl 10 cant kill a lvl 80 or whatever.

It just shouldnt be possible for someone 1/10 of someones value to roid him if he has built a proper fleet.
And seriously, who the **** are those who build 3-4 ships? FR/DE fortress is fking dull and I ve said before that it shouldnt be possible to cover only with 1 class. GET A NEW ARGUMENT.

WTF is the problem with being "immune" vs people alot smaller than you? Do u think its fantastically fun to roid same race all round, cause they have a MASSIVE hole against ur race? I dont think thats fun. If u wanna just send 1 ship at someone all round, and find that entertaining, then **** you, go ahead and have ur fun. I wont be playing such rounds however.

Beetle 1,706,000
Locust 54,000
Viper 360,000
Widow 360,000


Cutlass 1,606,873
Corsair 17,206
Smuggler 2,172
Brigand 2,453
Marauder 90,043
Clipper 1,975
Pirate 69,787

Beetle 1,500,000
Viper 200,000
Scorpion 1
Scarab 160,000
Guardian 100,000

Beetle 1,850,000
Locust 100,000
Viper 250,000
Widow 200,002

Cutlass 1,627,989
Smuggler 20,653
Marauder 119,383
Clipper 1,525
Pirate 100,917

Cutlass 906,198
Smuggler 60,000
Marauder 50,000
Clipper 291
Pirate 100,000

Harpy 2,126,970
Phoenix 120,040
Wyvern 80,008
Dragon 125,013

Beetle 1,950,000
Locust 150,000
Viper 360,000
Widow 250,000

I could go on and scan more planets....... xan are a bit different

I find it more interesting to try to find holes in ppls fleets than just sending all your attackships at smaller ones. Guess how many of those attacks i have seen this round being in a small random gal :-)

But you are right that building just 1! ship and roiding others is shit aswell, no matter if the target is smaller or even much bigger.

Dont you think that it can be more fun having to specialize in a certain way to be able to attack planets with certain holes in their fleets than (look above) just using those 4 ships as they are the best by their stats/effectiveness, no matter what the other planet built?

I for myself like to have the possiblility to roid/counter bigger planets by sending a nice fake or stuff.......

You get my point?

[Wishmaster]

I get ur point, but thats now how ST works in reality.

Because many races will just have 1 anti fi ship, or 1 anti co or 1 anti fr or 1 anti de or 1 anti cr or 1 anti bs. And TRUST me, there will always be a race which can roid u silly no matter what you do.
In a ST round if ur getting incs, u KNOW what sort of incs u will get. OVER AND OVER AND OVER. It just gets repetative, and retarded. In a MT round, atleast you usually have several options what to build, and u can make urself immune vs smal shit fleets.

Still several ways to fake attack with the current setup...

[Zaejii]

single targeting just supports fencing and def whoring more (which in turn allows people to build that 1 ship + pod fleet and get away with never losing roids). keep in mind that this also happens in multi targeting rounds as well, its just more powerful in single targeting ones. i'm surprised none of you have realized that or pointed it out (or perhaps i've missed it in all the whining).

on another note, it was fun influencing the fleet composition of most everyone else because they got tired of only ever being roided by 1 or 2 people out of the universe.

i'm pro mixing it up personally because the politics make the round more than what shoots what.

[Korsan]

Just want to repeat my suggestion:

Every ship gets T1
T2 is free fire (all ships fire at a random class if no T1 available)

This would be a new approach to targetting and could be pretty fun imo. Just think about the stats until now.. It's been all the same either MT or ST. Dunno if there has been a round with ST + ff but I'd definately like it and I'm sure many players would like that too instead pure Single Targetting which sucks pretty much... especially at a summer round when activity is halved anyway.

[Sirad]

Originally Posted by ellonweb

Better that than being stuck with the same set of stats untweaked for like 10 rounds! O HAI PIA

:\ I am guessing you have not looked at the stats there for quite some time now
not only are the ship stats tweaked but the ship functionalities also differ.
ie in one case they mimic the borg which is kinda cool tbh stealing ships/dismantling and re creating more of their initial ships.

and that was only 3-4 rounds ago so yea, they're more proactive over there then some other places I see.

[Wishmaster]

I ve been told that pia is kinda cool now, if only they actually had people playing it, that it would be worthwhile.

Since theres only like 100 people still playing, I cba to find out though!

[Tietäjä]

Originally Posted by Zaejii

single targeting just supports fencing and def whoring more (which in turn allows people to build that 1 ship + pod fleet and get away with never losing roids). keep in mind that this also happens in multi targeting rounds as well, its just more powerful in single targeting ones.

What do you mean, single targeting supports fencing and defence whoring more? Because it makes it more difficult to have a 3-ship-fleet that essentially covers the vast majority of anything that could be thrown at you, so instead you have to whore defence fleets and build fences not to have your asteroids removed from you?

Multi-targeting if anything makes it easier to build impenetrable fortresses. Single-targeting means there's bound to be holes of some sorts in your fleet unless you very, very, very dramatically outsize your opponents. Hence it forces people to cooperate more through eh fence building and defence whoring, which is what a lot of the alliance game has always been about (eg. reducing incomings and swapping defences to cover incomings)?

[Abort]

Originally Posted by Wishmaster

In a MT round, atleast you usually have several options what to build, and u can make urself immune vs smal shit fleets.

Could you elaborate on this? Because as far as I know, MT did not bring ANY chances to stray from the path. Caths went CO/BS. Ters went FI/BS. ETD went FI/CR. Zik went FI/BS. Xan was the only interesting race this round. NOW THAT is repetitive.

The 4 races above could build 3 ships all game:

Cath: Beetle, Viper, Widow/Guardian
Ter: Harpy, Wyvern, Dragon
Etd: Lancer, Voyager, Tarantula/Bucc
Zik: Cutlass, Marauder, Pirate

Talk about repetition some more... PLEASE bring it up again.

ST succeed because it forces people to build a well rounded fleet. It encourages 200% more teamwork and in the end, doesn't allow for huge gaps on the leader board.

The only valid argument you have that isn't a completely two-sided argument is that ST allows severe imbalances to come to light. (Zik just 2 friggen rounds ago, or even Zik any round ST is around).

[Wishmaster]

Originally Posted by Abort

Could you elaborate on this? Because as far as I know, MT did not bring ANY chances to stray from the path. Caths went CO/BS. Ters went FI/BS. ETD went FI/CR. Zik went FI/BS. Xan was the only interesting race this round. NOW THAT is repetitive.

The 4 races above could build 3 ships all game:

Cath: Beetle, Viper, Widow/Guardian
Ter: Harpy, Wyvern, Dragon
Etd: Lancer, Voyager, Tarantula/Bucc
Zik: Cutlass, Marauder, Pirate

Talk about repetition some more... PLEASE bring it up again.

ST succeed because it forces people to build a well rounded fleet. It encourages 200% more teamwork and in the end, doesn't allow for huge gaps on the leader board.

The only valid argument you have that isn't a completely two-sided argument is that ST allows severe imbalances to come to light. (Zik just 2 friggen rounds ago, or even Zik any round ST is around).

They COULD build that, or they COULD build other options. They can cover vs incs with more than ONE option you idiot.
With ST you have only 1 ship which fires at fi/co/fr/de/cr/bs , or atleast you will have only 1 ships vs most of them / some of them. Hence you have no OPTIONS. In reality you just pick a race, look at stats and see what RACE you can hit. Then you can just blindly launch at them ALL ****ING round, cause without defence they cant fking stop you.

Also, I havent seen a single ter with that sort of fleet, nor have I seen any zik / etd. Nice examples though Plz post more!

[Light]

Originally Posted by Abort

Could you elaborate on this? Because as far as I know, MT did not bring ANY chances to stray from the path. Caths went CO/BS. Ters went FI/BS. ETD went FI/CR. Zik went FI/BS. Xan was the only interesting race this round. NOW THAT is repetitive.

The 4 races above could build 3 ships all game:

Cath: Beetle, Viper, Widow/Guardian
Ter: Harpy, Wyvern, Dragon
Etd: Lancer, Voyager, Tarantula/Bucc
Zik: Cutlass, Marauder, Pirate

Talk about repetition some more... PLEASE bring it up again.

ST succeed because it forces people to build a well rounded fleet. It encourages 200% more teamwork and in the end, doesn't allow for huge gaps on the leader board.

Plus you also of the option of going pure offensive and spam just one ship to attack, trying to succeed through XP and not necessarily through roids and value. Which is just another tactic, i think it was Linkie last round who did it and was top20 for the majority of the round with his pure beetle fleet.

[HaNzI]

Originally Posted by DunkelGraf

Beetle 1,706,000
Locust 54,000
Viper 360,000
Widow 360,000


Cutlass 1,606,873
Corsair 17,206
Smuggler 2,172
Brigand 2,453
Marauder 90,043
Clipper 1,975
Pirate 69,787

Beetle 1,500,000
Viper 200,000
Scorpion 1
Scarab 160,000
Guardian 100,000

Beetle 1,850,000
Locust 100,000
Viper 250,000
Widow 200,002

Cutlass 1,627,989
Smuggler 20,653
Marauder 119,383
Clipper 1,525
Pirate 100,917

Cutlass 906,198
Smuggler 60,000
Marauder 50,000
Clipper 291
Pirate 100,000

Harpy 2,126,970
Phoenix 120,040
Wyvern 80,008
Dragon 125,013

Beetle 1,950,000
Locust 150,000
Viper 360,000
Widow 250,000

I could go on and scan more planets....... xan are a bit different

I find it more interesting to try to find holes in ppls fleets than just sending all your attackships at smaller ones. Guess how many of those attacks i have seen this round being in a small random gal :-)

But you are right that building just 1! ship and roiding others is shit aswell, no matter if the target is smaller or even much bigger.

Dont you think that it can be more fun having to specialize in a certain way to be able to attack planets with certain holes in their fleets than (look above) just using those 4 ships as they are the best by their stats/effectiveness, no matter what the other planet built?

I for myself like to have the possiblility to roid/counter bigger planets by sending a nice fake or stuff.......

You get my point?

for you wish

[Linkie]

Originally Posted by Light

Plus you also of the option of going pure offensive and spam just one ship to attack, trying to succeed through XP and not necessarily through roids and value. Which is just another tactic, i think it was Linkie last round who did it and was top20 for the majority of the round with his pure beetle fleet.

I think that was Hude actually. I wasn't active enough to keep up really.

Anyway, I don't really care about all that other shit. All I know is that I find ST to be more fun than MT, and i like having fun.

[Wishmaster]

Originally Posted by HaNzI

for you wish

ye. non of them are as he stated....

[Abort]

Originally Posted by Wishmaster

ye. non of them are as he stated....

They're pretty damn close. The 3 ships that are MASSED are in everyone of those AUs...

And I understand anyone "could" build anything, thats true in both ST and MT rounds... some races in ST round have multiple anti fi ships.... and in MT some races have multiple anti fi ships... wtf is your point?

Please leave the childish insults out of it please. "idiot".


Face it, you want to play MT because you are a solo'ing type of guy, you could care less about contributing to your alliance and vice versa. ST emphasizes teamwork, which is what this entire game is all about... Yeah, you're race might suck ass vs. DE... but i'm sure one of your allies is great versus it. But nah, you wanna be able to solo cover anythign that comes you way by building 3 ships all round.

Have fun with your round off!

[Wishmaster]

Right Abort, whoever you may be.

If the ships target more than 1 ship, you will have more ships which targets all ships than you will have in a ST round where they only target one. Hence you will have LESS options. This can be countered with alot more ships, but it seldom is.

[isildurx]

Maybe it's time for a every ship targets every other ship round.

[Wishmaster]

I d love t3 target all on a couple of ships!
Prolly hard to balance though:/

[Abort]

Originally Posted by Wishmaster

Right Abort, whoever you may be.

If the ships target more than 1 ship, you will have more ships which targets all ships than you will have in a ST round where they only target one. Hence you will have LESS options. This can be countered with alot more ships, but it seldom is.

Ok then lets put this to practice with round 36 stats. Yea you could build a number of different choices:

Lets look at Ter... I could do every race, but I don't have all day:
Anti FI:

• Harpy
• Pegasus

Anti CO:

• Harpy
• Nix
• Pegasus

Anti FR:

• Nix
• Drake
• Syren
• Wyvern

Anti DE:

• Nix
• Drake
• Wyvern

Anti CR:

• Chimaera
• Dragon

Anti BS:

• Chimaera
• Dragon

Ok now lets look at what the universe has build this round for Ter ships..

Harpy -85,744,019
Phoenix -17,158,300
Gryphon -1,298,042
Pegasus -7,385,545
Drake -3,395,593
Chimaera -6,058,082
Syren -681,808
Wyvern -4,841,943
Dragon -6,254,553
Valkyrie -1,605,955
Minotaur -429,837
Leviathan -303,700
Behemoth -106,502

Yeah, I get it... we have tons of choices, a plethora of options... but most of the current playerbase has been playing for years and is easily able to analyze the stats.

My point: Yes, we see a much wider variety of ships, but we also see A LOT more useless ships. The universe ships dont lie... those poor fools who built Ter DE i'm 100% positive didn't fare too well this round. Yeah, the option was there, but in calcs they really got raped 100 different ways.

At least in single targetting, we're forced to deal with under efficient ships. It adds a different dimension to the game, allowing certain races to succeed in areas that others can't.

But of course, as I said before... this causes imbalance.. but we have seen some rounds in the past where ship stats have been ST and balanced enough.

And Wishmaster, just because I don't troll the forums all day doesn't mean I haven't been around and seen PA develop as a whole. So keep the "who ever you may be"'s out of it... you're not proving shit to anyone with that crap.

[isildurx]

I'm surprised so many built ter de. Terran doesn't really reflect the problem the best way though. You would see even bigger differences for Etd, zik and cat!

edit: and Abort, I am pretty sure Wish is aware of everything you are saying. Poor Wishy just really want to have MT stats so frenetically tries to not get it! It's his choice to make tho, poor wish /me gives Wish a PuddyTat hugggg

[Abort]

Originally Posted by isildurx

I'm surprised so many built ter de. Terran doesn't really reflect the problem the best way though. You would see even bigger differences for Etd, zik and cat!

I agree, it was just at the top of the list. But yea, it was probably the least worthy of note in my rant... and it STILL made it quite clear.

edit: And of course he is aware, i know he isn't an idiot. But it's just fun to rub in his invalid arguments. I know exactly why he want MT, he's just struggling to admit it.

[isildurx]

:d

[Wishmaster]

Originally Posted by Abort

Ok then lets put this to practice with round 36 stats. Yea you could build a number of different choices:

Lets look at Ter... I could do every race, but I don't have all day:

plz go through all, and you will see that people had options, and that people did actually go for different solutions. To counter the fact that so many went beetles, I m not too certain that going fr/de this round was that horrible.

Originally Posted by Abort

Ok now lets look at what the universe has build this round for Ter ships..

Harpy -85,744,019
Phoenix -17,158,300
Gryphon -1,298,042
Pegasus -7,385,545
Drake -3,395,593
Chimaera -6,058,082
Syren -681,808
Wyvern -4,841,943
Dragon -6,254,553
Valkyrie -1,605,955
Minotaur -429,837
Leviathan -303,700
Behemoth -106,502

Yeah, I get it... we have tons of choices, a plethora of options... but most of the current playerbase has been playing for years and is easily able to analyze the stats.

You do know that the different ships cost different amounts of resources kiddo? Try do it in VALUE / resources spent instead of numbers, and you will see that its shockingly well balanced.

Originally Posted by Abort

My point: Yes, we see a much wider variety of ships, but we also see A LOT more useless ships. The universe ships dont lie... those poor fools who built Ter DE i'm 100% positive didn't fare too well this round. Yeah, the option was there, but in calcs they really got raped 100 different ways.

At least in single targetting, we're forced to deal with under efficient ships. It adds a different dimension to the game, allowing certain races to succeed in areas that others can't.

You are kinda contradicting urself here man! You want to have useless ships which can be exploited in ST, but u dont want useless ships in MT rounds? And again, there arent really that many USELESS ships this round. I havent bothered to look through the top terrans, but I m pretty sure some of them are DE fortress. Correct me if I m wrong here! BA went DE at start of round, as an example.

If you want to attack 1 race all round, be my guest. HAVE FUN!

Originally Posted by Abort

And Wishmaster, just because I don't troll the forums all day doesn't mean I haven't been around and seen PA develop as a whole. So keep the "who ever you may be"'s out of it... you're not proving shit to anyone with that crap.

Since I dont know you, and havent played with you, you are most likely a crap player. Sorry man!

[Wishmaster]

Originally Posted by isildurx

I'm surprised so many built ter de. Terran doesn't really reflect the problem the best way though. You would see even bigger differences for Etd, zik and cat!

edit: and Abort, I am pretty sure Wish is aware of everything you are saying. Poor Wishy just really want to have MT stats so frenetically tries to not get it! It's his choice to make tho, poor wish /me gives Wish a PuddyTat hugggg

I m aware of everything, I just dont agree with the conclusions some draw. Most I talk with are saying they wont bother to play properly next round cause its ST. Maybe they are saying that to make me shut up though! ( probably )

[JonnyBGood]

I haven't seen a single person say that in ascendancy (which at this stage is a pretty diverse mix between shit players, lazy players and pretty serious players) wish so to be honest I doubt your experience is really that representative of the whole.


(I'm not saying nobody in asc is against it, just haven't seen anyone say they wouldn't play.)

[ATRO]

The likelihood of me playing would have very little to do with the stats and more to do with me having enough time/being motivated enough to play. The 2 rounds i played prior to returning in r33 were both ST rounds, and I quite enjoyed xp-whoring due to being in random gals.

If they are bringing back ST I would like to see it incorporated with a full random round, that might be interesting.

[Sun_Tzu]

Originally Posted by Abort

My point: Yes, we see a much wider variety of ships, but we also see A LOT more useless ships.

So your grand argument against multi-targeting ships is that the stats were done like shit?

Multi-targeting is, on average, the better balanced system of stats. When done well, it allows far more varied gameplay than single-targeting does.

[Zaejii]

Originally Posted by Tietäjä

What do you mean, single targeting supports fencing and defence whoring more? Because it makes it more difficult to have a 3-ship-fleet that essentially covers the vast majority of anything that could be thrown at you, so instead you have to whore defence fleets and build fences not to have your asteroids removed from you?

i can't believe i'm quoting myself, i thought you were better than that keiz

Originally Posted by Zaejii

single targeting just supports fencing and def whoring more (which in turn allows people to build that 1 ship + pod fleet and get away with never losing roids). blah blah etc etc

you (general you) do not have to cover all 6 classes yourself. this is also true in a multi targeting environment. look at the terran planets with 2mil+ harpy this round for example. who cares if they target both fi and co? do you really think most have enough fleet value into their de/bs to stop any incoming from fr/de/bs/cr classes without whoring defence (or fencing so they never get incs anyway)?

Originally Posted by Tietäjä

Single-targeting means there's bound to be holes of some sorts in your fleet... Hence it forces people to cooperate more through eh fence building and defence whoring...

so you question the point i was making, then you agree with me? /scratches head.

[JonnyBGood]

I don't really think most fleets being roughly the same across the races is such a terrible thing. We've had a few pretty balanced rounds with only 1 fleet type being massively prevalent per race. I think it's better when you get a round where it seems like everyone builds ****ing everything (I'd like to think I managed to do this reasonably well for r30) but they're a good deal harder than people think. I would have liked to have a crack at fixing these stats for next round but hey ho.

[Zaejii]

yeah, those rounds are the best. i was hoping to do that with my r33 stats to some extent, but people ended up just whoring cr/bs instead of building ships to exploit the lack of ally defense in tag.

[Scott]

Single targetting - allowing in-actives like me have fun in this game!

Hanzi, i'm coming for you.

[Tietäjä]

Originally Posted by Zaejii

do you really think most have enough fleet value into their de/bs to stop any incoming from fr/de/bs/cr classes without whoring defence (or fencing so they never get incs anyway)?

Multi-targeting does alleviate it, in comparison to single targeting - it obviously does depend on the nature of the numbers too, of course. But you'll get off with a lot less obvious holes.

single targeting just supports fencing and def whoring more (which in turn allows people to build that 1 ship + pod fleet and get away with never losing roids

I may have been obscure. I was trying to contest the assumption that statistics supporting whoring defences more is somewhat "bad".

Originally Posted by Scott

Single targetting - allowing in-actives like me have fun in this game!

In brief, this.

[rUl3r]

One slight remark about FR/DE that people seem to miss out in this discussion (imho): Usually FR/DE are not a preferred class if the stats make other setups at least equally viable (meaning fr/de need to be, to some extend, overpowered) for ETA/def reasons.
It´s the meta class that usually gets targetted by literally everything. You can try to cover oog with fi/co/fr/de (depending on the targetting), and there are always cr/bs shooting fr/de for ingal def as well. FI/CO got a clear eta advantage, while CR/BS at least don´t suffer from an additional meta class as viable defense ingal. Also, you can´t use FR/DE fleets to cover FI/CO incs oog (I know about PLed def etc, but face it, you either need pretty good intel about incomings or be lucky enough to figure out FI/CO waves by JGPs and already launched fleets), so there´s yet another basic disadvantage of a FR/DE based fleet setup compared to a FI/CO (with FR/DE/CR/BS anti-CR/BS as def ship) and CR/BS (with FI/CO as anti-fi/co def ship) compositions.

I´m pretty sure if you increase the A/C for Ter DE you´ll see a whole let of fortress planets around again. I had one in R30, I friend whose CR/BS fleet was set up with mainly anti-FR/DE couldn´t roid me for profit, even though he was much bigger than I was.

It´s not all about the pure numbers in the stats. Metagame and stuff like ETA does play an important role I think.

[Patrikc]

Originally Posted by rUl3r

It´s the meta class that usually gets targetted by literally everything.

The same can be mentioned as an advantage though; while being targeted by every metaclass, it also targets every class. You can put your full value into Fr/De, while with Fi/Co or Cr/Bs you need to spread it around.

And prelaunching defense is fairly easy in most cases. It's only difficult when all attackers livelaunch, otherwise you can just get 2-6 fleets to cycle def on and off.

[rUl3r]

Originally Posted by Patrikc

The same can be mentioned as an advantage though; while being targeted by every metaclass, it also targets every class. You can put your full value into Fr/De, while with Fi/Co or Cr/Bs you need to spread it around.

And prelaunching defense is fairly easy in most cases. It's only difficult when all attackers livelaunch, otherwise you can just get 2-6 fleets to cycle def on and off.

I know about both, I´ve played as Ter DE fortress planet before (as I mentioned) and know about the advantage and disadvantages of this setup. I used prelaunched FR/DE def, too, though you really need people to be awake to cycle, and you need to know either the landtick or consecutive FI/CO waves or active JGPing like 5 minutes before tick. It´s doable, but not cheap easy I´d say.

[Patrikc]

Originally Posted by rUl3r

I know about both, I´ve played as Ter DE fortress planet before (as I mentioned) and know about the advantage and disadvantages of this setup. I used prelaunched FR/DE def, too, though you really need people to be awake to cycle, and you need to know either the landtick or consecutive FI/CO waves or active JGPing like 5 minutes before tick. It´s doable, but not cheap easy I´d say.

Well, the round I went Fr/De was in Apprime at its peak, I've yet to see a more active core than that round. I suppose it's not as easy for the average alliance to keep fleets flying constantly, it's something you'd have to take into consideration when deciding on alliance fleet setup.

And I wasn't saying you didn't know about it, just that it deserved mention next to the disadvantages.

[Zotnam]

This round I must have launched 25-30 attacks that I knew would be covered before we even scanned. My fleet wasn't small. It was typically 8-10 man team ups. When it gets that hard to roid single planets, I think its time for single targets where you actually have a chance of roiding planets without massively overkill on people. Ofc, if you send 8-10 fleets on people and they cover it you get mocked. if you send 16-20 fleets and get through, they whine about overkill. PA these days is beyond a joke where no-one can accept losing roids or get bitter because someone attacks them. It's part of the game, a part you should enjoy as much as attacking other people. Guess that will never happen eh.

[Sun_Tzu]

Incase someone was wondering, uni at the end of the round looked like this:
Rnd36 Ships

[Almeida]

when i left PA about 18 rounds ago it was ST and hell, i loved this game!

when i came back for r36 it was MT and tbfh it was the most boring shittiest round ever.

i infact like it, that every race is asswide open against a specific class, that it is not possible to cover against all incs with only 3 different ships. it makes it more interesting and challenging to work on your own fleet composition.

MT just adds another dull dimension to PA. u just order 3 ships over and over and that`s it...

[Sun_Tzu]

Originally Posted by Almeida

when i left PA about 18 rounds ago it was ST and hell, i loved this game!

when i came back for r36 it was MT and tbfh it was the most boring shittiest round ever.

i infact like it, that every race is asswide open against a specific class, that it is not possible to cover against all incs with only 3 different ships. it makes it more interesting and challenging to work on your own fleet composition.

MT just adds another dull dimension to PA. u just order 3 ships over and over and that`s it...

Nice sample size, I'm sure that'll give you loads of meaningful trends and indicators to work with! I mean, it's not at all as if multiple other things might not have affected those rounds such as galaxy compositions, politics, community, personal bias or even the execution of the style of stats.

No, I'm sure you're right, it must have been the single/multi targeting variable which was alone responsible for the whole change.

[Colt]

Originally Posted by Wishmaster

Also, I havent seen a single ter with that sort of fleet, nor have I seen any zik / etd. Nice examples though Plz post more!

thats all i built as a zik

[eltsin]

I had something like 1.8m voyagers, 50k lancer, 20k avenger, 24k dreads. Stupid me built those stupid lancers and avengers, totally useless!

[Sun_Tzu]

Originally Posted by eltsin

I had something like 1.8m voyagers, 50k lancer, 20k avenger, 24k dreads. Stupid me built those stupid lancers and avengers, totally useless!

That was pretty much my fleet as well before I crashed my fi. Lancer/avenger were pretty useless once you started teaming with a terran, so I just pumped silly amounts of Voyagers after that.

[x-dANGEr]

Originally Posted by Sun_Tzu

Nice sample size, I'm sure that'll give you loads of meaningful trends and indicators to work with! I mean, it's not at all as if multiple other things might not have affected those rounds such as galaxy compositions, politics, community, personal bias or even the execution of the style of stats.

No, I'm sure you're right, it must have been the single/multi targeting variable which was alone responsible for the whole change.

He argued that MT needs you to build three ships only, that cover you against all classes, and this, is boring. ST on the other hand, he said, gives room for thinking out fleet compositions etc.

Could you be more irrelevant with your reply? Or more arrogant, for that matter.. Bad boy.

[Sun_Tzu]

Originally Posted by x-dANGEr

He argued that MT needs you to build three ships only, that cover you against all classes, and this, is boring. ST on the other hand, he said, gives room for thinking out fleet compositions etc.

Could you be more irrelevant with your reply? Or more arrogant, for that matter.. Bad boy.

The argument is a false one, a strawman. Further even if this were true, that multitargeting stats always lead to simpler fleet compositions, and in truth it is not, it would not negate the fact that his samplesize is too small to draw any conclusions as to what makes an interesting.

Could you be more irrelevant with you reply? Or more ignorant, for that matter. Foolish boy.

[x-dANGEr]

Originally Posted by Sun_Tzu

The argument is a false one, a strawman. Further even if this were true, that multitargeting stats always lead to simpler fleet compositions, and in truth it is not, it would not negate the fact that his samplesize is too small to draw any conclusions as to what makes an interesting.

Could you be more irrelevant with you reply? Or more ignorant, for that matter. Foolish boy.

It is not a statistical survey to be too concerned with "samplesize". We all speak of our own experience, doesn't mean that if my experience is close to non-existent, for instance, my opinion shall be dissed immediately.

"MT = 3 ship-fleets"
"ST = more variety"

You don't think so? Explain why.

I'm really sorry for hurting your ego. I was merely giving you an implicit peace of advise out of good will. ))

[Mzyxptlk]

You are totally misunderstanding what Tzu's post was about, dude.

[x-dANGEr]

Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk

You are totally misunderstanding what Tzu's post was about, dude.

Would you please care to explain?

[Mzyxptlk]

No.