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Unread 14 Jun 2003, 12:47   #51
Leshy
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Quote:
Originally posted by Knight Theamion
anger.ventilation++;
As far as I know, escorting isn't forbidden anywhere in the rules and as such is a valid tactic. Provided that the escorting planets are actual players, of course.
Quote:
Originally posted by Illegal
As I said, whatever they are called now.
They're not called anything as they no longer exist. PA was bought by a different company who have hired two of the original creators to keep the game running. And that company is what you sign the EULA with.
Quote:
And ofcourse they arent sold anywhere. Why would a company sell info to anyone. (Ill belive it when I see it)
You'll believe that SimTech doesn't sell data when you see them not selling data?
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Unread 14 Jun 2003, 12:47   #52
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dave
Top 800 or so R3 .

And yes, its still nothing like the achievment it was, but its still nice to be able to say i got there once.
It no longer comes down to skill alone. Now its about who are smart enough to predict what side will win and why. If you are on the right side in the right alliance, you should be able to make top 20 just by launching once a day without any more effort put into it.
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Unread 14 Jun 2003, 12:48   #53
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Quote:
Originally posted by Leshy
You'll believe that SimTech doesn't sell data when you see them not selling data?
No.
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Unread 14 Jun 2003, 12:49   #54
Leshy
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Quote:
Originally posted by Illegal
No.
Oh well. You have the freedom to believe what you want
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Unread 14 Jun 2003, 12:53   #55
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Quote:
Originally posted by Leshy
Oh well. You have the freedom to believe what you want
I do, so unless you are trying to prove something by being witty and forum active, you can sod off.
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Unread 14 Jun 2003, 12:57   #56
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Quote:
Originally posted by Illegal
I do, so unless I'm trying to prove something by being witty and forum active, I can sod off.
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Unread 14 Jun 2003, 13:00   #57
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You have my sympathy Frucht.

That is the worst reason i have seen for closing a planet. :- /
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Unread 14 Jun 2003, 13:00   #58
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I do not think they mean anything against him, or are accusing him of cheating. However, as has been stated already, correct details are VERY important for stopping multis. By closing a top guy like this, it makes it clear than NO ONE is immune to putting in their info. Next round, even if i had not this round (which i did), I would definitely put in the correct stuff, after watching the TOP planet in the universe get shut down because they were too stupid to enter their phone number.
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Unread 14 Jun 2003, 13:07   #59
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Quote:
Originally posted by Leshy
As far as I know, escorting isn't forbidden anywhere in the rules and as such is a valid tactic. Provided that the escorting planets are actual players, of course.

*cough* lol...
i remember a guy ... named UDK (or something ... thread should still be around here) who used support fleets last round ...
and said he got friends ( m8s at work that support him, as he is the boss)

OFC noone believes that ****!!
but.... what u jsut said... makes it legal!

it seems like PA crew doesnt know where the priorities lie and they it seems they do not know their own rules..
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Unread 14 Jun 2003, 13:10   #60
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When I, personally, look at accounts reported for offences, one of the first things I verify is their sign-up information. This often the best indication of whether an investigation should begin (depending on the evidence involved).

For example, if Planets X & Y are accused of farming, and Planet X is owned by a "John Smith" whereas Planet Y is owned by qweqweqwrqwrqwrqwtwq afsafas, then it's a first indication as to the possibility of planet Y being signed up for the sole use as a farm.

I am not saying it is the ONLY evidence that is used, for those that enjoy jumping on PA Team's head at any opportunity.

The EULA is there to HELP YOU, not just benefit us.
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Unread 14 Jun 2003, 13:10   #61
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Quote:
Originally posted by Draki
said he
Emphasis on this bit?
(switch it round to "he said" if your a grammer-pedant)
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Unread 14 Jun 2003, 13:11   #62
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Quote:
Originally posted by Draki
*cough* lol...
i remember a guy ... named UDK (or something ... thread should still be around here) who used support fleets last round ...
and said he got friends ( m8s at work that support him, as he is the boss)

OFC noone believes that ****!!
but.... what u jsut said... makes it legal!

it seems like PA crew doesnt know where the priorities lie and they it seems they do not know their own rules..
So basicly if Frucht say he was drunk when he signed up and thought the info he gave was correct, then he is home free?
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Unread 14 Jun 2003, 13:20   #63
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Quote:
Originally posted by SYMM
Emphasis on this bit?
(switch it round to "he said" if your a grammer-pedant)
iam not.. just saying there are many ways to interpret things...
same thing with wrong signup informations
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Unread 14 Jun 2003, 13:21   #64
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Ok then, i suggest PA phones up every single person and ask them to say there Login name. and i can guarantee you 50% will either say the wrong Login name or will have a wrong phone number, there is only like 4k people playing the game yet there is over 10k accounts.... suspicious? just maybe
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Unread 14 Jun 2003, 13:23   #65
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Also, to people that keep calling LDK Multies : most of them use internet cafes, hence online at the same time, and sittign next to each other, its not that hard to understand.


VIVA LA LDK!
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Unread 14 Jun 2003, 13:25   #66
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heh

The team is and always has been in a lose:lose situation here. The community complain that we don't close accounts, but when we do, we get criticised, abused and/or insulted if we close the 'wrong person' or do it for the 'wrong reasons'. Now if we've made a mistake we would expect people to do that, but in this case someone is in blatant breach of the user agreement, and however petty it seems, we treat everyone the same. Just because a person is #1 in the universe doesn't mean they are exempt from the rules, but it does mean they are more likely to be found first if they have done something in breach of them. Likewise, just because someone is in a lower down galaxy doesn't exempt them from the rules, but it may mean that they take more looking for. What people don't seem to understand is that we ARE being even handed in this. It just seems that some people don't want us to be...
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Unread 14 Jun 2003, 13:26   #67
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i love you mushroom : )
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Unread 14 Jun 2003, 13:31   #68
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Quote:
Originally posted by Illogical
i love you mushroom : )
I don't quite know how to take that.
You make me feel like you view me as the Mohammed Saeed al-Sahaf of Planetarion.
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Unread 14 Jun 2003, 13:36   #69
Leshy
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Quote:
Originally posted by Draki
OFC noone believes that ****!!
but.... what u jsut said... makes it legal!
Learn to read.

Escort fleets are legal provided the escorting planet is an actual player. Last round, UDK had a bunch of multi planets. He was closed for multiing, not for having fleets escort him.
Quote:
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Unread 14 Jun 2003, 13:41   #70
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Whilst it sucks to get a parking ticket it is still against the law.

Perhaps a more reasonable and community-friendly approach to this would have been to slap Frucht's wrists and ask him to submit his correct details.
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Unread 14 Jun 2003, 13:45   #71
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Re: heh

Quote:
Originally posted by Mushroom
The team is and always has been in a lose:lose situation here. The community complain that we don't close accounts, but when we do, we get criticised, abused and/or insulted if we close the 'wrong person' or do it for the 'wrong reasons'. Now if we've made a mistake we would expect people to do that, but in this case someone is in blatant breach of the user agreement, and however petty it seems, we treat everyone the same. Just because a person is #1 in the universe doesn't mean they are exempt from the rules, but it does mean they are more likely to be found first if they have done something in breach of them. Likewise, just because someone is in a lower down galaxy doesn't exempt them from the rules, but it may mean that they take more looking for. What people don't seem to understand is that we ARE being even handed in this. It just seems that some people don't want us to be...
I find it perfectly ok and complement PA crew on dealing with cheating this round better then before. Still there seems a lot of room for improvement. Especially the autonomous tracking of cheaters by Pa crew/creators. Now almost all are caught on the bais of reports by other players. this generally means it is too late for those players. But it actually isn't that hard to write some software to crack down on cheaters without them even being reported and to prevent the cheating almost as soon as it happens or even before.

Also the the way the rules are being enforced. Clealry a lot of the offending planets that are not closed were playing in r9 already. they will have more likely have normal accountinfo and look more like real people but that doesn't meean they do not own the multi planets attacking with them. Of course those are signed up a round later so they don't look connected but when they attack together and you find the support planets to be a multi you can be damded sure the owner is that other planet attacking with them that already existed in round 9. The owner is certainly not some strange 'fake' friend they cough up at the last moment. So don't only close some freebie accounts but certainly also the planets abusing them.

So we lub the effort but there is a lot of room for improvement left.

hAl
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Unread 14 Jun 2003, 13:45   #72
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Quote:
Originally posted by Leshy
They're not called anything as they no longer exist. PA was bought by a different company who have hired two of the original creators to keep the game running. And that company is what you sign the EULA with.
Iīve seen bread with more brains than you, honest.

Quote:

You'll believe that SimTech doesn't sell data when you see them not selling data?
So you donīt exclude SimTech might sell our data? Thx for giving us the PERFECT argument why we better NOT give our real details.
Try increasing distrust a little further and you wonīt have any players left in a while, given that you close all with wrong details cuz noone iwth half a brain will be willing to provide any real info to you.

Now go and close real cheaters (hey, I managed to get one guy closed by mail to multihunters, something i enver expected to see happening) before you piss off more honourable players who just donīt think you are able (or willing) to protect their privacy.

Bet you guys from PA Team also like TCPA.
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Unread 14 Jun 2003, 13:47   #73
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Quote:
Originally posted by rUl3r
So you donīt exclude SimTech might sell our data? Thx for giving us the PERFECT argument why we better NOT give our real details.
Try increasing distrust a little further and you wonīt have any players left in a while, given that you close all with wrong details cuz noone iwth half a brain will be willing to provide any real info to you.

Now go and close real cheaters (hey, I managed to get one guy closed by mail to multihunters, something i enver expected to see happening) before you piss off more honourable players who just donīt think you are able (or willing) to protect their privacy.

Bet you guys from PA Team also like TCPA.
Erm, you seem to have vastly misinterpreted what Leshy said, to be quite honest.
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Unread 14 Jun 2003, 13:49   #74
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Quote:
Originally posted by Illogical
Also, to people that keep calling LDK Multies : most of them use internet cafes, hence online at the same time, and sittign next to each other, its not that hard to understand.


VIVA LA LDK!
so if we attack them often enough they go bankrupt ?

and how the hell do they escort eachother or are all lithuanian i-net cafés open 24/7 ?
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Unread 14 Jun 2003, 13:51   #75
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Quote:
Originally posted by RealJames
Whilst it sucks to get a parking ticket it is still against the law.

Perhaps a more reasonable and community-friendly approach to this would have been to slap Frucht's wrists and ask him to submit his correct details.
And have everyone doing the same?
You cannot make an exception to one person and deny it to another.
We could have done so and taken his roids and fleets away or something. But it would have had the same moaning.
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Unread 14 Jun 2003, 13:54   #76
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Probably happened on purpose?

SimTech can SAY alot. Itīs a total different thing if you really do it the way you said.
I donīt know SimTech much and i donīt trust them in any way. I canīt get hold of them like i can get hold of a bank (as someone compared singing up to pa iwth creating a bank account). I know some friends (back from r4 that is, i also know them in real life) who signed up but definitly used fake details cuz they just donīt give out their info on the net that fast.

So closing an honourable player for fake details while OBVIOUS farmers/multi/escort ppl stay open just because "you canīt prove it" is just ****ed up. Find yourself some real mutlies to play with before you hassle good players who INVEST TIME in the game. Iīm glad iīm not playing really active, PA is not worth the effort.
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Unread 14 Jun 2003, 13:59   #77
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Quote:
Originally posted by rUl3r


So you donīt exclude SimTech might sell our data? Thx for giving us the PERFECT argument why we better NOT give our real details.
You sir, need to read up on the UK Data Protection Act as the servers are UK based. (Your friend google will be happy to help), for you will find that , in summary

* Personal data CANNOT be sold on without the EXPRESS permission of the person in question (which is not given by agreeing to the EULA)

* There must be reasonable (and by reasonable, so that the chance of data theft/loss is a small as possible) protection of that data, via secure systems, and backups etc.

here's a summary of it for you.

i'll leave the rest of the finding to you
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Unread 14 Jun 2003, 14:00   #78
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Quote:
Originally posted by rUl3r
Probably happened on purpose?

SimTech can SAY alot. Itīs a total different thing if you really do it the way you said.
I donīt know SimTech much and i donīt trust them in any way. I canīt get hold of them like i can get hold of a bank (as someone compared singing up to pa iwth creating a bank account). I know some friends (back from r4 that is, i also know them in real life) who signed up but definitly used fake details cuz they just donīt give out their info on the net that fast.

So closing an honourable player for fake details while OBVIOUS farmers/multi/escort ppl stay open just because "you canīt prove it" is just ****ed up. Find yourself some real mutlies to play with before you hassle good players who INVEST TIME in the game. Iīm glad iīm not playing really active, PA is not worth the effort.
Well we've tried to explain our reasons exactly in this thread, yet some people still think we're out purely to spoil everyone's fun and get everyone. If you don't trust us, and don't think the game's worth it, don't play. Simple as that. We obviously can't change your mind...
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Unread 14 Jun 2003, 14:07   #79
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Quote:
Originally posted by NEWSBOT3
You sir, need to read up on the UK Data Protection Act as the servers are UK based. (Your friend google will be happy to help), for you will find that , in summary

* Personal data CANNOT be sold on without the EXPRESS permission of the person in question (which is not given by agreeing to the EULA)

* There must be reasonable (and by reasonable, so that the chance of data theft/loss is a small as possible) protection of that data, via secure systems, and backups etc.

here's a summary of it for you.

i'll leave the rest of the finding to you

Sure, thatīs all nice to read....
A friend registred some e-mail account at GMX longer time ago. In their customers agreements they state they wonīt give the details away.
Still, they obviously gave his details to AOL as he got some AOL-cdīs later, and there was a slight typo in the adress, the same typo he made in his GMX user details.
Now tell me my details are safe at SimTech.
Dream on, welcome in real life.
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Unread 14 Jun 2003, 14:08   #80
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mushroom
Well we've tried to explain our reasons exactly in this thread, yet some people still think we're out purely to spoil everyone's fun and get everyone. If you don't trust us, and don't think the game's worth it, don't play. Simple as that. We obviously can't change your mind...
Itīs not worth the effort as long as blatant cheaters get away but fair players are closed for less important reasons.
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Unread 14 Jun 2003, 14:08   #81
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i can simply answer that.

We aren't GMX, and that's not proof that they did it. There's no hope if you don't trust anyone. Shops could give credit card numbers away, but they don't do they?


And the thing about blatant cheaters and fair players - as i explained earlier, the entire reason behind closing people with false details is to make cheating harder. But nothing i can say will make you understand this, i can tell.
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Unread 14 Jun 2003, 14:11   #82
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So what am I like the only preson that had to run for the toilet when I saw the log in which frucht claimed never to have cheated before?

Bit off topic, but hey, I almost peed my pants over this
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Unread 14 Jun 2003, 14:12   #83
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i think a lots being lost in the translation here..

as far as i see, he broke the rules of the EULA. It's a deletable offence, he should be deleted...

now if prince was here i'm sure he'd get asked to sumbit his correct details and be given a 1000 roid bonus for time he was closed and couldn't go roiding, but thankfully, he isn't here anymore
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Unread 14 Jun 2003, 14:15   #84
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Re: i can simply answer that.

Quote:
Originally posted by Mushroom
We aren't GMX, and that's not proof that they did it. There's no hope if you don't trust anyone. Shops could give credit card numbers away, but they don't do they?
No proof.. well, itīs quite strange to happen "just by chance", isnīt it?
My point (which you donīt want to see) is, you can TELL us alot, but we have GUARANTEE that you KEEP YOUR PROMISES.
And i certainly donīt trust big companies, yet i trust shady game companies i only got slight contact with on the internet even LESS.

Quote:

And the thing about blatant cheaters and fair players - as i explained earlier, the entire reason behind closing people with false details is to make cheating harder. But nothing i can say will make you understand this, i can tell.
Well, if thatīs the main reason, then check ppl with false detils for REAL cheating, if you find them innocent on that point give them a chance to change their details.
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Unread 14 Jun 2003, 14:16   #85
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Quote:
Originally posted by rUl3r
Sure, thatīs all nice to read....
A friend registred some e-mail account at GMX longer time ago. In their customers agreements they state they wonīt give the details away.
Still, they obviously gave his details to AOL as he got some AOL-cdīs later, and there was a slight typo in the adress, the same typo he made in his GMX user details.
Now tell me my details are safe at SimTech.
Dream on, welcome in real life.
then your friend should be suing instead of just letting it happen...
unless of course, its not in the UK, in which case different laws apply.
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Unread 14 Jun 2003, 14:17   #86
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Quote:
Originally posted by Illegal
As I said, whatever they are called now.

And ofcourse they arent sold anywhere. Why would a company sell info to anyone. (Ill belive it when I see it)
They won't sell the information because it's Illegal, Illegal.
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Unread 14 Jun 2003, 14:17   #87
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cicada
i think a lots being lost in the translation here..

as far as i see, he broke the rules of the EULA. It's a deletable offence, he should be deleted...
We have a winner.
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Unread 14 Jun 2003, 14:21   #88
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Re: Re: i can simply answer that.

Quote:
Originally posted by rUl3r
No proof.. well, itīs quite strange to happen "just by chance", isnīt it?
My point (which you donīt want to see) is, you can TELL us alot, but we have GUARANTEE that you KEEP YOUR PROMISES.
And i certainly donīt trust big companies, yet i trust shady game companies i only got slight contact with on the internet even LESS.
There's no guarantee I won't go around killing everyone with a spoon, but that's no reason to keep me away from spoons.
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Unread 14 Jun 2003, 14:21   #89
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To repeat some arguments

-PA team must not cheaters if there are worse cheaters around. In fact, you shouldn't close one cheater and let another get away. Of course, this means that you should close them all simultaneously.
-Signing up with fake details is completely acceptable because it protects your privacy. Nevermind that not signing up protects your privacy even better.
-If rank #1 planet is cheating, shouldn't mean that he should have any more chance of getting caught.
-Breaking a rule punishable by account deletion is quite okay if people sympathise.
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Unread 14 Jun 2003, 14:21   #90
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Quote:
Originally posted by MrL_JaKiri
They won't sell the information because it's Illegal, Illegal.
So you belive ppl donīt do illegal things?
You also belive in Santa and the Easter Bunny, donīt ya?
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Unread 14 Jun 2003, 14:25   #91
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Quote:
Originally posted by Telest
To repeat some arguments

-PA team must not cheaters if there are worse cheaters around. In fact, you shouldn't close one cheater and let another get away. Of course, this means that you should close them all simultaneously.
They should, but they should start with those that really ruin the game for others (itīs fun being attacking by 4 planets if 3 of them are obviously support planets and probably multies), or, as you said, close them all at the same time.
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Unread 14 Jun 2003, 14:25   #92
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Theamion : alot of net cafes are open 24/7 nnow, to adapt with the modern lifestyle, and if they are near an airport in Lithuanian than definately there is a 24/7 internet cafe

dont prejudge people, one may have done something wrong, dont blame the rest for that problem


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Unread 14 Jun 2003, 14:25   #93
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Quote:
Originally posted by rUl3r
So you belive ppl donīt do illegal things?
You also belive in Santa and the Easter Bunny, donīt ya?
Right, in case you did not notice let me break down your arguement for you so maybe after you realize how retarded it is you will stop posting:

Basically what you are saying is that it is OK for anyone to breach the EULA upon signing up by providing false account information and not have to face punishment for it because PA HQ is going to sell your personal information anyway.
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Unread 14 Jun 2003, 14:30   #94
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Quote:
Originally posted by rUl3r
So you belive ppl donīt do illegal things?
You also belive in Santa and the Easter Bunny, donīt ya?
If they give it out, sue them.

I refer you to my spoon comment.
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Unread 14 Jun 2003, 14:31   #95
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Quote:
Originally posted by ParraCida
Right, in case you did not notice let me break down your arguement for you so maybe after you realize how retarded it is you will stop posting:

Basically what you are saying is that it is OK for anyone to breach the EULA upon signing up by providing false account information and not have to face punishment for it because PA HQ is going to sell your personal information anyway.
Just for your info: I tried to show MrL_JaKiri how stupid his "they wonīt do it cuz itīs forbidden" argument is (we know noone in pa farms cuz itīs illegal, yes we know...).

I understand perfectly why ppl donīt want to share such personal information with companies - cuz they donīt trust īem, if you are so happily believing everything you get told stay happy, just donīt get angry about those who are not as naive as you.

Oh btw, i will stop posting now, but just because RL needs me, got a gig to play this evening. Have fun ppl.
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Unread 14 Jun 2003, 14:32   #96
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Quote:
Originally posted by rUl3r
Just for your info: I tried to show MrL_JaKiri how stupid his "they wonīt do it cuz itīs forbidden" argument is (we know noone in pa farms cuz itīs illegal, yes we know...).
IF THEY GIVE THE INFORMATION OUT

YOU CAN SUE THEM FOR BREACH OF THE DATA PROTECTION ACT

Just as if people cheat and it's proven, they get deleted.

How hard is this concept?
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Unread 14 Jun 2003, 14:34   #97
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Regarding Frucht's discussion with his advocate - there is no legal action that would feasibly take place when the total amount lost is 10 dollars.

Nor is there any legal backing. Nobody was forced to submit their name, as you didnt have to sign up. It seems silly, but upon signup, you agreed to closure if you violated the rules, then violated the rules. Stand by your word.
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Unread 14 Jun 2003, 14:35   #98
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again i will refer to my common sense comment in other threads, it just seems like we have a few jobsworth pateam members who have been given this bit of power to close some accounts, and feel the need to do it religiously, whats this? showing who's boss?

T
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Unread 14 Jun 2003, 14:37   #99
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Quote:
Originally posted by djcomplex
again i will refer to my common sense comment in other threads, it just seems like we have a few jobsworth pateam members who have been given this bit of power to close some accounts, and feel the need to do it religiously, whats this? showing who's boss?
LETS COMPLAIN THAT THEY'RE NOT CLOSING ACCOUNTS!

But boss, they ARE closing accounts!

THEN LETS COMPLAIN THEY'RE CLOSING TOO MANY!
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Unread 14 Jun 2003, 15:09   #100
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Quote:
Originally posted by MrL_JaKiri
IF THEY GIVE THE INFORMATION OUT

YOU CAN SUE THEM FOR BREACH OF THE DATA PROTECTION ACT
is it just me, or is everyone overlooking the fact they have been hacked before.
Why would most people give their real details knowing that they've been breeched in the past.
Ah well.
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