User Name
Password

Go Back   Planetarion Forums > Planetarion Related Forums > Planetarion Discussions

Reply
Thread Tools Display Modes
Unread 18 Jan 2008, 08:38   #1
Kargool
Up The Hatters!
 
Kargool's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Kenilworth Road
Posts: 3,012
Kargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet society
Elitism is killing the game.

So, in my walkabout around the universe, I happen to find a few galaxies each round that have a very strict exiling policy. Last round I was exiled by one, the round before I was being quite more relaxed, still ended up almost top 100, but was still exiled 3 times. Reason, I wasn't logging in on IRC.

While some might say, your own fault, fake nicking bastard etc, I came to think about another problem.

What if I was a new player, wanting to play the game but unable to use mirc, either because I didn't have the know how, or didn't want to use it because I don't play the game that way?

How would I react to being exiled out of every galaxy because I don't login to irc? I mean, there are plenty of other options to contact me, you can contact me through the in game mail system, and it is a star in front of my name if I am online. If i want or is capable to help, I will answer my in game mail. We also know and have seen that there are plenty of other games that work fine with only having the ingame messaging communication or even out of game alliance forums. Games like Travian, Cybernations, TLK and Manager League pop into my head when I think about it.

Now, this is not the usual elitism is bad, you who play elite suck. No, its more, elitism is crap, because the PA team is not able to approach the problem in a way that fits both the people who want to play active, and the people who is playing this more as a social game, where you are open to meet new people and have fun.

How to solve this.

Quite honestly, there is only one approach that will help in my opinion.

Private galaxies and public galaxies.

Why? Because, private galaxies allows the user to be more flexible in regards of who he wants in, he can pick them himself, and he can be comfortable that everyone in his galaxy is actually there to be in his galaxy, and not having any ulterior motives.

Public galaxies, they can be more relaxed, people can come and go if they please, and the galaxies are then capable of letting people be less active, more nubish, and less strict on killing every god damn new player that arrives to the game.


I propose a galaxy system for both too.

Private galaxies. You can NOT exile out of a private galaxy. Which means, if you really don't like your neighbor, tough luck, you wanted to be elite, and now you got stuck with him for the round. An galaxy however MAY exile one person, if he is causing sour grapes.

Public galaxies. You can exile out of your galaxy. If you're an active player and are unable to get life into your galaxy, you should have the chance of getting out. However, the galaxy itself can NOT exile anyone out of the galaxy, no matter how crap they might play. Normal inactivity rules does apply ofc, maybe even a slightly more strict inactivity rule to prevent abuse.
__________________
Planetarion veteran
Kargool is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 18 Jan 2008, 10:03   #2
Kal
Inactive peon
 
Kal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,050
Kal has a brilliant futureKal has a brilliant futureKal has a brilliant futureKal has a brilliant futureKal has a brilliant futureKal has a brilliant futureKal has a brilliant futureKal has a brilliant futureKal has a brilliant futureKal has a brilliant futureKal has a brilliant future
Re: Elitism is killing the game.

how do you stop all the private galaxies form destroying the public ones without having two universes?
__________________
Kal

Round 6-10 NoS member-->NoS junior HC
Round 10.5 FAnG member
Round 11-15 PATeam
Round 17-30 PATeam
Round 31 ???

Check out toastmonster.com for crazy illustrations and art
Kal is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 18 Jan 2008, 10:15   #3
Mzyxptlk
mz.
Alien Invasion Champion, Submarine Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Barts Watersports Adventure Champion
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: Elitism is killing the game.

Like this.
__________________
The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
Mzyxptlk is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 18 Jan 2008, 11:25   #4
jerome
.
 
jerome's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 3,382
jerome contributes so much and asks for so littlejerome contributes so much and asks for so littlejerome contributes so much and asks for so littlejerome contributes so much and asks for so littlejerome contributes so much and asks for so littlejerome contributes so much and asks for so littlejerome contributes so much and asks for so littlejerome contributes so much and asks for so littlejerome contributes so much and asks for so littlejerome contributes so much and asks for so littlejerome contributes so much and asks for so little
Re: Elitism is killing the game.

fully agreeing with kargool and mz.
jerome is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 18 Jan 2008, 11:47   #5
Membrivio
Leader of the Membrivians
Curveball Champion, Sober Santa 2 Champion
 
Membrivio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 412
Membrivio is a splendid one to beholdMembrivio is a splendid one to beholdMembrivio is a splendid one to beholdMembrivio is a splendid one to beholdMembrivio is a splendid one to beholdMembrivio is a splendid one to beholdMembrivio is a splendid one to behold
Re: Elitism is killing the game.

Imagine this:

You are a new player. You don't know shit of how to play this game. You enter a public galaxy which is filled with other newbies who also know shit about the game. This is true as active current players will always value PrivGal > PublicGal and will choose to join PrivGals. Alliances are not around anymore, as all active current players will be in the PrivGals and don't see any reason to run an alliance as they can't def outside of their gal.
Please try to answer the following question:
How the hell will players in Public gals ever enjoy the game as Alliance play will be gone, interaction between experienced and none-experienced players will disappear and these newbies are never guided into game play?

And: the fun of every round for me is that, although being in a buddy pack, that I meet new great people in the game who are fun to have around. So, Kargool, did you in anyway account for the social aspect of the game? Because if you propose PrivGals, that is a really elitarian move. I quote:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kargool
Public galaxies, they can be more relaxed, people can come and go if they please, and the galaxies are then capable of letting people be less active, more nubish, and less strict on killing every god damn new player that arrives to the game.
Another question: would you be able to midround upgrade yourself to a PrivGal with, for instance, the current top10 of the public players?
__________________
R1-5: Unaffiliated / R19: Zik Union
R20-27 & 30-31 Orbit DC/BC/HC (Intelking!)
R29: Rock Member/Intel Officer
R35/36: p3nguins
R37: Evolution
R48: ODDR
R49: CT
[KB] [Mercenaries] [p0ny]

The intelligent man finds almost everything ridiculous, the sensible man hardly anything. (J.W. Goethe)
Membrivio is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 18 Jan 2008, 11:54   #6
Game^
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 531
Game^ is a splendid one to beholdGame^ is a splendid one to beholdGame^ is a splendid one to beholdGame^ is a splendid one to beholdGame^ is a splendid one to beholdGame^ is a splendid one to beholdGame^ is a splendid one to behold
Re: Elitism is killing the game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Membrivio
Imagine this:

You are a new player. You don't know shit of how to play this game. You enter a public galaxy which is filled with other newbies who also know shit about the game. This is true as active current players will always value PrivGal > PublicGal and will choose to join PrivGals. Alliances are not around anymore, as all active current players will be in the PrivGals and don't see any reason to run an alliance as they can't def outside of their gal.
People will stay in alliances, and others will go private gals, I'd actually imagine it would be a pretty even split, especially after the 'novelty' round is over. People in Public galaxies would be far more likely to try and develope a player than in the current BP system of EXILE EXILE EXILE

Quote:
Please try to answer the following question:
How the hell will players in Public gals ever enjoy the game as Alliance play will be gone, interaction between experienced and none-experienced players will disappear and these newbies are never guided into game play?
You must live in some kind of deluded bubble to actually believe this happens currently.
Game^ is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 18 Jan 2008, 11:55   #7
Smudge
For Crowly <3
 
Smudge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Luton, England
Posts: 1,391
Smudge has a reputation beyond reputeSmudge has a reputation beyond reputeSmudge has a reputation beyond reputeSmudge has a reputation beyond reputeSmudge has a reputation beyond reputeSmudge has a reputation beyond reputeSmudge has a reputation beyond reputeSmudge has a reputation beyond reputeSmudge has a reputation beyond reputeSmudge has a reputation beyond reputeSmudge has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Elitism is killing the game.

agree with kargool and mz

mem : public gals will be where alliances are allowed; yes in priv gals there will be alliance wars going on "behind the scenes", but i will bet you my bottom dollar that there will be semi / hardcore people in the public universe, who in turn will teach / train people how to play the game

and no, upgrading midround to a priv gal mid round shouldnt be allowed as it would defy the point of them being private
__________________
[14:53:26] * Keiz`afk has joined #support
[14:53:36] <Keiz`afk> THE SMUDGE CHEERLEADING TEAM HAS ARRIVED
Smudge is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 18 Jan 2008, 12:00   #8
GReaper
The BOFH
 
GReaper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 463
GReaper has a brilliant futureGReaper has a brilliant futureGReaper has a brilliant futureGReaper has a brilliant futureGReaper has a brilliant futureGReaper has a brilliant futureGReaper has a brilliant futureGReaper has a brilliant futureGReaper has a brilliant futureGReaper has a brilliant futureGReaper has a brilliant future
Re: Elitism is killing the game.

I don't see who would deny themselves an alliance tag just to form a private galaxy. If you did allow private galaxies, would anyone bother with a public galaxy? Wouldn't this further imbalance things if private galaxies were allowed with alliances? What would new players do if their public galaxy is now an even juicier target than it used to be? Just because you're less likely to be booted doesn't make it better.

The whole game is geared around the fact that a player who is more active is most likely to win, not joining IRC can cause a problem for the rest of the galaxy which does. GCs usually want galaxies to succeed, booting weaker planets gives the galaxy an opportunity to get a larger and more active planet. I'm sure we've all played in awful galaxies at one point, or possibly even lead one - it is not fun being the easy target of the universe.

Whilst I'm sure we agree to similar problems, I don't think this is the solution. It's been suggested before and there are too many arguments against it to implement it.
GReaper is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 18 Jan 2008, 12:19   #9
Membrivio
Leader of the Membrivians
Curveball Champion, Sober Santa 2 Champion
 
Membrivio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 412
Membrivio is a splendid one to beholdMembrivio is a splendid one to beholdMembrivio is a splendid one to beholdMembrivio is a splendid one to beholdMembrivio is a splendid one to beholdMembrivio is a splendid one to beholdMembrivio is a splendid one to behold
Re: Elitism is killing the game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Game^
You must live in some kind of deluded bubble to actually believe this happens currently.
Well, I think alliances as F-Crew (and Orbit) do just these kind of things. Maybe you should get out of the bubble, m8.

Quote:
Originally Posted by smudge
mem : public gals will be where alliances are allowed; yes in priv gals there will be alliance wars going on "behind the scenes", but i will bet you my bottom dollar that there will be semi / hardcore people in the public universe, who in turn will teach / train people how to play the game
Why would they bother, as they can play in the PrivGal? Can you back this statement up? And if so, the ratio experienced/unexperienced will be totally out of balance, just to take Game's argument.
__________________
R1-5: Unaffiliated / R19: Zik Union
R20-27 & 30-31 Orbit DC/BC/HC (Intelking!)
R29: Rock Member/Intel Officer
R35/36: p3nguins
R37: Evolution
R48: ODDR
R49: CT
[KB] [Mercenaries] [p0ny]

The intelligent man finds almost everything ridiculous, the sensible man hardly anything. (J.W. Goethe)
Membrivio is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 18 Jan 2008, 12:32   #10
Game^
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 531
Game^ is a splendid one to beholdGame^ is a splendid one to beholdGame^ is a splendid one to beholdGame^ is a splendid one to beholdGame^ is a splendid one to beholdGame^ is a splendid one to beholdGame^ is a splendid one to behold
Re: Elitism is killing the game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Membrivio
Well, I think alliances as F-Crew (and Orbit) do just these kind of things. Maybe you should get out of the bubble, m8.
You are refering to alliances, im refering to galaxies, where as Kargool says people go around the houses constantly.
Game^ is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 18 Jan 2008, 12:33   #11
Mzyxptlk
mz.
Alien Invasion Champion, Submarine Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Barts Watersports Adventure Champion
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: Elitism is killing the game.

Your post makes no sense:

Quote:
Originally Posted by GReaper
I don't see who would deny themselves an alliance tag just to form a private galaxy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GReaper
If you did allow private galaxies, would anyone bother with a public galaxy?
"No one would pick a private galaxy if it meant giving up their alliance"
"No one wants a public galaxy"
What's left?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GReaper
Wouldn't this further imbalance things if private galaxies were allowed with alliances?
Rob's idea specifically disallows this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GReaper
GCs usually want galaxies to succeed, booting weaker planets gives the galaxy an opportunity to get a larger and more active planet.
Plenty of GCs keep whoever comes on IRC, small or big, noob or elite. There are exceptions of course, but "boot all but the most active/elite" is not a univeral policy among GCs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GReaper
It's been suggested before and there are too many arguments against it to implement it.
I've yet to see a single valid argument against it. Fire away.
__________________
The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
Mzyxptlk is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 18 Jan 2008, 12:50   #12
Smudge
For Crowly <3
 
Smudge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Luton, England
Posts: 1,391
Smudge has a reputation beyond reputeSmudge has a reputation beyond reputeSmudge has a reputation beyond reputeSmudge has a reputation beyond reputeSmudge has a reputation beyond reputeSmudge has a reputation beyond reputeSmudge has a reputation beyond reputeSmudge has a reputation beyond reputeSmudge has a reputation beyond reputeSmudge has a reputation beyond reputeSmudge has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Elitism is killing the game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Membrivio
Why would they bother, as they can play in the PrivGal? Can you back this statement up? And if so, the ratio experienced/unexperienced will be totally out of balance, just to take Game's argument.
If I could play a full round semi active/hardcore (ie logging in once, maybe twice a day after tick 72) and not be roided to death / kicked around the universe as I'm inactive I totally would. But the fact is with the current setup if I did that there wouldnt be much point in my playing
__________________
[14:53:26] * Keiz`afk has joined #support
[14:53:36] <Keiz`afk> THE SMUDGE CHEERLEADING TEAM HAS ARRIVED
Smudge is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 18 Jan 2008, 13:40   #13
wakey
Hamster
 
wakey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Crewe, England
Posts: 3,606
wakey is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himwakey is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himwakey is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himwakey is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himwakey is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himwakey is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himwakey is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himwakey is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himwakey is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himwakey is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himwakey is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like him
Re: Elitism is killing the game.

Its all well and good looking at not having an alliance as the 'balancing factor' but Rob better than anyone knows this isnt really the case. You are after all not removing your ability to have an alliance BUT your right to -1 defence. . Every other aspect of having an alliance is open to you.

And i'm really not sure losing the -1 defence is that much of an hinderance for the following 2 reasons
  1. Look at the current alliance rankings. Why don't they reflect anything like the pre round predictions. These alliances seem perfectly comfortable sitting outside the official system and relying on their attacking than their defending. As this happens every round it suggests that atleast for some of the round a top player can be perfectly happy relying on OOT and galaxy defence, so will it really make them too much worse off to hand pick a perfect galaxy and forgo their alliance's defence (but still have the attacking support of their alliance)
  2. Asc members have a record of doing pretty well while publically declaring that alliance defence is almost not existent. What would an organised alliance that knew their members would be supported well ingalaxy be able to achieve from an attacking pov

I cant help but feel such a change will actually make the game more elitist and increase the power the top player will have in the game. I think the people it will hinder will be those in the middle ground who are seduced by the idea of private galaxies but dont have the skill or contacts to make it work (the same kind of people who were seduced in r4 to go private only to find their galaxies just got bombarded and players started quitting - and that was with alliance help) and the new and lower players who find their galaxies are full of new and inactive players and the quality level in their alliance has dramatically dropped thus removing the support group to help protect them and improve them. This to me doesn't seem like the kind of lower level you want new players joining as they will be even more likely to get annoyed/bored and quit

Additional

If you want to solve the problem Kargools talking about I think the key is to remove the importance of IRC. The reason IRC is so vital is because the galaxy communication and co-operation tools available are quite frankly shit.

If i'm not on IRC and my galaxy gets incoming I cant report incoming to their alliance (although would need an overhaul of the alliance defence page), i cant see others scans of the incoming easierly or pass on scans ive done, i cant see or tell others what is needed and I cant say what ships have been sent by myself. You can have a makeshift system using the forums and mail but when you have people multiple waves on multiple planets and attacks being pulled and resent things get missed and it gets confusing. The system could be improved to make all these things possible and easier thus making contributing to a galaxy without IRC easier and that would give people alot more leyway imho
__________________
Wakey
PD and Suggestions Moderator
Co-founder of [F-Crew]
The Farnborough Crew
Cos anything else is just an alliance
Join our public channel at #f-crew

Last edited by wakey; 18 Jan 2008 at 13:57.
wakey is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 18 Jan 2008, 13:57   #14
GReaper
The BOFH
 
GReaper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 463
GReaper has a brilliant futureGReaper has a brilliant futureGReaper has a brilliant futureGReaper has a brilliant futureGReaper has a brilliant futureGReaper has a brilliant futureGReaper has a brilliant futureGReaper has a brilliant futureGReaper has a brilliant futureGReaper has a brilliant futureGReaper has a brilliant future
Re: Elitism is killing the game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk
Your post makes no sense:
That's what happens when you're tired and edit your post so much it doesn't resemble anything close to the original.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk
Rob's idea specifically disallows this.
Kargool's didn't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk
I've yet to see a single valid argument against it. Fire away.
The main reason private galaxies were dumped in the first place, newer and inexperienced people get separated from regular players and find it even more difficult to join the game and be part of it. Hence the "would anyone bother with a public galaxy?" question, if private galaxies were so popular that very few people went into a random galaxy then it would cause problems for them.

I'm not saying that the current system works as we'd all like it to be (experienced players introducing new players to the game instead of booting them), but you need to be careful when changing things like where new players are supposed to join.

Last edited by GReaper; 18 Jan 2008 at 17:06.
GReaper is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 18 Jan 2008, 16:34   #15
Game^
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 531
Game^ is a splendid one to beholdGame^ is a splendid one to beholdGame^ is a splendid one to beholdGame^ is a splendid one to beholdGame^ is a splendid one to beholdGame^ is a splendid one to beholdGame^ is a splendid one to behold
Re: Elitism is killing the game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wakey
[list=1][*] Look at the current alliance rankings. Why don't they reflect anything like the pre round predictions. These alliances seem perfectly comfortable sitting outside the official system and relying on their attacking than their defending. As this happens every round it suggests that atleast for some of the round a top player can be perfectly happy relying on OOT and galaxy defence, so will it really make them too much worse off to hand pick a perfect galaxy and forgo their alliance's defence (but still have the attacking support of their alliance)
They dont reflect pre round predictions because its tick 130(?). The difference is you would create two MEANINGFUL rankings, i.e. the galaxy rankings (which most priv gals would go for), and the alliance rankings (which alliance members in public gals would go for). How these two relate to eachother would certainly be interesting. As for top players staying OOT, its true they can stay OOT for a while, however the reason alliances allow it is because they know they will get the score at the end of it, this would not be the case with Rob's idea. So in all honesty I dont see what benefit alliances would get from it, Friendships would play a higher role than 'alliances'.
Game^ is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 18 Jan 2008, 17:32   #16
Cochese
Retired
 
Cochese's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Back Porch Bar
Posts: 2,593
Cochese has a reputation beyond reputeCochese has a reputation beyond reputeCochese has a reputation beyond reputeCochese has a reputation beyond reputeCochese has a reputation beyond reputeCochese has a reputation beyond reputeCochese has a reputation beyond reputeCochese has a reputation beyond reputeCochese has a reputation beyond reputeCochese has a reputation beyond reputeCochese has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Elitism is killing the game.

I fully endorse this idea, and have since Rob's suggestion last year.

This round, I was immediately exiled out of my starting galaxy for not being on irc. I have since landed in a galaxy just outside the t10 that fully understands my reasons for not being uber-active, or on irc often. Damn com-unit doesn't want to work from the public computer center I use, but I did find a web-based system that does just now

I was already set on being exiled around the universe all round for my level of activity, but I guess I got lucky.

In this case, the exception is definetly not the rule--and that's extremely unfortunate.
__________________
I'd rather be fishing.

Utterly useless since r3
Cochese is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 18 Jan 2008, 17:50   #17
wakey
Hamster
 
wakey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Crewe, England
Posts: 3,606
wakey is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himwakey is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himwakey is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himwakey is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himwakey is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himwakey is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himwakey is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himwakey is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himwakey is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himwakey is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like himwakey is an inspiration to us all and we should try to be more like him
Re: Elitism is killing the game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Game^
They dont reflect pre round predictions because its tick 130(?).
Which is my point, alliances dont feel the need to get their members into the ingame alliance at tick 72 as the lack of -1 defence time doesn't hinder their members score.


Quote:
The difference is you would create two MEANINGFUL rankings, i.e. the galaxy rankings (which most priv gals would go for), and the alliance rankings (which alliance members in public gals would go for). How these two relate to eachother would certainly be interesting. As for top players staying OOT, its true they can stay OOT for a while, however the reason alliances allow it is because they know they will get the score at the end of it, this would not be the case with Rob's idea. So in all honesty I dont see what benefit alliances would get from it, Friendships would play a higher role than 'alliances'.
Your talking as if amongst most top alliance players the alliance rankings are meaningful. Infact the reaction on these forums from various high profile people (including rob himself) feel that the alliance rankings are meaningless and the winners of the round aren't and shouldn't be awarded on them. It would probably please these people alot if members of the main alliances passed on the defence bonus so that the winners could be decided 'by committee'
__________________
Wakey
PD and Suggestions Moderator
Co-founder of [F-Crew]
The Farnborough Crew
Cos anything else is just an alliance
Join our public channel at #f-crew
wakey is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 18 Jan 2008, 18:00   #18
Game^
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 531
Game^ is a splendid one to beholdGame^ is a splendid one to beholdGame^ is a splendid one to beholdGame^ is a splendid one to beholdGame^ is a splendid one to beholdGame^ is a splendid one to beholdGame^ is a splendid one to behold
Re: Elitism is killing the game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wakey
Your talking as if amongst most top alliance players the alliance rankings are meaningful.
No I'm saying that most alliance HC find the alliance rankings meaningful.

Quote:
Infact the reaction on these forums from various high profile people (including rob himself) feel that the alliance rankings are meaningless and the winners of the round aren't and shouldn't be awarded on them. It would probably please these people alot if members of the main alliances passed on the defence bonus so that the winners could be decided 'by committee'
They wouldn't be passing on the defence bonus, they would be deciding to play for their galaxy instead.
Game^ is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 18 Jan 2008, 18:07   #19
Monroe
Planetarion Forum Moderator
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,289
Monroe has much to be proud ofMonroe has much to be proud ofMonroe has much to be proud ofMonroe has much to be proud ofMonroe has much to be proud ofMonroe has much to be proud ofMonroe has much to be proud ofMonroe has much to be proud ofMonroe has much to be proud of
Re: Elitism is killing the game.

I really think Kargool missed the point in his own thread. The point is that as a new player success in PA requires IRC activity. If we had a better form of real time communication other then IRC, which is entirely outside the game itself (ie the user has to use something other then the browsers), then new players would be much easier to integrate into galaxies and would be exiled a lot less often. Often I feel one of the biggest hold ups in the growth of PA is in fact the use of IRC as a communication method. In todays world (as opposed to 1999 when the game started) IRC is really not used much by the average gamer. If PA stopped being IRC centric and instead was opened to other chat methods that are easier and far more commonly used I think we would see a much higher interest in the game, and a much higher rate of player retention.
__________________
Romans 10:9-10

#strategy
Monroe is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 18 Jan 2008, 18:12   #20
Membrivio
Leader of the Membrivians
Curveball Champion, Sober Santa 2 Champion
 
Membrivio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 412
Membrivio is a splendid one to beholdMembrivio is a splendid one to beholdMembrivio is a splendid one to beholdMembrivio is a splendid one to beholdMembrivio is a splendid one to beholdMembrivio is a splendid one to beholdMembrivio is a splendid one to behold
Re: Elitism is killing the game.

I agree with Wakey's first post from "cant help but feel such a change" to the end of his post. He makes some very clear points there. I would like to see some posts on that, trying to falsify his stance (paragraphs 4/5/6 of his post) instead of taking him up on some peripheral introductory (no offence) statements at the beginning.
__________________
R1-5: Unaffiliated / R19: Zik Union
R20-27 & 30-31 Orbit DC/BC/HC (Intelking!)
R29: Rock Member/Intel Officer
R35/36: p3nguins
R37: Evolution
R48: ODDR
R49: CT
[KB] [Mercenaries] [p0ny]

The intelligent man finds almost everything ridiculous, the sensible man hardly anything. (J.W. Goethe)

Last edited by Membrivio; 18 Jan 2008 at 18:47.
Membrivio is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 18 Jan 2008, 18:44   #21
Achilles
Poblacht na hÉireann
 
Achilles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,167
Achilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAchilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAchilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAchilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAchilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAchilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAchilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAchilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAchilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAchilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAchilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus would
Re: Elitism is killing the game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wakey
Which is my point, alliances dont feel the need to get their members into the ingame alliance at tick 72 as the lack of -1 defence time doesn't hinder their members score.
I would strongly disagree with this. The reason "top tier" alliances don't include members in their tag early has very little to do with the welfare of the individual members. It is much more representative of the now commonly held belief amongst alliance HC's that disguising the strength of their alliance early on offers various tactical advantages. It is also the case that not defending early allows for a more even growth across the entire alliance. Meaning a more balanced alliance with more balanced fleets across a broader range of players in the mid-game. This is especially true when you consider that it is all but impossible to cover early defcalls with a single fleet and that most defences would require ships that would otherwise be used for roiding. It is clear then that there is more score potential in roid-racing at the beginning, both for the average player and the alliance as a whole.
Achilles is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 18 Jan 2008, 18:56   #22
furball
Registered Awesome Person
 
furball's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 5,676
furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: Elitism is killing the game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wakey
[*] Asc members have a record of doing pretty well while publically declaring that alliance defence is almost not existent. What would an organised alliance that knew their members would be supported well ingalaxy be able to achieve from an attacking pov
Actually, I believe that it's only official alliance defence that doesn't exist. Members are free to organise their own defence.


(note that I know sod-all about Asc and have never been a member, etc etc etc)


Quote:
Originally Posted by Wakey
If you want to solve the problem Kargools talking about I think the key is to remove the importance of IRC. The reason IRC is so vital is because the galaxy communication and co-operation tools available are quite frankly shit.
In a game where time is of the essence, people want to be able to speak in real-time. IRC is the easiest way of facilitiating that.
__________________
Finally free!
furball is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 18 Jan 2008, 19:13   #23
GReaper
The BOFH
 
GReaper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 463
GReaper has a brilliant futureGReaper has a brilliant futureGReaper has a brilliant futureGReaper has a brilliant futureGReaper has a brilliant futureGReaper has a brilliant futureGReaper has a brilliant futureGReaper has a brilliant futureGReaper has a brilliant futureGReaper has a brilliant futureGReaper has a brilliant future
Re: Elitism is killing the game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monroe
Often I feel one of the biggest hold ups in the growth of PA is in fact the use of IRC as a communication method. In todays world (as opposed to 1999 when the game started) IRC is really not used much by the average gamer. If PA stopped being IRC centric and instead was opened to other chat methods that are easier and far more commonly used I think we would see a much higher interest in the game, and a much higher rate of player retention.
Given that communication in galaxies and alliances is vital to their success, it should be an essential part of the game. Currently the forums are poor and awkward to use and there isn't much else offered apart from a Java chat client.

Even registering a channel is more complex than it should be. Having to get 3 users to register a channel and wait for approval isn't my idea of making the game as quick and simple as possible. I'm sure someone wants to insist that this isn't a problem at all, and I know it isn't. It just isn't as good as it should be.
GReaper is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 18 Jan 2008, 21:27   #24
Mzyxptlk
mz.
Alien Invasion Champion, Submarine Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Barts Watersports Adventure Champion
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: Elitism is killing the game.

Everything Ascendancy members say is a plot to kill Planetarion, spread the word!
___

Making people choose between private galaxies without alliance and public galaxies with alliance is basically splitting the game in two. I will be pointing out several benefits to this; I don't intend these benefits as beneficial only for private galaxies, or only for public galaxies, but instead as good for the game as a whole. Giving people a chance to choose between random galaxies without alliance and public galaxies with alliance means people will make that choice, weighing the pros and cons of both options. For some, the first will be more attractive, for some, the latter.

I'm sure many will realise that playing in a private galaxy grants the players in it a lot of control over their playing environment. They can devise a strategy that will benefit both themselves and the galaxy as a whole. This works much better for people who know what galaxy they'll be in than for people who don't. They know who they'll be playing with, thus be able to anticipate how much time they'll need to spend, increasing the chance they'll play at all (benefit 1). Furthermore they won't need to exile in hopes of a better galaxy - most of us aren't so lucky as to end up in a galaxy with 12 active players.

The only reason a great many people have for still playing is the fact that they have friends they know through the game. Allowing people to be completely free in who they share a galaxy with (this also applies to the support planet/alliance limit discussion) encourages them to invite people they like, both from within the game and from the outside (benefit 2).


On the other hand, playing in a public galaxy has distinct advantages as well. For one, when your galaxy is being raided, each player can turn to his or her alliance for defence, making incomings much easier to cover. Furthermore, people in alliances will probably be more likely to want to teach people how to play, increasing the chance randoms get the help they need (benefit 3). And since the support planet rule is removed, alliances have an additional incentive to recruit people: more people is more fleets is more score (benefit 4)!

Random galaxies increase in strenght as the round progresses. Private galaxies (which will almost certainly be stronger early on) will start off strong, and then (when value becomes more and more important), slowly (and relatively) weaken. (Compare Xan vs. Zik.) This of course is encouraging for new players, who see themselves increase in strength, again increasing the chance they'll stay (benefit 5), while seasoned players won't need this morale boost so much.


As for the different goals for the two types of play, alliances will probably compete amongst themselves over who gets #1 in the alliance rankings. There is little point for them in waging war with private galaxies, as it doesn't change their own rank as much as waging war with an alliance. If an alliance hits another alliance, it has double the effect as when it hits a galaxy: one loses 1k roids, the other gains 1k, which makes a 2k change. Private galaxies will be doing the same.

How this is a good thing? First off, it'll iron out some of the differences in strength between alliances and private galaxies. Alliances of course have quite a bit more firepower available to them, so it would very easily be possible for an alliance to hit a galaxy for a couple of nights (I will explain why this is a good thing a bit further down). On the other hand, player quality (insofar it's possible to summarize a players quality in 1 quantifier) will (on average) probably be higher among private galaxy players, meaning they'll have an easier time in handling it.

But then there's nothing stopping a private galaxy from helping an alliance for a while, nor the other way around, and there shouldn't be. This just adds an additional layer of politics, helping to add complexity for those of us operating at this level (HCs mostly, but top players also influence it), while not making it harder for the people who just joined, as per "easy to learn, hard to master". It's a standard many (if not all) games should strive to maintain, from chess to counter-strike, from solitaire to volleyball, and Planetarion is no different (benefit 7).

By now I've listed 7 ways in which this change will positively influence Planetarion, and can only think of one negative thing: if many of the better players play in private galaxies, how can a new player ever get into them? The answer is not entirely obvious: they don't have to. It'll be hard for people to go from an existing alliance to an existing private galaxy, true. But there's nothing stopping an alliance player from starting a new private galaxy. Over time, they'll start mixing in with the existing crows. Keep in mind, galaxy channels are not the only place where people meet. There's the forums, there's #planetarion, there's #transcendancy, there's community channels, there's former alliance channels... There's plenty of places for new players to meet old players. It will probably still be harder to join this elite group, but then that's pretty much the definition of the word "elite".



Quote:
Originally Posted by wakey
If you want to solve the problem Kargools talking about I think the key is to remove the importance of IRC. The reason IRC is so vital is because the galaxy communication and co-operation tools available are quite frankly shit.
You're right. What are your thoughts on replacements for IRC, mostly for the community aspect of alliances (and galaxies, if this idea goes through), which for the most part has to take place on a many-to-many real-time communication medium?



P.S.
Sorry for the length people, here's a summary: this is a good idea, you should support it!
__________________
The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.

Last edited by Mzyxptlk; 19 Jan 2008 at 02:17.
Mzyxptlk is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 18 Jan 2008, 21:31   #25
lokken
BlueTuba
 
lokken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 6,339
lokken has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.lokken has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.lokken has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.lokken has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.lokken has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.lokken has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.lokken has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.lokken has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.lokken has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.lokken has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.lokken has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: Elitism is killing the game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kargool
While some might say, your own fault, fake nicking bastard etc, I came to think about another problem.
Well if you're fake nicking you're being elitist in another sense, so I think fighting fire with fire is perfectly legitimate in that scenario.
__________________
"Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life."
lokken is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 18 Jan 2008, 23:02   #26
Monroe
Planetarion Forum Moderator
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,289
Monroe has much to be proud ofMonroe has much to be proud ofMonroe has much to be proud ofMonroe has much to be proud ofMonroe has much to be proud ofMonroe has much to be proud ofMonroe has much to be proud ofMonroe has much to be proud ofMonroe has much to be proud of
Re: Elitism is killing the game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk
You're right. What are your thoughts on replacements for IRC, mostly for the community aspect of alliances (and galaxies, if this idea goes through), which for the most part has to take place on a many-to-many real-time communication medium?
I know this was pointed at Wakey, but I'm going to respond as well. Clearly the game still needs a real time communication solution. In my opinion this should either be embedded in the game directly as a fully functional IRC, with easy channel creation and joins and exits, or it should be through the chat features in various instant messaging solutions. As part of a port to myspace or facebook those programs also have tools that could be used for communication mediums. Another option is to put things like incoming reporting tools directly into the game, but I really don't think that is a good solution. A large part of the reason people continue to play is to chat with their friends about non PA related things, as well as PA related things. Any communication system that is going to replace IRC has too allow for casual conversation as well as game related tasks.
__________________
Romans 10:9-10

#strategy
Monroe is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 18 Jan 2008, 23:51   #27
Mzyxptlk
mz.
Alien Invasion Champion, Submarine Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Barts Watersports Adventure Champion
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: Elitism is killing the game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monroe
I know this was pointed at Wakey, but I'm going to respond as well. Clearly the game still needs a real time communication solution. In my opinion this should either be embedded in the game directly as a fully functional IRC, with easy channel creation and joins and exits, or it should be through the chat features in various instant messaging solutions. As part of a port to myspace or facebook those programs also have tools that could be used for communication mediums. Another option is to put things like incoming reporting tools directly into the game, but I really don't think that is a good solution. A large part of the reason people continue to play is to chat with their friends about non PA related things, as well as PA related things. Any communication system that is going to replace IRC has too allow for casual conversation as well as game related tasks.
The thing is that I've never seen a system that could do all of that (except IRC, obviously), and that I think that coding such a system is probably outside of the scope of what PA team can do/wants to do.
__________________
The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
Mzyxptlk is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 19 Jan 2008, 00:23   #28
Monroe
Planetarion Forum Moderator
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,289
Monroe has much to be proud ofMonroe has much to be proud ofMonroe has much to be proud ofMonroe has much to be proud ofMonroe has much to be proud ofMonroe has much to be proud ofMonroe has much to be proud ofMonroe has much to be proud ofMonroe has much to be proud of
Re: Elitism is killing the game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk
The thing is that I've never seen a system that could do all of that (except IRC, obviously), and that I think that coding such a system is probably outside of the scope of what PA team can do/wants to do.
I agree this is not something that PA would want to try and build themselves, but I believe there has to be something out there that would work that could be integrated.
__________________
Romans 10:9-10

#strategy
Monroe is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 19 Jan 2008, 08:05   #29
jt25man
Victim of Marriage
 
jt25man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: NW Indiana
Posts: 784
jt25man has much to be proud ofjt25man has much to be proud ofjt25man has much to be proud ofjt25man has much to be proud ofjt25man has much to be proud ofjt25man has much to be proud ofjt25man has much to be proud ofjt25man has much to be proud ofjt25man has much to be proud ofjt25man has much to be proud of
Re: Elitism is killing the game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wakey
I cant help but feel such a change will actually make the game more elitist and increase the power the top player will have in the game. I think the people it will hinder will be those in the middle ground who are seduced by the idea of private galaxies but dont have the skill or contacts to make it work...and the new and lower players who find their galaxies are full of new and inactive players and the quality level in their alliance has dramatically dropped thus removing the support group to help protect them and improve them. This to me doesn't seem like the kind of lower level you want new players joining as they will be even more likely to get annoyed/bored and quit
I actually agree with wakey on this, if Elitism is killing the game, why should we allow Private galaxies which will only serve to help the Elites more, and the social and new players will get crapped on because they'll be randomly placed together in galaxies that will essentially just become picking grounds for the Private galaxies.

My suggestion before was to just split the universe into the private galaxies and the non-privates so that the privates could stomp on each other, and everyone else would have a better chance at being allowed to learn the game, or be social and still have a good round. I know this would never happen, but getting rid of the buddy packs and having everyone be in totally random galaxies I always thought was a good idea to at least cut down on having the same people in the same buddy packs winning every round.

I do also agree that the in-game controls for messaging, forums, and reporting need to be updated. I've suggested before that the Defense page for Alliances should be set up similar to the galaxy status page, showing who's got incoming, and who's defend them, and being automatic (instead of the current format of having to post it yourself). Then the alliances that actually do defend each other wouldn't have to worry about whether or not the galaxy mates of there alliance members will actually report an incoming, whether no one in there gal was online, they forgot, or they didn't care.
__________________
You mean there's life outside the internet...oh man I'm screwed.

Last edited by jt25man; 19 Jan 2008 at 08:10.
jt25man is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 19 Jan 2008, 11:40   #30
furball
Registered Awesome Person
 
furball's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 5,676
furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.furball has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: Elitism is killing the game.

Because at its current rate of decline, this game is ****ed.
__________________
Finally free!
furball is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 19 Jan 2008, 12:04   #31
Ave
Registered User
 
Ave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 936
Ave is a glorious beacon of lightAve is a glorious beacon of lightAve is a glorious beacon of lightAve is a glorious beacon of lightAve is a glorious beacon of lightAve is a glorious beacon of light
Re: Elitism is killing the game.

I dont think random galaxies would be just farms, most likely they would receive some unorganized incoming, but real waves would be aimed at other galaxies, since u can't afford to throw fleets in waste when u battle. (Expecting the galaxies would fight eachothers from their superiority.)

In other hand if u grow the size of random galaxies, it will just make there more valid targets, which might increase the amount of incoming or force people to hit them organized. But if the battles are alliance vs alliance, the random galaxies most likely gets spared. Also there will be always some vets to join random to give guidance.

I think the galaxy should be a place where u have the closest people around you, like a family. So I wouldnt want any random enemies along there to spy. Either you co-operate with the galaxy or fly out. I wouldnt keep that too horrible.
__________________
If the opponent resists, CaRnage there will be!
Ave is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 19 Jan 2008, 15:43   #32
Gerbie2
Alive and kicking
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Kingdom of the Netherlands
Posts: 220
Gerbie2 is a name known to allGerbie2 is a name known to allGerbie2 is a name known to allGerbie2 is a name known to allGerbie2 is a name known to allGerbie2 is a name known to all
Re: Elitism is killing the game.

Hmm. This will cost me money. I usually go random. And I can afford a few extra credits. If you want ppl to pay for their random galmates: make these random galaxies, where nobody can be exiled.

I don't dislike the idea though. The way it is now, clearly is not working.
Gerbie2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 19 Jan 2008, 19:05   #33
Mzyxptlk
mz.
Alien Invasion Champion, Submarine Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Barts Watersports Adventure Champion
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: Elitism is killing the game.

Who mentioned anything about paying? Why would it cost you money? Or more than it already does? What the hell are you on about?
__________________
The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
Mzyxptlk is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 19 Jan 2008, 19:15   #34
MaVeRiXX
PornStar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 96
MaVeRiXX is infamous around these parts
Re: Elitism is killing the game.

I so Agree with Monroe...who use IRC nowadays?! Ye only us cyberNerds, out the 20 people i can name up only 1 who is using IRC...and that person would be me. Think people...how many people u know in ur real life is using IRC??

What this game needs is to evole with modern communication tools..that means communication tools which are USER FRIENDLY. The most important part of this game is communication imo...with no communication there will be no alliances, teamwork in gals, BG's, etc etc...so why PA dont make it easier to communicate by using other tools??

Sometimes the Answer is easier than you ever thought...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monroe
I know this was pointed at Wakey, but I'm going to respond as well. Clearly the game still needs a real time communication solution. In my opinion this should either be embedded in the game directly as a fully functional IRC, with easy channel creation and joins and exits, or it should be through the chat features in various instant messaging solutions. As part of a port to myspace or facebook those programs also have tools that could be used for communication mediums. Another option is to put things like incoming reporting tools directly into the game, but I really don't think that is a good solution. A large part of the reason people continue to play is to chat with their friends about non PA related things, as well as PA related things. Any communication system that is going to replace IRC has too allow for casual conversation as well as game related tasks.
__________________
'Oops i did it again..'

Soaring where Angels fear to Fly
MaVeRiXX is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 19 Jan 2008, 19:17   #35
Mzyxptlk
mz.
Alien Invasion Champion, Submarine Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Barts Watersports Adventure Champion
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: Elitism is killing the game.

You too fail to name one such communication system. You're also ignoring any communication that is not directly and immediately connected to PA.
__________________
The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
Mzyxptlk is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 19 Jan 2008, 19:35   #36
Kargool
Up The Hatters!
 
Kargool's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Kenilworth Road
Posts: 3,012
Kargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet societyKargool is a pillar of this Internet society
Re: Elitism is killing the game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jt25man
I actually agree with wakey on this, if Elitism is killing the game, why should we allow Private galaxies which will only serve to help the Elites more, and the social and new players will get crapped on because they'll be randomly placed together in galaxies that will essentially just become picking grounds for the Private galaxies.

My suggestion before was to just split the universe into the private galaxies and the non-privates so that the privates could stomp on each other, and everyone else would have a better chance at being allowed to learn the game, or be social and still have a good round. I know this would never happen, but getting rid of the buddy packs and having everyone be in totally random galaxies I always thought was a good idea to at least cut down on having the same people in the same buddy packs winning every round.

I do also agree that the in-game controls for messaging, forums, and reporting need to be updated. I've suggested before that the Defense page for Alliances should be set up similar to the galaxy status page, showing who's got incoming, and who's defend them, and being automatic (instead of the current format of having to post it yourself). Then the alliances that actually do defend each other wouldn't have to worry about whether or not the galaxy mates of there alliance members will actually report an incoming, whether no one in there gal was online, they forgot, or they didn't care.

First of all, you are taking a few things for granted. First of all, saying that random galaxies will be preyed upon by private galaxies might be to some extent correct, however, if someone in the private galaxies would want to gain score/xp by attacking, they would have to attack other private galaxies, plus at some stage, they want to prevent other private gals from winning and other big planets from winning. Ultimately they will have to attack other private gals to achive any big gain in score/win.
__________________
Planetarion veteran
Kargool is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 20 Jan 2008, 05:21   #37
jt25man
Victim of Marriage
 
jt25man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: NW Indiana
Posts: 784
jt25man has much to be proud ofjt25man has much to be proud ofjt25man has much to be proud ofjt25man has much to be proud ofjt25man has much to be proud ofjt25man has much to be proud ofjt25man has much to be proud ofjt25man has much to be proud ofjt25man has much to be proud ofjt25man has much to be proud of
Re: Elitism is killing the game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kargool
First of all, you are taking a few things for granted. First of all, saying that random galaxies will be preyed upon by private galaxies might be to some extent correct, however, if someone in the private galaxies would want to gain score/xp by attacking, they would have to attack other private galaxies, plus at some stage, they want to prevent other private gals from winning and other big planets from winning. Ultimately they will have to attack other private gals to achive any big gain in score/win.
While this is true, the private galaxies are still going to have a better chance at winning the round if they're all buddies that work well together, def each other, and this will make it harder for non-elites to be able to be in a winning galaxy. Yes, it has been pointed out that some will still go with the randoms to train up people, and sure you can argue that a non-private galaxy could still win, there's still a better playing field if you don't allow private galaxies and remove the buddy packs.
__________________
You mean there's life outside the internet...oh man I'm screwed.
jt25man is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 20 Jan 2008, 11:42   #38
Mzyxptlk
mz.
Alien Invasion Champion, Submarine Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Barts Watersports Adventure Champion
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: Elitism is killing the game.

Read my post, I address your point there.
__________________
The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
Mzyxptlk is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 20 Jan 2008, 15:39   #39
Gerbie2
Alive and kicking
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Kingdom of the Netherlands
Posts: 220
Gerbie2 is a name known to allGerbie2 is a name known to allGerbie2 is a name known to allGerbie2 is a name known to allGerbie2 is a name known to allGerbie2 is a name known to all
Re: Elitism is killing the game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kargool
... First of all, saying that random galaxies will be preyed upon by private galaxies might be to some extent correct, however, if someone in the private galaxies would want to gain score/xp by attacking, they would have to attack other private galaxies, plus at some stage, they want to prevent other private gals from winning and other big planets from winning. Ultimately they will have to attack other private gals to achive any big gain in score/win.
You already asume that private galaxies will be the big winners. I'm not convinced. Galaxy sizes can be set to balance between random and private galaxies. If alliance defence would only be allowed to random galaxies, this would also make a major difference. I don't think you can win the round in a private galaxy. No single galaxy can stop an alliance from taking a top player down. Private galaxies will have to work together with alliances or other galaxies. Also cluster defence could play a major role. It would be interesting at least.
Gerbie2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 20 Jan 2008, 16:03   #40
Achilles
Poblacht na hÉireann
 
Achilles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,167
Achilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAchilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAchilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAchilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAchilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAchilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAchilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAchilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAchilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAchilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAchilles spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus would
Re: Elitism is killing the game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerbie
It would be interesting at least.
qft
Achilles is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 06:58.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2002 - 2018