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Unread 20 May 2007, 09:09   #1
Tietäjä
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The little red flag rising - Finland going interwebnet cencorship

It's a bad joke, really.

It all started with this woman called Susan Kuronen. She was involved in arelationship (the traditional one, starting from the first date onwards) with the Finnish Prime Minister Matti Vanhanen. Once the relationship eventually went tits up, the single mother Kuronen was feeding the media on a huge frenzy regarding the subject. Needless to say, Kuronen and Vanhanen were on the topics for quite a while in the Finnish tabloid scheme. After the tabloids cooled off, Kuronen decided to write a book (in Wikipedia, translated as "The Prime Minister's Bride") on his relationship with Vanhanen. Of course, she included very private material, such as mobile text messages, private moments, and so on. Somewhere during, she had time for some erotic pictures series on a cheap gossip mag. Vanhanen himself reacted coolly, denying commenting on his private life. There were speculations on him being able to sue Kuronen for some of her actions, but Vanhanen didn't want to go to court to further spoon his life in public.

So, this a lot caused an uproar. People reading the tabs with their morning coffee would think aloud what the **** is that woman (I might be using a certain b-word here but I'm uncertain whether the Finnish police would be after my IP should I do so) doing - again. An online address page (which collects addresses for different causes, had one to support Lordi when people were moaning about their selection for Eurovision 2006, et cetera) pleaded "Shut up Kuronen" and collected 25,000 individuals to sign up on the request. At the same time, online discussions regarding her recent incidents were hotting up. As Vanhanen is generally considered a very reliable and respected person in Finland, the public reaction to Kuronen's (attempt, maybe?) to put spots on the PM's reputation received a hot reaction. Not just the address. On a large Finnish internet portal, called Suomi24, the discussions heated up to the point where no words were spared describing what kind of a person Kuronen is.

Now, out of 32 people using a wide variety of selected adjectives and nouns to describe Kuronen as a person on Suomi24 portal discussion boards, the court has received 21 IPs of the posters. Kuronen is insisting on charges being pressed for slander (God/the universe/karma really has a sense of irony) against some of the posters who had evidently used words such as "slut", "bitch", and "whore" to describe Kuronen.

A prominent member of the Finnish court system has already been quoted saying internet discussions need more supervision. I better start being careful with what I post. Especially on Finnish forums. I guess we're about five inches away from going heads on China with the internet.

Dear it's so outrageously ridiculous.

(Kuronen broke 100k hits on Google February 20th, so she's probably at 250k by now).
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Unread 20 May 2007, 11:07   #2
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Re: The little red flag rising - Finland going interwebnet cencorship

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tietäjä
Now, out of 32 people using a wide variety of selected adjectives and nouns to describe Kuronen as a person on Suomi24 portal discussion boards, the court has received 21 IPs of the posters. Kuronen is insisting on charges being pressed for slander (God/the universe/karma really has a sense of irony) against some of the posters who had evidently used words such as "slut", "bitch", and "whore" to describe Kuronen.

A prominent member of the Finnish court system has already been quoted saying internet discussions need more supervision. I better start being careful with what I post. Especially on Finnish forums. I guess we're about five inches away from going heads on China with the internet.

Dear it's so outrageously ridiculous.

(Kuronen broke 100k hits on Google February 20th, so she's probably at 250k by now).
Sir, this woman (like any person) has a right to protect her reputation, which includes her "honour". Calling her a 'slut' or a 'whore' may well be defamation, but as someone who is not in full possession of "the facts" I would not wish to entertain a conclusion one way or the other. Is she particularly promiscuous, does the fact she told the public about her private life make her a 'slut' or a 'whore', for example. In some ways, she may warrant protection but this depends largely on specifics. The medium of the transmission of this potential defamation is largely irrelevant.

Even this forum (which I believe is under UK law) has a duty to remove any defamatory comments from it because if it didn't, it could be sued too. You will have to define 'more supervision' in clearer teams to determine whether this cripples freedom at all.
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Unread 20 May 2007, 11:20   #3
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Re: The little red flag rising - Finland going interwebnet cencorship

Quote:
Originally Posted by lokken
Sir, this woman (like any person) has a right to protect her reputation, which includes her "honour". Calling her a 'slut' or a 'whore' may well be defamation, but as someone who is not in full possession of "the facts" I would not wish to entertain a conclusion one way or the other.
The thing is, a lot of the name-calling goes due to her actions in publicity. Taking into account the circumstances (the fact that she has published private, intimate, exchange of text messages with the PM in a book and in other medias) makes it rather ackward for her to sue anyone over being called a bitch. Albeit, as the law system goes, being a criminal, a moron, or a paedophile is not a reason not to protected by law.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lokken
Even this forum (which I believe is under UK law) has a duty to remove any defamatory comments from it because if it didn't, it could be sued too.
Hardly happens, does it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lokken
You will have to define 'more supervision' in clearer teams to determine whether this cripples freedom at all.
If people start getting sued over "What an attention whore" -comments, the internet discussion is definately going to take a bumpy ride. If you go along on a ride on any given forums, you'll find dozens of "What a ****ing retard George Bush is" -level comments (I bet you'd find a lot on this forum too, there's the famous "enemies of GD" list which probably occasionally finds itself in "what a jerk" -level remarks), you'd wind up sueing a lot of people. If that's what the nation's court system is prepared to go to (supervise any local or abroad internet medium for remarks that involve any identifiable faction using a naughty word refering to any other identifiable faction, I wish them luck, as it's as useful as starting to control who people mock on their lunch dates).

[EDIT]

Quote:
Originally Posted by QazokRouge5
Anna Nicole Smith - for being a whore and not knowing who the father of her baby is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hebdomad
Reid. He's still shit. And I can't believe you shits voted January the winner last month.
Quote:
Originally Posted by furball
Gordon Brown, for being Stalin.
A brief start. Smith a "whore", Reid just "shit", and Brown compared to "Stalin". This is the kind of text that got people's IPs handed out to the court for slander investigations. It's interesting to follow up how many, and which factions, will be sued and if there will be repercussions.

[/EDIT]
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Unread 20 May 2007, 11:45   #4
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Re: The little red flag rising - Finland going interwebnet cencorship

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tietäjä
The thing is, a lot of the name-calling goes due to her actions in publicity. Taking into account the circumstances (the fact that she has published private, intimate, exchange of text messages with the PM in a book and in other medias) makes it rather ackward for her to sue anyone over being called a bitch. Albeit, as the law system goes, being a criminal, a moron, or a paedophile is not a reason not to protected by law.
Yes, because they have things to be criticised for. If she is called an "attentionwhore" (not a whore) or a "bitch", these could be seen to be pretty accurate statements.

Quote:
Hardly happens, does it?
That's because firstly no one takes these forums seriously and secondly I don't think we've had many posts that amount to it.

Quote:
If people start getting sued over "What an attention whore" -comments, the internet discussion is definately going to take a bumpy ride. If you go along on a ride on any given forums, you'll find dozens of "What a ****ing retard George Bush is" -level comments (I bet you'd find a lot on this forum too, there's the famous "enemies of GD" list which probably occasionally finds itself in "what a jerk" -level remarks), you'd wind up sueing a lot of people. If that's what the nation's court system is prepared to go to (supervise any local or abroad internet medium for remarks that involve any identifiable faction using a naughty word refering to any other identifiable faction, I wish them luck, as it's as useful as starting to control who people mock on their lunch dates).
The question is context. There are certain comments which are just plain insults and others which may be directly aimed at her reputation - it's very unlikely that a lot these comments will ever reach the judgment stage, courts realise there is freedom of speech too.

Quote:
A brief start. Smith a "whore", Reid just "shit", and Brown compared to "Stalin". This is the kind of text that got people's IPs handed out to the court for slander investigations. It's interesting to follow up how many, and which factions, will be sued and if there will be repercussions.
None of these are particularly defamatory, although I will profess to be no expert on defamation (I am just working quite instinctively) but I will repeat again that context and being in full possession of the facts is everything. Like you said 'investigations' and 'prosecutions' are two very different things. Normally state prosecutors are the first to go OMG OMG letter of the law then drop everything at the last minute because they know a judge will give them a torrid time.

But I will repeat and clarify myself. To rule out defamation out of turn would be foolish indeed. I doubt the investigations will amount to much myself.
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Unread 20 May 2007, 11:49   #5
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Re: The little red flag rising - Finland going interwebnet cencorship

Quote:
Originally Posted by lokken
But I will repeat and clarify myself. To rule out defamation out of turn would be foolish indeed. I doubt the investigations will amount to much myself.
Indeed. That's why it's sad she's trying even. But I suppose it's "just another Susan Kuronen publicity stunt". Pathetic, though. Edit. The more strange thing is, actually, that major legistlative members are hinting off about "more supervision" in public mediums. Supervising internet is such a vain attempt, unless you go China on it.
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Unread 20 May 2007, 11:57   #6
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Re: The little red flag rising - Finland going interwebnet cencorship

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tietäjä
Indeed. That's why it's sad she's trying even. But I suppose it's "just another Susan Kuronen publicity stunt". Pathetic, though. Edit. The more strange thing is, actually, that major legistlative members are hinting off about "more supervision" in public mediums. Supervising internet is such a vain attempt, unless you go China on it.
Well I think all they are looking for is that for people who run forums to do so responsibly. Which I don't think is too much to ask.
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Unread 20 May 2007, 12:01   #7
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Re: The little red flag rising - Finland going interwebnet cencorship

Quote:
Originally Posted by lokken
Well I think all they are looking for is that for people who run forums to do so responsibly. Which I don't think is too much to ask.
Taking into account how many kinds of different forums the internet contains, that's really a lot to ask.
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Unread 20 May 2007, 12:32   #8
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Re: The little red flag rising - Finland going interwebnet cencorship

http://pirate.planetarion.com/showth...ighlight=yahwe
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Unread 20 May 2007, 12:55   #9
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Re: The little red flag rising - Finland going interwebnet cencorship

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tietäjä
Now, out of 32 people using a wide variety of selected adjectives and nouns to describe Kuronen as a person on Suomi24 portal discussion boards, the court has received 21 IPs of the posters. Kuronen is insisting on charges being pressed for slander
Oh man what a complete bitch.
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Unread 20 May 2007, 13:10   #10
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Re: The little red flag rising - Finland going interwebnet cencorship

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I was just about to link him to that
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Unread 20 May 2007, 17:57   #11
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Re: The little red flag rising - Finland going interwebnet cencorship

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Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
Oh man what a complete bitch.
She's after you any day now.
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Unread 20 May 2007, 18:06   #12
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Re: The little red flag rising - Finland going interwebnet cencorship

This is a great thread.

Mitterrand banned a book pertaining his love life, if I recall correctly. It was released on the internet though. No-one was sent to court as far as I'm aware. Can't these posters take this to the european court of human rights though?

Also, "In May 2007 the Finnish magazine Hymy published a nude pictorial of Kuronen." That'll teach her to seek so much publicity!
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Unread 20 May 2007, 20:56   #13
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Re: The little red flag rising - Finland going interwebnet cencorship

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hebdomad
Also, "In May 2007 the Finnish magazine Hymy published a nude pictorial of Kuronen." That'll teach her to seek so much publicity!
Actually, it won't.

It was intentional (I don't think this is one of the more "brave" pictures). For those who didn't catch it, scroll down a bit, it's the chubby middle-aged woman.

edit. Notice the headline - translating to "Matti is a boring lover" (refering to the prime minister).
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