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Unread 6 May 2008, 14:06   #1
M0RPH3US
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Remove Prelaunches

lo, after returning to PA after 3 years break, i have to say most of the changes which happend are really good.

One is destroying the game....PRELAUNCH!!!

I have red many threads about loosing playerbase, about the game getting boring etc etc...

Just disable that damn prelaunch thingy!!!
Nowadays 90% of the active universe attacks at 4 GMT, ur gal get massived wave bye ppl who sleep in the meantime, now where is the fun in that ? Alliances lack of defence cause no one really is around no more at peak times to send defence...(yes a few are)
PA meant to be a game about getting new roids and ALSO keeping em, which nowadays is harder as it ever was before (even at Furgion times).

That prelaunch thing destroys the game and focusses it on a few hours a day, though its meant to be a 24/7 game.(yes lately attack times vary, but thats due to the near end of the round, when getting roids isnt the most important no more)...

Keep the defence prelaunch , but remove the prelaunch for attacks, or only allow prelaunch fake attacks and the activity of the community will rise again.

Positive Effects
- less piggies cause of double booked gals (cause diffrent launchtimes)
- alliances have to work out attack strategies (not just launch at the god damn worst time of the day(night))
- more defence will be available, as ppl have to get up for late night launches and then be able to defend
- active and good players will be in higher ranks, not those who sit in Gals containing all alliances (who just wont be hit that massive)

Negative Effects
- yes u have to get up at night if u want to land in the early morning
- nothing else if u ask me

Ok, pls dicuss this, and hopefully someone of jolt will read it aswell

kind regards
M0
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Unread 6 May 2008, 14:14   #2
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Re: Remove Prelaunches

To be honest Morph is right, everybody is prelaunching. Even more experianced player(not like me) saw that there is not much sense in getting up in night. Even if you get a jgp of yourself and report incs that you'll have...it does not really help. You'll have to wait till it appear, then go and cry for def...We can test removing prelaunch on attacks next round, because the prelaunch in defense is a must!

regard,
drac

PS: Great topic, m8 !
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Unread 6 May 2008, 14:35   #3
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Re: Remove Prelaunches

Most people have jobs, and the prelaunch feature makes this game playable for us. I've been playing "actively" this round, and it's certainly made a noticeable difference in my energy level having to interrupt sleep to get on PA...then try to go back to sleep, then get up and work all day.

I seriously doubt removing prelaunch would make the game more "fun". If anything, it will probably drive more people away.

Life doesn't, shouldn't, and (for most of us can't) revolve around internet games.

They don't pay the bills.
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Unread 6 May 2008, 14:43   #4
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Re: Remove Prelaunches

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cochese
Most people have jobs, and the prelaunch feature makes this game playable for us. I've been playing "actively" this round, and it's certainly made a noticeable difference in my energy level having to interrupt sleep to get on PA...then try to go back to sleep, then get up and work all day.

I seriously doubt removing prelaunch would make the game more "fun". If anything, it will probably drive more people away.

Life doesn't, shouldn't, and (for most of us can't) revolve around internet games.

They don't pay the bills.
Yes u got a point there, but where is the problem in attacking at 6gmt(before u go to work) or in early evenings around (21 GMT)

this way attacks will be spread out and the game will be played for more then 3 hours a day
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Unread 6 May 2008, 15:30   #5
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Re: Remove Prelaunches

Prelaunch enables us to leasurely play a hardcore game. If the game were less hardcore (for instance, because the features that enable us to play that way), we could just play the game at our own pace. That said, I'm not sure this scenario will play out, and thus not sure if this suggestion is a good one. Keeping an open mind though.
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Unread 6 May 2008, 15:32   #6
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Re: Remove Prelaunches

I agree with M0 here....if nothing else, removing prelaunch mite force some ships to land at sensible hours in the day. As at the moment, we launch/prelaunch at night, land in the morning and watch our ships return for the next 7/8 hours till we can do it all over again. Whereas, if some allies deemed it acceptable, we could get incomings through the daylight hours to keep ourselves occupied. Just a thought.
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Unread 6 May 2008, 16:53   #7
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Re: Remove Prelaunches

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cochese
Most people have jobs, and the prelaunch feature makes this game playable for us.
It also makes it unplayable because all of the action occurs in the middle of the night. The advantages prelauching brings also causes major disadvantages for anyone being attacked. Yet removing it might also cause a problem for those with limited attack windows due to work.

I find it quite amusing that nearly everyone here will say that activity should be rewarded, yet prelaunch attacking is one of the worst aspects of allowing attackers to win with minimal activity!

Given the amount of crap that gets tested out with each round, I'd like to see at least one round where this is tried out. Maybe it'll be an absolute failure, but in the worst case scenario it'll only affect a single 7 week round.
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Unread 6 May 2008, 17:08   #8
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Re: Remove Prelaunches

Quote:
Originally Posted by GReaper
Given the amount of crap that gets tested out with each round, I'd like to see at least one round where this is tried out. Maybe it'll be an absolute failure, but in the worst case scenario it'll only affect a single 7 week round.

Problem is, is that if the removal of prelaunch causes half the playerbase to either quit or take a round off, its going to be an incredibly short and boring round. Further, if those people realise the joy of the inactive world (like i have), then they might not come back playing again/ever.

Further, prelaunch is used far more in defence ... it would mean expecting people to wait up for hours and hours just to launch a def fleet too. Currently, you can just set it to prelaunch and at least force the attackers to not attack with those ships or recall later (when they've worken up to check)...
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Unread 6 May 2008, 18:05   #9
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Re: Remove Prelaunches

The original suggestion only regarded attack fleets, meaning defence (and possibly fake attacks) can still be prelaunched.
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Unread 6 May 2008, 18:46   #10
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Re: Remove Prelaunches

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultimate Newbie
Problem is, is that if the removal of prelaunch causes half the playerbase to either quit or take a round off, its going to be an incredibly short and boring round. Further, if those people realise the joy of the inactive world (like i have), then they might not come back playing again/ever.

Further, prelaunch is used far more in defence ... it would mean expecting people to wait up for hours and hours just to launch a def fleet too. Currently, you can just set it to prelaunch and at least force the attackers to not attack with those ships or recall later (when they've worken up to check)...
first of all, how can u be sure it will cause half the playerbase to quit PA !?
this is just ur personal view, u´d need a poll to find that out...

apart from that, i dont think ppl quit a round of pa for the changes been made, either they plan to play and do so, or they have been unsure to play the coming round and take everything they can get as a reason to stop playing

secondly, i am talking about prelaunch attacks!!! and only about those.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk
The original suggestion only regarded attack fleets, meaning defence (and possibly fake attacks) can still be prelaunched.
exactly, prelaunch for defence should remain!!! and for fake attacks aswell.
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Unread 6 May 2008, 18:50   #11
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Re: Remove Prelaunches

When you have a game like this, with the playerbase spread out around the world, no situation is going to be "perfect". What's better for someone in Western Europe isn't necessarily better for someone in the US, or Asia.

I certainly wouldn't mind seeing more action in the early evening rather than at night, but then again I'm in the States, and 5/6 hours behind gametime...

I'm trying to keep an open mind here too, and perhaps we could try it out for a round and see how it goes.
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Unread 6 May 2008, 19:08   #12
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Re: Remove Prelaunches

There are other possible ideas which could be used to discourage prelaunch but not remove it entirely like the original suggestion.

Maybe limit prelaunching to a single fleet only. So if players want to prelaunch for an alliance attack they'll have to limit themselves to one single target. The game gets boring rather fast when high ranking planets send out multiple fleets to the same galaxy on prelaunch at easy targets which give little XP. It would force people to either pick a single decent target, limit themselves to one poor target, get up to launch fleets at the right time, or launch a fleet earlier/later and the usual fleet can be prelaunched.

Prelaunch has been a problem for the game for many rounds, yet not many people want to remove it entirely as people might get pissed off and quit over it. I'd say given the problems it causes it is time to look at potential solutions to the problem.
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Unread 6 May 2008, 19:37   #13
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Re: Remove Prelaunches

I touched on this subject recently in another thread http://pirate.planetarion.com/showth...90#post3145390

In my opinion, prelaunching attacks has two negative effects on the game. It makes it easy for large numbers of attack fleets to be sent at "peak times" (so that defences can be overwhelmed) and at the same time makes it unnecessary for the attackers to actually be online thereby reducing the number of defence fleets available.

I don't believe that removing pre-launch would cause any noticeable reduction in player numbers either. As I said in that other post, organising (and sending) defence is the part of the game which encourages teamwork - and thereby builds communities. At the moment, there is nothing in the current game to encourage new players to stay for long - and returning players (such as the original poster) aren't likely to be impressed either.

However, I disagree with one part of the original suggestion. I'd like to see pre-launch removed altogether - fake attacks and defence missions included. If the ETA of the defence fleet is shorter than it needs to be then it's a relatively simple matter to add one higher class ship to slow it down a tick (or two). Still, I could live with just removing pre-launch for (both types of) attack missions.

Go on....... give it a try.......... you know it makes sense.
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Unread 6 May 2008, 21:16   #14
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Re: Remove Prelaunches

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArcChas

However, I disagree with one part of the original suggestion. I'd like to see pre-launch removed altogether - fake attacks and defence missions included. If the ETA of the defence fleet is shorter than it needs to be then it's a relatively simple matter to add one higher class ship to slow it down a tick (or two). Still, I could live with just removing pre-launch for (both types of) attack missions.
You also including removal of prelauch on ingal defense? This I dont think would be so hot
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Unread 6 May 2008, 21:52   #15
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Re: Remove Prelaunches

Good point - one which I'd overlooked.

So I'll amend my position to "please remove pre-launch for attack missions only".
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Unread 6 May 2008, 23:05   #16
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Re: Remove Prelaunches

cochese, I called in sick on monday after the heavy incs.

I was just too tired
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Unread 6 May 2008, 23:35   #17
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Re: Remove Prelaunches

Back in the days before prelaunch attacks happened much earlier in the day. Most attacks would be launched around 00:00 GMT, right when most players would go to bed. It was rare to get around the clock style attacks. With the advent of prelaunch all that has really changed is that the time attacks launch has shifted to later in the evening, ussually somewhere between 2:00 and 6:00 GMT depending on the alliance. Alliances still attack in waves, and still try to overwhelm the defense. So from my perspective little changed when prelaunched was added other then the time at which attacks launch. The removal of prelaunch would simply set us back to an earlier launch time for attacks, rather then any shift in ally strategy. Unless someone can clearly articulate how attack strategies would change as a result of removing prelaunch again I don't see the big advantage in removing it, especially considering we will certainly loose a chunk of the player base who work full time jobs.
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Unread 6 May 2008, 23:55   #18
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Re: Remove Prelaunches

I am quite sure that lots of players would leave if prelaunches disappeared. They might not be the really active ones that bother to post here, but they are many!!:crymeariver:
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Unread 6 May 2008, 23:59   #19
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Re: Remove Prelaunches

Monroe, i think the main difference between them is that in a raid that launches at 23:58 is that people actually had to be awake, and thus around, at that time. So, most would push the button, and wait a couple of mins to see if there were incs, and could also send defence and be in bed by 00:15 if the DC was any good (sorry guys ). That meant more covered waves. It also gave advantage to those who were launching at 01:00 as the whole alliance would still be awake then and ready to send defence.

With prelaunched attacks, you can launch as soon as you have the target co-ords and your wave number - which might be much earlier like 10pm if you're well connected. So, by 3 am every has launched their attacks, but has been in bed for hours and thus doesnt offer any defence to counter those attacks.

The result is a strongly offensive game. That's much better than the stagnation that we had before, but it could be made more defensive again to redress the balance...
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Unread 7 May 2008, 00:56   #20
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Re: Remove Prelaunches

I'm not good with middle roads, but a compromise would be to limit the prelaunch time to 1 or 2 ticks for attacks, and 9 for defence (to allow for early round ingal defence against eta14 cr/bs fleets). That way people wouldn't have to stay up that much longer to be able to send meaningful defence, without completely removing the edge of prelaunching attacks.
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Unread 7 May 2008, 13:09   #21
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Re: Remove Prelaunches

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monroe
Back in the days before prelaunch attacks happened much earlier in the day. Most attacks would be launched around 00:00 GMT, right when most players would go to bed. It was rare to get around the clock style attacks. With the advent of prelaunch all that has really changed is that the time attacks launch has shifted to later in the evening, ussually somewhere between 2:00 and 6:00 GMT depending on the alliance. Alliances still attack in waves, and still try to overwhelm the defense. So from my perspective little changed when prelaunched was added other then the time at which attacks launch. The removal of prelaunch would simply set us back to an earlier launch time for attacks, rather then any shift in ally strategy. Unless someone can clearly articulate how attack strategies would change as a result of removing prelaunch again I don't see the big advantage in removing it, especially considering we will certainly loose a chunk of the player base who work full time jobs.
Atm attacks get launched beetween 2 and 4 gmt every night, so u actually have to be awake in the middle of the night(if u live in europe) or stay up late (in the USA/Canada) to arrange defence. <--- i really dont see where this is helping anyone with a full time job. Getting up in the middle of the night to arrange defence is like the most annoying thing to do, specially when u know u have to get up again 2-3 hours later (if u end totally unlucky u get like 6 waves on ur lil planet and just wont go to bed anymore, so u got up in the middle of the night, sit behind ur computer for like 4 hours and then go to work.)
Whilst removing prelaunch, alliances will have to offer diffrent launchtimes for their attacks. Attacks will be spread out and its much less likely ur gal gets 4 waves from 2 - 5 gmt (as only few ppl will be able to launch at that time).Some ppl will be able to attack 23 GMT, other 2 GMT, again others 5GMT and so on and on. More work for the alliances thats for sure.
And again i still dont see fulltime workers leaving cause prelaunches will be disabled.
But yes, the game will get in somewhat reason harder, as u can´t be sure when the waves will strike u...atm u know on what time u have to get up once u spoted incs on ur jgp...which is rather boring aswell

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultimate Newbie
...The result is a strongly offensive game. That's much better than the stagnation that we had before, but it could be made more defensive again to redress the balance...
Attacking is nowadays way much easier, if u see the fact that a attack can be prelaunched what 12 ticks ?
and defence has to be coordinated in 1-2 ticks at max...while u need 2-5 defence fleets to cover a call if attacker and target have about the same size...
Disabling prelaunch on attacks would maybe (u can´t be sure until u test things) balance this out a bit more...and i am sure it still will be easier to attack then actual defend (the fact that u can defend 1 tick only cares for that allready)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk
I'm not good with middle roads, but a compromise would be to limit the prelaunch time to 1 or 2 ticks for attacks, and 9 for defence (to allow for early round ingal defence against eta14 cr/bs fleets). That way people wouldn't have to stay up that much longer to be able to send meaningful defence, without completely removing the edge of prelaunching attacks.
i could live with that aswell and it would probably help getting actually landing ticks spread out over more hours then 2 or 3

and yes the defence prelaunch should remain...
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Unread 7 May 2008, 13:30   #22
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Re: Remove Prelaunches

Prelaunch has killed alliance defense.

People pre-launch their attacks then go to bed. So when everybody's fleets ACTUALLY launch - there's rarely anyone around to send defense. Or you get a handful of people willing to stay up, or that get up per default to send def. And then there's the even smaller number of people who actually stay up all night to organise the defense - a thankless task when everyone who COULD send defense is in bed.

But on the other side of this - if prelaunch was removed, then people would be forced to attack earlier if they still wanted to go to bed, and then attacks would suffer as everyone would be around to send defense and landing would be difficult.

the solution that mz highlighted seems like the only viable option. PATeam aren't gonna take pre-launch out of the game even if the community is unanimous, but they may be inclined to support this modification on an existing feature.

And being completely honest - if there are still a large enough group of players who need to attack earlier then it's the alliances' responsibility to organise attacks at a time that's convenient for it's players - OR - it's the players' responsibility to find an alliance that attacks at times that suit them.

Conclusion: Set a 2-tick maximum for prelaunching attack fleets, and a 9-tick prelaunch maximum for defense.
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Unread 7 May 2008, 14:20   #23
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Re: Remove Prelaunches

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny
But on the other side of this - if prelaunch was removed, then people would be forced to attack earlier if they still wanted to go to bed, and then attacks would suffer as everyone would be around to send defense and landing would be difficult.
Why is this a bad thing? Why should attacking be easy?
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Unread 7 May 2008, 14:56   #24
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Re: Remove Prelaunches

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wishmaster
cochese, I called in sick on monday after the heavy incs.

I was just too tired
People still give a damn then? shocking.. (and worrying) :s
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Unread 7 May 2008, 15:02   #25
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Re: Remove Prelaunches

Don't flame me for the following suggestion please :

add the prelaunched delay to the returning eta... I'm not against prelaunch but it should not come for free.
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Unread 7 May 2008, 15:29   #26
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Re: Remove Prelaunches

Pre-launch evens the playing field between the students/youth with all the time on their hands and working people who has more responsiblitys to do irl.

This allows same playground for all regardless of online times. Still if you want to pull a higher success against others... nothing stops u for staying awake all night long to def incoming properly.

It's all about what standards you set for your alliances.

Surely we can remove it and it will have gains also. But then we are back on situation when availability and lack of sleep determines the winner (most likely.)
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Unread 7 May 2008, 15:45   #27
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Re: Remove Prelaunches

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny
Conclusion: Set a 2-tick maximum for prelaunching attack fleets, and a 9-tick prelaunch maximum for defense.
I'd say 3 personally. (that means you land 11 ticks away from launching. Ie. 1 hour commute there, 8 hours work and 1 hour back).

Not too sure what I think, but I wouldn't be violently opposed to 3h attack, 9h def.
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Unread 7 May 2008, 15:48   #28
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Re: Remove Prelaunches

I must admit I have mixed feelings regarding this to be honest, as people have said pre-launch helps for us Europeans, it means we can attack with our alliances without losing too much sleep but if removing pre-launches for attacking increased the spread of attacks throughout the day rather than been mainly focused on a three to four hour window this could add a little more excitement to the game as attacks could appear at almost any time.
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Unread 7 May 2008, 18:41   #29
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Re: Remove Prelaunches

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ave
Pre-launch evens the playing field between the students/youth with all the time on their hands and working people who has more responsiblitys to do irl.

This allows same playground for all regardless of online times. Still if you want to pull a higher success against others... nothing stops u for staying awake all night long to def incoming properly.

It's all about what standards you set for your alliances.

Surely we can remove it and it will have gains also. But then we are back on situation when availability and lack of sleep determines the winner (most likely.)
Ok, 2 things i like to add.

First it wont make much sense to stay up all night to arrange ur defence, whilst u notice after trying for 1-2 hours that there is just not enough defence available...(sometimes u end lucky ok, but on other times u run around trying without any effect, differs from day to day, alliance to alliance)

Secondly yes its probably true that lack of sleep and availability determines the winner of the round...but then i have to ask u, whats wrong in that ? Whats wrong with the most active player (and yes u still need skillz and the right backup from alliance/gal/friends) winning the round.
And yet again...what determinates the winner of the round atm? That guy having the most luck with early attacking ? and then sitting in a "safe to all sides" gal while hes hiding 70% of his score in hidden production ?

I am quite sure that i rather see the first mentioned guy to win the game, then the second won.
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Unread 7 May 2008, 18:43   #30
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Re: Remove Prelaunches

Remove pre launch and you will remove players.
I want more automation to the game tbh.
Got incs when i wake up,alliance def on the way to each of the waves and i want to be able to organise my ships,like send away fr/de for first,then recall them for 2nd and send away co/fi to safety.
I want to be able to do this by issuing orders to my fleets ticks before attackers land so i don't have to sit there for hours or i can go to work(we don't all have internet access at work you know).Still calcing and doing all the work i'm just not sat waiting for hours on end for a tick to happen to do these things.The attacker sat there waiting for his fleet to land?sad if he is because i never do,jpg eta4,to much def recall if not land,log in hours later and see BR.
Most players i know have jobs,kids and even a few have a life but they enjoy PA.
This game should be more user friendly not less.
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Unread 7 May 2008, 19:01   #31
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Re: Remove Prelaunches

I read half the thread and skimmed the rest, so I apologize if this has already been suggested.

Here is a way to keep pre-launch attack and make the game more "defensive."

Have pre-launched fleets eta time (e.g. 8+7) appear on alliance defense tab.
If someone wants to be undetected, they will have to stay up to launch at tick.

Now, please think critically of this idea.
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Unread 7 May 2008, 19:05   #32
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Re: Remove Prelaunches

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimbobthe2nd
Remove pre launch and you will remove players.
I want more automation to the game tbh.
Got incs when i wake up,alliance def on the way to each of the waves and i want to be able to organise my ships,like send away fr/de for first,then recall them for 2nd and send away co/fi to safety.
I want to be able to do this by issuing orders to my fleets ticks before attackers land so i don't have to sit there for hours or i can go to work(we don't all have internet access at work you know).Still calcing and doing all the work i'm just not sat waiting for hours on end for a tick to happen to do these things.The attacker sat there waiting for his fleet to land?sad if he is because i never do,jpg eta4,to much def recall if not land,log in hours later and see BR.
Most players i know have jobs,kids and even a few have a life but they enjoy PA.
This game should be more user friendly not less.
so what ? logging in on a monday to plan every move of ur fleet for the coming hours ? days? round ?
well dont take it personal pls, but PA always have been a game which is to be played 24/7, which determinates activity, communication and all that. yes not all ppl may be able to play it if they have only inet access for like 4 hours a day. but u can´t go swimming on a beautiful sunday afternoon when u have to work at that time...
if u want to play 1 hour a day after u come home from work, there is some offline PA versions out there, where u can attack bot planets, set the speed of the occuring ticks and just stop and safe the game to continue it when u like to.

sorry yet again, but if PA moves more into the direction u suggested, i am quite confident that all players who play it from the start or early rounds will leave (i can speak for me, and i would)
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Unread 7 May 2008, 19:53   #33
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Re: Remove Prelaunches

Quote:
Originally Posted by M0RPH3US
Ok, 2 things i like to add.

First it wont make much sense to stay up all night to arrange ur defence, whilst u notice after trying for 1-2 hours that there is just not enough defence available...(sometimes u end lucky ok, but on other times u run around trying without any effect, differs from day to day, alliance to alliance)

Secondly yes its probably true that lack of sleep and availability determines the winner of the round...but then i have to ask u, whats wrong in that ? Whats wrong with the most active player (and yes u still need skillz and the right backup from alliance/gal/friends) winning the round.
And yet again...what determinates the winner of the round atm? That guy having the most luck with early attacking ? and then sitting in a "safe to all sides" gal while hes hiding 70% of his score in hidden production ?

I am quite sure that i rather see the first mentioned guy to win the game, then the second won.
First of all I dont mind if u remove it, we played these games without such for a long time allready. But if I seek some good sides of pa compared to other games in genre (which most are more intensive and "imaginary" -> better.) the biggest gains are it is so playable to all regardless their online times, which also helps to keep players, since even if u are busy irl, you can still manage decent ingame.

How it differs if the winner is determined by who wakes up to defend 4 am or who wakes up to launch an attack at 4 am? If you want to win, good choise is to be there when there is something to do, if it is att or def, its all the same. Alliances can set their own standars weather u want such people to stay awake or let them sleep.

To my experience and what I believe is those fleets that are now pre-launched during the evening will just stay home, if the launches are arranged during the night time still, as it will most likely be happening. There aint many volunteers to launch as cannon fodders to suck all def before real waves come (the night attack.) Sure I can do that, but I dont think I would have much support

and if we gona support this idea, we can same remove some fleet eta and make the game interesting for a change

I believe there are better ways to add more action during the day than removing pre-launch. (Sure it needs some coding and fresh thinking... )
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Unread 7 May 2008, 20:15   #34
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Re: Remove Prelaunches

We never had prelaunch in the old days and i can't say it really did us any harm. This is my first full round back since round 7 and i can see both sides of the arguement here though I do NOT use attack prelaunch in any great amount. I live in the uk and do it old school style. I set my fleet ready and go to bed then wake up and launch it! Then i sleep again now i know everyone is different and the main motivation for me is that i don't want people to know i am launching before i actually launch (due to jgp scans) so something can be said for the tactical advantage. The only time i use attack pre launch is when i have multiple launch times due to waves where i will prelaunch the later fleet when i launch the other.

As for defence prelaunch has to stay because there have been many times when i've prelaunched galaxy defence before going to work so in short i support the origonal post that it should be removed entirely for attacks and kept for defence. If players could get more defence they would be so frustrated. Or at the very least severely limit prelaunch attacks because atm it aint working.
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Unread 7 May 2008, 20:34   #35
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Re: Remove Prelaunches

I don't think anyone here is considering removing defence prelaunch, so all we're talking about is attack prelaunch. Keep it, remove it or limit it?
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Unread 7 May 2008, 20:46   #36
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Re: Remove Prelaunches

I think there is a misconception that if we remove attack prelaunch it will cause a spreading out of when attacks occur. It is possible it will have this effect in the short run, but in the long run attack times will normalize again, simply to an earlier time of the night rather then really late like it does at the moment. I seriously doubt there will be a major shift in how attacks occur. The only way that the attack method would shift dramatically is if PA had a more geographically disperse player base which would discourage the late night european attacks and instead shift attack times to a more balanced set of attack times to reflect the fact that most players are no long european. So the moral of the story is, if the real issue here is attack times and not prelaunch the solution is to get a bunch of aussies to play the game, not remove prelaunch.
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Unread 7 May 2008, 21:33   #37
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Re: Remove Prelaunches

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monroe
I think there is a misconception that if we remove attack prelaunch it will cause a spreading out of when attacks occur. It is possible it will have this effect in the short run, but in the long run attack times will normalize again, simply to an earlier time of the night rather then really late like it does at the moment. I seriously doubt there will be a major shift in how attacks occur. The only way that the attack method would shift dramatically is if PA had a more geographically disperse player base which would discourage the late night european attacks and instead shift attack times to a more balanced set of attack times to reflect the fact that most players are no long european. So the moral of the story is, if the real issue here is attack times and not prelaunch the solution is to get a bunch of aussies to play the game, not remove prelaunch.
yet again, i am not trying to prevent that there are attacks beeing launched at 2-4 gmt,
i am trying to achieve that NOT ALL UNIVERSE attacks at 2-4 gmt and in addition that there is defence available at that time....
And yes ofc alliances won´t start attacking at noon all of a sudden, as the european night is and will be the best time to succesfully land attacks. But then again it wont be possible for a alliance to have all their players launch by that time, due to not everyone beeing able (or interested to get up just to launch a fleet) and its those players atm which outbalance the game, as they only offer hostile ships to the universe(prelaunched), but no defence ships at the peak times cause they sleep.

I remember times where it has been horrible hard to take down special gals, where alliances really had to work to get down a certain topgal.
Nowadays Attacks are way too easy...it doesnt take much to bring down a topgal...actually just takes a alliance with average sized planets, one click on the bcalc and another one on the prelaunch. now hope u dont get hit urself, got to bed, scan at eta4, recall or stay...wait for ur fleet, and in the evening pick another gal...

And no it wasnt always fun to see that 90% of ur launched attacks had to recall, but it was sure fun to be in one of those gals, arranging defence, swapping ships beetween galmembers and taggin up ur galname the next day "nice try -insertalliancehere- try again tonight"

apart from that, i have nothing against players from australia/newzealand...i even have a place in my BP open for one of those!
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Unread 7 May 2008, 21:40   #38
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Re: Remove Prelaunches

to be honest, removing prelaunch would completely reverse the insane attacking nature that is pa nowadays.
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Unread 7 May 2008, 21:43   #39
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Re: Remove Prelaunches

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alki
to be honest, removing prelaunch would completely reverse the insane attacking nature that is pa nowadays.
Do you consider this a good or a bad thing?
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Unread 7 May 2008, 22:11   #40
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Re: Remove Prelaunches

a good thing maybe it would cut down on all the doublebooking/triple booking, insane amount of incs to cover, people who need to prelaunch would benefit from recieving less incs and holding onto there roids for longer, also activity would be rewarded.
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Unread 7 May 2008, 23:06   #41
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Re: Remove Prelaunches

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimbobthe2nd
Remove pre launch and you will remove players.
I want more automation to the game tbh.
Got incs when i wake up,alliance def on the way to each of the waves and i want to be able to organise my ships,like send away fr/de for first,then recall them for 2nd and send away co/fi to safety.
I want to be able to do this by issuing orders to my fleets ticks before attackers land so i don't have to sit there for hours or i can go to work(we don't all have internet access at work you know).Still calcing and doing all the work i'm just not sat waiting for hours on end for a tick to happen to do these things.The attacker sat there waiting for his fleet to land?sad if he is because i never do,jpg eta4,to much def recall if not land,log in hours later and see BR.
Most players i know have jobs,kids and even a few have a life but they enjoy PA.
This game should be more user friendly not less.
We're losing players anyway - we need to put some sense of teamwork/community/enjoyment back into the game.

And taking your utopian scenario..... who do you think is going to be sending this "alliance def on the way to each of the waves"? The answer is the unselfish players who are prepared to stay awake through the "peak times" (or prepared to get out of bed at those times). Actually, the answer is more likely to be "no one".

So why don't we try to make it fairer? By removing pre-launched attacks, the people who want to launch attacks in the early hours of the morning will also have to be online to offer their def fleets at that time. Don't you see that this will actually help to balance the game?
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Unread 7 May 2008, 23:10   #42
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Re: Remove Prelaunches

I don't think selfishness is the reason people don't stay up until 4am to defend.
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Unread 7 May 2008, 23:13   #43
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Re: Remove Prelaunches

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny

Conclusion: Set a 2-tick maximum for prelaunching attack fleets, and a 9-tick prelaunch maximum for defense.
Thats reasonable enough for me
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Unread 8 May 2008, 00:13   #44
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Re: Remove Prelaunches

i just wanna throw in 2 cents and ask a question:
wouldn't the removal of pre-launch bring back the account sharing problem?
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Unread 8 May 2008, 00:28   #45
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Re: Remove Prelaunches

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpaceLegend
i just wanna throw in 2 cents and ask a question:
wouldn't the removal of pre-launch bring back the account sharing problem?
Er, what? :|
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Unread 8 May 2008, 01:53   #46
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Re: Remove Prelaunches

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gate
I'd say 3 personally. (that means you land 11 ticks away from launching. Ie. 1 hour commute there, 8 hours work and 1 hour back).

Not too sure what I think, but I wouldn't be violently opposed to 3h attack, 9h def.
this sounds good to me
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Unread 8 May 2008, 05:48   #47
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Re: Remove Prelaunches

Quote:
Originally Posted by M0RPH3US
less piggies cause of double booked gals (cause diffrent launchtimes)
Seriously, how will this prevent double booking? You can still get double/triple/quadruple booked and the fleets spread on different waves will still collide, most likely on the latter waves. Less piggies maybe for the people who bother to launch early.

Quote:
Originally Posted by M0RPH3US
alliances have to work out attack strategies (not just launch at the god damn worst time of the day(night))
What?

Quote:
Originally Posted by M0RPH3US
more defence will be available, as ppl have to get up for late night launches and then be able to defend
Or, people will just delay their attacks till they wake up, and there's still not that much defence at the night.

Quote:
Originally Posted by M0RPH3US
active and good players will be in higher ranks, not those who sit in Gals containing all alliances (who just wont be hit that massive)
Having a bunch of active players launching early doesn't remove fence sitting. And even if you are super active but in a shit gal you'll still be doing pretty average. Also, activity is NOT a measure of being a good player.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ave
Pre-launch evens the playing field between the students/youth with all the time on their hands and working people who has more responsiblitys to do irl.

This allows same playground for all regardless of online times. Still if you want to pull a higher success against others... nothing stops u for staying awake all night long to def incoming properly.
QFT.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alki
to be honest, removing prelaunch would completely reverse the insane attacking nature that is pa nowadays.
I agree with this tho. I'd expect people to start launching later in the morning which also brings more defence around in the mornings because of all fleets not being out attacking.

edit: btw, I wake up at 4GMT so it's perfect for launching already. (just in case someone asks!)

Last edited by Hude; 8 May 2008 at 06:51.
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Unread 8 May 2008, 08:24   #48
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Re: Remove Prelaunches

If prelaunch is removed I'll quit playing or maybe become a scanner or something...
I'm sorry, but I cba'd to get up in the middle of the night to launch attacks & sending def. I only sleep like 6 hours every night, if I had to wake up at 3-4 am to attack i'd be getting 2-3 hours sleep max. / night. I'm simply not willing to compromise my health for planetarion (VdM in true planetarion shocker: sleep is healthy and you need it!).

I could afford to get up at night when i was still in school but with my job now I don't want to jeapordise everything for pa.

Also, here's a realistic summary of what'll happen if you remove prelaunch:
The people that can't be active during the middle of the night will launch either when they go to sleep or when they wake up. This game being mainly european based that'll be around the same time for everyone.
These players will have their attacks stopped most of the time since there'll be alot of people online then to send def.
The people that are able to get up at night will have it alot easier to land attacks, get shitloads of roids & grow alot faster than the rest.

Alot of the people that can't be online at night to send attacks will get frustrated: they grow slow, can't get roids much, ...
I predict alot of these people will quit the game.
Eventually pa will only have the hardcore players left that are able to get up at night.
Sounds like fun hu?

Basicly, if you want to play a game with no prelaunch, go play pia or somethin.


I do agree with the suggestion to reduce the amount of ticks you can prelaunch like gate said (+3 attack, +9 def) and I also wouldn't mind it if on jgp's it shows up how much ticks it is prelaunched.
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Unread 8 May 2008, 09:20   #49
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Re: Remove Prelaunches

Quote:
Originally Posted by Veedeejem!
If prelaunch is removed I'll quit playing or maybe become a scanner or something...
I'm sorry, but I cba'd to get up in the middle of the night to launch attacks & sending def. I only sleep like 6 hours every night, if I had to wake up at 3-4 am to attack i'd be getting 2-3 hours sleep max. / night. I'm simply not willing to compromise my health for planetarion (VdM in true planetarion shocker: sleep is healthy and you need it!).

I could afford to get up at night when i was still in school but with my job now I don't want to jeapordise everything for pa.
You don't have to get up in the middle of the night you fool. No one is forcing you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Veedeejem!
Also, here's a realistic summary of what'll happen if you remove prelaunch:
The people that can't be active during the middle of the night will launch either when they go to sleep or when they wake up. This game being mainly european based that'll be around the same time for everyone.
These players will have their attacks stopped most of the time since there'll be alot of people online then to send def.
The people that are able to get up at night will have it alot easier to land attacks, get shitloads of roids & grow alot faster than the rest.

Alot of the people that can't be online at night to send attacks will get frustrated: they grow slow, can't get roids much, ...
I predict alot of these people will quit the game.
Eventually pa will only have the hardcore players left that are able to get up at night.
Sounds like fun hu?
If everyone attacks at midnight instead of at 4AM, yes, there will be more defence available. Landing attacks will be harder, defence will become more important. The few that can be arsed to get up in the middle of the night will grow faster. But really, how many people are still willing to get up every night to launch attacks? Sure, when an alliance is planet targetting another alliance, they might be able to convince their members to get up for a night. But very few will be willing to do this throughout the round. These will be the players that usually already end in the top25, so nothing really changes. Instead of having 25 people who rarely lose roids, we get 25 people who rarely have to recall attacks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Veedeejem!
I wouldn't mind it if on jgp's it shows up how much ticks it is prelaunched.
This has exactly the same outcome as the original suggestion. Either they both improve PA, or neither does.
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Unread 8 May 2008, 10:27   #50
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Re: Remove Prelaunches

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk
If everyone attacks at midnight instead of at 4AM, yes, there will be more defence available. Landing attacks will be harder, defence will become more important. The few that can be arsed to get up in the middle of the night will grow faster. But really, how many people are still willing to get up every night to launch attacks? Sure, when an alliance is planet targetting another alliance, they might be able to convince their members to get up for a night. But very few will be willing to do this throughout the round. These will be the players that usually already end in the top25, so nothing really changes. Instead of having 25 people who rarely lose roids, we get 25 people who rarely have to recall attacks.
So you're suggesting we make the top players even better while crippling most of the universe to play a more defence orriented game compared to the top players that are able to get up at night.
Awesome suggestion guys, will really make planetarion better for the casual players (which in case you haven't noticed is most of the people that play planetarion)

Like removing prelaunch is gonna be the answer to all of pa's problems, it'll just change focuss from one peakmoment to another.

Removing prelaunch will also not change fact that there are double bookings, the incs will just appear earlier... If you're really unlucky as a gal you might even get 8-12 ticks of incoming which is much MUCH better than 2 allies piggying eachother


Seriously though, by all means, remove prelaunch!
We'll see how many players are left in 2-3 rounds then.
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