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Unread 30 Dec 2009, 17:52   #1
MegaNova
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Cluster defence

With the hardcoded alliance and galaxy defence, why dont you keep cluster defence aswell?
If you want to win, you are going to need as much defence as possible. And if you keep cluster defence, newbies or less active players would become more important to the more active players. Maybe those newbies become more active, as they feel/are more important.

And it would bring some extra strategic elements.
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Unread 30 Dec 2009, 17:54   #2
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Re: Cluster defence

That actually sounds fairly sensible. Potential abuse also seems unlikely, the choice between alliance defence and cluster defence seems pretty easy. It'd only affect non-alliance players.
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Unread 30 Dec 2009, 18:14   #3
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Re: Cluster defence

i am pro keeping cluster defence aswell

good old cluster alliances might even come back ?
at least its another field to coop with your neighbours

with takin cluster defence away you donīt allow this strategy
and i donīt think incluster defence was a big issue last round, it was eta8 defence from out of clusters mostly

incluster you would need a lil more cooperation then throwing everyone together in a shared room
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Unread 30 Dec 2009, 19:00   #4
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Re: Cluster defence

Doesnīt matter much if you canīt defend when youīre not in somebodyīs galaxy or alliance anyway. I'd like to see cluster def play a more active role, myself, agree with topic!
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Unread 31 Dec 2009, 11:33   #5
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Re: Cluster defence

Cluster defence is soooooooo pre Round 20.
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Unread 31 Dec 2009, 12:29   #6
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Re: Cluster defence

Quote:
Originally Posted by damo8 View Post
Cluster defence is soooooooo pre Round 20.
And that is a reason to scrap it? Just because you might be afraid other alliances could make better use of it than your bunch of people doesnīt mean youīre in any position to make comments like you just did.
Iīm pretty sure you whined alot to get out of tag/out of gal def hardcoded out of the game, as it was your main opposition benefitting most from really good coordination.
Now people come up with sensible points about why cluster def could provide depth to the game and all you manage to come up with is an utterly crap one-liner?
Pretty sure you can do better.
For the record, I agree with cluster def probably becoming more important (if youīd actually allow it) if you ban "random" def for tagged planets.

Last edited by rUl3r; 31 Dec 2009 at 12:34.
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Unread 31 Dec 2009, 14:37   #7
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Re: Cluster defence

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Originally Posted by damo8 View Post
Cluster defence is soooooooo pre Round 20.
Maybe cluster defence is pre round 20.
But i do know that it was my first introduction to alliances back in round 3. Back in those days they did actually work.

And i do think that if cluster alliances work and alot of new/inexperienced ppl are in it aswell, it would really help them understand the game and become better.
Every proper player will check the bcalc a new guy does with his fleet and help him improve the outcome, what to keep at home and whatnot.
If there is going to be a war between alliances, who is going to stay in the cluster alliance and who isnt?

I know the chances are slim for cluster alliances to work properly. But if one cluster alliance of one cluster works, alliances might adjust their tactic towards it the following round.
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Unread 31 Dec 2009, 14:53   #8
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Re: Cluster defence

As a slight reminder of how good clusters are for community building. At the moment I am still idling, sometimes conversing, with my cluster buddies from round 3. When done right and long enough, clusters can create valueable communities. No need to remember people that the first succesfull alliances in this game started out as cluster alliances.
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Unread 31 Dec 2009, 14:53   #9
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Re: Cluster defence

the first alliance i did found was a cluster alliance, so i absolutely agree with meganova here
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Unread 31 Dec 2009, 15:25   #10
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Re: Cluster defence

Quote:
Originally Posted by damo8 View Post
Cluster defence is soooooooo pre Round 20.
As it's clear by the responses, this wasn't a serious comment at all!

I guess the point i'm trying to make is that i've not seen cluster defence used to any significant impact for some time. So to me, it wouldn't and isn't a major loss to the game.

Obviously, there are people who have seen and used this feature to great effect, but I can't recall anything in my game playing time where this has worked out as a significant and useful impact on the game.

Hope this clears up my previous post.
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Unread 31 Dec 2009, 15:38   #11
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Re: Cluster defence

Quote:
Originally Posted by damo8 View Post
As it's clear by the responses, this wasn't a serious comment at all!

I guess the point i'm trying to make is that i've not seen cluster defence used to any significant impact for some time. So to me, it wouldn't and isn't a major loss to the game.

Obviously, there are people who have seen and used this feature to great effect, but I can't recall anything in my game playing time where this has worked out as a significant and useful impact on the game.

Hope this clears up my previous post.
I agree it has been used very little in the past 10-15 rounds, if at all. I just donīt think itīs a reason to scrap it. Points like possible newbie training have been brought up, and I actually didnīt see them until I read this thread. The cluster def eta bonus (in theory) gives more options how to play this game (ingame and metagame) really. Maybe itīs time to start using it again, instead of scrapping it.
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Unread 31 Dec 2009, 16:30   #12
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Re: Cluster defence

"Hardly anyone uses it, so let's remove it from the game" is exactly the reason why Planetarion became so boring. It lacks choice.

Additionally, this increases the possible pool of contacts for new players which are not yet in an alliance.

So, keep the cluster eta please.
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Unread 31 Dec 2009, 17:13   #13
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Re: Cluster defence

So, everyone in favour of keeping cluster defence eta then?
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Unread 31 Dec 2009, 17:43   #14
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Re: Cluster defence

unless there was a return of the pre PAX cluster alliances (which I doubt) I cant see any use for cluster eta other than trying to get around out of alliance def / tag without the loss of eta.
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Unread 31 Dec 2009, 17:45   #15
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Re: Cluster defence

The only issue is, if its not been used in the last 10+ rounds, then why is there a need to have it.

Maybe we should look at a reason to use it, maybe grant some further rewards for defending in cluster?

I think its more about changing the attitude than the code to be honest.
If the cluster defence gave double XP or something, or you could create a cluster tag, and the winning cluster tag gets some kind of reward, just trying to throw a few ideas out there to change the whole attitude to cluster defence.

If we can find some reasons to use it, then we have an argument to get it re-added to the game.
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Unread 1 Jan 2010, 02:08   #16
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Re: Cluster defence

If it's not being used, why are you so desperate to remove it? This is what Heartless meant (and neither of you seems to have picked up on it, so I'll repeat what he said).

Trying to force the meta-game is a pointless and ultimately self-destructive activity, it has a will of its own. If we look at another example of a game with a lively and decade-old meta-game, Starcraft, you'll see that strategies that were deemed unfeasible 3 years ago are now considered staples of every half-serious player's arsenal, despite there having been zero balancing updates in that same time frame.

The only thing that happens when you try to force your players to play a certain way is that the game becomes stale and boring. If the only way to to well is to sit on a fence and galraid all round, then yeah, all alliances will do that and whoever is best at it will win. But after 5 rounds of doing the same thing, people tend to want to look at alternatives. In round 16 that alternative was XP, in round 24 it was disting, between rounds 22 and 25 it was cov opping, and from round 27 onwards, the alternative was fortress galaxies.

While removing cluster defence might not have any influence on the game this very round, it's limiting the ways in which PA can change 5 rounds from now. This is a very very bad thing and you should not do it.
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Unread 1 Jan 2010, 10:15   #17
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Re: Cluster defence

I set up a cluster alliance last round. We didn't defend that often and it wasn't that active, but our C-alliance managed to (help) defend a few incommings that could have been uncovered otherwise, including some larger incommings. We had the largest non-Asc/App/VsN planet in the universe in it and we helped save him a few times. There was another cluster-alliance in another cluster as well.

The only reason our cluster alliance worked was because it contained only members of the same block and Asc/App were unable to attack all the alliances in the block at the same time - so some alliances had fleets to spare. Cluster alliances facilitate blocking and are actually a BAD thing.
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Unread 1 Jan 2010, 11:20   #18
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Re: Cluster defence

I don't see why blocking is a bad thing unless the blocks are retarded (ie. 7v1), it's always nice to see a fairly even block war (2v2, 3v3 etc)
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Unread 14 Aug 2010, 16:06   #19
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Re: Cluster defence

Sorry to necro, but I was going over old ideas.

I think Cluster Alliances now fail, because the majority of players are in Player Aliances.

As such people will either see def against them, or not to defend thier own alliance.

I doubt there is any way round this, other than a huge influx of players.
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Unread 14 Aug 2010, 17:19   #20
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Re: Cluster defence

So you necro'd a thread to disagree with the idea?
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Unread 14 Aug 2010, 21:26   #21
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Re: Cluster defence

Maybe give an eta advantage to planets who are in the same alliance and cluster?
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Unread 16 Aug 2010, 20:33   #22
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Re: Cluster defence

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrLobster View Post
Sorry to necro, but I was going over old ideas.

I think Cluster Alliances now fail, because the majority of players are in Player Aliances.

As such people will either see def against them, or not to defend thier own alliance.

I doubt there is any way round this, other than a huge influx of players.
I think you are talking crap. But hey, let's keep up with selling uninformed opinions without any reasoning whatsoever.
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