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Unread 13 Jun 2005, 03:12   #51
G.K Zhukov
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Re: Who were well all then?

Gerbie, how did the cov op formula changed and how did it ruin your strategy?
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Unread 13 Jun 2005, 11:37   #52
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Re: Who were well all then?

Quote:
Originally Posted by G.K Zhukov
Gerbie, how did the cov op formula changed and how did it ruin your strategy?
It was possible to achieve near immunity by having 16% security centers.
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Unread 13 Jun 2005, 12:11   #53
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Re: Who were well all then?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Banned
It was possible to achieve near immunity by having 16% security centers.
as i understood it the implementation was changed to fit the formula that was in the manual at the start of the round
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Unread 13 Jun 2005, 15:00   #54
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Re: Who were well all then?

I was probebly the lowest ranked person concidering I didn't log in the last 2 months of the round
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Unread 14 Jun 2005, 02:20   #55
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Re: Who were well all then?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Banned
While Xan were basically unattackable
humpf. i wish you told all of my attackers that .
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Unread 14 Jun 2005, 02:56   #56
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Re: Who were well all then?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultimate Newbie
humpf. i wish you told all of my attackers that .
The race best at attacking Xan was Cathaar. Given the prevalence of anti-CR defence, and the strength of Lancers, it was not especially hard to cover a Cathaar attack compared to those of a similar value from another race.

How else do you think you did so well


Xan vs:

Terran DE - fireblades.
Terran BS - peacekeepers were an excellent deterrent as long as you had 500-1000+ (not hard)

Cathaar CO - 1k lancers = almost no pure CO attacks on you
Cathaar CR - bombers were quite good, and when frozen by Roaches, a few Scarabs and they would fire again. Oh, and Corsair as eta 7 anti-CR defence.

Xan FI - Bolts mean no Xan wants to touch you.
Xan FR - Arrowheads. Untargetted by Xan FR either.

Zik CO - 1k lancers again = the win.
Zik FR - harder to defend against, but this was a problem for all races, not just Xans (who had lots of Arrowheads anyway)
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Unread 14 Jun 2005, 03:15   #57
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Re: Who were well all then?

Quote:
Originally Posted by furball
How else do you think you did so well
OMG so cheeky!

Quote:
Terran DE - fireblades.
FB were prolly the worst Xan ship ever - they couldnt kill crap but Terrans were just too infatuated with their BA to use a DE fleet properly. IMO the DE fleet was easily the best.

Not many Xans would leave their FI (to cover Pulsars) home from a DE attack as it would mean the death of their attacking fleet - and thus screwing their round. Furthermore, multiple waves of DE would totally work over your Pulsars and the rest of your FI.

I only had 5k FB, and they were solely so i could defend against Xan FR more effectively. I had 10k Pulsars to make dents in stolen Pegs, but other than that i was ripe for the taking by DE. Alas i dont think i got DE incoming more than twice in the round...

Quote:
Terran BS - peacekeepers were an excellent deterrent as long as you had 500 (not hard)
I had 1k Peacekeepers (after not having many/any at the start of the round as i didnt think BA would be all the common cos DE were better ), but i was still getting BA incoming on a regular basis. I dont understand it myself, but roughly 1 in three fleets were BA (the other two were Cath CR ).

Quote:
Cathaar CO - 1k lancers = almost no pure CO attacks on you
Quite true . i had a Zik/Cath CO raid on my mid round and it would have stunned all of my FI (thus it was large) - so i built 1000 Lancers and not another CO peep .

Quote:
Cathaar CR - bombers were quite good, and when frozen by Roaches, a few Scarabs and they would fire again. Oh, and Corsair as eta 7 anti-CR defence.
Massed FR + scarabs usually won the day - but still, i have seen other people in this thread with fewer bombers (and other FR) than me, yet i was still getting about 2-3 waves of CR per night. I have to admit, their success rate was quite low (though i had to rely on Zik FR in-gal a couple of times solely to flak out roaches - yes, i was desperate ). My point is its just getting quite silly. Before the last 50ish ticks, i think i was ranked like 1700ish in Lost Roids - surely this was an indication that i tend to hold my roids? So why launch? :\

Quote:
Xan FI - Bolts mean no Xan wants to touch you.
Xan FR - Arrowheads. Untargetted by Xan FR either.
TBT are quite true - my 1k TBT discouraged any FI fleets from launching on me all round (10k Sents helped too i suppose, but TBT definately was the crux ).

As for Arrowheads, they were wtfpwn. I couldnt get enough of them (i finished with 25k). As a DC, i had a pretty good indication on how fast Zik FR fleets were growing (i aimed to be able to cover at least one Zik FR call by myself every night - with like two exceptions i did ). Though i have to admit i was attacked by FR about thrice. though it was supermassive Ziks looking to loose some value (so they could attack n00bs again i suppose ) as well as being greedy by wanting to steal my CO.

damn Ziks... .

Quote:
Zik CO - 1k lancers again = the win.
Zik FR - harder to defend against, but this was a problem for all races, not just Xans (who had lots of Arrowheads anyway)
As above.

Your post doesnt explain the sheer folly associated with my attackers. Why the hell try and attack me (who thoughout the round wasnt a very good target - i didnt have all that many roids) with such massive wtfpwn fleets, when you could have split them in two and got roids from two different targets.

It just doesnt make sense :\.

I have to admit, it did make my afternoons interesting though .
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Last edited by Ultimate Newbie; 14 Jun 2005 at 03:26.
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Unread 14 Jun 2005, 03:34   #58
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Re: Who were well all then?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultimate Newbie
FB were prolly the worst Xan ship ever - they couldnt kill crap but Terrans were just too infatuated with their BA to use a DE fleet properly. IMO the DE fleet was easily the best.

Not many Xans would leave their FI (to cover Pulsars) home from a DE attack as it would mean the death of their attacking fleet - and thus screwing their round. Furthermore, multiple waves of DE would totally work over your Pulsars and the rest of your FI.

I only had 5k FB, and they were solely so i could defend against Xan FR more effectively. I had 10k Pulsars to make dents in stolen Pegs, but other than that i was ripe for the taking by DE. Alas i dont think i got DE incoming more than twice in the round...

I had 1k Peacekeepers (after not having many/any at the start of the round as i didnt think BA would be all the common cos DE were better ), but i was still getting BA incoming on a regular basis. I dont understand it myself, but roughly 1 in three fleets were BA (the other two were Cath CR ).
Why were BS popular? To quote Nodrog's 'seminal article' (lol tarantulas)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nodrog
Most inexperienced players will go for Battleships as they “HAVE 80 GUNS AND DON’T DIE!!!!!!!!1112
Quote:
Originally Posted by furball
Most terran players will go for Battleships as they "DO MASSIVE DAMAGE AND DON'T DIE!!!!!!!!1112
It's so obvious to go for Battleships just because they have lots of armour and don't die. But EVERY round, it is the Terran's secondary attack fleet that is the harder to stop, whether due to levels of defence against it, or its targetting.

Round 12: Terran Frigate fleet was almost as hard to stop as Zik FR fleet was this round. It was rather nasty, whereas we were all used to trying to stop DE.

Round 13: Very little anti-DE defence in the universe, since everyone was plowing anti-Terran defence into anti-BS. Furthermore, most people had to focus on attack fleets, and anti-DE wasn't really a part of most people's attack fleets (compared to, say, anti-FI). Ignore the Wyvern, it's too slow.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultimate Newbie
TBT are quite true - my 1k TBT discouraged any FI fleets from launching on me all round (10k Sents helped too i suppose, but TBT definately was the crux ).
You should know from personal experience that you don't like to launch on TBT

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultimate Newbie
As for Arrowheads, they were wtfpwn. I couldnt get enough of them (i finished with 25k). As a DC, i had a pretty good indication on how fast Zik FR fleets were growing (i aimed to be able to cover at least one Zik FR call by myself every night - with like two exceptions i did ). Though i have to admit i was attacked by FR about thrice. though it was supermassive Ziks looking to loose some value (so they could attack n00bs again i suppose ) as well as being greedy by wanting to steal my CO.
If only every Xan had had 25k Arrowheads.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultimate Newbie
Your post doesnt explain the sheer folly associated with my attackers. Why the hell try and attack me (who thoughout the round wasnt a very good target - i didnt have all that many roids) with such massive wtfpwn fleets, when you could have split them in two and got roids from two different targets.

It just doesnt make sense :\.

I have to admit, it did make my afternoons interesting though .
You were in Vision, who had no allies. This made you an open target for them

Everyone else was napped to half the universe - I'd say that 1/5 of all VGN incomings were ones which I could ask for recall on (and so I did).
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Unread 14 Jun 2005, 03:42   #59
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Re: Who were well all then?

Quote:
Originally Posted by furball
You should know from personal experience that you don't like to launch on TBT
Damn Ziks...
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Unread 14 Jun 2005, 07:38   #60
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Re: Who were well all then?

I attacked with two destroyer fleets every night.

Those damned Xans with their damned Fireblades always seemed to find me though!!! Well, not always, about half the time.

And Newbie, if I'd found you with only 5k Fireblades I'd have launched on you in a second
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Unread 14 Jun 2005, 07:47   #61
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Re: Who were well all then?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChubbyChecker
I attacked with two destroyer fleets every night.

Those damned Xans with their damned Fireblades always seemed to find me though!!! Well, not always, about half the time.

And Newbie, if I'd found you with only 5k Fireblades I'd have launched on you in a second
I definitely liked fireblades too... and even with 8-10k I got quite a few DE incs (mostly of the 2k+ DE type). And I got 4 straight waves plus a straggler the moment someone sacrificed most of their FI fleet (520k value for 200 rocks :/) to take out my fireblades and arrowheads.
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Unread 14 Jun 2005, 11:38   #62
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Re: Who were well all then?

The problem with the DE fleet, was that it didn't target any of the defenders (except wyverns and pulsars which were out attacking anyway) . So that made it easy to defend against (free salvage!). Especially as many Xans had lots of fireblades (at least in my experience). That was the reason I mainly went for BS (and teaming up with a zik had you targetting all possible defenders). For example, I could easily attack a Xan with 500-750 xpks and make him run. Nobody likes to play chicken with a lemming.

But terrans sucked as an attack force (alone) in the later stage of the round, as terran was the only race without a fast pod fleet. Two ticks seemed to be plenty of time to gather fireblades and/or chims/bws.
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Unread 14 Jun 2005, 17:30   #63
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Re: Who were well all then?

I kinda went of battleships towards the end but still used them to my advantage as best I could but once I had 1k dragons and 2k bs tottal it was no problem for me to attack xans with a 1k peacekeepers vs 1k dragons as they where to scared to loose them all when all they where is a detterent and if they lost them then they knew them Terrans would be flying in there masses to pick up where I left off.
My last attack in game was on someone with 1.5k peacekeepers and he still ran from my dragons even though he got 6k chims defence (which did bugger all mind you).
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Unread 14 Jun 2005, 17:33   #64
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Re: Who were well all then?

Quote:
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I exiled 9 times, and damn you noah, beat me on xp by one place

hehe it wasnt intentional
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Unread 14 Jun 2005, 20:45   #65
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Re: Who were well all then?

I went the BS route at the start fo the round and it worked, but mid round or so after id kept suiciding my BS i decided to build DE, got to bout 5K altogether by end of round i think, and i only got through on a target maybe once/twice, either there were more FB thn what you (furball) think or i was just the unlucky sod who evryone liked to defend against
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Unread 14 Jun 2005, 20:57   #66
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Re: Who were well all then?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Colt
I went the BS route at the start fo the round and it worked, but mid round or so after id kept suiciding my BS i decided to build DE, got to bout 5K altogether by end of round i think, and i only got through on a target maybe once/twice, either there were more FB thn what you (furball) think or i was just the unlucky sod who evryone liked to defend against
Well, the problem was that the Fireblade wasn't an especially good ship. So even in large numbers, they didn't do a lot of killing.

The best anti-DE was probably the Cutter, but Ziks didn't build those in large enough numbers to matter (likewise the Clipper).

I sense that you got faked against quite a lot, Colt - although of course it works I expect that VGN had an 'average' number of fireblades for most alliances - our Xans didn't specialise in Arrowheads or anything.
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Unread 14 Jun 2005, 21:25   #67
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Re: Who were well all then?

Quote:
Originally Posted by furball
The best anti-DE was probably the Cutter, but Ziks didn't build those in large enough numbers to matter (likewise the Clipper).
My god the Cutter sucked. Impossible to keep alive, didn't steal. It was a lot more cost-efficient to just buy a small amount of Marauders, or keep a slush fund and buy the Marauders when the DE incoming came.

Clippers on the other hand, were ace. Same firepower as the thief, but complemented every form of anti-FR available. You just couldn't go wrong with them. Utterly amazing if you could steal yourself a good amount of Terran DE as well (see the previous point about Marauders).
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Unread 14 Jun 2005, 21:47   #68
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Re: Who were well all then?

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Originally Posted by Banned
My god the Cutter sucked. Impossible to keep alive, didn't steal. It was a lot more cost-efficient to just buy a small amount of Marauders, or keep a slush fund and buy the Marauders when the DE incoming came.
I've now taken a decent look at the stats rather than relying on my memory.

As a DC, Cutters were excellent. They got there within the ETA (unlike the Wyvern and Marauder), and weren't targetted. The Fireblade was poo (but eta 7), while the Gryphon was a sorry excuse for a ship. One of your 'bad' ships, I expect. Meanwhile, the Pulsar killed very nicely, but I don't enjoy playing chicken with attackers.

The two good anti-DE ships (i.e. hardly targetted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Banned
Clippers on the other hand, were ace. Same firepower as the thief, but complemented every form of anti-FR available. You just couldn't go wrong with them. Utterly amazing if you could steal yourself a good amount of Terran DE as well (see the previous point about Marauders).
You're absolutely right about the Clipper, I loved those. One guy in VGN had 2k, his number was one of my most called all round. However, I found that Marauders were fairly useless all round (based on hearsay from members). They couldn't send them with BS on attacks, since they'd just be covered instead, while they didn't make the ETA for ally defence (usually). In-gal defence faired quite well, but that's it really. They were enough of a deterrent to Terran attackers that they (Marauder-heavy Ziks) didn't get attacked anyway without some teaming-up going on.
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Unread 14 Jun 2005, 21:48   #69
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Re: Who were well all then?

I'm glad I had two destroyer fleets and didn't attack with BS. Yes, there were a lot of Fireblades out there but I landed more than half the time.
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Unread 14 Jun 2005, 22:21   #70
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Re: Who were well all then?

Quote:
Originally Posted by furball
As a DC, Cutters were excellent. They got there within the ETA (unlike the Wyvern and Marauder), and weren't targetted. The Fireblade was poo (but eta 7), while the Gryphon was a sorry excuse for a ship. One of your 'bad' ships, I expect. Meanwhile, the Pulsar killed very nicely, but I don't enjoy playing chicken with attackers.
The hands down best way to defend against DE was a mixed bag of Vipers, FB and Pulsars. Cutters do slightly more damage than FB, but the bad ETA means it's harder to get there in time. It also means you get them back slower etc.

Quote:
However, I found that Marauders were fairly useless all round (based on hearsay from members). They couldn't send them with BS on attacks, since they'd just be covered instead, while they didn't make the ETA for ally defence (usually). In-gal defence faired quite well, but that's it really. They were enough of a deterrent to Terran attackers that they (Marauder-heavy Ziks) didn't get attacked anyway without some teaming-up going on.
Marauders were definitely PDS, and I wouldn't advocate building them en-masse (unless one actually had a huge Cath CR fleet to flak).

Generally, there was a lack of anti-DE. Most anti-DE was 0-loss, but weak. Then Xan started growing massively and huge FB fleets showed up to spoil the fun.
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Unread 14 Jun 2005, 22:57   #71
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Re: Who were well all then?

At first Syrens was a good thing, but then thoose damn zik's started stealing bombers. Terrans didnt have much to brag about this round.
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Unread 14 Jun 2005, 22:58   #72
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Re: Who were well all then?

I liked gryphons, mine made a fair few destroyer fleets recall from my alliance mates. I never once had them used against me though. Or cutters. Or vipers. Just damned Fireblades!
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Unread 15 Jun 2005, 20:04   #73
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Re: Who were well all then?

syrens were shit fullstop, i found my xan co/fr fleet got through on every terran i sent, drake was pretty useless vs arrows aswell
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Unread 15 Jun 2005, 20:50   #74
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Re: Who were well all then?

Maradeur was rather slow. I figured pre-round that maradeur+hornet fleets might be useful to harvest a collection of certain destroyers (lancers and pegs, to complement clipper, with demeters), but anti-CR turned out quite high and maradeur just... well, slow.

Cutter, on the other hand, wasn't so bad; passively it keeps out clipper defences, when in larger numbers (this is from the conclusion of a few top zikonians), and it's zero-loss anti-de in any case. As furball said it, statistically the most efficient zero-loss anti-DE. Enough said?

Clipper was unarguably a great defence ship as zik FR couldn't bounce it (steal to recover losses), and it could, unlike Syren and Guardian, be there in time. Most anti-(zik)FR defences would eventually have degenerated into either "do we have enough *aka a mass of* drake/thief/arrowhead to blow a huge hole in his fleet, or do we have a reasonable amount of clippers to slow him down".

The ever-underestimated power of buccaneer against arrowhead; for me the balancing out between having more buccs than the arrow defences could coupe with was a descisive factor in very many attacks -- most of them, even if having a bucc-heavy (usually around 7 Bucc 5 thief) frigate fleet through the round I never ended up in a situation where drakes or thieves would have been a problem. Clippers were an occasional pest, but most of it was down to arrowheads.

I don't think I ever sent bombers/tzen on an attack fleet, but I never had too many of them, and they would be the vulnerable link of the frigate fleet in my opinion.
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Last edited by Tietäjä; 15 Jun 2005 at 20:53. Reason: oi oi
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Unread 16 Jul 2005, 05:17   #75
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Re: Who were well all then?

EDIT : nm, didn't make sense after I posted it lol

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